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writing short chapters

Voboy said:
Like every established writer here, I’ve got scads of finished pieces I deem unworthy of posting.
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Nope. I'm pretty established here and I have no finished pieces I deem unworthy of posting. I've yet to toss one away or to consider it unworthy of posting anywhere it can meet content requirements. These sweeping generalizations can become so inconvenient. I can't think of a single piece of erotica I've written that didn't, in my view, end up better than I conceptualized it, and I don't start writing anything that I don't think will make a story. Maybe I just work away at them until I'm satisfied with them all, but it's just a fact that I've never tossed one short of publishing it somewhere--and most for money. So, I was a little shocked to see the bold quoted statement, which I don't think you are in a position to possibly know anyway.
 
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Voboy said:
Like every established writer here, I’ve got scads of finished pieces I deem unworthy of posting.
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As KeithD said, that's not universal here. I've finished 26 stories/chapters written for Literotica; 25 of them are posted and the 26th will be posted as soon as the 27th is written. (For a series, I generally don't post chapter N until the draft for N+1 is written, in case I need to retcon stuff.)

It sounds as if you review your stories after they're written, to decide whether they're good enough to publish. If that's what works for you then that's your business, but it just isn't how I write. I make that call earlier in the process; if I don't feel like a story is working out, I'll abandon it or put it on hold until I figure out a way through. If I get to The End, it's because I felt like it was good enough, and that assessment isn't likely to change after I'm done writing.

Because if your writing was only about you, it’d stay on your hard drive.
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This part I agree with.
 
Hypoxia said:
ObTopic: Questions of how long a submission "should be" arise here on AH about every week. AH needs a sticky directing such questioners to the forum archive to see extant answers. Such always trend toward: write it as long as you want, above the 750 word LIT minimum, because every tale has its own dynamics and so do you. Then see if you like reader reactions.
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I quite agree.
:)
 
Fair enough, then, and “scads” includes projects that never came to much for me. I checked this morning and I’ve only got three. One won’t see the light of day because I like it less than I thought I would, one doesn’t meet Lit’s standards (wee bit too rapey), and one... well, it’s got problems.

There are seven more unfinished things that didn’t work. So ten appears to be “scads,” and “finished” went a bit far. Point being, there are false starts that occur inevitably to almost anyone who writes for public consumption at whatever level.

And I was talking about Lit, not about other publishing avenues. I, too, have put things off-Lit that don’t belong here or won’t find an audience here, but I don’t think that’s what the OP was speaking of.
 
rikimaru4 said:
Since posting on Lit, I've begun to reflect a little bit. What does it say about my writing if reading the whole story in one go robs it of its intended impact? Is it just a cheap gimmick? After all, once the story's been completed, it's out there for anyone to read all in one sitting if they so choose or half at a time, or three chapters at a time. Who am I to attempt to control the pace of actual readership consumption?
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So I just read your Dr. Jeckel series in a single go. (Really liked it, left a comment.) You're right. Once a story is out it belongs to the reader to read it however they want. I had a friend in high school who always liked to read the last chapter of a book first. I myself have binge-read many a page turner, depriving myself of the suspenseful and deductory pleasures that a more patient reader might enjoy. But that's my fault, not the author's.

In your series, at the outer storyline level the short scenes worked just fine to move the plot along. The way they were aggregated into chapters was pretty irrelevant. At the erotic level, most scenes (IIRC) had an erotic climax, so they came pretty fast and furious for a single sitting. When you ended one chapter by just saying "and then they got down to business" I breathed a little sigh of relief. But that relentlessness was an element of the story—the contrast between pure animal lust and a deeper, more emotional, more mutual love making. I guess there are readers who come here for the former, but there are also readers who prefer the latter. You delivered very well on the latter by giving us three-dimensional characters we could really care about. I'm not sure that the chaptering was critical to that.

I guess in a way everything about writing is kind of a gimmick. Control what you can. I see that your method of serialization did result in some commentary dialog between you and your fans. In some ways that's the main payback you get for your effort.
 
rikimaru4 said:
If there's a prevailing theme in this thread, on this forum as whole, it's 'write what YOU want, do what YOU want, as nothing else makes sense in a place where readers don't pay to read and writers don't get paid to write.'

Seems self evident to me.
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The only thing you owe your writers is your best effort.

On this matter of leaving readers in suspense, I don't understand why there is any debate. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've written chapters that leave the reader hanging, and others that are designed as mini-stories within a larger narrative. I think that some authors see what they submit here as prose porno movies, that have to give the fellas a money shot. If that works for them, excellent. I don't doubt that many readers want exactly that. But there's room for every approach. I don't believe anyone writes just for themselves, but they write for themselves first.
 
KeithD said:
Nope. I'm pretty established here and I have no finished pieces I deem unworthy of posting. I've yet to toss one away or to consider it unworthy of posting anywhere it can meet content requirements. These sweeping generalizations can become so inconvenient. I can't think of a single piece of erotica I've written that didn't, in my view, end up better than I conceptualized it, and I don't start writing anything that I don't think will make a story. Maybe I just work away at them until I'm satisfied with them all, but it's just a fact that I've never tossed one short of publishing it somewhere--and most for money. So, I was a little shocked to see the bold quoted statement, which I don't think you are in a position to possibly know anyway.
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I have much less experience than you, but from my more limited perspective, I echo your thoughts. I have a stack of concepts that I haven't gotten to yet. Some will likely never grow into a story, but with those that do, I can't imagine not working at them until I realize an acceptable piece of work.
 
HectorBidon said:
So I just read your Dr. Jeckel series in a single go. (Really liked it, left a comment.) You're right. Once a story is out it belongs to the reader to read it however they want. I had a friend in high school who always liked to read the last chapter of a book first. I myself have binge-read many a page turner, depriving myself of the suspenseful and deductory pleasures that a more patient reader might enjoy. But that's my fault, not the author's.

In your series, at the outer storyline level the short scenes worked just fine to move the plot along. The way they were aggregated into chapters was pretty irrelevant. At the erotic level, most scenes (IIRC) had an erotic climax, so they came pretty fast and furious for a single sitting. When you ended one chapter by just saying "and then they got down to business" I breathed a little sigh of relief. But that relentlessness was an element of the story—the contrast between pure animal lust and a deeper, more emotional, more mutual love making. I guess there are readers who come here for the former, but there are also readers who prefer the latter. You delivered very well on the latter by giving us three-dimensional characters we could really care about. I'm not sure that the chaptering was critical to that.

I guess in a way everything about writing is kind of a gimmick. Control what you can. I see that your method of serialization did result in some commentary dialog between you and your fans. In some ways that's the main payback you get for your effort.
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Hi Hector,

Thank you for taking the time to read through one of my stories and offer direct, non-hypothetical feedback! This kind of thing you discuss is really at the essence of what I am asking/talking/concerned about.

I think it's pretty clear from your comment that taking in the story in a single sitting is a different experience from reading a chapter a week. In one sense there is an escalating progression; in the other, it's a lot of the same, only more so in each chapter. I imagine taken in at once, there is some element of repetitiveness that is perhaps not as pronounced when read in serial releases.

I don't know of a solution to address that technically through writing, but my overall sentiment (perhaps unfounded) is that people should be able to read a story any which way and have it stand as mostly the same experience.

Re: the comments and reader interaction, I am glad you did point that out, since it is certainly an aspect that would not have been there if published in one shot; reader's takes on various points in the story as the plot progresses. That was very nice.
 
rikimaru4 said:
I think it's pretty clear from your comment that taking in the story in a single sitting is a different experience from reading a chapter a week. In one sense there is an escalating progression; in the other, it's a lot of the same, only more so in each chapter. I imagine taken in at once, there is some element of repetitiveness that is perhaps not as pronounced when read in serial releases.
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Such 'escalation' only works when chapters first go online. Later, readers going through your back catalog will likely plow through the series, or quit.

I've a finished 18-part series, each chapter told from one or two different POVs, with necessarily many repeated descriptions of the settings. I tried to render each visualization a bit different, to not annoy readers. I lack Dickens' attentive weekly newspaper audience. Chapters submitted a few weeks apart here must contain reminders for catching-up readers, but not too much repeated detail. It's a balancing act.
 
rikimaru4 said:
Re: the comments and reader interaction, I am glad you did point that out, since it is certainly an aspect that would not have been there if published in one shot; reader's takes on various points in the story as the plot progresses. That was very nice.
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At one point, a reader asked me in a comment if the latest chapter was the end of the series. They said they hoped it was not, because there were a number of storylines they thought had not been resolved. They went onto list three of them.

The third was one I had not considered until that moment, but once they mentioned it, I realized that it did, indeed, need resolution.
 
MelissaBaby said:
At one point, a reader asked me in a comment if the latest chapter was the end of the series. They said they hoped it was not, because there were a number of storylines they thought had not been resolved. They went onto list three of them.

The third was one I had not considered until that moment, but once they mentioned it, I realized that it did, indeed, need resolution.
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I've extended a few series due to reader notes after ending an arc. I may finish the arc with 1-3 posted 'chapters' but consequences usually follow, that can stand resolution. Unless I unleash a supernova. Then a prequel may do. I try to tell myself, "What's done is done," but I don't always listen.

Let's keep in mind LIT's alphanumeric title-ordering sequence. Submit such as below in any order, and here's how they'll list:

Duke O'Dick: A Bad Start
Duke O'Dick: Breakfast For Three
Duke O'Dick: CuntSlave Ch.00 before
Duke O'Dick: CuntSlave Ch.01 start
Duke O'Dick: CuntSlave Ch.02 during
Duke O'Dick: CuntSlave Ch.03 after
Duke O'Dick: Double-Dicked
Duke O'Dick: Endless Emissions

Any of those submissions might have one-to-many internal chapters, or episodes, or segments, or however you want to label fragments. Most of my stories are clumped bits of shorter narrative, scene after scene. I might fit three 'chapters' per page into a story, each a logical unit of some sort. But a title like CUMALOT Ch.33 will, without a fan club, grab few eyeballs.
 
MelissaBaby said:
The only thing you owe your [readers] is your best effort.

. . . I don't believe anyone writes just for themselves, but they write for themselves first.
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It's a spectrum, I think. There are workmanlike authors who keep their audience closely in mind as they craft their tales, and who feel little need to revisit them once they are polished and out the door. And there are more carefree authors (at least one I know of) who write primarily for themselves, and whose view counts are skewed by their own self appreciation. Still, though, I absolutely agree that the one thing an author owes his or her readers, be they him- or herself or be they anyone else who happens to stumble across the story, is his or her very best effort.
 
n00b question here, and I hope no-one minds me popping in with it:

What is a "Lit page"? I've seen that mentioned here a lot as being ~3700 words.

In my own writing, scenes or sections typically come in around 3000-4500 words, with the whole story being... well, however many scenes it needs to be. Some of my short stories broke 100K because I apparently don't know when to shut up, or what 'short story' means. Seeing that the submission setup here was a lot like Wattpad, I figured that individual submissions of 3000-4500 would be the way to go, the way to start building a readership (Part 01, 02, 03... 13, 14, 15...). Is this not the general consensus?
 
Abbigale said:
n00b question here, and I hope no-one minds me popping in with it:

What is a "Lit page"? I've seen that mentioned here a lot as being ~3700 words.

In my own writing, scenes or sections typically come in around 3000-4500 words, with the whole story being... well, however many scenes it needs to be. Some of my short stories broke 100K because I apparently don't know when to shut up, or what 'short story' means. Seeing that the submission setup here was a lot like Wattpad, I figured that individual submissions of 3000-4500 would be the way to go, the way to start building a readership (Part 01, 02, 03... 13, 14, 15...). Is this not the general consensus?
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When you read a Literotica story in a browser, you scroll down the page until it hits the bottom and the text on the page runs out and then hit next for the next page. That's a Lit page. It averages 3750 words.

As for advice, the most common and probably accurate advice you will get is some variation of: do what you want and/or do whatever works for your particular story.

As a practical matter, stories do a little better in scores and views if they are over one Lit page and head to around 3 Lit pages or more. So quite a lot longer than what you are envisioning -- about 10,000 words or more. I think 3 is a kind of pragmatic sweet spot, but obviously it depends on the plot and pace and structure of your story. You don't want to rewrite your story around Literotica conventions, but you can group pages or sections into appealingly-sized chunks for submission.

Based on my experience, I think having multiple chapters of only about 1 Lit page is not ideal if one of your goals is to build readership. But some disagree.
 
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Abbigale said:
n00b question here, and I hope no-one minds me popping in with it:

What is a "Lit page"? I've seen that mentioned here a lot as being ~3700 words.

In my own writing, scenes or sections typically come in around 3000-4500 words, with the whole story being... well, however many scenes it needs to be. Some of my short stories broke 100K because I apparently don't know when to shut up, or what 'short story' means. Seeing that the submission setup here was a lot like Wattpad, I figured that individual submissions of 3000-4500 would be the way to go, the way to start building a readership (Part 01, 02, 03... 13, 14, 15...). Is this not the general consensus?
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A LIT page is close to 3750 words. The minimum LIT submission is 750 words; poetry can be shorter. One-page stories usually don't receive as good reception as 2-3 pagers (7-10k words), and 10-20 pagers can do quite well. Series stories often do well at 2-4 LIT pages per chapter. But you'll lose readers with each successive chapter.
 
Hmmmm, good to know.

Looks like it's time to start gagging the little voice that says "Post now! Get feedback! Attention is good! VALIDATION!" and wait until I've got something more substantial.

Thanks!
 
Abbigale said:
Hmmmm, good to know.

Looks like it's time to start gagging the little voice that says "Post now! Get feedback! Attention is good! VALIDATION!" and wait until I've got something more substantial.

Thanks!
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Right. Resist the impulse to rush.

Plus, you will lose readers if you delay too long before publishing chapters. So if you can finish all or a very good chunk of the series before you start publishing, unless you are very confident you can publish successive chapters only a few days apart.
 
SimonDoom said:
Right. Resist the impulse to rush.
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Quite so. PATIENCE is a LIT author's greatest virtue.

Plus, you will lose readers if you delay too long before publishing chapters. So if you can finish all or a very good chunk of the series before you start publishing, unless you are very confident you can publish successive chapters only a few days apart.
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My most recent approach: If a story MUST appear in distinct submissions / chapters, I write and proof the whole arc, then either 1) submit them all at once and let Laurel handle the spacing, usually a couple days apart, or 2) submit the next after the previous one posts, putting them 5-9 days apart.

But some stories just shouldn't be chopped into installments.

Another approach: Each submission in a shared-universe story cycle can be pretty much standalone, not a serial -- as TV episodes used to be, a new adventure or tragicomedy every week.
 
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I myself have a sheaf of half-finished stories. Every so often, I pull one out and add a page or six. Most of them are fairly solid; I just haven’t cranked up the mental wattage to finish.

It comes in handy when deadlines are approaching and it works for me,but, as always, YMMV.
 
Abbigale said:
Hmmmm, good to know.

Looks like it's time to start gagging the little voice that says "Post now! Get feedback! Attention is good! VALIDATION!" and wait until I've got something more substantial.

Thanks!
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You'll get more validation from publishing a proper story.

Also? Once you've done a couple dozen of these, you want to still be proud of your early work. You'll develop: that's inevitable. But you don't want to start out rushed and uncertain. You'll always cringe as you cruise past your first entry, if you do.
 
rikimaru4 said:
I don't know of a solution to address that technically through writing, but my overall sentiment (perhaps unfounded) is that people should be able to read a story any which way and have it stand as mostly the same experience.
Click to expand...

Hypoxia said:
Such 'escalation' only works when chapters first go online. Later, readers going through your back catalog will likely plow through the series, or quit.
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Herein lies my primary concern. Which is those following the story while new have a different experience than those reading the story later, all in one go.

My feeling is that the work should stand up either way. My concern is that it doesn't, or at least not as strongly.

Hypoxia said:
Series stories often do well at 2-4 LIT pages per chapter. But you'll lose readers with each successive chapter.
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Still not convinced this is the case. Let's say you have a 50K word story:

Scenario 1: published in one shot, with 100K views
Scenario 2: published in 10 separate 5K word releases, the first chapter getting say 80K views and then the final chapter getting 20K views

What does this mean? What does this tell us? Does it mean that Scenario 1 is superior because it received 100K views? How do we have any certainty that the reader read past chapter 1 or 2 or 3? Past the first paragraph? How do you know that as the story progresses, you don't have similar or even identical attrition rate per chapter to Scenario 2?

There's a lot of assumptions to have to be made to draw any conclusions.
 
Abbigale said:
Hmmmm, good to know.

Looks like it's time to start gagging the little voice that says "Post now! Get feedback! Attention is good! VALIDATION!" and wait until I've got something more substantial.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I think this is true, but I have another suggestion. Go easy on yourself by starting with a short (6000-10000 word) standalone story. It's a better way to get your feet wet quickly. Don't make a 100,000 word epic your first foray into Literotica. Read some of the stories submitted in the latest Nude Day contest. There are plenty of good reasonably sized stories that give you an excellent idea of what readers respond well to here.

I didn't get started on a series until my fifth story. Before that I wrote four standalone stories of 2 to 6 Lit pages each. It's a much easier and less stressful way to get something submitted and start getting feedback. Don't think you need to polish a story to perfection before you submit it.
 
rikimaru4 said:
Herein lies my primary concern. Which is those following the story while new have a different experience than those reading the story later, all in one go.

My feeling is that the work should stand up either way. My concern is that it doesn't, or at least not as strongly.



Still not convinced this is the case. Let's say you have a 50K word story:

Scenario 1: published in one shot, with 100K views
Scenario 2: published in 10 separate 5K word releases, the first chapter getting say 80K views and then the final chapter getting 20K views

What does this mean? What does this tell us? Does it mean that Scenario 1 is superior because it received 100K views? How do we have any certainty that the reader read past chapter 1 or 2 or 3? Past the first paragraph? How do you know that as the story progresses, you don't have similar or even identical attrition rate per chapter to Scenario 2?

There's a lot of assumptions to have to be made to draw any conclusions.
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It's been said before, but you actually get a better look at how the story is going in the chapter style than the one-shot. Most every chapter style story looses a lot of readers after Ch 01. If this were a one shot story, one would be tempted to assume the total views equates to total reads. This is clearly not the case, as shown in the average chapter style story stats.

So what it tells me is a lot of readers give a story a quick look and back out. But it also tells me more accurately how many actually read it through to the end and their scores indicate what a reader who was into the story thinks w/o the cluttered data from those who don't find it their cup of tea.
 
SimonDoom said:
I think this is true, but I have another suggestion. Go easy on yourself by starting with a short (6000-10000 word) standalone story. It's a better way to get your feet wet quickly. Don't make a 100,000 word epic your first foray into Literotica. Read some of the stories submitted in the latest Nude Day contest. There are plenty of good reasonably sized stories that give you an excellent idea of what readers respond well to here.

I didn't get started on a series until my fifth story. Before that I wrote four standalone stories of 2 to 6 Lit pages each. It's a much easier and less stressful way to get something submitted and start getting feedback. Don't think you need to polish a story to perfection before you submit it.
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My Nude Day story was also my first story on here, and is just shy of 9k words. I'd say that's a really good length indeed. Long enough to fit in an actual meaningful or complex plot, but not so long to be intimidating or hard to plan and manage. I'm planning on writing a few stories of similar length (or maybe a bit longer) into different categories to find what I like writing most, and what does well with the readers in different categories. I have one or two story ideas that would be long enough to be published as individual chapters, but I'm intentionally holding those back until I am more familiar with this site and writing erotica in general.
 
ThisNameIsntTakenYet said:
My Nude Day story was also my first story on here, and is just shy of 9k words. I'd say that's a really good length indeed. Long enough to fit in an actual meaningful or complex plot, but not so long to be intimidating or hard to plan and manage. I'm planning on writing a few stories of similar length (or maybe a bit longer) into different categories to find what I like writing most, and what does well with the readers in different categories. I have one or two story ideas that would be long enough to be published as individual chapters, but I'm intentionally holding those back until I am more familiar with this site and writing erotica in general.
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I read your story. It was very good, especially for a first effort. That's exactly the kind of story I would suggest as a model for a first story here. It's got a good setup with uncertainty and internal conflict, an erotically charged atmosphere, and a good buildup to an enjoyable sex scene with a twist, all in under three Lit pages.
 
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