I'm baffled

Hear, hear!

oggbashan said:

It can be just as difficult to write 'dirty smut' well as it is to write 'literate erotica' QUOTE]

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Tio_Narratore said:

Back under Dubya's reign in Texas, the State went for "accountability" in education. Success was measured by multiple choice tests, and schools that scored high received bonus funding. The Principals generally used the bonus to buy software that would help boost their m-c grades even higher for more bonus money. But there was a price for it.

The Texas Board of Regents ended up complaining that the high school grads entering university were all very good at multiple choice; they could read a short story, and identify the plot from a list of five possibilities, but they were completely unable to write the plot in their own words.

The problem is, of course, more extensive, and I think this is what you're facing. Readers can pick the number of stars reflecting their view of the story, but are completely incapable of formulating a statement about it on their own.

You might try offering a list of possible comments for readers to select from to give you "substantive" feedback.

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One other item about Dubya's school testing thing. The company that sold either the test scoring machines, or made the tests themselves, was owned by, or at least partly owned by, one of Dubya's brothers, I think Neil.

Or so I've heard. Or maybe it was the 'every child left behind' program when he was prez/figurhead.

Either way someone in the family made money.

Boxlicker101 said:

I just write smut, and the dirtier it is, the better. Who needs plot and character establishment?

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Well, I do. On the other hand I'm not much of a Lit reader.

Low vote and comment percentages

I stumbled across this thread and was thinking about it. As someone who read stories on this site for years before writing anything, and seldom voted or commented, I have no expectations, but it is interesting that the vote and comment features, while available, are so seldom used. I did some calculations and figured that for the nine stories I've published so far the view to vote ratio is about 80:1 and the view to comment ratio is about 2,922:1. That means the vote to comment ratio is about 36 to 1.

I wonder if votes and comments could be boosted considerably if the website posted a heading recommending that readers vote and comment at the top of the page above the beginning of the story, or if the option was displayed in a more obvious way, in different or larger typeface or color. People respond to being prompted.

I don't have any beef about this, but it does seem like voting and commenting are features that the website makes available yet perhaps doesn't promote as much as it could. I would think that doing so would entice both readers and authors.

I'm happy with the fanbase I have built with my stories. I might have 50 people following me, but the people that comment on my stories tend to comment on each chapter for the most part.
A few things I use to draw people in were: a strong story plot rooted in real life experiences, believable/relateable characters that evolve, an occasional cliffhanger, and a bad guy people love to hate. These things tend to generate comments and positive feedback rather well for me.
Now, it might not be oodles and oodles of comments, but 3-5 comments per chapter is a blessing I won't turn downKant

Our comment percentages range from 0.03% to 0.21% or 3 - 21 in 10000. Average is around 0.08% and the 0.21% is on the currently last chapter of a story to be continued. Most of those posts are "When will the next chapter be up?" related.

-MM

Nothing has changed for me in the months since I posted the question, except maybe my attitude. I post here for feedback. There is no monetary gain, so what else is there? If I were just writing for myself then there wouldn't be any reason to post a story.

I tend not to get many comments.

Of the comments that I do get, about 50% are from a small handful of ‘fans’. Although I pretty much write for myself, I enjoy the fan comments because they tell me that someone else also got some pleasure from my efforts. I like that.

Another 40% of the comments are from readers saying: ‘Yep. That was a great start. Now we need another 10 or 12 chapters.’ Given that I usually write stand-alone stories, these comments are not so satisfying. But at least the reader seemed to enjoy what they got.

And, finally, there is the one-in-ten comment that leaves me wondering if the commenter actually read the story.

To date, I don’t think that I have ever received a comment for which I would have paid good ‘tutorial’ money.

SimonDoom said:

I wonder if votes and comments could be boosted considerably.

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You've said you were one of the many readers who didn't vote or comment. Would being asked to have changed that?

My belief is that readers have lots of good reasons not to comment:

1. Fear of leaving an identifying trail. When Lit someday gets hacked, comments and votes (and of course stories) will oftentimes be traceable to email addresses and presumably IP addresses. People probably believe if they leave no footprints here they can't be discovered.

2. Fear of appearing attention-seeking, which many females in particular dislike. This is probably the primary reason.

3. Fear of appearing stupid. You have to say something in a comment, after all, and public comments can get judged by others.

4. Unwillingness to mess up a post-orgasmic glow by trying to type something coherent. The other point of having an intense orgasm is that afterwards you can enjoy a brain that's unconcerned with things like grammar and logic.

I don't think encouraging comments really addresses any of those points, and asking for feedback might put people off because it feels like an obligation, or worse, a trap (do they want my personal information for something?)

Let's face it, a lot of the readership is married women getting thrills from something they don't want anyone, especially their partners, to know about. Some of the rest is underage readers. Not exactly much incentive to comment, there. Although I do wonder what would happen if the site linked to a separate Anonymous Confessions site that was convincingly anonymous...

HandsInTheDark said:

Let's face it, a lot of the readership is married women getting thrills from something they don't want anyone, especially their partners, to know about. Some of the rest is underage readers. Not exactly much incentive to comment, there. Although I do wonder what would happen if the site linked to a separate Anonymous Confessions site that was convincingly anonymous...

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In your opinion should be added here because none of us know who the countless people reading here are and what their situation is.

I agree married people or people with SO's who aren't into their kink or porn at all come here to enjoy vicariously, but I'd hazard to say as many are male as female-check the fetish forum and personals. Just as many men as women there lamenting of how their SO Just isn't into it.

But I understand when someone is homophobic and/or thinks they're the shit with women, you only want to think its women reading.

As for underage, you have a well established history of posting about all the under aged readers here to the point one thread was erased. I thought you'd learned that lesson.

HandsInTheDark said:

You've said you were one of the many readers who didn't vote or comment. Would being asked to have changed that?

.

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Very good question. I think it would have, because most of the time I didn't even notice the vote and comment prompts. My eyes glided right over them. Had they been more prominent I think I would have commented or voted more often.

It's the same principle as any form of advertising or marketing. Get it in front of people's eyes and they will respond. I agree with all your reasons that people might not respond, but featuring these prompts in a more distinctive way probably would have some effect.

Favorite story listings are replacing comments. It's been happening ever since the favorite story feature was put in place.

When the feature first came out, there were few favorites, and the comments numbers were where they'd been since I started. The first one I have tracked with favorites is 974 comments vs. 160 favorites in 2010.

2011 - 1239 C vs. 376 F
2012 - 1636 C vs. 996 F
2013 - 1926 C vs. 1638 F
2014 - 2104 C vs. 2721 F
2015 - 2218 C vs. 3639 F

http://darkniciad.com/hotlink_pics/lit_stats_home.htm

Once the favorites feature really took off in 2012, it exploded, and the comments dropped off proportionally.

The biggest part of comments ( outside the controversial categories and a few categories where readers are as engaged with stories as the sex ) are "Great Story!" or "Loved it!"

Not much to that comment, and the people writing them know that. However, there's the favorite button. That provides the same simple feedback that you enjoyed the story without straining your brain to explain why. It also bookmarks it so you can come back and read it again.

Most of my comments on my stories came from posting a thread with a link to my stories in the "Story Feedback" category. For the most part, I feel like that section of the site actually draws the people who would normally post a comment on a story. Okay, I'm probably wrong in my assumption, but it's quite an interesting viewpoint to note when people that frequent the thread I posted also read and comment on my stories. (Insert Twilght Zone theme music here)
Kant

Another note: I've also noticed a few author's in the Author's Hangout are also willing to read another author's work and leave a comment. I know I do it when asked. It's common courtesy among authors in my opinion.

Comments when I allowed them, were simply requests or demands that the story continue, "NEXT!"

I've started adding a note at the end of my stories along these lines. There's usually a bit more than this coz some of its around the story itself, and I reword it from story to story.

"....okay, unlike books you pay for, this story is free. As the author, the only reward I get for writing these and putting them up here is knowing whether or not you enjoyed them, how good (or bad) you thought they were and any feedback you care to share or comments you make. Getting to the point, even Loving Wives stories need ratings – and </i><b>this story needs your Ratings!!!! So I do have one and only one request – see those rating stars below? Pick one for this story and hit it. That’s all I ask.</b><i> Those ratings and comments are my food - and if you enjoyed this and want more, well, feed me, she says with a happy smile..."

Seems to have had a result over the last few stories coz before I started doing this I was generally getting around the average 1 vote per 100 views give or take a bit

Fingerprints - 74k views with 1260 votes (1 vote per 60 views) and 51 comments (a couple mine)
Wolf with the Red Roses - 29k views with 538 votes (1 vote per 54 views) and 44 comments
Teddy Bear - 49k views with 1265 votes (1 vote per 40 views) and 64 comments

But I'm not sure coz the two or three stories before these are around 150 views per vote so it's only these last three where the votes per view has picked up and those last three were all in competitions. Hmmmm. Still, not wasting more time pondering the imponderable here.

HandsInTheDark said:

You've said you were one of the many readers who didn't vote or comment. Would being asked to have changed that?

My belief is that readers have lots of good reasons not to comment:

1. Fear of leaving an identifying trail. When Lit someday gets hacked, comments and votes (and of course stories) will oftentimes be traceable to email addresses and presumably IP addresses. People probably believe if they leave no footprints here they can't be discovered.

2. Fear of appearing attention-seeking, which many females in particular dislike. This is probably the primary reason.

3. Fear of appearing stupid. You have to say something in a comment, after all, and public comments can get judged by others.

4. Unwillingness to mess up a post-orgasmic glow by trying to type something coherent. The other point of having an intense orgasm is that afterwards you can enjoy a brain that's unconcerned with things like grammar and logic.

I don't think encouraging comments really addresses any of those points, and asking for feedback might put people off because it feels like an obligation, or worse, a trap (do they want my personal information for something?)

Let's face it, a lot of the readership is married women getting thrills from something they don't want anyone, especially their partners, to know about. Some of the rest is underage readers. Not exactly much incentive to comment, there. Although I do wonder what would happen if the site linked to a separate Anonymous Confessions site that was convincingly anonymous...

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No one wants any grief from tender skinned writers. 9 years ago I told LOVECRAFT his story sucked amd he still hates me.

You cant be trusted to take it like a man.

NOIRTRASH said:

No one wants any grief from tender skinned writers. 9 years ago I told LOVECRAFT his story sucked amd he still hates me.

You cant be trusted to take it like a man.

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I'll NEVER take it like a man. LOL. Be nasty to me and I'll cry like a girl. (Chloe sobs dramatically for effect, opening one eye marginally to see if its working).

No? Oh well, worth a try.

Now, what to try next...... hmmmmm

Reply and comments

I don't believe that you could define a typical literotica reader,too much variety in age, taste, sex preference, education ect.. sometimes they are so infuriating I'll throw in a comment on the comments just to remind people that this is a free website and being a dumbass may be a god given right but it doesn't exactly endear you to others. The comments question is relatively easy, not every reader has an opinion or is willing to share it. Not every reader has the capability, I personally lived in an area without access for about six months and could drive to town to download for reading later but it was not reasonable to even vote. Timing is everything the authors are usually posting once a week, biweekly, monthly, and yes I have seen it dribble down to once every six months. On the reader side it can be about the same so what's the point of commentary on a chapter that's a couple weeks or months or years old. I'LL say it straight up alot of the stories published here disgust me, my response is to not read them, but searching thru all the dirt occasionally turns up that gem that just makes my day. My inclination is to see literotica as a springboard, I don't know how many authors use the site as a proving ground but I do know that if you go to Amazon and look up Elliott Kay, D.R. Rosier or Lord Anubis you will find some very familiar works. And those are just a few in my limited taste so I'm sure that many more exist in areas that I don't follow. Without a doubt many more could publish or maybe they did and I just can't find them.

sr71plt said:

What baffles me is authors expecting they're going to get many comments at all on a sex reading site that puts no pressure on a reader to provide reaction. This baffling thought that there should be more comments--often expressed like it was a right for the author to get comments if the story is opened--just goes on and on over the years without producing more comments and or the acceptance that comments are going to be rare on a Web site set up as Literotica is.

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Somehow, I missed this thread the first time around. But I suspect that Pilot is right.

I get the odd positive comment from my small coterie of 'fans'. And I get the very occasional - and very odd - comment from the haters. But really ... why should any of them bother? I've never written to Graham Greene or Harold Pinter or Saul Bellow or Kurt Vonnegut.

I get a fair amount of comments, because I've only posted in one of the more kind categories in that regard. The typical good work, can't wait for the next bit and loved it, an occasional suspicious you're def in the top three of this entire site sorta comment, and loads of don't worry about the quality it's fine and post more quickly kind of ones in response to the author notes I included in my last couple chapters. Those kind of comments are like ratings--they're nice, I guess, but they don't do much more for me.

But once every couple months, I get a reader who sits down and writes me quite a bit, usually through the email feature. Sometimes they share personal experiences they've had that were similar to the situations in my story, sometimes it's a gushing letter about what they loved and why or how immersed they were or drawn in they found themselves.

I've actually made friends, internet friends sure, but friends all the same with a few people who offer to proofread for me, that are incredibly enthusiastic about my story, and always keeping in touch. Once I was told a reader got unexpectedly hooked into my story while on a work conference trip, and that he had to retreat to his hotel room to finish the story because he just couldn't put it down. Another reader actually sent me fanfiction of what he wanted to see happen with the characters next, which was pretty surreal. I mean, I haven't been on Lit for very long at all. I stick to a small category, and doubt I'll ever be Lit-famous or widely known or anything no matter how much or how long I write.

I'm pretty sure all of those big, in-depth responses are why I'll never be able to stop writing now. I get the bad comments and emails too, sure, but they're easy to brush off, and there's less and less of them since my only project is a multi-part story and the dissatisfied won't keep reading past the chapters they don't like.

Boxlicker101 said:

I just write smut, and the dirtier it is, the better. Who needs plot and character establishment?

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This may come as a bit of a surprise to those who may agree with your view, but I rather think that there are many more who maybe look for 'Literature' (as in a well-told story) with erotic content rather than the simple one-page stroker (some of which are more of a record of 'doings' rather than a story). But 'whatever floats your particular boat'.

oggbashan said:

A large number of Literotica readers apparently don't. But some do.

A good erotic story is one that works for the reader. What might work for one will repel another.

I don't see that as a value judgement that one style of story is better than another. They just work for different audiences.

It can be just as difficult to write 'dirty smut' well as it is to write 'literate erotica' and both can be excellent, good, bad or uninspiring of their type. But saying that one is 'better' than another could be as pointless as comparing bananas and potatoes - both are useful and nutritious and the same person might like potatoes now and bananas later.

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Nicely put, Ogg.

Part of it could be a technical thing. I've only been reading stories here for about six months, most of that is done on my iPhone. When I open a story the first thing I do is hit the "reader mode" button on the phone. Once I'm done reading I close the story and move on, never seeing a way to rate or leave a comment. After finding these forums I began to remind myself to rate stories. It's a pain in the ass to exit reader mode and scroll through the entire story again to get to the rate buttons. I don't think there is a way to leave a comment via the iPhone portal version of Lit.

Not saying this to complain. Only to share one newbie's experience with how rating and commenting can be easily overlooked.

I'm responding as a reader; I don't have any stories posted on this site

Boxlicker101 said:

I just write smut, and the dirtier it is, the better. Who needs plot and character establishment?

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Generally, readers not interested in a plot or some character development are only seeking one type of pleasure. Who needs to leave a comment for that?

Tio_Narratore said:

The problem is, of course, more extensive, and I think this is what you're facing. Readers can pick the number of stars reflecting their view of the story, but are completely incapable of formulating a statement about it on their own.

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Although your suggestion may have been facetious, the premise is fairly accurate. Many times people don't even know why they liked a story...just that the did. Also, they're readers, not writers...and they find it difficult to articulate a response.

TxRad said:

You want comments? Give the reader something to comment on. Sounds simple but it ain't.

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Exactly this. I NEVER leave negative feedback. If the story wasn't written well I usually don't even finish reading it. If the content just wasn't to my taste, my opinion means absolutely nothing...other people may really enjoy it. I only comment when I think there was something remarkable about it and I think the writer deserves to know their work stood out in some way.

NotWise said:

I value views more than anything else, but voting is an indication as well. In this case and in one earlier case, votes showed that some of the readers didn't like my story and were motivated to vote "meh" or less. I'd like some clue about what aspect of the story they didn't like, but for the most part I'm getting a blank stare from the readers. That means that my efforts are wasted.

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Your efforts are never wasted. If your story resonated with one person..that's successful. If not, you gained experience.

NotWise said:

Nothing has changed for me in the months since I posted the question, except maybe my attitude. I post here for feedback. There is no monetary gain, so what else is there? If I were just writing for myself then there wouldn't be any reason to post a story.

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You should be writing for yourself...because you enjoy it...for personal satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment...an outlet for your creativity and a tool for growth. (And if you've already put forth the effort to write it, why not share it?) If you are only writing to gain recognition or praise, you will continue to be disappointed.

There are a lot of other reasons readers don't leave comments, including:

They are simply too lazy to take the time.
They don't want anyone to know they enjoyed something kinky or taboo. (Some authors don't allow anonymous reviews.)
They're not sure the author even cares what they think...that their opinion doesn't matter.
Or they didn't have a reaction, good or bad.

NotWise said:

Nothing has changed for me in the months since I posted the question, except maybe my attitude. I post here for feedback. There is no monetary gain, so what else is there? If I were just writing for myself then there wouldn't be any reason to post a story.

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I'm pretty much in agreement.

My one best friend reads everything I write, sometimes as I write it and will sometimes offer suggestions, but other than that I have no one to give me feedback!

My comments are pretty much non existent. Some stories have a lot I think, one has seven and another has eight, but then the others have like three and one story has none.

But for the most part they are all favorable comments. I have had a couple deleted,not by me so I guess Laurel deletes some? I think I did delete one but it was complete nonsense, at least to me, just some random letters, acronyms maybe, but made no sense to me
So I guess I shouldn't complain, kind of like no news is good news?

CoffeeWithMonkeys said:

I'm pretty much in agreement.

My one best friend reads everything I write, sometimes as I write it and will sometimes offer suggestions, but other than that I have no one to give me feedback!

My comments are pretty much non existent. Some stories have a lot I think, one has seven and another has eight, but then the others have like three and one story has none.

But for the most part they are all favorable comments. I have had a couple deleted,not by me so I guess Laurel deletes some? I think I did delete one but it was complete nonsense, at least to me, just some random letters, acronyms maybe, but made no sense to me
So I guess I shouldn't complain, kind of like no news is good news?

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I just went and read The Intruder, and, speaking for myself alone, I would hesitate to say anything even mildly critical to someone who comes off as sweet as you do.