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How to handle switching points of view in a story

electricblue66 said:
"Give it a whirl, Simon, you'll be fine." Suzie shifted lazily on the couch, her skirt riding up.

* * * *

"Simon, can you take a cup of tea out to Voboy? I think he's lonely out there, without any friends." Simon's mom looked out from the kitchen, her eyes shining for her favourite boy. Gosh, he's handsome and brave, she thought, trying out a new writing style. She wondered who this other woman was, the hussy.


There, what's hard about that?


Both Suzie and Mom looked up ;).
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The first thing they saw was the squad of four penguins, recently washed up on the tempestuous Victorian shore, now waddling menacingly toward Suzie and Mom in their black and white-feathered finery.

The penguin leader held Mom's and Suzie's startled gaze.

These humans are so easy, he thought. He pressed the button on the remote in his flipper. A whoosh and a thunk sounded in the dark overhead.

The drop bears descended from above. Suzie and mom looked up, startled, but not fast enough to respond.

Then the screams began.

x x x

Omniscient perspective doesn't have to be limited to humans.
 
SimonDoom said:
The first thing they saw was the squad of four penguins, recently washed up on the tempestuous Victorian shore, now waddling menacingly toward Suzie and Mom in their black and white-feathered finery.
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I'm confused. Why were Mom and Suzie wearing black and white-feathered finery? Their POV hasn't been told.
 
Voboy said:
Y'all need to relax.

I get to have an opinion, too. And yes. Switching POV is without question the path of least resistance here. It takes no effort other than a few asterisks. Summoning up the wherewithal to do multi-POV exposition without resorting to a switcheroo? That takes greater skill, I feel.

Personally, I felt my last paragraph was of greater value. But YMMV. Go ahead and do as you feel led, OP, and if you're going to take offense, then why ask? Sycophancy seldom leads to illumination.
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Using a "switcheroo" was only one of the options under discussion, but you slammed everyone who uses any form of multiple POV.

I have no idea where you see any sycophancy in this thread.
 
MelissaBaby said:
I have no idea where you see any sycophancy in this thread.
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"Yes! Great idea! Do multiples!"

Most responses featured a riveting debate about whether to use five asterisks, or simply three.

Simon asked for "thoughts." I happily gave mine. You're certainly welcome to disagree, but try to do so on the merits. To wit: using one POV and providing exposition through good, believable dialogue is a greater challenge than merely switching to another POV.

No worries. I have no doubt Simon has gotten my "thoughts" by now, which was all I was really trying to do. I wish him luck on his new work, genuinely.
 
Voboy said:
"Yes! Great idea! Do multiples!"

Most responses featured a riveting debate about whether to use five asterisks, or simply three.

Simon asked for "thoughts." I happily gave mine. You're certainly welcome to disagree, but try to do so on the merits. To wit: using one POV and providing exposition through good, believable dialogue is a greater challenge than merely switching to another POV.

No worries. I have no doubt Simon has gotten my "thoughts" by now, which was all I was really trying to do. I wish him luck on his new work, genuinely.
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Ah, I see. You get to have an opinion, but anyone who voices support for a differing opinion is a sycophant.

using one POV and providing exposition through good, believable dialogue is a greater challenge than merely switching to another POV.
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I may be in error, I thought that Simon was just trying to write a good story, and was seeking some advice on alternative techniques. I didn't realize it was a challenge. Is there a prize involved?
 
Voboy said:
"Yes! Great idea! Do multiples!"

Most responses featured a riveting debate about whether to use five asterisks, or simply three.

Simon asked for "thoughts." I happily gave mine. You're certainly welcome to disagree, but try to do so on the merits. To wit: using one POV and providing exposition through good, believable dialogue is a greater challenge than merely switching to another POV.

No worries. I have no doubt Simon has gotten my "thoughts" by now, which was all I was really trying to do. I wish him luck on his new work, genuinely.
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I think you got people's dander up when you described the multiple-POV approach as "lazy." I can understand thinking it's not the best way to do it, in a short story, but calling it "lazy" seems a stretch.

I'm genuinely torn. I'm inclining toward a third person limited from the woman's point of view, with the man's POV revealed through dialogue, as Notwise suggests, but I think there are other (nonlazy) ways to do it, too. All this talk has got me rethinking exactly what story I want to tell and it's delaying my writing. But that's nothing new.
 
SimonDoom said:
I think you got people's dander up when you described the multiple-POV approach as "lazy." I can understand thinking it's not the best way to do it, in a short story, but calling it "lazy" seems a stretch.

I'm genuinely torn. I'm inclining toward a third person limited from the woman's point of view, with the man's POV revealed through dialogue, as Notwise suggests, but I think there are other (nonlazy) ways to do it, too. All this talk has got me rethinking exactly what story I want to tell and it's delaying my writing. But that's nothing new.
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I would incline toward dialogue. But then, I enjoy writing dialogue, to a fault.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of overthinking. If it's not flowing, there might be a reason. The story probably wants to be told in a certain way.
 
SimonDoom said:
I'm genuinely torn. I'm inclining toward a third person limited from the woman's point of view, with the man's POV revealed through dialogue, as Notwise suggests, but I think there are other (nonlazy) ways to do it, too. All this talk has got me rethinking exactly what story I want to tell and it's delaying my writing. But that's nothing new.
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Is there something in the story that needs multiple POV's?

For instance, if you have two rival characters or characters in a dysfunctional relationship, then using two POV's can build the conflict between them. Probably that story won't be resolved until they confront each other over the differences. Is that the plan?

If you aren't using multiple POV's to create a conflict, then what are you using it for? If you want to use it as a story-telling tool, then there are probably better ways to tell the story. Using multiple POV's probably means that you've missed the opportunity to build more complex characters through dialogue.

And if your characters don't see things differently, then why?
 
SimonDoom said:
I'm genuinely torn. I'm inclining toward a third person limited from the woman's point of view, with the man's POV revealed through dialogue, as Notwise suggests, but I think there are other (nonlazy) ways to do it, too. All this talk has got me rethinking exactly what story I want to tell and it's delaying my writing. But that's nothing new.
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Why don't you just start with one pov and see how far you get? You might find you don't need/want to change pov, once you get a wriggle on.

See, this is what happens when you guys plot and scheme and figure out character arcs and stuff before you even start writing.

This dilemma never happens to me with my "write till I stop technique." I've lost count of the number of times a brand new character just arrives in one of my stories and takes the line, "My point of view or I'm out of here, oh my writer person." It's so much easier when they're spirited women who insist on getting written.

But, the "p" word seems to be rearing its ugly head again - just start writing, you lazy bastard :).
 
electricblue66 said:
Why don't you just start with one pov and see how far you get? You might find you don't need/want to change pov, once you get a wriggle on.

See, this is what happens when you guys plot and scheme and figure out character arcs and stuff before you even start writing.

This dilemma never happens to me with my "write till I stop technique." I've lost count of the number of times a brand new character just arrives in one of my stories and takes the line, "My point of view or I'm out of here, oh my writer person." It's so much easier when they're spirited women who insist on getting written.

But, the "p" word seems to be rearing its ugly head again - just start writing, you lazy bastard :).
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Good advice, this.
 
There's a lot of smart-assery in this thread, but lots of really good advice, too. I appreciate all the input.

Re EB's comment: I did start the story, and I wrote about a thousand words, up to the point where I was wondering whether to continue the woman's perspective or start a new chapter from the man's perspective. That prompted me to start this thread.

I like Notwise's advice, and I'm going to try writing the story that way. 3d person limited from the woman's POV, with the man's POV revealed through dialogue. If I don't like it when I'm done I'll change it, but I'm going to give it a go.
 
NotWise said:
The "P" word? As in "Those who can, do. Those who can't, plan?"
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Simon's most dreaded p word, after penguin, is procrastinate. We all do it, some of us just disguise it better. I, for example, have one of my "secondary projects" bubbling up demanding to be written, whilst a sequel is slow getting to a weird alien sexual encounter. My self-imposed limit is only two on the go at one time, so both are likely to get written some time soon. He says, optimistically.
 
SimonDoom said:
Re EB's comment: I did start the story, and I wrote about a thousand words, up to the point where I was wondering whether to continue the woman's perspective or start a new chapter from the man's perspective. That prompted me to start this thread.
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A thousand words isn't many, though, is it? Barely enough to give her a personality, I'd have thought. Maybe the bloke could pass the time doing crosswords in a cafe. That's what my blokes seem to do, whilst they're waiting for the woman to mess with their souls.
 
Switching POV is tricky. I personally don't care for the **** or subheadings of X or Y . Actual chapter headings in a novel are ok .

Sometimes you want to get inside of more than one character's head, but not get into everyone's head. I do it by trying to make it clear whose head you are in. I do it by having the POV character reflect on the dialog or lead a paragraph with "Jessica thought to herself..", and so on

I move from mother to daughter POV in Mom and Daughter Face Penal Slavery

https://www.literotica.com/s/mom-and-daughter-face-penal-slavery

You can judge how well I pulled it off
 
Voboy said:
I would incline toward dialogue. But then, I enjoy writing dialogue, to a fault...
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eroticstoryspinner said:
Switching POV is tricky. I personally don't care for the **** or subheadings of X or Y . Actual chapter headings in a novel are ok .

Sometimes you want to get inside of more than one character's head, but not get into everyone's head. I do it by trying to make it clear whose head you are in. I do it by having the POV character reflect on the dialog or lead a paragraph with "Jessica thought to herself..", and so on ...
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This is both the difference and the reason to switch POV. Dialogue is obviously a major part of any story. But, real human lives are not made up of just talking. We have thoughts and emotions that no amount of written dialogue can portray.

A person does not always say out loud to either an empty room or another person precisely what they are thinking/feeling. And yet, these are the most important elements in my stories. The little doubts, the euphoric highs are inside. If the story has more than one character, it also has more than one interior world to explore.

Third Person Omniscient is one tool to do this. But so too is First Person. Both can tread into 'head-hopping', but both can also be managed.

I won't go so far as to say one is good and one is bad, it depends on the type of story one wants to send out into the world...what is the message I'm peddling with this one, and what's my best platform?... etc.
 
SimonDoom said:
Yes, third person omniscient is when the narrator can narrate what's going on in everyone's head. The distinction between that and third person limited can be unclear where the story alternates between one person's POV for a while and the others. Usually, when omniscient is used, the narrator doesn't simply skip willy nilly from one person's POV to the others, because that's harder on the reader.

I definitely am not going to use first person. I don't like switching back and forth in first person. The question is whether to tell the story from one person's perspective or both in third person.

The story starts with the woman in an embarrassing and vulnerable situation. Then the man finds her and wants to help her. Things begin to heat up between them, but there's resistance and reluctance on both parts. Finally they overcome resistance, and, well, you know.

I think Notwise might have the right idea. Tell it from the woman's point of view and reveal the man's point of view through dialogue between the two of them.

I realize it's difficult to give advice on something like this in the abstract an on limited information, but I was particularly interested in whether anyone had examples in which they thought the switching back and forth was handled in a particularly adept way.
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No problem.
 
Late to the party, but Diana Gabaldon effectively toggles between first person (for her protagonist, Claire) and third person for all other characters. It has seen her through 8 bestsellers.
For the record, not one of her books contains a penguin. I never saw that as a deficiency until this thread.
 
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