It's so hypocritical. The most dangerous substances, by exponential proportions, are the legal substances.
The Politics of Pot!
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BotanyBoy
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What does that insane bullshit even mean?
It's the exact same plant you had in the 70's.
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I am FAR from an expert, but today's pot IS different.
Forgive me if I go off topic, but I prefer cannabis to alcohol. The high is so much better. The effect of alcohol is universally depressing. Pot alters consciousness in a good way. We use it to enhance our sexual interaction and it works great. We use edibles. We never have a hangover.We can modify the dose for whaterver we want. I resent the goverment telling me what I can and cannot place in my body as long as I don't hurt anyone else.
BotanyBoy
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How do you figure?
I think maybe you see the effects of war on drugs driven cultivation tech + information increasing the prevalence of decent gardeners able to maximize a plants flowering potential. Better gardeners armed with more knowledge and tech than ever before = larger volumes of better quality.
That being said I've seen no empirical evidence of any kind to suggest that any cannabis species/hybrids under current cultivation is actually a different plant from anything of yester year. Wild plants crush THC tests all the time. I had a highland Thai that tested at 27.8% THC right out of the jungle.
Chris_Michael
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The DEA is funny, if you think about it. Their standards for what is a controlled substance is based on two things. First, does the drug have any therapeutic use. Secondly, how addictive is the drug and what is the risk of abuse.
The funny part is that all these SSRIs and SNRIs (antidepressants) like Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Lexapro, Cymbalta, Effexor, Viibrid, etc., are considered safe and effective while Xanax, marijuana, and other drugs that cause euphoria are considered dangerous.
Have you ever missed a dose of Xanax? Have you ever missed a dose of marijuana, for those who use it regularly? If you have, you'd know that all that happens is that you feel irritable, jittery, or you may not have any problems at all. Personally, I've been on Xanax for 10-12 years and I get muscle twitches and irritability but that's only after 24-48 hours without the drug.
Now, have you ever missed a dose of Effexor? It's not lethal, but you will want to die. Coming off of Effexor is hell. I will grant you that benzo withdrawal lowers the seizure threshold and can possibly be lethal. However, there is no worse drug than alcohol when it comes to withdrawal. Coming off of it, patients need benzos just to help with the shaking (which is a sign to be wary of btw).
I don't think today's antidepressants are effective. Well, I should say in general. There are people who really do benefit from SSRIs/SNRIs. But even still, Big Pharma is pushing out copycat after copycat and branding all these antidepressants, making them seem like silver bullets when they don't do shit.
Xanax has some REALLY BAD downsides if taken long term. I personally am willing to live with it because I would literally kill myself without it.
The funny part is that all these SSRIs and SNRIs (antidepressants) like Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Lexapro, Cymbalta, Effexor, Viibrid, etc., are considered safe and effective while Xanax, marijuana, and other drugs that cause euphoria are considered dangerous.
Have you ever missed a dose of Xanax? Have you ever missed a dose of marijuana, for those who use it regularly? If you have, you'd know that all that happens is that you feel irritable, jittery, or you may not have any problems at all. Personally, I've been on Xanax for 10-12 years and I get muscle twitches and irritability but that's only after 24-48 hours without the drug.
Now, have you ever missed a dose of Effexor? It's not lethal, but you will want to die. Coming off of Effexor is hell. I will grant you that benzo withdrawal lowers the seizure threshold and can possibly be lethal. However, there is no worse drug than alcohol when it comes to withdrawal. Coming off of it, patients need benzos just to help with the shaking (which is a sign to be wary of btw).
I don't think today's antidepressants are effective. Well, I should say in general. There are people who really do benefit from SSRIs/SNRIs. But even still, Big Pharma is pushing out copycat after copycat and branding all these antidepressants, making them seem like silver bullets when they don't do shit.
Xanax has some REALLY BAD downsides if taken long term. I personally am willing to live with it because I would literally kill myself without it.
Hard_Rom
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Back in the 70s, NA pot was sativa. Rarely did the Asian indica strain make an appearance. And was typically grown out doors. Everyone from the 70s remember cleaning seeds out with a card an album cover.
We had homegrown (shit), Mexican (meh) and Colombian (good). This was before the Colombians really caught on to the fact, if you can get a shipload of pot into a country you can get a shipload of coke and really turn a dime. Mexican fields were sprayed from the air with Paraquat. So the rumour was up here. That killed Mexican for us.
Then hybrids came out. The previous indica was I believe typically what we called 'Thai stick'. Our homegrown now had potential to have some kick. The Vietnamese gangs pioneered grow ops and the move to hydro over soil.
100 watts on a 10" pot of good soil will suffice to grow a plant.
Now we have hybrid strains. Hybrids usually are stronger than both parents genetically. Now much is grown indoors, hydroponically. I am luck to find a seed in a bag.
70s sativa was typically 7%. +20% is easily available illegally now. What's grown on edge of woodlots and fields around here by locals can be +15%.
Death to males!
Was criminal became a subculture, now passing into hippy chic, soon to be retailed at you local government operated pot shop.
At least you won't get folk being jailed for a joint. I understand there are some backward arsed places in the world that can happen.
South facing small urban backyards make nice micro-climate areas.
We had homegrown (shit), Mexican (meh) and Colombian (good). This was before the Colombians really caught on to the fact, if you can get a shipload of pot into a country you can get a shipload of coke and really turn a dime. Mexican fields were sprayed from the air with Paraquat. So the rumour was up here. That killed Mexican for us.
Then hybrids came out. The previous indica was I believe typically what we called 'Thai stick'. Our homegrown now had potential to have some kick. The Vietnamese gangs pioneered grow ops and the move to hydro over soil.
100 watts on a 10" pot of good soil will suffice to grow a plant.
Now we have hybrid strains. Hybrids usually are stronger than both parents genetically. Now much is grown indoors, hydroponically. I am luck to find a seed in a bag.
70s sativa was typically 7%. +20% is easily available illegally now. What's grown on edge of woodlots and fields around here by locals can be +15%.
Death to males!
Was criminal became a subculture, now passing into hippy chic, soon to be retailed at you local government operated pot shop.
At least you won't get folk being jailed for a joint. I understand there are some backward arsed places in the world that can happen.
South facing small urban backyards make nice micro-climate areas.
BotanyBoy
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Hybrids have been around for a very long time.
Like thousands of years long time. Yunnan China has some of the oldest hybrids on the planet.
Thai stick is a pure sativa, I've never even heard of a Thai indica.
Indicas usually come from high elevation or northern latitudes.
LOL...400 watts HPS minimum if you want any hope of a decent end result.
No, they aren't. They are just more uniformly potent but only in the F1 offspring or an actual stabilized strain that is usually an F9-F12, typically inbred.
Only because bad growers, +20% wild plants are very common if you can garden worth a shit.
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JackLuis
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Stephen King should be thrilled . . . and weeping, because as a recovering alkie he don't dare smoke it.
JackLuis
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BotanyBoy
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JackLuis
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Colorado’s monthly pot sales are getting even higher
Pretty soon Monsanto is going to make a move to patent all the good strains!
Pretty soon Monsanto is going to make a move to patent all the good strains!
badbabysitter
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BotanyBoy
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On the planet where government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services is called socialism and = leftism.
Can you articulate exactly what it is about the Nazis that makes them right wing?
Because they check all the boxes on uber government, iron fisted socialist control freaks and last I checked.....government control = left.
Nationalism/expansionism? Maybe...but those aren't really distinctly RW.
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just4friends
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Wtf.... describe something more right wing than Nazis
Communism... people's rule... never ends up there
Keep in mind there are still people that remember the F'ing Nazis
Communism... people's rule... never ends up there
Keep in mind there are still people that remember the F'ing Nazis
badbabysitter
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Very true, but since that wasnt the case with Nazi Germany I dont see how that's relevant. There were multiple companies and businesses that were not in bed with the government and they did fine.
Also, the government in of itself produced nothing, their business partners the corporations did.. the government bought the products the businesses sold them. In return, the government gave them dibs on pretty much anything... translation, the government let corporations do as they would in return for profit.. in fact corporations had a pretty free hand in law making
That's capitalism at its worst extreme.. not socialism
That can be literally be said about any government in all of human history, both right and left. One thing that both right and left have in common at extremes is control over the population
What makes nazism particularly right wing in this regard? From the top of my head that would include
..the banning of labor unions
... the imprisonment and/or execution of all left wing leaders including the lefties that were on the nazi train before they officially seized control.. Night of Long Knives ring any bells?
.. the banning of abortion and sex education
...nativistic behavious, ie, seeing non germans as non people
...hierarchal society based on money and hegemony, aka "wealth creators, " true" germans, anything outside of that is suspect
...citizenship and immigration restrictions...German national identity was paramount, jews , muslims, romani were dangerous enemies and werent allowed to move into germany.. i mean totttttallly unlike certain travel bans, amirite
.. not to mention what happened to these enemies of the state including their own citizens
I find it strange that I have to give this explanation to anyone, aren't high school kids supposed to know this shit?
BotanyBoy
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It's relevant because that was the case.
They went corporatism over communism but they still had an iron fist around their economy among other things.
Corporatism, another flavor of socialism, not at all capitalism.
That is where we disagree. Government control over the population is left, communism, fascism etc.....and the extreme RW is where you find your anarchist, no government control, war/drug lords, pirates, barbarians etc.
You didn't explain what made nazi's right wing, just their flavor of iron fisted control is slightly different than 'real' leftist.
If you think that makes them right wing then ok.
I argue that makes them just a nationalist/corporate flavored socialist and that the right wing is not the uber government crowd you disagree with, but the anti-government crowd that you also disagree with. The uber government crowd you disagree with are OTHER lefties.
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badbabysitter
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Ummm...if they went corporatism they went a meritocracy based system.. which is right leaning
literally not one word in that sentence fit together.. an organization built on meritocracy and profit.. is socialist?
there is literally nothing in the world to support that theory.. the universally held understanding of right wing is a society of elites controlling all those under them, the left wing on the other hand at its extreme is the destruction of the identity
and with the exception of religon, the USSR had none of the aforementioned things in common
since the destruction of the identity was a goal, one universal self, I would say not
not really subtle at all, even if we removed Nazi from left equations... we would have to include theocracies, empires and republics.. Peter the great butchered soooo many, the Romans literally burnt cities to the ground and salted the earth so nothing could grow there again
and even if there was a higher body count, still doesnt change the fact the the Nazis were right wing
I did, you said " they were the same" when they literally shared only one thing in common on the list I showed
you being in denial does not make you right
which literally makes no sense as explained earlier
despite literally not anyone with any education on the subject agreeing with you
which also literally makes no sense
or you know, educated people
here, maybe this will be a good introduction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics
BotanyBoy
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Not when it's administered and doled out by the government. Bureaucrats and pols deciding who gets to sell how much of whatever at what price and rewarding them with not sending them to death camps makes it left leaning, just another type of socialism....government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services.
Meritocracy based on free choice, capitalism, minimal government involvement is right leaning.
When it's controlled in a totalitarian fashion by the government , absolutely.
Yes it does as soon as you stop looking at L v R as Iron fisted government that I like and approve of = L and big meanie iron fisted government I don't like = R .
You didn't explain earlier either you just listed ways different control freaks try to control the same shit.
What makes right wing right wing? If you think it's the kind of iron fist...fine...most people do.
I and quite a few others despite your claims that no one with an education, think otherwise and that right v left is a sliding scale of government control. The more government control, the more left. What that control is sold on is irrelevant to the amount of control itself.
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badbabysitter
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Once again, also not the case with Nazi germany, wherin the government acted in partnership with corporations to remove obstacles for the corporations. And the corporations in turn utilized the carte blanche given them to do pretty much anything they wanted... this was a clear example of when capitalists get free reign, they dont really care at what cost, as long as money comes in
Bureaucrats and pols deciding who gets to sell how much of whatever at what price and rewarding them with not sending them to death camps makes it left leaning,
that is textbook definition of meritocracy, otherwise why would people be rewarded in a system that places no value on individual success.. you can't have meritocracy and collectiveness simultaneously
That's where you contradict yourself... a meritocracy is not based on free choice, it is a system with those on the higher end of the hierarchy making the decisions for the those below them.
and where does totalirianism fit into on the spectrum, big clue; it's not the left
meritocracy by virtue of rewarding the individual and elevating the individual places structure and classes within a society.. those above reward and punish those below
those above also set laws for those below
free choice and minimal government is a lovely thought, but in practice always becomes a tyranny of the elite.. at no point in human history has this ever not been the case.. the idealism you have butterflies and rainbows and everyone holding hands in a right wing world simply doesnt reflect realities of when the minimal government and unfettered capitalism go running free.but that's another argument
as for why germany reflect these ideals of meritocracy to its extremes;
slavery would be perfectly fine in this system as meritocracy would state that slaves by whatever virtue ( be gender , ethnicity, religon) are different and thusly can be treated different.... case in point, jews, muslims, romani
the nazi's turned over public works to private corporations , in return for taxes..in no socialist system do public works become privatized as it goes againt the collectivist nature of socialism, but active rewards the individual and the corporation
there were hierarchies of citizenry which simply do not exist in socialist systems, as all are part of the collective, if force by nessecary.
In socialist systems can become enemies of the state by virtue of their opposition to the system. In a meritocracy based system, an enemy of the state can be anyone who simply is different or opposes those above it in the hierarchy.Ie, slave labour, death camps, final solutions, the idealization of the mythical aryan
which is not the point I'm making whatsoever.. I'm just showing you why no legitimate acdemic in the last 70 years things the nazi's were left wing .
I did, right after you asked for specific examples, and then ignored them due to not fitting your narrative
and there's a reason why most people do; because it's true
Sure, and quite a few scientists believe climate change is not occuring, but they at least attempt to reason out their arguements.
Your entire Nazis are left wing thing is based on the fact that nazis had a government and a military.. and that's about it
Meritocracies are right wing, and the more strict the meritocracies are, the more right wing they are, nothing will change that
BotanyBoy
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No it was in total and absolute control over every single bit of economic production and exchange.
Fine then Meritocracy is left wing too and in no way shape or form capitalism.
So you think Soviet Russia, Red China, North Korea, Cuba and the Khmer Rouge were all right wingers hua?
LOL Good job BBS, thanks for making my point for me. All the biggest totalitarian god state loving control freak tyrants out there were lefties.
The only thing "right" about the Nazi's was their nationalism.....and even then that's not exclusively right wing, just generally.
You know what's definitively left? Government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services....something all the biggest totalitarian states of all time share an extreme amount of.
Only by force of government....every fuckin' time.
No they didn't, they totally controlled private corporations....socialist as it gets without going full blown communist (government IS the corporation).
Only if you consider "legitimate academic" socialist democrats at ULTRA left wing universities only. Otherwise this statement of your is total bullshit.
I dismissed them due to them not being distinctly right wing in nature with regard to government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services (leftism).
No it's not. Learn to read.
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magicalmoments
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Cite your references for your assertions regarding German national socialism above.
BotanyBoy
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I don't run and fetch citation for people on the internet who aren't even making an argument otherwise and will likely just dismiss anything I post anyhow.
If you want to argue that they didn't have an iron fist around their economy then no amount of citation will be able to fix that level of stupid, but if you do it well I might get some citation at that point for the fun of it.
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From what I've heard other people saying, the weed they get now is almost always stronger than it was at least a decade ago. With science advances, it looks like good growers can customize the percentage levels, that's what it sounds like she's saying above.
And yeah, the legal part for illegal possession is great. It's BS how many people have a record for just having a joint or smelling of The Reefer. what we need now is for the states to push back on the Feds to decriminalize weed. It'll take some work since there is so much big money being made in the "war" against it.
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