Women:

There are some wonderful pictures of pregnant women in this long-running thread in Fetish and Sexuality Central:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1008611

Oggbashan, thank you for the link.

Moonlight and Roses,

To all, here are some nice, non-nude videos of pregnant women. The longest is less than 4 minutes:

Dancing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbdmG2fNJI

Belly Dancing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRIktA7qo8M

And two not dancing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAPd7Gd7A80

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9LdFvKHot8

Moonlight and Roses,

About one year ago I wrote how I felt there were many more best picture Oscar winners where the stories were about men than where the stories were about women. As of the last Oscars there have been 89 best picture awards and it seems to me that in 12 (13%) the stories had been primarily about women, in 15 (17%) the stories were about mixed groups or mixed couples and in 62 (70%) the stories had been primarily about men. Also the last best picture where the story was primarily about a woman was “Million Dollar Baby,” 13 years ago. Since then there has been ten such movies where the stories had primarily been about men. Last year, of the nine nominees, two were about women or a woman, one was about a couple and 6 were about men.

This year there is good news, at least for me. Based on my reading about the films out of the nine nominees, 3 are primarily about a woman or women, 3 are primarily about a mixed couple and 3 are primarily about men. Here are the names of the nominees and my determinations as to whether they are primarily about women, couples or men. If you think I may not be correct in that let me know.

Lady Bird, female
The Shape of Water, female
Three Billboards Outside Ebbing Missouri, female
Get Out, couple
Phantom Thread, couple
The Post, couple
Call Me by Your Name, male
Darkest Hour, male
Dunkirk, male

Moonlight and Roses,

Earlier I wrote that females are of the sex that can generally give birth. Because of that women menstruate. The following video (approximately 3 minutes) shows “How Women Have Lived With Their Periods Since 1900.” Written in the caption below the video is “I know many women who have experienced the same intense period shame that I did growing up. Even though more than half of the US’s population is female, the topic of menstruation is still often seen as taboo.” I feel what that quote describes is a shame. Here is the link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYzNm-tDFc.

Moonlight and Roses,

MoonlightandRoses said:

the topic of menstruation is still often seen as taboo.

Click to expand...

Not only that, but male legislators have weird ideas about what constitutes a "luxury" when it comes to things like sanitary napkins and tampons. Which is why we pay sales tax on these items, when other things related to health, like bandages and adult diapers, are tax-free in many states. I don't think that women consider them "luxuries."

Athalia said:

Not only that, but male legislators have weird ideas about what constitutes a "luxury" when it comes to things like sanitary napkins and tampons. Which is why we pay sales tax on these items, when other things related to health, like bandages and adult diapers, are tax-free in many states. I don't think that women consider them "luxuries."

Click to expand...

There has been a world wide campaign to take sales (or other) taxes off sanitary products. It is beginning to have an impact in the UK and EU.

New question here: In the context of sex scenes, how far does the pain scale go for female characters? How far does it go for males?

Generally I see women being brutalized sexually much worse than men. Is the male body that fragile? The penis can’t handle a few twists, slaps or smacks? Or do we imagine, do we insist, that the female body will endure pain and even orgasm because of it? I suspect the answer is murky. But culturally accepted misogyny is usually one of the culprits tainting our view.

Athalia, thank you for your response to my post.

Charmolypi a very good question (a good question is one that causes me to think). I don’t have enough information to say whether, in erotica, women are more brutalized than men, but I do feel that much of mainstream culture is from the man’s point of view. This is in regard to movies and popular songs. Also, in many of these movies and even songs the man is the more active character. This may have something to do with what you see.

Moonlight and Roses,

Following up on an earlier post on menstruation here is one (approximately 2 minutes) entitled “Periods Through History:”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1LOuRY5IyY

Moonlight and Roses,

At the end of January and the beginning of February I did two posts dealing with the subject of menstruation. Lili Murphy-Johnson is an artist who has a collection of menstruation related jewelry. Some are red beads sewn onto clothing such that the beads look, at least at first glance, like blood. Here is a link to pictures of her collection: https://www.lili-mj.com/graduate-collection.

Moonlight and Roses,

Continuing on with the topic of menstruation here is a link to a series of photographs by Emma Arvida Rystrom entitled "There Will Be Blood and it will flow from vaginas.” As this title suggests these are photographs showing women who are menstruating and in every case menstrual blood or what appears to be menstrual blood is shown. In most cases the women are clothed, in one case a woman is in a bathtub. I like these photographs and feel that they are artistically done in that they are well composed. There are many photographs on the internet showing all of a nude woman’s body including their vulvas and anus. I am not opposed to such pictures and like looking at those that are done well, but I would like there to be more such pictures showing women menstruating and with tampon strings. After all that is the situation for young women during a large part of their lives. Here is the link to the pictures: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kwn34w/there-will-be-blood.

Moonlight and Roses,

I got some fair criticism for the literary merit of this story. There is a huge chunk of 'holy fuck i need to get this finished for the comp' information dump that i really should have foreshadowed.

What disturbed me though were the multiple pm's i received which were fairly abusive about my references to menstruation and ritual. Some were quite hostile.

https://www.literotica.com/s/blooded for reference not self promotion. Deals with primitive wedding ritual involving couple hunting on a 'blood moon' when she has her period. From some reading of anthropological studies relating to rites associated with menstruation, my imagined tale was pretty tame. We havent always shunned it as a taboo.

Rollinbones said:

What disturbed me though were the multiple pm's i received which were fairly abusive about my references to menstruation and ritual. Some were quite hostile.

... Deals with primitive wedding ritual involving couple hunting on a 'blood moon' when she has her period. From some reading of anthropological studies relating to rites associated with menstruation, my imagined tale was pretty tame. We havent always shunned it as a taboo.

Click to expand...

Hmmm. I need to remember this when I post my current work in progress. I've got several sex magick scenes where menstrual blood features - as you say, anthropologically not always a taboo. More a twentieth century male fear, I suspect (never fazed me any).

electricblue66 said:

Hmmm. I need to remember this when I post my current work in progress. I've got several sex magick scenes where menstrual blood features - as you say, anthropologically not always a taboo. More a twentieth century male fear, I suspect (never fazed me any).

Click to expand...

I'm surprised at the reaction. Maybe it has something to do with the Romance category, but then I'd think it would reflect in the score.

My longest story up (actually several chapters in one chunk) centers in part around the female protagonist's period, and the magical power of her menses. It was very well-accepted in I/T, but there's no ritual and it isn't especially explicit. Maybe that's the difference.

Boys have to choose to become men

I just finished reading a story here that had as a theme the idea that boys have to choose to become men. It does not happen automatically, it has to be a conscious decision. It struck me as very profound due to some recent events in my life involving my brother.

It seems to me that many guys never do choose to grow up. I know several in their 50s who haven't changed much at all since they were 20. They might be married, have kids, better jobs, but their tastes, attitudes, habits, and lifestyles are largely unchanged.

On the other hand (and the reason I'm posting it on this thread) every girl I ever knew has sort of been forced to become a women. They've had responsibilities thrust on them that they could not avoid or escape. Ok, I know one exception, a girl in her late 30s whose husband does absolutely everything for her and asks nothing of her. But I expect the day will come when even she is forced to step up.

What do you think? Is maturity really a choice for boys and a requirement for girls? Am I misinterpreting my own experience or ignoring something crucial? Does anyone else have a different take?

LoquiSordidaAdMe said:

What do you think? Is maturity really a choice for boys and a requirement for girls? Am I misinterpreting my own experience or ignoring something crucial? Does anyone else have a different take?

Click to expand...

Men can remain children longer.

I know of several marriages that broke down when kids came along, and the wives got sick and tired of two toddlers in nappies and the third in a suit.

LoquiSordidaAdMe said:

I just finished reading a story here that had as a theme the idea that boys have to choose to become men. It does not happen automatically, it has to be a conscious decision. It struck me as very profound due to some recent events in my life involving my brother.

It seems to me that many guys never do choose to grow up. I know several in their 50s who haven't changed much at all since they were 20. They might be married, have kids, better jobs, but their tastes, attitudes, habits, and lifestyles are largely unchanged.

On the other hand (and the reason I'm posting it on this thread) every girl I ever knew has sort of been forced to become a women. They've had responsibilities thrust on them that they could not avoid or escape. Ok, I know one exception, a girl in her late 30s whose husband does absolutely everything for her and asks nothing of her. But I expect the day will come when even she is forced to step up.

What do you think? Is maturity really a choice for boys and a requirement for girls? Am I misinterpreting my own experience or ignoring something crucial? Does anyone else have a different take?

Click to expand...

I know plenty of women who have not grown up. Some even did some grown up things, like had children, but chose not to raise the children. They gave them to someone else to raise.

I do think that men often have an easier time if they choose not to grow up because they always seem to find some woman to take care of them. I don't think too many men are willing to hook up with a woman who chooses not to grow up, unless it's just for sex.

NotWise said:

I'm surprised at the reaction. Maybe it has something to do with the Romance category, but then I'd think it would reflect in the score.

Click to expand...

As part of a story I wrote some years back, my protagonists fucked on a sex-friendly nude beach while she was on the rag, and afterwards went to the ocean to wash the blood off. The reactions they got as they paraded past the other beachgoers with their genitalia covered with menses was part of the story.

https://www.literotica.com/s/a-very-private-beach-ch-05

The story's rating was 4.51, about in the middle of ranges for the whole series. I just went back to see what the comments were. The menstrual thing exceed one commentator's "squick factor" but others were very supportive.

Laurel just published my first woman-centric story. I least I think it would qualify that way. It is
Tamsin of Sky Village. So far it's getting little attention and the acceptance is so-so.

Rollin I was interested in your comment “We haven’t always shunned it [menstruation] as a taboo." I found an article which, as I remember stated that there is more equality between the sexes in societies where menstruation is not a taboo, but I cannot find it now. Do you know of any cases where menstruation is not a taboo, either in the past or in current cultures.

Jehoram, One of the reasons I posted the comments about menstruation is because I feel in our culture there is shaming of it. I also feel that the people who posted the links I went to also feel that way. While your story may treat menstruation in a positive way, which I applaud, I feel that the word you used to show that the woman was menstruating is one that can encourage that shaming. Besides the term is incorrect.

Loqui Sordida Ad Me, I like hearing from you and at first I thought your comment had to do with menstruation, but now I think it is a general question as to whether women’s tastes, attitudes, habits and lifestyles change, but men’s don’t. I don’t know the answer to that, but it is an interesting idea although it seems that responsibilities can be thrust on persons of either sex.

I have written that most best picture Oscar winners were movies about men and that the last best picture winner about a woman was Million Dollar Baby in 2004. Well it appears that this year’s winner, The Shape of Water is about a woman.

Also dealing with the topic of women is the news that Mattel is putting out a series of “Sheroes” and Inspiring Women Barbies. See here: https://barbie.mattel.com/en-us/about/role-models.html.

Moonlight and Roses,

MoonlightandRoses said:

[Loqui Sordida Ad Me, I like hearing from you and at first I thought your comment had to do with menstruation, but now I think it is a general question as to whether women’s tastes, attitudes, habits and lifestyles change, but men’s don’t. I don’t know the answer to that, but it is an interesting idea although it seems that responsibilities can be thrust on persons of either sex.

Click to expand...

I wonder if menstruation might not have a lot to do with maturation. Every girl has to learn to think ahead, to plan and prepare for an unpleasant situation, or else deal with messy and embarrassing consequences. It happens every single month, and girls have to learn to take responsibility for it. They don't have a choice.

This never happens to boys. There is no consistently male experience I can think of that teaches boys to be responsible.

MoonlightandRoses said:

Rollin I was interested in your comment “We haven’t always shunned it [menstruation] as a taboo." I found an article which, as I remember stated that there is more equality between the sexes in societies where menstruation is not a taboo, but I cannot find it now. Do you know of any cases where menstruation is not a taboo, either in the past or in current cultures.

Click to expand...

I'll butt in on this question. I've done some reading on historical social attitudes toward menstruation in the name of research for a couple different stories.

Information on social attitudes about menstruation is hard to come by, and the information available is often non-specific and highly interpretable. I suspect the state of the information is related more to current and recent attitudes toward menstruation (it's icky so modern historians and anthropologists tiptoe around the subject) than it is about the attitudes of past cultures.

In some cultures the question may not really have much meaning. In ancient Greece, for instance, men and women lived segregated lives. It's largely the attitude of the men that have been recorded. We actually know relatively little about the women or what they thought.

One belief I've seen attributed to the Greeks (and I don't know how authentic it is) is that mensus is the stuff that life is made from. The reasoning is that if you can stop it's regular flow, then the woman becomes pregnant. That would seem to place it in a sacred category.

A cultural belief that's been attributed to Native Americans (and which I think may have been specifically Cherokee) is that the period is a sacred time. Women who are actively bleeding resided together in a special house.

Some interpreters could see this as the women being shunned, but that overlooks the sacred character of the time. I've also read a reported quotation that the decisions and insights made by women in the period house were critical to the tribe's well being.

The Keres-speaking group of SW American natives have a matriarchal culture. This doesn't mean that women run everything. It does mean that women are the head of their families, that men gain their social standing through the women in their family, and that the women own their homes and maybe the farm fields as well. There is an historical Christian influence on their culture, but its hard for me to believe that in their original cultural the women in their period would be shunned or that the period would be considered taboo.

Attitudes in European culture are even hard to pin down. Some historians like to glean a lot from Church directives, but the Church may have had even less real influence on people's behaviours then than they do now (witness, for instance the explosive expansion of syphilis after it's apparent introduction to Europe in the early 1490's. In a societies where travel was difficult and sex was officially discouraged, it expanded from Naples to Moscow by 1500). Aside from the Church's view, most of what we know is about the nobility, and their beliefs could be very different from those of common people.

What I see historically is that until fairly recent times there wasn't any very practical way to avoid being exposed to bodily wastes. As a result, attitudes toward them were rather matter-of-fact. Our social attitudes toward wastes changed with a better understanding of public health and the development of sanitary sewers. I suspect that change in attitudes may also apply to mensus and that the "ick" attitude that a lot of people have now did not prevail 300 years ago.

In one account I read, women in England (possibly renaissance) really did nothing to stop their flow. They wore extra layers so it wouldn't stain their expensive outer clothes but if they went out, they would leave a trail behind them. They may have stayed in for practical reasons (e.g. don't go visit a friend lest you stain their expensive carpet), but it doesn't really seem like they had a very taboo attitude toward it.

The Church of England 1662 book of Common Prayer was a matter of serious contention (and still can be!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Common_Prayer

It includes the Churching of Women after childbirth, and until that service was completed the woman could not receive communion. That is a relic of earlier ritual that excluded women from communion if they were menstruating. However, as the earlier ritual assumed that attending communion once a year was sufficient, it was not an onerous condition.

In some parishes, a woman who was menstruating was not allowed into the main body of the church. She could attend in a side chapel and observe the elevation of the Host by a 'squint' - a hole in the dividing wall that allowed the altar to be seen. This was a relic of earlier (pre-16th Century) i.e. Catholic practices before Henry VIII. They did not even allow a complete marriage service in church. Much of the ceremony was conducted 'at the church door'. Chaucer's Wife of Bath had husbands 'at church door'.

Why the Catholic Church and later the Church of England had the ritual for excluding women who were menstruating or had given birth is unclear. It could even have been a pagan tradition predating Christianity.

PS. The 1928 version of the Book of Common Prayer has an alternative part for the marriage service. In the 1662 version the bride has to promise 'to obey' her husband. In the 1928 version the bride can choose to say exactly the same words as the bridegroom and not 'obey'.

The 1928 version was NOT approved by the House of Commons. Its use is a matter of choice for each congregation.

Loqui Soprdida Ad Me, your comment that “Every girl has to learn to think ahead, to plan and prepare . . . and girls have to learn to take responsibility for it” makes sense. The closest thing I can think of for boys is growing a beard, but that is not anything like beginning to menstruate.

Wise, thank you for your interesting comment. I agree that getting such information is difficult and for the reasons you gave. It seems to me from what you wrote that it is possible that in our current culture menstruation, even though it is becoming more out in the open, is more a taboo than in the past, at least of “Western” culture.

I am glad of the interest that has been shown in this subject.

Moonlight and Roses,