Well, Trump has finally and overtly committed treason

You and Paul Chance sure are hung up on letting Russia off the hook for the election interference aspect of the conflict, as related to this discussion about the legal definition of treason. You are aware that the Russian military invaded the Ukraine and was under sanctions by the U.S. and its [former] allies?

That does seem to add another dimension to this discussion, other than, "Everybody interferes with elections, so no big deal."

Oh absolutely aware - Ukraine, Crimea, Syria - all on Obama's watch of course, but definitely to be factored in the mix.

You are aware that the Obama admin refused to provide Ukraine with direct military assistance in either advisors or arms and that Trump has removed that barrier and we are actually arming and training Ukrainian forces now right?

You are aware that the Trump administration has expanded the sanctions against Russia and Russian individuals beyond the Obama sanctions, to such a degree that Bill Browder (a fierce anti-Putin critic) characterized them as "a bulls eye hitting Putin and his associates where it hurts"?

My point isn't pro-Trump or anti-Trump - it's about the importance of the rule of law, the importance of perspective and context, and how simply saying something like "it's treason", "it's war" doesn't make it so (no matter how many times someone says it).

The risk to the DNC is that, by creating a straw man that ultimately amounts to nothing in real terms, it does a disservice to the liberal cause and provides disincentive to swing voters who might be persuaded to swing back to the DNC.

Rather than expending a lot of energy on "Trump Bad" (hahaha that might be a good campaign slogan), the liberal cause would gain more by focusing more tightly on real world things. "Trump Bad" feels good, emotionally, but it's the slogan of the impotent and it's not going to persuade anyone.
 
I had to say "Trump Bad" out loud to get it. That is pretty good.

To expand on the idea I think yard signs that say:

Trump Evil!
Vote Democrat​

Would be a really good campaign, if they had anyone that could deliver that in a tongue-in-cheek good-natured way.
 
I had to say "Trump Bad" out loud to get it. That is pretty good.

To expand on the idea I think yard signs that say:

Trump Evil!
Vote Democrat​

Would be a really good campaign, if they had anyone that could deliver that in a tongue-in-cheek good-natured way.

And for the southern vote - a little old lady making sweet tea - looks at the camera and says "Y'all, that Donnie fella, why he just ain't right, bless his heart. I reckon Jesus is gonna smite him come 2020 and he wants you to reach out and smite him at the polls too. Now, you can't smite him in 2018, but you can smite his little minions, so call up your neighbors and get some smiting done."
 
The Republicans could go out on a limb and fire back with:

Trump Stupid.
Vote Democrats Out!​

That might not send exactly the right message. . .
 
You called out Dems for "suddenly" getting anti-Russia over night.

Time to call out Rep's (traditionally very anti-Russian) for "suddenly" being ok with sucking Putin's dick.

Crickets.

Can only conclude you're a partisan hack.


Now you're resorting to lies to pretend?

Pathetic.

Having never sent any Republican a voter or so much as a penny while regularly criticizing their inability to do anything or follow up on any of their talk.....how am I (R) partisan again?:rolleyes:

Right.....not being an alt-left bigot who hates white people and freaks out like it's the end of the world every time Trump says or does anything doesn't make me a Republican no matter how bad you wish it did!! :)
 
You called out Dems for "suddenly" getting anti-Russia over night.

Time to call out Rep's (traditionally very anti-Russian) for "suddenly" being ok with sucking Putin's dick.

Crickets.

Can only conclude you're a partisan hack.

When I first joined in 2014, he wasn't this much of a moron, he did fling some shit at rightist fundies. I'm not sure what happened to him or if he has some sort of degenerative brain disease, who knows?

I know he enjoys being an antagonistic jerk.
 
Why not? It's how the Orange Turd got into office. It's how the Tea Party got into power, turning Obama into Satan. You're still foaming at the mouth about Hillary. It worked.

Rs never have any message but swiftboating their D opponent. All of you are still obsessed with Hillary Clinton being "evil."

Perfect opportunity for Bitter Boy to call out your partisan hackery.


I had to say "Trump Bad" out loud to get it. That is pretty good.

To expand on the idea I think yard signs that say:

Trump Evil!
Vote Democrat​

Would be a really good campaign, if they had anyone that could deliver that in a tongue-in-cheek good-natured way.
 
Have you lost the ability to read? Election interference is not the point that Trump ceded to Putin before they even met.

Our idiotic president blamed the Russian invasion of the Ukraine on his U.S. predecessors. Inexcusable, and the dumbest possible way to enter a negotiation with an obvious military adversary.

From what I read, Crimea has a very complicated history.
I struggle to suss out who were the good guys or bad guys on this one.

Crimea, which has been part of the Russian empire for 2 centuries, was gifted by Krushchev to Ukraine in 1954 as a measure of good will. Ukraine needed agricultural land, and Crimea had it.

In 2014, Putin decided to take it back, so he organized a referendum in which the majority of Crimeans opted to join Russia.

It makes sense, doesn't it? Since the majority of Crimeans are Russians.
In saying that, the non-Russian Crimean population has been significantly watered down by Russians over the years (tatars, greeks or armenians asked to leave or deported to Siberia, Crimean Ukraininas preferred to leave Crimea for Ukraine).


In saying that, Imperialistic Russia Does pose a significant regional threat to Ukraine and to many countries from that part of Europe.
 
Why not? It's how the Orange Turd got into office. It's how the Tea Party got into power, turning Obama into Satan. You're still foaming at the mouth about Hillary. It worked.

Rs never have any message but swiftboating their D opponent. All of you are still obsessed with Hillary Clinton being "evil."

Perfect opportunity for Bitter Boy to call out your partisan hackery.

What was Hillary's "message," again?

What is the "message" for the DNC heading into the midterms?
 
Poor little tranny, hes still upset his family left him. :)

But...but...HILLARY!!!!
 
Speaking of trannies: you having been ostracized by all of the street walking trannies in the Greater Houston area probably ended up being a good thing because it enabled you to save up enough money for your sex-junket!

Out of money on third-world transgendered hookers already? You've been a busy boy, Rob!
 
From what I read, Crimea has a very complicated history.
I struggle to suss out who were the good guys or bad guys on this one.

Crimea, which has been part of the Russian empire for 2 centuries, was gifted by Krushchev to Ukraine in 1954 as a measure of good will. Ukraine needed agricultural land, and Crimea had it.

In 2014, Putin decided to take it back, so he organized a referendum in which the majority of Crimeans opted to join Russia.

It makes sense, doesn't it? Since the majority of Crimeans are Russians.
In saying that, the non-Russian Crimean population has been significantly watered down by Russians over the years (tatars, greeks or armenians asked to leave or deported to Siberia, Crimean Ukraininas preferred to leave Crimea for Ukraine).


In saying that, Imperialistic Russia Does pose a significant regional threat to Ukraine and to many countries from that part of Europe.

Yeah, I read up on the whole Crimean situation to try and get my arms around it and I'm indifferent there - not to mention the complexity of Crimea's legal status within the Ukraine, when it was part of it. It was a coup, a soft coup, but it was also a coup with widespread support on the ground - hence the soft part.

Russia is a power, Russia is a player, Russian interests are not always aligned with ours. In some areas they are our rivals, in others close to our enemies, in yet others we work and cooperate with them routinely. We buy 18 billion dollars of their goods a year (2017 number) and they buy 9 billion of ours. Yet one more reason to view that we are neither at war with them or are they our enemies in the traditional geopolitical sense. Competitors yes, enemies no.
 
You are aware that the Trump administration has expanded the sanctions against Russia and Russian individuals beyond the Obama sanctions, to such a degree that Bill Browder (a fierce anti-Putin critic) characterized them as "a bulls eye hitting Putin and his associates where it hurts"?

For somebody who isn't "pro-Trump or anti-Trump", you sure are good at providing him plenty of cover. He opposed those sanctions you cite above. He was forced into a corner by Congress on that, probably figuring that in the end he could use his signing of that bill to "prove" he was "tough on Russia", what with his upcoming "witch hunt" investigation and all.

The sanctions will become toast under Trump.

Damn, you drink a lot of Kool Aide.
 
For somebody who isn't "pro-Trump or anti-Trump", you sure are good at providing him plenty of cover. He opposed those sanctions you cite above. He was forced into a corner by Congress on that, probably figuring that in the end he could use his signing of that bill to "prove" he was "tough on Russia", what with his upcoming "witch hunt" investigation and all.

The sanctions will become toast under Trump.

Damn, you drink a lot of Kool Aide.

You conveniently edited out arming the ukrainians. You know with actual arms to shoot back with. That sort of thing.
 
I'm trying to imagine the reaction from the Trump apologists if Obama had done one tenth of this shit.
 
You conveniently edited out arming the ukrainians. You know with actual arms to shoot back with. That sort of thing.

Means nothing at this point, anyway. Trump is ceding the Ukraine, and blaming it on Obama. If you have Trump aligned with Putin, the Ukraine does not have the chance of a fart in a hurricane.
 
If the shoe were on the other foot...

I'm trying to imagine the reaction from the Trump apologists if Obama had done one tenth of this shit.

With the Repugnicans in control of Congress, either Obama or Hillary would have been gone in early 2017. The Repugs would say, "Forget about kissing Putin's ass over the invasion of the Ukraine. You had me at election interference. "

The Repugnican party stands for one thing, staying in power. By any means available.
 
I'm trying to imagine the reaction from the Trump apologists if Obama had done one tenth of this shit.

I do think the Trumpettes on the board need to check in with instructions from Faux Views. Not all at Fox today are marching with the "president."
 
Yeah, I read up on the whole Crimean situation to try and get my arms around it and I'm indifferent there - not to mention the complexity of Crimea's legal status within the Ukraine, when it was part of it. It was a coup, a soft coup, but it was also a coup with widespread support on the ground - hence the soft part.

Russia is a power, Russia is a player, Russian interests are not always aligned with ours. In some areas they are our rivals, in others close to our enemies, in yet others we work and cooperate with them routinely. We buy 18 billion dollars of their goods a year (2017 number) and they buy 9 billion of ours. Yet one more reason to view that we are neither at war with them or are they our enemies in the traditional geopolitical sense. Competitors yes, enemies no.

Good points.

I'm far from being a "Russian defender", because we all know the expression "Russian boots" and the danger that they posed and still pose to their neighboring countries.

But as far as the US are concerned, I fail to grasp "The Russians are coming!" paranoia and "Trump's the Devil versus Trump is Messiah" GB fights.

Even I, being as illiterate in political and economic matters as I am, think that Politics are much more complex than that.
 
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Means nothing at this point, anyway. Trump is ceding the Ukraine, and blaming it on Obama. If you have Trump aligned with Putin, the Ukraine does not have the chance of a fart in a hurricane.

So you imagine that Putin is thrilled with armed Ukrainians?

Selective geopolitical concerns, much?

Bottom line is anything that Trump does in what is a fairly complicated mix of often conflicting Russian/US interests and areas of conflict, you just discard anything that Putin doesn't like as immaterial and hype anything he does like as world threatening treasonous collaberation.

You can parrot the hysterics all you like it isn't going to change the fact that none of this is going to influence independants, which is what you need for the midterms.
 
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