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What's up with Sadists? A literary request.

J

JaneRamsey

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What's up with Sadists? A literary request.

Hello!
I was wondering if I could get some insight on writing the motivations and feelings of sadist characters. I'm currently attempting to write a handful of chapter/scenes that I want to post here about a young House Mistress who has been sent to punish the stable boy (they are both in their 20s). In the beginning he is established in finding punishment pleasurable, but she has no idea she's going to like punishing him and has never disciplined anyone before. The general idea was to have them fall in love and form whatever kind of relationship you can have for a Mistress and Stable boy at that time (Victorian era). Any and all advice is appreciated though. Also if anyone wants to see a draft of the first scene to better give advice I can send it over (it's short don't worry).

Thank you!
-J

P.S. I've always been very comfortable with the BD side of things and less so with the SM side, but after being on this site for about a week I apparently really like reading about SM type relationships so I figured I'd hop out of my literary wheelhouse and give it a try.
 
For myself, it's all about power exchange. Seeing how helpless the other person is to stop what is being done to them - both pain and pleasure. Imagining what's going through their head, because they are the ones who agreed to participate, and now they are made to suffer, but they also know that a reward is coming.
I also like the fact that masochists are enjoying their suffering.

This type of thought works only with consensual BDSM though. It doesn't really work if someone punishes an unwilling target.
In fact, it takes either a sociopath, a person who has been brought up to treat punishments of other people as natural in their culture, or a person who is afraid to be punished themselves - to inflict sexual punishment and pain on an unwilling person in good conscience.

The scenario you described seems very unrealistic, because humans don't act that way. A girl who never punished anyone will NOT agree to do that with a person she barely knows. Similarly, no matter how much the boy likes punishment and how pretty the girl is - he will NOT let a random stranger "punish" him. And doing that sexually? That's just even less realistic. If a super-pretty top-model girl walks up to me and says she wants to have sex - I will refuse without a second thought. Sex isn't something you do on a whim with complete strangers, and DEFINITELY not something you do as punishment order.
That's just now how people work and act.
 
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Thank you for the insight!
Would you mind if i DMed you my first scene for feedback? The storyline and situation are a little more complicated than I put in my summary (and far less creepy :p)
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks!
-J
 
An unwilling target is called a rape victim.
( we have to keep reminding Nezhul of things like this.)
 
Nezhul said:
For myself, it's all about power exchange. Seeing how helpless the other person is to stop what is being done to them - both pain and pleasure. Imagining what's going through their head, because they are the ones who agreed to participate, and now they are made to suffer, but they also know that a reward is coming.
I also like the fact that masochists are enjoying their suffering.

This type of thought works only with consensual BDSM though. It doesn't really work if someone punishes an unwilling target.
In fact, it takes either a sociopath, a person who has been brought up to treat punishments of other people as natural in their culture, or a person who is afraid to be punished themselves - to inflict sexual punishment and pain on an unwilling person in good conscience.

The scenario you described seems very unrealistic, because humans don't act that way. A girl who never punished anyone will NOT agree to do that with a person she barely knows. Similarly, no matter how much the boy likes punishment and how pretty the girl is - he will NOT let a random stranger "punish" him. And doing that sexually? That's just even less realistic. If a super-pretty top-model girl walks up to me and says she wants to have sex - I will refuse without a second thought. Sex isn't something you do on a whim with complete strangers, and DEFINITELY not something you do as punishment order.
That's just now how people work and act.
Click to expand...


I don't read that Nezhul needs to be reminded about unwilling participants in this particular post.

----

I can't answer from a sadist point of view but - as a "sort of" masochist - I can tell you I appreciate a creative sadist who wants to push my buttons. I don't enjoy pain for pain's sake. I DO enjoy sensation play - that combination of pleasure and pain. Perhaps as a novice sadist, your House Mistress realizes something like spanking or scratching combined with licking nipples or stroking cock is arousing. It starts small.

I appreciate being pushed. Sadism isn't always physically hurtful. Sometimes emotionally. Being written on, for example. Or having to wear an animal tail butt plug doing chores. I appreciate it when a sadist takes the time to find out what shames me or what I'm scared of and then uses it to "make' me face that shame.

Good luck on your story.
 
For clarity sake

The stable boy is more than willing and if anything the mistress is reluctant at first, so don't worry it's not weird and rapey. :p
 
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Hi Jane :)

Happy to have a look if you’d like an opinion from someone who’s normally holding the crop rather than being on the receiving end!
 
JaneRamsey said:
Thank you for the insight!
Would you mind if i DMed you my first scene for feedback? The storyline and situation are a little more complicated than I put in my summary (and far less creepy :p)
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks!
-J
Click to expand...
Nah, I'm sorry but I'm not interested.:rolleyes:
Farawyn said:
An unwilling target is called a rape victim.
( we have to keep reminding Nezhul of things like this.)
Click to expand...
You made yourself look stupid... again.

JaneRamsey said:
The stable boy is more than willing and if anything the mistress is reluctant at first, so don't worry it's not weird and rapey. :p
Click to expand...
WHY is he willing? See, for me a good story is all about not breaking suspension of disbelief. If you establish that he is willing to get punished - you need to establish how the hell did he get into that mindset? Is it, perhaps, an alternative setting where these things are common and accepted? That'd be one explanation.
But if you are shooting for a setting that is similar to our world - it would take A TON to convince me that your characters act like they do - otherwise I will only cringe. I mean, if a mistress of a house asks a girl to go and punish another person - what will ACTUALLY happen is a scandal, a resignment, shortly followed by a lawsuit for sexual harassment and then a pretty heavy fine, or even jail time for said mistress. If my boss asks me to sexually punish another employee - I'm not doing that, I'm calling police ASAP.:cattail:
 
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Nezhul said:
But if you are shooting for a setting that is similar to our world - it would take A TON to convince me that your characters act like they do - otherwise I will only cringe. I mean, if a mistress of a house asks a girl to go and punish another person - what will ACTUALLY happen is a scandal, a resignment, shortly followed by a lawsuit for sexual harassment and then a pretty heavy fine, or even jail time for said mistress. If my boss asks me to sexually punish another employee - I'm not doing that, I'm calling police ASAP.:cattail:
Click to expand...
I'm not a historian, but Victorian Era, I believe, was not like ours when it comes to corporal punishment, resigning, lawsuits and calling the police on your employer.
 
seela said:
I'm not a historian, but Victorian Era, I believe, was not like ours when it comes to corporal punishment, resigning, lawsuits and calling the police on your employer.
Click to expand...
I meant present day setting of course.
In the past there were a lot of societies that functioned differently, and also those that embraced slavery or near-slavery statuses. In those settings, it could be realistic, although I don't think that anyone ever used femdom and BDSM sex as a form of punishment. It was mostly about whips and sticks.
 
Nezhul said:
I meant present day setting of course.
In the past there were a lot of societies that functioned differently, and also those that embraced slavery or near-slavery statuses. In those settings, it could be realistic, although I don't think that anyone ever used femdom and BDSM sex as a form of punishment. It was mostly about whips and sticks.
Click to expand...

Yes, but my point was that the story is set in Victorian era, so your comment about how it would not be plausible in our present day world seemed a bit off.
 
Nezhul said:
For myself, it's all about power exchange. Seeing how helpless the other person is to stop what is being done to them - both pain and pleasure. Imagining what's going through their head, because they are the ones who agreed to participate, and now they are made to suffer, but they also know that a reward is coming.
I also like the fact that masochists are enjoying their suffering.

This type of thought works only with consensual BDSM though. It doesn't really work if someone punishes an unwilling target.
In fact, it takes either a sociopath, a person who has been brought up to treat punishments of other people as natural in their culture, or a person who is afraid to be punished themselves - to inflict sexual punishment and pain on an unwilling person in good conscience.

The scenario you described seems very unrealistic, because humans don't act that way. A girl who never punished anyone will NOT agree to do that with a person she barely knows. Similarly, no matter how much the boy likes punishment and how pretty the girl is - he will NOT let a random stranger "punish" him. And doing that sexually? That's just even less realistic. If a super-pretty top-model girl walks up to me and says she wants to have sex - I will refuse without a second thought. Sex isn't something you do on a whim with complete strangers, and DEFINITELY not something you do as punishment order.
That's just now how people work and act.
Click to expand...

Farawyn said:
An unwilling target is called a rape victim.
( we have to keep reminding Nezhul of things like this.)
Click to expand...

Nezhul said:
You made yourself look stupid... again.
Click to expand...

Nezhul, if the BDSM is non-consensual and the person is unwilling, how is that not rape?
 
ToPleaseHim said:
Nezhul, if the BDSM is non-consensual and the person is unwilling, how is that not rape?
Click to expand...
He didn't deny an unwilling target is a rape victim? Did you two not read the text immediately under the line you bolded?
This type of thought works only with consensual BDSM though. It doesn't really work if someone punishes an unwilling target.
In fact, it takes either a sociopath, a person who has been brought up to treat punishments of other people as natural in their culture, or a person who is afraid to be punished themselves - to inflict sexual punishment and pain on an unwilling person in good conscience.
Click to expand...
He's saying bdsm sadism isn't elicited by unwilling participants. And that people who do get off on hurting unwilling people are sociopaths.

Itchy trigger fingers?
 
Last edited:
Blue said:
He didn't deny an unwilling target is a rape victim? Did you two not read the text immediately under the line you bolded?

He's saying bdsm sadism isn't elicited by unwilling participants. And that people who do get off on hurting unwilling people are sociopaths.

Itchy trigger fingers?
Click to expand...

I read it then and I read it again just now. I still take issue with his wording. “This doesn’t work with an unwilling target” is just a really strange thing to say. To emphasize that BDSM must be safe, sane, and consensual makes sense to me. This doesn’t.
 
Blue said:
Itchy trigger fingers?
Click to expand...

Their responses are based on past history of things posted and tantrums thrown, so now everything he says is questioned and scrutinized, if not flat out ignored. Also, it’s hard not to throw peanuts at a dancing cunt who thinks he’s people.

It’s as ToPleaseHim said, there’s really only one way to interpret “ This doesn’t work with an unwilling target.” and it’s rapey, creepy, and par for the course with his particular brand of masturbatory, shit-posting advice.
 
ToPleaseHim said:
I read it then and I read it again just now. I still take issue with his wording. “This doesn’t work with an unwilling target” is just a really strange thing to say. To emphasize that BDSM must be safe, sane, and consensual makes sense to me. This doesn’t.
Click to expand...
But where are you getting the idea that he is in any way endorsing sexual sadism on unwilling people? Regardless of his choices of wording, he's very clearly aware that doing so would be abusive and specifically puts a negative moral value on it. But you drew the exact opposite meaning from it?

~ ~ ~

_Necrosomantic_ said:
It’s as ToPleaseHim said, there’s really only one way to interpret “ This doesn’t work with an unwilling target.” and it’s rapey, creepy, and par for the course with his particular brand of masturbatory, shit-posting advice.
Click to expand...
No it isn't? It's exactly equivalent to saying "I do not like the thought of having sex with an unwilling person." It's the polar antithesis of 'rapey'.
 
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Did you miss when I said Cookie was right and apologized? Before anyone said anything?
Get off his dick, Con.

I’ve since blocked Nezhul, and I won’t post on this thread since it seems fodder for the OP’s work and nothing more.

So, you can all relax your beta little balls.
 
Blue said:
No it isn't? It's exactly equivalent to saying "I do not like the thought of having sex with an unwilling person." It's the polar antithesis of 'rapey'.
Click to expand...

Love you Con, but like I said, if this was a cold answer from some random person, I’d be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt or ask for clarification. But it’s not, and based on that fact and the history associated with it, it comes off more like he’s speaking from experience and saying that he knows it doesn’t work on the unwilling... Y’know, like a rapist. There, I spelled it out lol. Seeing as how I’m not the only one “ misinterpreting “ this, I ask you to take a step back before blindly defending and ask why it’s a question at all, when it shouldn’t be.
 
_Necrosomantic_ said:
Love you Con, but like I said, if this was a cold answer from some random person, I’d be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt or ask for clarification. But it’s not, and based on that fact and the history associated with it, it comes off more like he’s speaking from experience and saying that he knows it doesn't work on the unwilling... Y’know, like a rapist. There, I spelled it out lol. Seeing as how I’m not the only one “ misinterpreting “ this, I ask you to take a step back before blindly defending and ask why it’s a question at all, when it shouldn't be.
Click to expand...
I get why it's a question. He's shown a dodgy perspective on consent in the past, and because he made an extremely ambiguous phrase that's enough to make you ok with slapping the label of rapist on him? I don't particularly like Nehzul either but that's a completely unfair assertion.

Throw me in prison I guess, because I could probably dig up one or two ancient posts on forums I visited as an edgy mid-teen that show a worse perspective on consent than what nehzul has. And since you know nothing about my sex life or exact thoughts on consent, it's apparently safe to presume I'm some sort of serial rapist.
 
Blue said:
I get why it's a question. He's shown a dodgy perspective on consent in the past, and because he made an extremely ambiguous phrase that's enough to make you ok with slapping the label of rapist on him? I don't particularly like Nehzul either but that's a completely unfair assertion.
Click to expand...

There’s a world difference between making dumb comments when you’re a teenager, and repeatedly posting things that make you come off as a misogynist ( at best) who admittedly has no real experience and speaks purely from a point of view that is completely up his own ass and seemingly takes porn as gospel. And I didn’t call him a rapist, I said “ like one “, which is an opinion that has been reinforced over and over again via little comments like this over a long period of posting walls of bullshit in the Talk forum. This isn’t an isolated incident. You want to defend it, god knows why, go right ahead. But don’t be childish, you’re too intelligent for it and it does you no favors.

Tell me ( and anyone else that feels similarly for that matter ) why, in this made up world of digital personas and impressions formed by opinions and thoughts expressed explicitly and singularly via text, should I not judge someone or make even vague assertions based on their own words?
 
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Unless you are a very good writer, you will have trouble being convincing with a topic you don't enjoy yourself. That came out with the Shades of Grey books. Anything, especially sexual desires are very difficult to write about, if you are on the outside of that desire.

But, it doesn't sound like a bad choice of a story, if you can pull it off. I'm just the other way, meaning I'd enjoy a servant girl being punished by a male master. And because Lit has issues with non-consensual sex of any kind, you might have problems getting it posted here. But, if they end up falling in love, you might be allowed. Good luck with it.
 
Blue said:
I get why it's a question. He's shown a dodgy perspective on consent in the past, and because he made an extremely ambiguous phrase that's enough to make you ok with slapping the label of rapist on him? I don't particularly like Nehzul either but that's a completely unfair assertion.

Throw me in prison I guess, because I could probably dig up one or two ancient posts on forums I visited as an edgy mid-teen that show a worse perspective on consent than what nehzul has. And since you know nothing about my sex life or exact thoughts on consent, it's apparently safe to presume I'm some sort of serial rapist.
Click to expand...

Who slapped the label of racist on him? Far and I certainly did not. His post seemed to minimize rape, but I never called him a rapist. And that last line? Pretty extreme...
 
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