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Questions of Extraordinary Ignorance

bashfullyshameless

bashfullyshameless

Literotica Guru
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Posts
513
So it turns out that most of my "erotica" reading has been from this site.

I mean yeah, letters and stories in dirty magazines before the Internet got cool, sure, and occasionally I have read published anthologies of (very) short stories, but it turns out I'm pretty ignorant of "erotica" as a genre.

That leads me to this question: if a frequent reader of the genre were to pick up a novel specifically billing itself as "erotica," would that reader generally expect the novel to follow a woman as its PoV protagonist? Are male PoV protagonists just as common?

Usually I find myself coming up with main characters before anything else, but I'm toying with an idea that is more about setting and mood. That leads me to think that maybe I should make an actual effort to write toward genre norms. At least a little. I mean, inevitably it's going to involve slapstick comedy and high-octane chainsaw fights on a burning cruise ship or something, because this is me we're talking about here, but the question stands: is "erotica" as a genre usually built on a female PoV protagonist, or are male PoV protagonists perfectly common?
 
Published erotica once mainly was Romance from a female POV, yes (with a side market of a limited amount of Male POV GM and a smattering of mixed POV BDSM). Now it's no holds barred, though.
 
If you want to be "safe," sure, stick to writing from a woman's point of view. That's what's kept Nora Roberts and a legion of other supposed erotica writers going. But as sr point out, the erotica genre has blossomed in the last several years, thanks in no little part to the Internet and the expansion of what is accepted in the genre. It used to be that "erotica" was just a slightly raunchier take on "romance," but now it's become its own monster.

It's up to you how you want to write, but if you pick a style based on how well it will sell, you might as well be a technical writer. ;)
 
A woman's POV in romance or 'light erotica' might be 'safe'

But in group sex, BDSM, and especially non con....I don't think writing from a female POV is always safe.

In fact with the undercurrent of misogyny and loathing of women that run through sites like this I would say many times being a female lead is far from safe

But that's on sites like this, not off the shelves at B&N where Nora Roberts writes 'real erotica' and Shades of Grey is "BDSM"

Then again go see the movie....Anastasia was far from safe:rolleyes:
 
bashfullyshameless said:
. . . the question stands: is "erotica" as a genre usually built on a female PoV protagonist, or are male PoV protagonists perfectly common?
Click to expand...

Unless you're writing in the Lesbian category, I don't believe you need to limit your flaming cruise ship sinking, chainsaw swinging sex stories to a female POV, unless you have more fun writing from a female POV. (Personally, I'm unsure how well a petite size 0 woman, with a mane of waist long blonde hair and a triple D cup size will do with swinging that massive Stihl MS 880 MAGNUM single stroke chainsaw with its 24" guide bar, but then again, I have a limited imagination.)

If you're asking "which POV gets higher/more votes?" You're approaching your writing wrong. A well written story with interesting characters told by a compelling narrator matters much more. Personally? I'm still struggling with making sure I include both a noun and a verb in every sentence.
 
I can't speak to the genre as a whole, but as a man, married to the same woman for 41 years and still having no idea how her mind works, I always write from a male POV. I'm unsure I can come across as believable using a female POV. I think I'd end up with a paper doll that sounds like a man. That's a personal short coming I'm working on.
 
ObTopic: First, we must define terms because if we don't agree on qualifications we can't measure anything. I have a cute literary triage system:

* Non-erotic: sex is not central to the story
* Erotic: sex is central to the story
* Porn: sex IS the story

I haven't yet inserted 'romance' into the evaluation. Emotions are the story, maybe?

The OP question is, if literature billed as 'erotica' is acquired and read, will its POV more likely be male or female? My answer is, it depends on 1) who labels it as 'erotica' and when, 2) who acquires it and their mood at the time, and 3) when and where it was acquired.

Yes, time is critical. Contemporary 'erotica' rather differs from such of previous decades. Cheap publishing and the Internet changed things -- in the Anglophone world, anyway. Hot writing was at time quite dominated by male writers and POVs. Many more female writers and POVs emerged in the past half-century. 'Romance' has gotten sexier, more explicit. Erotica is where you find it.

From what POV will the story be told? That depends on which stack of books you grabbed it from.
 
Hypoxia said:
ObTopic: First, we must define terms because if we don't agree on qualifications we can't measure anything. I have a cute literary triage system:

* Non-erotic: sex is not central to the story
* Erotic: sex is central to the story
* Porn: sex IS the story

I haven't yet inserted 'romance' into the evaluation. Emotions are the story, maybe?

The OP question is, if literature billed as 'erotica' is acquired and read, will its POV more likely be male or female? My answer is, it depends on 1) who labels it as 'erotica' and when, 2) who acquires it and their mood at the time, and 3) when and where it was acquired.

Yes, time is critical. Contemporary 'erotica' rather differs from such of previous decades. Cheap publishing and the Internet changed things -- in the Anglophone world, anyway. Hot writing was at time quite dominated by male writers and POVs. Many more female writers and POVs emerged in the past half-century. 'Romance' has gotten sexier, more explicit. Erotica is where you find it.

From what POV will the story be told? That depends on which stack of books you grabbed it from.
Click to expand...

Erotica has gotten confusing, especially with self-publishing authors as their own gatekeepers, there's little preventing any author from designating their story as "erotic." I would venture to suggest that many of the more explicit romances you cite could qualify as porn twenty or thirty years ago.

Mostly, though, I'm mulling over your loose classifications contrasting non-erotic, erotic, & porn. I don't disagree, but your thoughts have encouraged a bit of reflection about my stories. I feel as if I write strokers disguised as stories. The sex motivates the change in the character (easy for me since I write about fringe, nearly fetish topics).

Curious if you'd classify such a story as "erotica" or "porn?" I keep flipping the same coin without resolution.
 
Why write from just a female POV, in heterosexual erotica?
Why write from just a male POV, in heterosexual erotica?
There are at least two people involved, why not write from each viewpoint? Half a story may be better than none, but I prefer a complete story.
 
Or...


Write from a non-sexual third party point of view. Yes, yes, I understand that first person is more immersive, but to view all of the action, don't you need an objective camera so to speak?
 
BuckyDuckman said:
(Personally, I'm unsure how well a petite size 0 woman, with a mane of waist long blonde hair and a triple D cup size will do with swinging that massive Stihl MS 880 MAGNUM single stroke chainsaw with its 24" guide bar, but then again, I have a limited imagination.)
Click to expand...

Brilliant.
To see some detail of that, I fear you may need to look in DC comics or Marvel.
 
BuckyDuckman said:
I feel as if I write strokers disguised as stories. The sex motivates the change in the character (easy for me since I write about fringe, nearly fetish topics).

Curious if you'd classify such a story as "erotica" or "porn?" I keep flipping the same coin without resolution.
Click to expand...
I think we can recognize (if not define) written or visual pr0n by the amount of 'foreplay' seen. Erotica IMHO involves some degree of personal transformation, some character development, where pr0n is about fucking without consequence or change. What I consider my 'strokers' include transformation, like yours: "sex motivates the change in the character". I may gloss-over that change and just let it happen without examining it too closely, but it's there -- it's not just, "Hey babe, let's fuck!" with no redeeming qualities.
 
lovecraft68 said:
A woman's POV in romance or 'light erotica' might be 'safe'

But in group sex, BDSM, and especially non con....I don't think writing from a female POV is always safe.

In fact with the undercurrent of misogyny and loathing of women that run through sites like this I would say many times being a female lead is far from safe

But that's on sites like this, not off the shelves at B&N where Nora Roberts writes 'real erotica' and Shades of Grey is "BDSM"

Then again go see the movie....Anastasia was far from safe:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

What do you mean by safe? Do female POV stories invite nasty comments, or are they misinterpreted as being misogynistic if they involve BDSM? Just curious for future reference.

In both cases, if the law isn't knocking on my door they can eat a bag of dicks. I write what I want, and it often happens to involve dicks so my supply is plentiful.
 
Hypoxia said:
"Hey babe, let's fuck!" with no redeeming qualities.
Click to expand...

porn porn porn (Isn't pr0n a bit silly and anal attentive? If you're trying to hide from something on the Internet, this isn't going to do it.)

Whose job is it to say that "Hey babe, let's fuck!" has no redeeming qualities? :D

Maybe both parties want to fuck. Who appointed anyone to say they can't feel redeemed when they have fucked?

I don't expend even this much thought on the difference between the two, albeit some of it is distinguishable from some of the other, or what I have to be writing. I suspect I've got stories all over the board on this issue, and they were just the way I wanted to write them at that time--answering the call for the mood I wanted to set with them.
 
Zeb_Carter said:
Or...


Write from a non-sexual third party point of view. Yes, yes, I understand that first person is more immersive, but to view all of the action, don't you need an objective camera so to speak?
Click to expand...

The problem with a third person POV, is that the author loses the motivation of the participants.
 
sr71plt said:
Isn't pr0n a bit silly and anal attentive?
Click to expand...
Or preciously retro and sardonic. Mea culpa.

Whose job is it to say that "Hey babe, let's fuck!" has no redeeming qualities? :D
Click to expand...
Not what I said, notice? "Let's fuck!" can certainly work. But if the story revolves completely around "Let's fuck!" with not much in the way of preliminaries (foreplay), it may not qualify as deathless literature.

Maybe both parties want to fuck. Who appointed anyone to say they can't feel redeemed when they have fucked?
Click to expand...
Context, eh? Grow literature in the afterglow -- some of the transformation I mentioned earlier. Maybe into another species (she fucked the prince and turned into a frog).
 
R. Richard said:
The problem with a third person POV, is that the author loses the motivation of the participants.
Click to expand...
Not really. Third limited can put us inside certain heads; third omniscient allows us inside any head desired. What we lose in third-person is a personal I-witnessed-this narrative voice. And third-person MUST be trustworthy, while first-person can make up or omit all sorts of shit. A first-person who's fooled or fooling can be great fun to write. So can a third-person limited, but the tricks are more evident.
 
Ah, but where I think first person is good for erotica is that it can put the reader into a character's skin more easily and fully than third person can. It's the sensory part of erotica that is sensual. And doesn't erotica strive for the sensual?

I write in both, but when I'm going for intimacy, I find myself in first person.
 
jgdunn said:
What do you mean by safe? Do female POV stories invite nasty comments, or are they misinterpreted as being misogynistic if they involve BDSM? Just curious for future reference.

In both cases, if the law isn't knocking on my door they can eat a bag of dicks. I write what I want, and it often happens to involve dicks so my supply is plentiful.
Click to expand...

No, what I''m saying is safe to me means what it implies, "safe" the woman is experiencing garden variety romance or safe consensual sex.

You get into the rougher categories then you are writing female POV with the female pretty much being a 'victim' of something and I wouldn't consider it a safe approach because some readers can be squicked if they are experiencing being raped first hand through a female POV.

That's why a lot of non con I have seen is third person or from another POV, it takes the edge off.

But no one says you have to write safe, I'm giving you my interpretation of your question.
 
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