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Credentials

My Erotic Tale said:
I aint sure about that but it sounds so much like a margarita and a gal...I'll take two <grin>
Click to expand...
there ya go drinking that wild liquor agen..


Samuel Clemens put it: 'Where she was, there was Eden. 'Omar phrased it: '- thou beside me in the
wilderness, ah wilderness were paradise enow.' Browning termed it: 'Summum Bonum'. All were
asserting the same great truth, which is for me:
Heaven is where Margrethe is.


Job: A Comedy of Justice
:p
 
My Erotic Tale said:
I totally agree with this...

I
Then who do you listen to when five people tell you what is wrong with your poem, 4 that know a bit about literature from experience and reading or the one LIT MAJOR <with the credentials> I find here (an amature site...not professional) there are a lot of people over bearing and way to willing to tell some one what is wrong with their poetry (not as lessons) but as a character trait? any how the one with credentials obviously has the winning vote. So who among us has this right.
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I suppose by putting one's poetry on display gives everyone who cares to, the right to make a critique. As for qualifications to make a critique worth listening to, there aren't any, other than looking at the quality of work someone produces. However, good poets and good artists don't necessary make good critics but by observing them one can learn something.

If you ask me who do I listen to and you haven't but you've guessed it, I'm going to tell you, it's 1201. Why? Because his work, despite his self deprecation about the quality of his work, is the most original and at its best, by far the best poetry on this site. I've found his comments and critiques to be pertinent and to the point and even when I've wanted to tell him to 'fuck off' I've been sensible enough to realise he has an insight that he knows he has but refuses to acknowledge.

To change tack. Can someone tell me where or what Coventry, Heinen is?
 
bogusbrig said:
To change tack. Can someone tell me where or what Coventry, Heinen is?
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Whether or not someone's art is good does not necessarily make them a helpful or tactful critic, and that's the point I try to make. Some people would care more to be right than to be helpful.

Robert Heinlein is a science fiction author. Coventry a place where one of his protagonists chooses to go when he breaks the law where he lives. He'd rather not stay in the "perfect society" where violence is not tolerated at all, even in self defense or against insult. He takes his chances in Coventry. Coventry came to be through a few stories of his, but is basically the remnants of a theocracy that's pretty much degenerated into some level of anarchy and "every man for himself."

Heinlein is a fan of anarchy in that it allows freedom, and not so much a fan of civilization when it loses all touch of what human beings are or a standard of manners. Part of his ideal is the frontier, that place where the most discontented go and make into their own image without the interference of a government.
 
Academic credentials mean very little when it comes to writing poetry, and not necessarily that much more when it comes to commenting on it.

The knowledge that should come with the credentials help. Having read great poetry, understanding what makes it great. Wanting to learn is as important. The driving force. Respect for the language is the only fundamental requirement.

Putting more emphasis on who says or writes something (a poem or a critique) than on what is said is not a good sign. By itself, without the things I mentioned above, an academic credential means less than nothing. Given enough time in the right school, a trained monkey could be a Lit Major. It would be an inevitability.
 
Lauren Hynde said:
Given enough time in the right school, a trained monkey could be a Lit Major. It would be an inevitability.
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That sounds like me, though I used to work with rats in Skinner boxes, so you picked the wrong species for the analogy. ;)

I assume we are talking here about credentials at the university level. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in psychology.

I did, however, take a number of English courses as an undergraduate and have occasionally taken other university-level classes in English over the years. I just looked through my various transcripts, and it turns out I have taken the equivalent of 55 quarter credits in college level English courses. These are roughly evenly divided between literature and writing courses. Looking at the requirements for a major in English literature at my local university, I've pretty much got them covered (55 total credits in the major, all the specific course requirements met with equivalents). So although I don't have the diploma, I have the equivalent of a Bachelor of Arts degree in English.

Does that mean anything? Of course not.

I can write poetry because I can write.

I can read poetry because I can read.

I can write criticism about poetry because I have opinions and write them down.

Note that none of this says anything about whether I do any of these things well. My poetry sucks. My reading, while getting better (practice is helping), is still pretty lame. My critical skills probably also suck, but they are helping me with learning something about the other two (reading and writing). I try to comment on people's poems as much for my own understanding as for the person whose work I am commenting upon.

Poems necessarily mean different things to different people. This can lead to differences in judgment about the quality of a poem. Brig (I'll pick on him, since he'll just be pugnacious back) thinks Yeats is old-fashioned sentimental glop. I like Yeats, in part because he sometimes is old-fashioned sentimental glop. Part of my personality is pretty gloppy (rhymes with sloppy). So is Yeats a good poet or a bad poet?

Depends on the reader.
 
If one looks at the biographical sketches in the back of an anthology like "Best American Poetry..." most of the authors have advanced degrees in literature.

I suspect that if there were an anthology called "Worst American Poetry..." one would find similar credentials.
 
Recidiva said:
I think credentials come in when someone is paying you. Credentials are only presented when you want something from somebody. This is free. So since nobody has to pay for anything except time or internet access, I think those are your credentials for being here. Spare time and internet access. The ability to type or string words together beyond that is a matter of opinion.

Art and poetry may be judged, but that's not the point. People creating poetry and art for free just want to share it to see if it resonates with anyone else. If it doesn't resonate, move on. Not really much need to judge it or critique unless requested. For every person who does "bad" art or "bad" poetry for you, there's another person that gets it because they're on the same level of ability, struggle or expression. It's always nicer to hear that someone gets where you are or gives constructive criticism rather than apply it to some ideal standard that mostly kills art rather than create more art with originality.
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Couldn't a said it better. Nice post!

Some folks like red, some like blue.

:rose:
 
Lauren Hynde said:
Academic credentials mean very little when it comes to writing poetry, and not necessarily that much more when it comes to commenting on it.

The knowledge that should come with the credentials help. Having read great poetry, understanding what makes it great. Wanting to learn is as important. The driving force. Respect for the language is the only fundamental requirement.

Putting more emphasis on who says or writes something (a poem or a critique) than on what is said is not a good sign. By itself, without the things I mentioned above, an academic credential means less than nothing. Given enough time in the right school, a trained monkey could be a Lit Major. It would be an inevitability.
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I basically agree Lauren

we all can write and have an opinion, but when telling others of meter, structure or even counting syllables <rolls eyes> teaching poetry, I for one would feel better knowing they were not self taught. Now Abe Lincoln was self taught it can happen, and some may be good at it. But I for one don't just take the word of any Joe Blow when it comes to a CRITIC telling me how to rearrange my write.

Mark Twain was said by CRITICS in his day that he was nothing more than a children's story teller. Boy, I feel they missed out on that one <don't you?> Critics are not always right! Just like poems are not always good.

I think the credential thing was blown out of proportion (as often happens in these discussions)

but I might add, when I teach Karate, I do not have an orange belt teach a yellow belt how to punch. I would ensure that a black belt teaches this for this reason...

there is stance, movement, delivery, impact and recoil to consider. If not done properly then the punch is either useless or open to attack. okay put this to poetry...foundation, structure, flow, feeling and or ending. I would not ask 1201 to break this down for me since I believe he does not have the credentials nor the knowledge to do so. When I see a critic critique... I can tell rather they have ill feelings mixed with their words, as with 1201 and aunty muse and some anon. So I do not heed these suggestions.

I <grin> get a lot pointers for grammar, I don't think you have to have a degree to point out a miss spelled word but if suggesting a feeling of over use of 'gerunds' I would like to know where this person learned of such a thing. Self taught or actual class room lesson. The difference to me counts greatly for the example above.

Lauren your 'acomplished' may I ask of your scholastic level? It has been coined your the smartest cookie in the cookie jar, so I am curious <grin>

My credentials...

2 years SAM STATE <criminal justice>
20+ years martail arts...akido, tang soo do, moo duk kwon, and of course I teach TAE KWON DO and some TAI CHI exercises...<I say it this way because I have not mastered TAI CHI but the excercise are great for vitality and tranquility.>
My literary acomplishments...I have 2 poems published and one anthology book published with 5 of my stories and one book <by Art> being published as we speak. with 2 more due out by summer 2006. I write songs and I write ZEN tales for my school because the mental aspect of martial arts is just as important as the physical. I am an aritist first with numorus awards and many times over made money drawing. My poetry is new, I recently fell into poetry through BUSHIDO.

I do not critique...I have not the credentials nor the knowledge.
I do however...leave my opinion politely and encouraging.
 
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Lauren Hynde said:
Academic credentials mean very little when it comes to writing poetry, and not necessarily that much more when it comes to commenting on it.

The knowledge that should come with the credentials help. Having read great poetry, understanding what makes it great. Wanting to learn is as important. The driving force. Respect for the language is the only fundamental requirement.

Putting more emphasis on who says or writes something (a poem or a critique) than on what is said is not a good sign. By itself, without the things I mentioned above, an academic credential means less than nothing. Given enough time in the right school, a trained monkey could be a Lit Major. It would be an inevitability.
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Yep, language, conveyance; these are the lychpins of verbal expression. Hell, some of the best "credentials" Ive heard, in terms of verbal understanding, have rolled off the tongues of truck drivers, hookers, mailmen and ditchdiggers.

Im a good listener. The wind carries multitudes day to day.


:rose: :)
 
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twelveoone said:
what credentials to you to write?
This question occured to me, because a certain person has been making a lot of noise about lack of credentials, thinking that it is perfectly valid to write with just a heart, saying nothing about poetry or the tools of poetry.

Think about it.
What credentials does it take?
For one, none. The same stupid reasons you have can be applied to the other side. However, but post your poems, they are no longer yours, they are now the customers. Some people leave asshole comments, more people write asshole poetry. Only the very dumb, make a lot of noise about "credentials" and about the fact that their writing is untouchable.

Lesson one, a rhyme at the end of the line is a nice start, but just because you can do that doesn't mean that it is poetry.
This is no reason for you to open a thread and call it an Academy. Shows a lack of knowledge of definations.
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Why are you so negalive? Academy is just a word for godess' sake!

I haven't read this thread but I can guess who says what. Another contributer to this forum and I were saying, only yesterday, how all the bickering and humourless nit picking is detracting from the site. It's supposed to be about poetry not semantics.
I'm outta here.
 
My Erotic Tale said:
I basically agree Lauren

we all can write and have an opinion, but when telling others of meter, structure or even counting syllables <rolls eyes> teaching poetry, I for one would feel better knowing they were not self taught.
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My Erotic Tale said:
When I see a critic critique... I can tell rather they have ill feelings mixed with their words, as with 1201 and aunty muse and some anon. So I do not heed these suggestions.

I <grin> get a lot pointers for grammar, I don't think you have to have a degree to point out a miss spelled word but if suggesting a feeling of over use of 'gerunds' I would like to know where this person learned of such a thing. Self taught or actual class room lesson. The difference to me counts greatly for the example above.
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Well, as I said before, that is a very bad sign. You should be paying more attention to what is being said, rather than to who says it. If a critique makes sense, it will make sense coming from whomever it may be.

An advice on the use of gerunds would be as valid coming from a 3rd-grade student - because gerunds are basic 3rd-grade stuff - as it would be if it came on the back of a box of breakfast cereal. You need to be willing to learn. You need to understand how to use gerunds, and not just do what someone tells you.

Look at what you have here in this forum. You have literature majors who have yet to master the complex usage of commas and ellipses, and you have people like Tzara, for example, who without any degree in English Lit could wipe the poetic floor with any of us and still have time to enrage André Breton.

My Erotic Tale said:
Lauren your 'acomplished' may I ask of your scholastic level?
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Of course you may.
 
Recidiva said:
Whether or not someone's art is good does not necessarily make them a helpful or tactful critic, and that's the point I try to make. Some people would care more to be right than to be helpful.

Robert Heinlein is a science fiction author. Coventry a place where one of his protagonists chooses to go when he breaks the law where he lives. He'd rather not stay in the "perfect society" where violence is not tolerated at all, even in self defense or against insult. He takes his chances in Coventry. Coventry came to be through a few stories of his, but is basically the remnants of a theocracy that's pretty much degenerated into some level of anarchy and "every man for himself."

Heinlein is a fan of anarchy in that it allows freedom, and not so much a fan of civilization when it loses all touch of what human beings are or a standard of manners. Part of his ideal is the frontier, that place where the most discontented go and make into their own image without the interference of a government.
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Aaah. Then I'm going to Coventry, it's a far more exhillerating and imaginative place to be than the safety of a stifling society of etiquette and rules.
 
bogusbrig said:
Then I'm going to Coventry, it's a far more exhillerating and imaginative place to be than the safety of a stifling society of etiquette and rules.
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Read Robert Heinlein. Stranger In A Strange Land, The Cat Who Walked Through Walls and Friday are good ones to to start with, then you're hooked and have years and years of his works to read through.

He helped me develop a lot of opinions about society and politics and humanity that have stood the tests of experience and time.

He spoils you with being smart and actually having some science in his science fiction. He's definitely the reason why I can't watch or read a lot of science fiction, which is usually a chance to find some babe in a leather bikini whose lip gloss is always fresh.

I envy those who haven't read his stuff yet.
 
Stranger In a Strange Land (ultracondensed)
by Robert A. Heinlein


Valentine Michael Smith
You people would cure all society's ills if you'd just "grow closer" to your friends.

People
You sick dog. (stone him)

Valentine Michael Smith
I don't get it. Truly, I am a STRANGER in a STRANGE LAND. (dies)

THE END​


Sorry. Couldn't resist. Carry on. :D
 
Tristesse said:
Why are you so negalive? Academy is just a word for godess' sake!

I haven't read this thread but I can guess who says what. Another contributer to this forum and I were saying, only yesterday, how all the bickering and humourless nit picking is detracting from the site. It's supposed to be about poetry not semantics.
I'm outta here.
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Being a relative newcomer to this arena, I find it very interesting to see the experienced folk talk about these topics. While I don't like the negativity being throw around, I know it's unavoidable, and none of that is going to prevent me from posting my work here. I've already gotten a sense of who knows what they are talking about, regardless of their educational pedigree and the sheer number of posts they have (since were speaking of credentials).

From Lauren:
You should be paying more attention to what is being said, rather than to who says it. If a critique makes sense, it will make sense coming from whomever it may be.

She has it exactly right in my mind.
 
Recidiva said:
Read Robert Heinlein. Stranger In A Strange Land, The Cat Who Walked Through Walls and Friday are good ones to to start with, then you're hooked and have years and years of his works to read through.

He helped me develop a lot of opinions about society and politics and humanity that have stood the tests of experience and time.

He spoils you with being smart and actually having some science in his science fiction. He's definitely the reason why I can't watch or read a lot of science fiction, which is usually a chance to find some babe in a leather bikini whose lip gloss is always fresh.

I envy those who haven't read his stuff yet.
Click to expand...

Next time I'm in a bookstore I'll check him out. Not that science fiction is my normal diet but hell! I did say I was going to Coventry after all!
 
I am not sure I understand all the brew-haha but I do know this.

Having a book or a poem published means very little about how "good" your poetry is, or even how popular. The poems I have published are no better than the ones I have that have been rejected, and they are certainly not better than the ones that are never submitted by talented poets.

1201 is not going to win any congeniality contests but he knows his shit about writing and critiquing. Who cares where he learned it?

Having a degree means nothing.

You keep your mind open, take the advice that makes sense to you.

I see very little point in critiquing a person's poetry when I do not particularly like even the best of their poems. It would just be me trying to change what they are, even if that is "bad" in my view. What is the point?
 
SeattleRain said:
I am not sure I understand all the brew-haha but I do know this.

Having a book or a poem published means very little about how "good" your poetry is, or even how popular. The poems I have published are no better than the ones I have that have been rejected, and they are certainly not better than the ones that are never submitted by talented poets.

1201 is not going to win any congeniality contests but he knows his shit about writing and critiquing. Who cares where he learned it?

Having a degree means nothing.

You keep your mind open, take the advice that makes sense to you.

I see very little point in critiquing a person's poetry when I do not particularly like even the best of their poems. It would just be me trying to change what they are, even if that is "bad" in my view. What is the point?
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I disagree. Having a degree in literature means you have the opportunity to read a lot. You may, as a student, take the opportunity to do that reading or not and it may or may not enrich your ability to write or critique poetry. The value is in the opportunity for exposure to many different writers and styles. I think I was lucky to have had it. While I was working and raising my children, I had little time to read poetry and less to discuss it with others. Some people have that luxury. I didn't. I do believe though that the more you read, write, and discuss/critique poetry (whether through formal education or informally), the greater the opportunity you will have to be better at all those things.

Of course, arguing about whose way is better and what is or isn't a cliche does not, to me, constitute productive discussion about poetry. There is no one good way. Shakespeare and TS Eliot and Bill Knott and William Blake and Anne Sexton and Robert Browning and Pablo Neruda don't write the same sorts of poems, but they're all good imo.

And I can see why some of my poems were rejected. Not all, but plenty of them. I try to learn and improve. I think most of the better writers I've read here do. You have since you've come here and so have I.
 
My Erotic Tale said:
I basically agree Lauren

we all can write and have an opinion, but when telling others of meter, structure or even counting syllables <rolls eyes> teaching poetry, I for one would feel better knowing they were not self taught. Now Abe Lincoln was self taught it can happen, and some may be good at it. But I for one don't just take the word of any Joe Blow when it comes to a CRITIC telling me how to rearrange my write.

Mark Twain was said by CRITICS in his day that he was nothing more than a children's story teller. Boy, I feel they missed out on that one <don't you?> Critics are not always right! Just like poems are not always good.

I think the credential thing was blown out of proportion (as often happens in these discussions)

but I might add, when I teach Karate, I do not have an orange belt teach a yellow belt how to punch. I would ensure that a black belt teaches this for this reason...

there is stance, movement, delivery, impact and recoil to consider. If not done properly then the punch is either useless or open to attack. okay put this to poetry...foundation, structure, flow, feeling and or ending. I would not ask 1201 to break this down for me since I believe he does not have the credentials nor the knowledge to do so. When I see a critic critique... I can tell rather they have ill feelings mixed with their words, as with 1201 and aunty muse and some anon. So I do not heed these suggestions.

I <grin> get a lot pointers for grammar, I don't think you have to have a degree to point out a miss spelled word but if suggesting a feeling of over use of 'gerunds' I would like to know where this person learned of such a thing. Self taught or actual class room lesson. The difference to me counts greatly for the example above.

Lauren your 'acomplished' may I ask of your scholastic level? It has been coined your the smartest cookie in the cookie jar, so I am curious <grin>

My credentials...

2 years SAM STATE <criminal justice>
20+ years martail arts...akido, tang soo do, moo duk kwon, and of course I teach TAE KWON DO and some TAI CHI exercises...<I say it this way because I have not mastered TAI CHI but the excercise are great for vitality and tranquility.>
My literary acomplishments...I have 2 poems published and one anthology book published with 5 of my stories and one book <by Art> being published as we speak. with 2 more due out by summer 2006. I write songs and I write ZEN tales for my school because the mental aspect of martial arts is just as important as the physical. I am an aritist first with numorus awards and many times over made money drawing. My poetry is new, I recently fell into poetry through BUSHIDO.

I do not critique...I have not the credentials nor the knowledge.
I do however...leave my opinion politely and encouraging.
Click to expand...


Abigail Adams
Ansel Adams
Benyamin Adinugroho
Louisa May Alcott
Paul Allen
Woody Allen
Wally Amos
Hans Christian Andersen
Maya Angelou
Jane Austen
Richard Avedon

James Baldwin (writer)
Hubert Howe Bancroft
Elizabeth Barrett Browning
John Bartlett (publisher)
Jeff Baxter
Alexander Graham Bell
David Ben-Gurion
Wilson Bentley
Carl Bernstein
Derek Bickerton
William Blake
Ray Bradbury
Richard Branson
John Browning
Robert Browning
John Edward Bruce
Will Bruder
Art Buchwald
Robert Burns
Chandler Burr

James Cameron
Joseph Campbell
Andrew Carnegie
Raymond Chandler
Octave Chanute
John Cheever
Agatha Christie
Henry Clay
Grover Cleveland
William Cobbett
Joseph Conrad
Peter Cooper
Ezra Cornell
Hart Crane

István Dabi
Humphry Davy
Michael Dell
Philip K. Dick
Charles Dickens
Walt Disney
Frederick Douglass
Matt Drudge

James Buchanan Eads
Francis Ysidro Edgeworth
Thomas Edison
Larry Ellison
Jeri Ellsworth

Michael Faraday
Philo Farnsworth
Howard Fast
William Faulkner
Bobby Fischer
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Thomas Fleming (author)
Shelby Foote
Henry Ford
Benjamin Franklin
Robert Frost
Buckminster Fuller

Carl Friedrich Gauss
David Geffen
George Green
Henry George
Charlotte Perkins Gilman
Emma Goldman
Benjamin Gompertz
Richard Grasso
Horace Greeley

Kendall Hailey
Alex Haley
Pamela Harriman
Joel Chandler Harris
John Harrison
Bret Harte
Oliver Heaviside
Ernest Hemingway
Jimi Hendrix
Patrick Henry
Milton S. Hershey
Karl Hess
Eric Hoffer
Elias Howe
Wayne Huizenga
Friedensreich Hundertwasser
Thomas Henry Huxley

Washington Irving

Peter Jennings
Steve Jobs
Andrew Johnson
John H. Johnson
José Rizal

Dean Kamen
Kevin Kelly
Bernard Kerik
Kirk Kerkorian
Samuel Martin Kier
Ray Kroc
Stanley Kubrick

Louis L'Amour
Lai Chee Ying
Rose Wilder Lane
Jaron Lanier
Estée Lauder (person)
Ralph Lauren
Bill Lear
Doris Lessing
Rush Limbaugh
Abraham Lincoln
Kató Lomb
Jack London
H. P. Lovecraft
Clare Boothe Luce

John Major
Malcolm X
Guglielmo Marconi
Cyrus McCormick
William McKinley
Herman Melville
H. L. Mencken
James Merrill
Henry Miller
John Milton
David Miscavige
Tom Monaghan
James Monroe
Arthur Ernest Morgan

Simon Newcomb
Isaac Newton
Florence Nightingale

Sean O'Casey
O. Henry
Adolph Ochs

Jack Parsons
Edgar Allan Poe
Alexander Pope
Beatrix Potter

Srinivasa Ramanujan
John D. Rockefeller
John Romero
Ronald Bass
Eleanor Roosevelt
Harold Ross
Karl Rove

J. D. Salinger
Carl Sandburg
Colonel Sanders
Margaret Sanger
José Saramago
David Sarnoff
Anna Sewell
George Bernard Shaw
Sam Sloan
Huston Smith
Gary Snyder
Soichiro Honda
Mary Somerville
Herbert Spencer
George Stephenson
Edward Durrell Stone
Jesse Stuart

Quentin Tarantino
Niccolo Fontana Tartaglia
Zachary Taylor
Nikola Tesla
Dave Thomas
Henry David Thoreau
Uma Thurman
Leo Tolstoy
Harry S. Truman
Ted Turner
Mark Twain

Martin Van Buren
Gore Vidal
Leonardo da Vinci

Wachowski brothers
George Washington
Thomas J. Watson
Alan Watts
Benjamin West
George Westinghouse
Edith Wharton
Walt Whitman
John Greenleaf Whittier
Laura Ingalls Wilder
August Wilson
Steve Wozniak
Frank Lloyd Wright

Chuck Yeager


and me!
​

I thank sincerely whoever upstairs decided that these people needed no formal education. Just set back for a minute and think what might have never been. It would have been an astounding loss.
 
My Erotic Tale said:
I basically agree Lauren

we all can write and have an opinion, but when telling others of meter, structure or even counting syllables <rolls eyes> teaching poetry, I for one would feel better knowing they were not self taught. Now Abe Lincoln was self taught it can happen, and some may be good at it. But I for one don't just take the word of any Joe Blow when it comes to a CRITIC telling me how to rearrange my write.

Mark Twain was said by CRITICS in his day that he was nothing more than a children's story teller. Boy, I feel they missed out on that one <don't you?> Critics are not always right! Just like poems are not always good.

I think the credential thing was blown out of proportion (as often happens in these discussions)

but I might add, when I teach Karate, I do not have an orange belt teach a yellow belt how to punch. I would ensure that a black belt teaches this for this reason...

there is stance, movement, delivery, impact and recoil to consider. If not done properly then the punch is either useless or open to attack. okay put this to poetry...foundation, structure, flow, feeling and or ending. I would not ask 1201 to break this down for me since I believe he does not have the credentials nor the knowledge to do so. When I see a critic critique... I can tell rather they have ill feelings mixed with their words, as with 1201 and aunty muse and some anon. So I do not heed these suggestions.

I <grin> get a lot pointers for grammar, I don't think you have to have a degree to point out a miss spelled word but if suggesting a feeling of over use of 'gerunds' I would like to know where this person learned of such a thing. Self taught or actual class room lesson. The difference to me counts greatly for the example above.

Lauren your 'acomplished' may I ask of your scholastic level? It has been coined your the smartest cookie in the cookie jar, so I am curious <grin>

My credentials...

2 years SAM STATE <criminal justice>
20+ years martail arts...akido, tang soo do, moo duk kwon, and of course I teach TAE KWON DO and some TAI CHI exercises...<I say it this way because I have not mastered TAI CHI but the excercise are great for vitality and tranquility.>
My literary acomplishments...I have 2 poems published and one anthology book published with 5 of my stories and one book <by Art> being published as we speak. with 2 more due out by summer 2006. I write songs and I write ZEN tales for my school because the mental aspect of martial arts is just as important as the physical. I am an aritist first with numorus awards and many times over made money drawing. My poetry is new, I recently fell into poetry through BUSHIDO.

I do not critique...I have not the credentials nor the knowledge.
I do however...leave my opinion politely and encouraging.
Click to expand...

Our Love is like a River
Here you go birthday boy - your chance to explain, techiques, writing from the heart, soul, asshole or whatever. You know I don't give a flying fuck about credentials. Explain to me how I missed the depth. (Oh it has a river in it :rolleyes: , rivers are deep)

It is my opionion this "poem" is crap, one reason it is crap, is because you are too busy running around, playing down home hero. Not only are you critic adverse. your pattern seems to be running around a variety of threads in a semi-rant about it, am I wrong "Mr. Nice guy"?. Instead of shutting the fuck up and listening.
Which was one of the morals of that story, Mr. Zen.

Go for it - pull it apart, show me how it works, quit bucking for the sympathy vote.
Show me the mechanics of the writing, in your words, don't bother with the technical terms, just tell me why you wrote what you did, what effect you expect from it.

and what in the hell does teaching karate, have to do with anything?
 
for those that came in late, Art was the one that made the issue of credentials, one can not critise without the credentials. Along with a couple of other negative remarks.
 
twelveoone said:
for those that came in late, Art was the one that made the issue of credentials, one can not critise without the credentials. Along with a couple of other negative remarks.
Click to expand...


;) I know that!
 
twelveoone said:
Our Love is like a River
Here you go birthday boy - your chance to explain, techiques, writing from the heart, soul, asshole or whatever. You know I don't give a flying fuck about credentials. Explain to me how I missed the depth. (Oh it has a river in it :rolleyes: , rivers are deep)

It is my opionion this "poem" is crap, one reason it is crap, is because you are too busy running around, playing down home hero. Not only are you critic adverse. your pattern seems to be running around a variety of threads in a semi-rant about it, am I wrong "Mr. Nice guy"?. Instead of shutting the fuck up and listening.
Which was one of the morals of that story, Mr. Zen.

Go for it - pull it apart, show me how it works, quit bucking for the sympathy vote.
Show me the mechanics of the writing, in your words, don't bother with the technical terms, just tell me why you wrote what you did, what effect you expect from it.

and what in the hell does teaching karate, have to do with anything?
Click to expand...

*falling slap out of my chair laughin!

Jeez 1201. Don't be so subtle, would ya???
 
twelveoone said:
Our Love is like a River
Here you go birthday boy - your chance to explain, techiques, writing from the heart, soul, asshole or whatever. You know I don't give a flying fuck about credentials. Explain to me how I missed the depth. (Oh it has a river in it :rolleyes: , rivers are deep)

It is my opinion this "poem" is crap, one reason it is crap, is because you are too busy running around, playing down home hero. Not only are you critic adverse. your pattern seems to be running around a variety of threads in a semi-rant about it, am I wrong "Mr. Nice guy"?. Instead of shutting the fuck up and listening.
Which was one of the morals of that story, Mr. Zen.

Go for it - pull it apart, show me how it works, quit bucking for the sympathy vote.
Show me the mechanics of the writing, in your words, don't bother with the technical terms, just tell me why you wrote what you did, what effect you expect from it.

and what in the hell does teaching karate, have to do with anything?
Click to expand...


cussing seems to be a highlight with your emotions 12

the poem is just a poem, sitting by the river I found similarities between my relation ship and the river. The poem is just a poem and not one of my better, the point was your twisted 'hatred' for me spills out in your critique, so there-fore I shan't be paying your opinion much mind at 'tall.

Is this a good critic?


*
10/09/05 By: twelveoone
A really bad collection of cliches, cheap sentiment, or is that just sediment of nothing new to say, even dipping into forced rhyme "we both just want to scream". Your "friends" to do wish to tell you this, and you do wish to listen.
Yes I gave you a 50, it is as low as I mark, it doesn't even deserve that.
I am tired of YOUR critical attitude of anyone pointing out the faults of a "poem". Remember the email, you sent me slamming the one I got an "E" - that you didn't agree with. That is what is known as inconsistency, your best work shows evidence of it. This one doesn't - it is just bad.
Yes, I have the balls to leave my number - 1201


the karate example was to point out the fact that there is a reason why the learned teach in steps. The scholastic achievement is there for a reason if every body just popped up with (credentials by knowledge) by reading then we would not need Universities.

with that being said the point was we all can create art or poetry but are there professional critics with out credentials? to be a critic you better know your stuff and most importantly if you want some one to listen then the delivery should be more understandable than your poems crap!

You just like picking on the hick red neck 12? <grin> Your 'note' to me said your tired of the crap. "WHAT CRAP"
 
twelveoone said:
for those that came in late, Art was the one that made the issue of credentials, one can not critise without the credentials. Along with a couple of other negative remarks.
Click to expand...

In the thread "A Poem Academy" is a poem by LeBroz
with out his permission I won't bring it over.

but it is a really good poem pointing at yesterdays attacks on me and my replys and then again todays 1201's play on my arse <grin> "credentials"

credentials is credibility...
if your spilling your tistaste for me in a critic then why should I listen to your spat?
 
Last edited:
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