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How do I write stories more appealing to female audiences?

ArthurG77 said:
Despite obvious lack of experience in writing. A story full of plot holes and little characterisation. I still feel the story telling and the structure were quite good. Even if not to your taate. Sorry.

Yeh, to be honest she wasn't to attractive (in real life people called her fredrica mercury). But why should a female be attractive in order for them to become the object of affection? Although I do realise that may put readers off. Yeh, as regards to descriptions, less is more sometimes. I agree.
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A man or woman doesn't have to be attractive, or conventionally attractive, or whatever, to be the object of anyone's affections. You just need -- as I've been saying -- to lay the groundwork for that. Perhaps there's a physical feature that is considered less-than-attractive, but appeals to the person attracted. Or the inside makes the outside beautiful, whatever. I think if the reader believes that the man (or woman) finds the love interest beautiful, then it doesn't matter what they actually look like.
 
So, haven't read your story yet, but I'll throw in what I've learned from feedback, missteps and observation. If this is preachy or stuff you already know, you have my apologies. Anyway:

*Women readers generally want some emotional context to go with the sex. (h/t to PennLady for mentioning context!) It doesn't have to be love; turns out sometimes women want the occasional meaningless hook-up, too, and that's okay. But even in a one-night-stand, there's some emotion there. I think guys tend to take those emotions for granted (well, of COURSE we're excited/horny/whatever), but as writers, we shouldn't. You don't have to go on and on, but a line or two of emotion to go with the hot-and-heavy action can go a long way.

*As has been mentioned before, numbers and specific descriptions of body parts are not nearly as important as looser adjectives. "Well-endowed" is better than exact measurements. This goes for a lot of male readers as well.

*Double-check yourself when it comes to respect and equality. No, really. Even when you think of yourself as a good feminist, you need to think twice because our culture uses a lot of gender-loaded terms. A lot of women really get tired of hearing "pussy" used to describe weakness. "Rape" should not be thrown around as a term to describe a thorough thrashing at a game or being taken for a ride financially. Things like that. Don't obsess about it, but give the matter some thought.

*Write women who take control of their lives and make choices for themselves, rather than going where the winds blow or being at the mercy of their hormones. "OhmyGodIwannafuckhimsobad" can be a fun motivation for a short time, but if that's all there is to a woman as a character, she'll get boring fast. I've generally gotten a lot of props for the women in my stories taking the initiative in their lives (sexually and otherwise), even when the story tends to center around a male lead.

Have the woman come to the man's rescue on occasion. When it's the man's turn to be the hero, make sure that the woman's plight doesn't leave her as a helpless damsel in distress; just 'cause she's in trouble doesn't mean she should whimper and cry without trying to help herself.
 
bashfullyshameless said:
So, haven't read your story yet, but I'll throw in what I've learned from feedback, missteps and observation. If this is preachy or stuff you already know, you have my apologies. Anyway:

*Women readers generally want some emotional context to go with the sex. (h/t to PennLady for mentioning context!) It doesn't have to be love; turns out sometimes women want the occasional meaningless hook-up, too, and that's okay. But even in a one-night-stand, there's some emotion there. I think guys tend to take those emotions for granted (well, of COURSE we're excited/horny/whatever), but as writers, we shouldn't. You don't have to go on and on, but a line or two of emotion to go with the hot-and-heavy action can go a long way.

*As has been mentioned before, numbers and specific descriptions of body parts are not nearly as important as looser adjectives. "Well-endowed" is better than exact measurements. This goes for a lot of male readers as well.

*Double-check yourself when it comes to respect and equality. No, really. Even when you think of yourself as a good feminist, you need to think twice because our culture uses a lot of gender-loaded terms. A lot of women really get tired of hearing "pussy" used to describe weakness. "Rape" should not be thrown around as a term to describe a thorough thrashing at a game or being taken for a ride financially. Things like that. Don't obsess about it, but give the matter some thought.

*Write women who take control of their lives and make choices for themselves, rather than going where the winds blow or being at the mercy of their hormones. "OhmyGodIwannafuckhimsobad" can be a fun motivation for a short time, but if that's all there is to a woman as a character, she'll get boring fast. I've generally gotten a lot of props for the women in my stories taking the initiative in their lives (sexually and otherwise), even when the story tends to center around a male lead.

Have the woman come to the man's rescue on occasion. When it's the man's turn to be the hero, make sure that the woman's plight doesn't leave her as a helpless damsel in distress; just 'cause she's in trouble doesn't mean she should whimper and cry without trying to help herself.
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That advice is choc full of win. Thanks.
 
Also, add to bashfully Shameless's list-- see if you can include some point, somewhere, where the woman or women are NOT talking or thinking about men.

ArthurG77 said:
Despite obvious lack of experience in writing. A story full of plot holes and little characterisation. I still feel the story telling and the structure were quite good. Even if not to your taate. Sorry.

Yeh, to be honest she wasn't to attractive (in real life people called her fredrica mercury). But why should a female be attractive in order for them to become the object of affection? Although I do realise that may put readers off. Yeh, as regards to descriptions, less is more sometimes. I agree.
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I know of a writer who fell into a hole with women readers, because he wrote his female character so extremely self-congratulatory-- She was So beautiful, and how ugly everyone else was. Women flocked away in droves.


I have no idea what an e-cup size looks like. And I'm a titties-loving dyke.
 
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Stella_Omega said:
Also, add to bashfully Shameless's list-- see if you can include some point, somewhere, where the woman or women are NOT talking or thinking about men.
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I considered adding that. I've only recently become conscious of it myself. However, I think that particular angle is a little less vital in erotica--unless it's a lengthy story that goes beyond relationships (and/or hook-ups). I tend to need to pay more attention to that in my stories, because my stuff tends to be long and to involve gunfights and other non-erotic ridiculousness. But if you're trying to do a story of 20K or less focusing on sex and/or romance, that rule may lead one to lengthen the story for no particular benefit other than to serve that rule.

It's a great benchmark. I'm just not sure of its universal applicability in this genre. Definitely important for stuff that's more than straight erotica, though.
 
Stella_Omega said:
Also, add to bashfully Shameless's list-- see if you can include some point, somewhere, where the woman or women are NOT talking or thinking about men.
.
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I think I agree with you whole heartedly while disagreeing at the same time. :p

I think you touch on a truism that is not enough normal female interactions are represented in media to which I say FUCK YES!

But my issue is more to the topic/content side.

Lets take Rambo movies. The issue is not that ladies arent fairly represented in that movie. Its that theres to many damn Rambo movies (which is exclusinary by its plot/content/topic) and not enough movies where the plot revolves around normal everyday women and expected actions.

I feel like some males here might try to "bolt on" female friendly concepts to something that is not inherantly female friendly (like this MILF hunt story we have here) It seems nutty to me as it will never be enough of one or the other, it will fail at BOTH aims.

Serve the plot always Ive thought. Yes there needs to be a much wider range of plots around here (to satisfy all readers) but always serve the plot you chose.

Though I worry Im being dense here...
 
Stella_Omega said:
I have no idea what an e-cup size looks like. And I'm a titties-loving dyke.
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My wife and I have a friend who is an E cup. If you took the liner out of my hard hat she could use it comfortably as a single bra cup.

Now the realities of those.

Every bra she has is custom made for her. That is the only way that she can get ones that fits right.

Her back hurts. All the time.That's a lot of weight to have to carry around and even though she's been that big since she was about 17 there really isn't a getting use to it.

While she looks awesome in a bathing suit the neck or shoulder straps most of them have are uncomfortable. A neck strap cuts into her so badly she can't even wear one really.

She's constantly the center of attention. Think that's a good thing? Then picture if you can what it would feel like to be stared at everywhere you go. Plus it's for something she has no control over. She didn't get to chose to be that size.

She also gets a lot of jokes. Even from people who should know better. Like myself.

(She had a Care Bear t-shirt on one day and I told her I couldn't 'bear' to see an animal being tortured on a 'rack' like that any longer. it was funny at the time She even laughed.)

While we have a tendency to focus on them more than we probably should large is not always better. Probably one of the sexiest ladies I know is maybe an A cup. But damn that woman is hot as hell. Not because of the size of her breast but because of the way she caries herself.

Growl.

M.S.Tarot
 
bashfullyshameless said:
I considered adding that. I've only recently become conscious of it myself. However, I think that particular angle is a little less vital in erotica--unless it's a lengthy story that goes beyond relationships (and/or hook-ups). I tend to need to pay more attention to that in my stories, because my stuff tends to be long and to involve gunfights and other non-erotic ridiculousness. But if you're trying to do a story of 20K or less focusing on sex and/or romance, that rule may lead one to lengthen the story for no particular benefit other than to serve that rule.

It's a great benchmark. I'm just not sure of its universal applicability in this genre. Definitely important for stuff that's more than straight erotica, though.
Click to expand...
"straight" erotica! haha you said a funny!

But seriously... the essence of the rule is that women are portrayed as wholly and entirely as the men are. Like, if the guys get gunfights, presumably they aren't talking about women so much during those scenes. I bet you can find ONE sentence for some woman that isn't about a man. It can be about nail polish, yanno?
 
For the first 4,000 words in a Literotica story? Whoa. The OP came here because he didn't think he was getting enough response. There aren't THAT many readers coming to an erotica board wanting to wait 4,000 words for what brought them here rather than to Reader's Digest. Let's get real.
 
RodenAddison said:
I have several stories SR that hit a whopping 3 lit pages, about 10k words before any sex occurs. Not everyone is looking for an instant stroker and not everyone is looking to write them. Some on lit are looking for an actual story. And he's asking about getting women's attention. To me that means building the relationship into the story first.
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Here is a story that is a whopping 6 pages long. And all that happens is a blowjob at the end. But the build up is incredible. The story begins with a young woman reluctant and ends with her willing. The dialogue between her and an older man leads to her being coherced. A well written story and one of the only stories I am willing to commit to reading a full 6 pages of. http://www.literotica.com/s/a-schoolgirls-lesson-ch-01 And yes, the female character is 18 years of age.
 
sr71plt said:
For the first 4,000 words in a Literotica story? Whoa. The OP came here because he didn't think he was getting enough response. There aren't THAT many readers coming to an erotica board wanting to wait 4,000 words for what brought them here rather than to Reader's Digest. Let's get real.
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True.
 
RodenAddison said:
I disagree. Mostly we're all wired the same way. Women, even when they disagree with it (shuts off PMs for a few days) are looking for a guy who can be sensitive, but also strong and willing to protect, even if they're not looking for it. In fact a story where the woman is offended by the guy presuming to protect is a pretty common occurrence. I don't think you have to be a woman to write a story women will enjoy. I think you have to have an idea about what makes PEOPLE tick, and that usually is a relationship.

When it comes down to it, women are far more likely to want the relationship. Even on literotica BBS you will find women asking for someone to chat with and they are not willing to have cyber sex right away. Why do they say that? Because they're looking for something a little deeper. Certainly not everyone is alike but in general that's the way it works.

Build the characters, let them care about each other for whatever reason, and put your pants on for at least the first 4000 words..
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I have read a lot of evolutionary psychology. And there have been scientific tests to prove theories on 'mate selection'. It has been scientifically proven to some extent that women actually find the traits in a man that make then good fathers, that means being sensitive to feelings. But also being a dominent alpha-male, attractive. Yes, it's true. It has been scientifically tested in both human and animal social groups. And the results are that is what females tend to be attracted too. Also physical beauty is a huge factor in mate selection because it apparently shows (in human and animal species) that the object of attraction has superior genes. Even though we know that isn't neccessarily a fact. We are instinctively 'wired' to unconciously respond to physical beauty, because it is an evolved mechanism to aid the survival and reproduction of the species. - Evolution.

I also know from experience that women tend to be more concerned for a mans physical appearence than men are for womens. Sorry Ladies.
 
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MSTarot said:
My wife and I have a friend who is an E cup. If you took the liner out of my hard hat she could use it comfortably as a single bra cup.

Now the realities of those.

Every bra she has is custom made for her. That is the only way that she can get ones that fits right.

Her back hurts. All the time.That's a lot of weight to have to carry around and even though she's been that big since she was about 17 there really isn't a getting use to it.

While she looks awesome in a bathing suit the neck or shoulder straps most of them have are uncomfortable. A neck strap cuts into her so badly she can't even wear one really.

She's constantly the center of attention. Think that's a good thing? Then picture if you can what it would feel like to be stared at everywhere you go. Plus it's for something she has no control over. She didn't get to chose to be that size.

She also gets a lot of jokes. Even from people who should know better. Like myself.

(She had a Care Bear t-shirt on one day and I told her I couldn't 'bear' to see an animal being tortured on a 'rack' like that any longer. it was funny at the time She even laughed.)

While we have a tendency to focus on them more than we probably should large is not always better. Probably one of the sexiest ladies I know is maybe an A cup. But damn that woman is hot as hell. Not because of the size of her breast but because of the way she caries herself.

Growl.

M.S.Tarot
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My wife is an E-cup. She doesn't have them especially made, she buys her bra's from ordinary stores. However, not all stores stock them. And having larger than DD breasts is quite common. Especially in larger women. What size do you think 'Dog the bounty hunter's' wife's knockers are? Lol, huuuuuge. I thought about writing a story about her Lol. To be honest though. The Ass is my favorite part of a ladies anatomy.
 
Euphony said:
I think I agree with you whole heartedly while disagreeing at the same time. :p

I think you touch on a truism that is not enough normal female interactions are represented in media to which I say FUCK YES!

But my issue is more to the topic/content side.

Lets take Rambo movies. The issue is not that ladies arent fairly represented in that movie. Its that theres to many damn Rambo movies (which is exclusinary by its plot/content/topic) and not enough movies where the plot revolves around normal everyday women and expected actions.

I feel like some males here might try to "bolt on" female friendly concepts to something that is not inherantly female friendly (like this MILF hunt story we have here) It seems nutty to me as it will never be enough of one or the other, it will fail at BOTH aims.

Serve the plot always Ive thought. Yes there needs to be a much wider range of plots around here (to satisfy all readers) but always serve the plot you chose.

Though I worry Im being dense here...
Click to expand...



No, not a 'MILF hunt story'

Also. It may come as a shock butmany women have fantasies about age difference. Young women for older men. Or young men for older women. If the story is written well. It can appeal to females as much as the males. Sorry but saying that the subject of an older 'milf' with a 19 year old as in my story is "not inhereantly female friendly" is bullshit - many older women fantasize about younger men and vise-versa. The subject is likely to arouse both genders. However I was looking for tips on how to write in such a way as to appeal more to female readers.

Also the title of my story doesn't help. that is more likely to come accross as just another male fantasy.
 
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Evopsyche, huh. A little learning is, as they say, a dangerous thing.

Try a google search such as; "Evolutionary psychology debunked" and explore some scientific dissent and disagreement.

And no, there have been no scientific tests that prove anything beyond the empirical fact that lots of us share similar likes and dislikes, except for lots of us who are outliers.
 
Stella_Omega said:
Evopsyche, huh. A little learning is, as they say, a dangerous thing.

Try a google search such as; "Evolutionary psychology debunked" and explore some scientific dissent and disagreement.

And no, there have been no scientific tests that prove anything beyond the empirical fact that lots of us share similar likes and dislikes, except for lots of us who are outliers.
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Sorry stella but I have books that I have read of this in. Sorry if it offends you. Yes, there is some disagreement with evolutionary psychology. But there is with many other subjects.

You could also google, 'Darwin's theory of evolution debunked' and get results. But that doesn't neccessarily make Darwins theory wrong does it?
 
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sr71plt said:
For the first 4,000 words in a Literotica story? Whoa. The OP came here because he didn't think he was getting enough response. There aren't THAT many readers coming to an erotica board wanting to wait 4,000 words for what brought them here rather than to Reader's Digest. Let's get real.
Click to expand...

Maybe it depends on the section. I was nervous about posting my first submission here - it has over 3000 words of talky stuff before the action starts, and I thought that might be way too much. But the response was a lot more positive than I'd expected - seems there are at least a few readers out there who want a long introduction.
 
Stella_Omega said:
Evopsyche, huh. A little learning is, as they say, a dangerous thing.

Try a google search such as; "Evolutionary psychology debunked" and explore some scientific dissent and disagreement.

And no, there have been no scientific tests that prove anything beyond the empirical fact that lots of us share similar likes and dislikes, except for lots of us who are outliers.
Click to expand...

To be fair with you here is an excellent article you may like that debunks some ES myths. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=student-surveys-contradict-claims
 
ArthurG77 said:
I have read a lot of evolutionary psychology. And there have been scientific tests to prove theories on 'mate selection'. It has been scientifically proven to some extent that women actually find the traits in a man that make then good fathers, that means being sensitive to feelings. But also being a dominent alpha-male, attractive. Yes, it's true. It has been scientifically tested in both human and animal social groups.
Click to expand...

Actually, there's plenty of research out there showing that females DON'T necessarily prefer dominant alpha-males.

An example in humans: http://wwww.scu.edu/cas/psychology/faculty/upload/Burger-Cosby-JRP-1999.pdf

Non-human animals (with several cites to further research with similar conclusions): http://biology.anu.edu.au/hosted_sites/jennions/publications/Paper56.pdf

ArthurG77 said:
We are instinctively 'wired' to unconciously respond to physical beauty, because it is an evolved mechanism to aid the survival and reproduction of the species. - Evolution.
Click to expand...

Ideals of "physical beauty" vary greatly from culture to culture. Fat, thin, long necks, tattooed lips, scarred bellies, bonsai'd feet... you name it, some culture somewhere finds it attractive. Which culture's version of "physical beauty" is it that we're wired for?

ArthurG77 said:
Sorry stella but I have books that I have read of this in.
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Well, that settles it then!
 
Bramblethorn said:
Actually, there's plenty of research out there showing that females DON'T necessarily prefer dominant alpha-males.

An example in humans: http://wwww.scu.edu/cas/psychology/faculty/upload/Burger-Cosby-JRP-1999.pdf

Non-human animals (with several cites to further research with similar conclusions): http://biology.anu.edu.au/hosted_sites/jennions/publications/Paper56.pdf



Ideals of "physical beauty" vary greatly from culture to culture. Fat, thin, long necks, tattooed lips, scarred bellies, bonsai'd feet... you name it, some culture somewhere finds it attracbytive. Which culture's version of "physical beauty" is it that we're wired for?



Well, that settles it then!
Click to expand...

Yes yes yes. I know there are of course variants of physical beauty. There is no specific thing thatp defines absolute physical beauty. We are wired to respond to what ever we see as beauty. The brain is an evolved organ. And not neccessarily does not mean not at all. Research results vary from test to test. Also see my other post to Stella with q link to an article that debunks some ep myths. We can all see something we don't like and google something that debunks it. There is a considerable amount of information on the subject.
 
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When I say "WOMEN TEND TO" it does NOT mean, ALL WOMEN ABSOLUTELY. Yes I said I have read it in books. But I am a critical thinker, I have read countless articles, had discussions with fellow ep enthusiasts and even attended 2 lectures before coming to my conclusion. And even now I am so critical as to not take that conclusion as absolute. Sigh.....
 
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ArthurG77 said:
No, not a 'MILF hunt story'

Also. It may come as a shock butmany women have fantasies about age difference. Young women for older men. Or young men for older women. If the story is written well. It can appeal to females as much as the males. Sorry but saying that the subject of an older 'milf' with a 19 year old as in my story is "not inhereantly female friendly" is bullshit - many older women fantasize about younger men and vise-versa. The subject is likely to arouse both genders. However I was looking for tips on how to write in such a way as to appeal more to female readers.

Also the title of my story doesn't help. that is more likely to come accross as just another male fantasy.
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I don't think anyone is shocked or surprised by the idea of an older woman with a younger man. And yes, as I've said,a well-written story is important in any genre and no matter the audience. Also, I don't think your story is a matter of a "MILF hunt," if only b/c the woman is right there, he doesn't go looking for her. Nor is there any indication that the narrator prefers older women in general, he just has a thing for this one, which is fine.

As many of us here have said, yes, your story does read like a male fantasy. And that's not a bad thing, just an observation; it's only "bad" in the sense that it probably won't appeal to a lot of women.

ArthurG77 said:
Sorry stella but I have books that I have read of this in. Sorry if it offends you. Yes, there is some disagreement with evolutionary psychology. But there is with many other subjects.

You could also google, 'Darwin's theory of evolution debunked' and get results. But that doesn't neccessarily make Darwins theory wrong does it?
Click to expand...

I took the basic point there as being, just b/c it's in a book doesn't make it true.

As for your wife and her E-cup, it could be that as with many sizes, a UK "E" may not be a US "E". Even two women who are, say, 34C, won't be exactly alike. If you find large-breasted women attractive, no problem, but you might be better to describe that in different terms.
 
Nothing Easier! Read Erotic Romance

ArthurG77 said:
Help. I want to write stories that appeal to female readers.
Click to expand...
After all this advice I'm going to say...Nothing easier.

Go to the romance category on this site and start reading. Read the ones that got top marks, gold stars and awards. There are certainly men who read the romance category, but it is still dominated by female readers. And a demonstration, and example of what they want and what they like will likely do you a great deal more good than if we make up lists of do's-and-don'ts.

Read what women like to read and you'll start to see what your stories need in order to lure them in.
 
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