So, the notion that armed guards will prevent shootings.

I have posted studies refuting this point about UK homicides in the past. Those who make this argument are usually seizing on published reports of an increase in a single year, in a single geographic region, news of which was posted without context on pro-gun sites. Overall, the UK gun ban has meant a provable reduction in homicides almost every year since it was implemented (after, iirc, a rise in the first year or two).

Nobody is saying it will wipe all crime off the map. The only reason for you to continue trying to make that bizarre point is if you are aware that your primary one--that gun bans do not reduce homicides--is wrong. The argument is a simple one: does fewer guns in circulation mean fewer deaths. The answer, over and over again, has been yes.

As to your second question: Gun-related suicides dropped precipitously, all others stayed the same (that is, did not increase to take over the ones that would have used guns). Gun-related suicides accounted for a significant enough portion of overall suicides that removing the guns, brought the overall rate down by a large percentage--I think the number is 74%, but can't recall right now.
Facts don't matter. The fact that there are fourteen times as many crimes classed as "violent" in the UK compared to the US doesn't matter. The limp dick brigade will just carry on repeating the same tired bullshit ad infinitum. It's why I pretty much abandoned gun threads unless I'm really bored.
 
I thought that was in reference to other methods of suicide.

If the suicide rates didn't change then why do the left wing gun control advocate tout that little fact? "Reduced gun suicides by 80%!!! SOUNDS REALLY GOOD! bullshit law did not actually effect how many people kill themselves -Gubbmint"

Slow down. You're wrong.

Other rates did not change--meaning, did not decrease or increase. If X was the suicide rate before the buyback, the rate after the buyback was X - [gun-related suicides].
 
I thought that was in reference to other methods of suicide.

If the suicide rates didn't change then why do the left wing gun control advocate tout that little fact? "Reduced gun suicides by 80%!!! SOUNDS REALLY GOOD! bullshit law did not actually effect how many people kill themselves -Gubbmint"

:confused:

it was

the rates of other methods of suicide didn't change - so we can kind of guess their numbers remained fairly constant, ergo no more people opted to die by these other rates

the numbers of suicides by gun fell by 80 or whatever percent, so quite a drastic reduction in the number of suicides there.

soooooooooo - overall, suicide rates have to have fallen. across ALL methods, this fall will not be 80 odd percent.

seems to me that if someone's determined to top themselves, they'll manage it one way or another - but it saves a lot of lives by making access to guns a whole lot harder.

it also seems to me that if someone really wished to end their life, there should be a planned, legal, protected, clean, pain-free, far less traumatic (for suicide and family) method to use - assisted suicide.
 
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:confused:

it was

the rates of other methods of suicide didn't change - so we can kind of guess their numbers remained fairly constant, ergo no more people opted to die by these other rates

the numbers of suicides by gun fell by 80 whatever percent, so quite a drastic reduction in the number of suicides there.

soooooooooo - overall, suicide rates have to have fallen. across ALL methods, this fall will not be 80 odd percent.

seems to me that if someone's determined to top themselves, they'll manage it one way or another - but it saves a lot of lives by making access to guns a whole lot harder.

it also seems to me that if someone really wished to end their life, there should be a planned, legal, protected, clean, pain-free, far less traumatic (for suicide and family) method to use - assisted suicide.


So 80% of gun suicides happen simply because the gun is present? I had no idea owning a gun would cause such deep depression.

I agree with you about the assisted suicide, but lets be real that's almost entirely for those being left behind not the suicidal person, I highly doubt the guy suck starting a 12ga feels anything when the hammer comes down.

Without a gun now these poor fucks are stuck with poison, slit wrist/thighs and hanging....all far more painful and traumatic than a GSW. Why do the gun control advocates hate suicidal people so much??
 
So 80% of gun suicides happen simply because the gun is present? I had no idea owning a gun would cause such deep depression.

I agree with you about the assisted suicide, but lets be real that's almost entirely for those being left behind not the suicidal person, I highly doubt the guy suck starting a 12ga feels anything when the hammer comes down.

Without a gun now these poor fucks are stuck with poison, slit wrist/thighs and hanging....all far more painful and traumatic than a GSW. Why do the gun control advocates hate suicidal people so much??
lol right bro lol lol hahaha pot.
 
lol right bro lol lol hahaha pot.

Never gonna take my guuuuuuuuuuuuuunz....never gonna HAPPEN.....I got autos, silencers and pump actions...not a fucking thing you will ever do about iiiiiiiiit.
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High cap mags.....I got a 2 duffle bags and a foot locker full....

Glock on the hip and a sig in the ice box...1911 by the shitter....P90 next to the bed and the MPFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE is so lovely by the couch... M4 in the garage.

But none compare to the mossy moss.....by the front door....Iiiiiiii looooove youuuuuuuuu.

Time to roll a fatty :cool:
 
Never gonna take my guuuuuuuuuuuuuunz....never gonna HAPPEN.....I got autos, silencers and pump actions...not a fucking thing you will ever do about iiiiiiiiit.


High cap mags.....I got a 2 duffle bags and a foot locker full....

Glock on the hip and a sig in the ice box...1911 by the shitter....P90 next to the bed and the MPFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE is so lovely by the couch... M4 in the garage.

But none compare to the mossy moss.....by the front door....Iiiiiiii looooove youuuuuuuuu.

Time to roll a fatty :cool:

It must be terrible to live your life so scared. You have my sympathy.
 
It must be terrible to live your life so scared. You have my sympathy.

Scared? I like toy's = scared? Man dumping a 50 round mag full auto style into cars/appliance/furniture is fun...shooting hogs with a silencer so they can't tell where the fuck death is coming from? Even more fun....Bacon, I haz it. :cool:

You are going to have to reach MUCH further into that bucket of shit to grab a hold of the greasy turd you are trying for.
 
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Scared? I like toy's = scared?

You are going to have to reach MUCH further into that bucket of shit to grab a hold of the greasy turd you are trying for.

look on the bright side

when - if - you choose to top yourself you have plenty of options that are fast and messy. *cue clean-up crew*
 
look on the bright side

when - if - you choose to top yourself you have plenty of options that are fast and messy. *cue clean-up crew*

Oh I know....just looking all these bad mother fuckers laying around my place makes me super sad....HAHAHAHA only b/c I don't have enough spare ammo to go shoot some shit up right this second. :cool:
 
Oh I know....just looking all these bad mother fuckers laying around my place makes me super sad....HAHAHAHA only b/c I don't have enough spare ammo to go shoot some shit up right this second. :cool:

not suggesting their presence makes you sad (not in the emotional-spectrum way, at least), simply that should you develop a depressive disorder, or a heartbreak, or get really really fed up with your life, then you have all different guns to choose from.

which would you choose, and why?
 
Looks like it boils down to the zoloft users are afraid to be around guns. They'd off themselves. :cool:
 
not suggesting their presence makes you sad (not in the emotional-spectrum way, at least), simply that should you develop a depressive disorder, or a heartbreak, or get really really fed up with your life, then you have all different guns to choose from.

which would you choose, and why?

It could happen....unlikely but it could...

I wouldn't use a gun, if I wanted to off myself I would go with seppuku
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But guns? I would eat a .45 from the 1911...mouth full of water.

Looks like it boils down to the zoloft users are afraid to be around guns. They'd off themselves. :cool:

For cereal....they should get some better anti depressants.
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One way to interpret it--and I haven't checked to see if this is the case--is that when someone who is suicidal uses a gun, that person succeeds in killing him or herself more often than with other tools/methods.

Makes sense. I guess we'd have to know if the number of attempts changed as well. But in either case I'm not sure of the relevance; are we just talking about a way of ensuring that suicidal people don't succeed? That seems to me, like the larger question of violence, to be an issue of mental health care, societal safety nets, reporting of threats/risks, etc, etc.
 
Facts don't matter. The fact that there are fourteen times as many crimes classed as "violent" in the UK compared to the US doesn't matter. The limp dick brigade will just carry on repeating the same tired bullshit ad infinitum. It's why I pretty much abandoned gun threads unless I'm really bored.

Can you link me to something showing those different definitions? I keep hearing this but haven't seen the details.
 
lol right bro lol lol hahaha pot.

It's too bad that you choose to respond this way to him. He's right; by the time someone gets to where they actually take the step to end their own life, we as a society have failed them in a gazillion ways already. Taking away a tool that's ideally suited for the job means they're stuck with other, more painful, less certain methods. There's a kind of cold and unempathetic calculus in that.

I agree with Chippy. We should put in place some sort of legal, sanctioned, painless way for people to end their own lives if that's what they choose to do.
 
Can you link me to something showing those different definitions? I keep hearing this but haven't seen the details.

Some guy posted a link in rebuttal to the utter bullshit article Ish was peddling as fact a while back. Can't be arsed going looking, but I'll give you an example. If a ship's captain takes a vessel out of port in bad weather against the wishes of the crew, that's classed as a violent crime against the person. One of the more ridiculous ones that stuck in my head.
 
It's too bad that you choose to respond this way to him. He's right; by the time someone gets to where they actually take the step to end their own life, we as a society have failed them in a gazillion ways already. Taking away a tool that's ideally suited for the job means they're stuck with other, more painful, less certain methods. There's a kind of cold and unempathetic calculus in that.

He does not care...he just want's to lock step with his buddies so he looks cool.
cartoon%20clown%20beating%20drum.gif

ban....ban....ban...BAN...ban....ban...ban...BAN...ban....ban...

WAIT!!! Not a gun issue?
cartoon%20clown%20beating%20drum.gif

Regulate....educate.....regulate...educate.....regulate...educate...works on everything but guns despite it's working fantastically right here in the us...THAT issue needs some more failed prohibition!!

I agree with Chippy. We should put in place some sort of legal, sanctioned, painless way for people to end their own lives if that's what they choose to do.

34871073.jpg
 
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Some guy posted a link in rebuttal to the utter bullshit article Ish was peddling as fact a while back. Can't be arsed going looking, but I'll give you an example. If a ship's captain takes a vessel out of port in bad weather against the wishes of the crew, that's classed as a violent crime against the person. One of the more ridiculous ones that stuck in my head.
That's utterly absurd. I wonder what it says about the attitude of your government, though. It seems as though for such a concept to exist, you have to have some serious nanny-state thinking going on. How do the numbers stack up if you consider only actual violent crimes? My friend from London who lives here now told me that when he went back home and people asked him if he felt safe here, what with all our gun-toting, he replied that he felt safer here because we don't have the culture of bar fights and chav shit that you have there. Just one man's experience, I know (and fwiw, he's as anti-gun as you are).

I said "painless."
 
That's utterly absurd. I wonder what it says about the attitude of your government, though. It seems as though for such a concept to exist, you have to have some serious nanny-state thinking going on. How do the numbers stack up if you consider only actual violent crimes? My friend from London who lives here now told me that when he went back home and people asked him if he felt safe here, what with all our gun-toting, he replied that he felt safer here because we don't have the culture of bar fights and chav shit that you have there. Just one man's experience, I know (and fwiw, he's as anti-gun as you are).

That particular example goes back to at least the eighteenth century, hardly nanny state times. The problem is that our laws reach back centuries in some cases and just have never been repealed. As for the culture of bar fights, that depends where you drink. A boozer in the middle of a sink estate in East London is a far different animal from a country pub in Hampshire.
 
That particular example goes back to at least the eighteenth century, hardly nanny state times. The problem is that our laws reach back centuries in some cases and just have never been repealed. As for the culture of bar fights, that depends where you drink. A boozer in the middle of a sink estate in East London is a far different animal from a country pub in Hampshire.

And they're still basing stats on those antiquated laws? That's kinda silly.

Well, for sure. I could go get myself killed in a bar here, too. He was referring to the chav culture generally, I think. I'm not sure.

Btw, did you see my post to you about Derrick Bird? I find it somewhat telling that he was using a double-barreled shotgun and a .22 rifle. Take away the rifle and make the shotty a flintlock and you have what you're always advocating. Nothing but a smoothbore flintlock...
 
Scared? I like toy's = scared? Man dumping a 50 round mag full auto style into cars/appliance/furniture is fun...shooting hogs with a silencer so they can't tell where the fuck death is coming from? Even more fun....Bacon, I haz it. :cool:

You are going to have to reach MUCH further into that bucket of shit to grab a hold of the greasy turd you are trying for.

nothing better then taking an old refrigerator out and shooting the damn thing full of holes.

the hard part is getting it back into the house so your mother doesn't notice. ahh to good old days.

boar hunting at night is the best. squeal piggy squeal!
 
It's too bad that you choose to respond this way to him. He's right; by the time someone gets to where they actually take the step to end their own life, we as a society have failed them in a gazillion ways already. Taking away a tool that's ideally suited for the job means they're stuck with other, more painful, less certain methods. There's a kind of cold and unempathetic calculus in that.

I agree with Chippy. We should put in place some sort of legal, sanctioned, painless way for people to end their own lives if that's what they choose to do.

Well, not necessarily. I doubt that all suicides are really "planned out". Don't you think that someone can have a really shitty day, come home and get drunk, and just say "Fuck it, things aren't going to get better, there's a gun right there, I'll show them!"? If the gun wasn't easily accessible, and the method of death more complicated, maybe they'd just sleep it off and live to see another day. I'm not saying that it would prevent all suicides, but surely enough to be significant.
 
Well, not necessarily. I doubt that all suicides are really "planned out". Don't you think that someone can have a really shitty day, come home and get drunk, and just say "Fuck it, things aren't going to get better, there's a gun right there, I'll show them!"? If the gun wasn't easily accessible, and the method of death more complicated, maybe they'd just sleep it off and live to see another day. I'm not saying that it would prevent all suicides, but surely enough to be significant.

Significant enough to force people to be violated by violent offenders while they wait 1/2 a fuckin' hr for the cops to show up?
 
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