Kinky People in Vanilla Relationships

A couple of phrases really resonated with me, SK.

StrayKat said:

< I am all for communication. Talk, until you go blue in the face. But what if that changes nothing? What if other person shuts down and doesnt let you get close? >

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I've seem this type of thing so often. People say they want to talk about a situation, but in reality, they walk in to the conversation with a closed mind. Either they take a defensive position and aren't really listening, or they see it as an opportunity to show how your opinion is "wrong".

Not much you can do in such cases. Communication is a two way street. One person can't do it alone.

StrayKat said:

< Personally I hate lies but I have to wonder if the truth is the worse option in some cases. >

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This too. Again, people say they want the truth, but I often see situations where one party is actually angry when the second party is honest. I prefer the truth, however unpalatable, but I want to take responsibility for making my own decisions. Many do not, it's so much easier to blame your unhappiness or failures on others that way.

It's truly amazing how many people give lip service to wanting "honesty" in their relationships when in truth, they practice nothing of the kind.

StrayKat said:

It is not always so easy nor black and white. There *can* be libido imbalance and still exist friendship and love. Sometimes people hope things will change, the other person may have some real mental or physical problems and it takes time to solve them. Takes time to even persuade someone to realize they might need professional help. And what do you do in that time if you simply said need sex to function properly, yet dont get it in a way or dose that would satisfy you? What if you are sexually attracted to that person still, apart from being friends and love them and maybe have children and house mortgage and many other things on top.
How is that easy to get out of then?

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If it’s about the financial obligations, it’s hard to get out? Or it's not convenient to get out? That’s why so many choose to stay. They think it’s hard to get out. A house and mortgage is nothing, Kat. It means nothing. Material crap. Walk away, let them have it if you are worried about conflict. Do the right thing if they need your help supporting themselves.

Children aren’t blind. They see everything. So, it’s better to let them see mom and dad stay together, but dad or mom goes and cheats? The truth always prevails, always. The children will know.

How can you say that you love someone, and that you are friends with someone if you are going to lie and deceive them? If you are going to put your needs before their needs? That’s not friendship. That’s not love. That’s being self centered, not other centered. Relationships are about the other person. Sharing yourself with someone. Relationships are not about getting your needs met. It’s about meeting the other person’s needs. Sometimes, walking away is loving the other person. It is honoring them. It is looking out for them and being a friend, not only to them, but also to yourself.

Relationships can be very complicated. People are complicated. And not everyone is always sure why they want something or even what they want. Or dont want.

I am all for communication. Talk, until you go blue in the face. But what if that changes nothing? What if other person shuts down and doesnt let you get close? What if they dont know the answers, however silly it may sound? Not everyone is aware of everything about themselves. What if they want but just cant <do whatever would make you happier>? But you love them still and dont want to leave.
What then? Live in celibate? What if your suppressed sex drive starts affecting things that it shouldnt in negative way?

It is not easy, nor simple to solve such things sometimes. And it may take quite a bit of time. Personally I hate lies but I have to wonder if the truth is the worse option in some cases. At least until you manage to get through some entangled mental bushes in your relationship to present said truth.

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I’m celibate, not by choice. I’m single. It’s not easy. If I was married, and celibate, then what? I have an excuse to get my sexual needs met because someone isn’t doing it “for me”? No, I have a reason to be true to myself and true to another person, which, although may not seem like the “easy” thing to do, it is the most loving thing, the most other-centered thing to do. In being true to myself, I am being true to another.

Well we are all different people, arent we? My life is not focused exclusively on serving the needs of a person that cant be arsed to serve mine. :shrug:

StrayKat said:

Well we are all different people, arent we? My life is not focused exclusively on serving the needs of a person that cant be arsed to serve mine. :shrug:

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Relationships aren't one-sided. Whether the one doing the cheating, or the one being cheated on. Neither person is serving the other. They are both living a lie. Most people know they are being cheated on, but like their partner, they don't want to deal with the consequences of facing the truth.

*shrug*

And so it goes...

All_4_Love said:

Relationships aren't one-sided. Whether the one doing the cheating, or the one being cheated on. Neither person is serving the other. They are both living a lie. Most people know they are being cheated on, but like their partner, they don't want to deal with the consequences of facing the truth.

*shrug*

And so it goes...

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And if they are aware and dont want to face the truth, where is the lie? You cant dictate people what they will face or not. If it makes them feel better not to know something, if it would shatter them to face the naked truth, I think it is very cruel to demand they face it just because its your opinion they should.
It is just not so easy and simple and you really have to know all the dynamics in particular relationship to make conclusions.

StrayKat said:

And if they are aware and dont want to face the truth, where is the lie? You cant dictate people what they will face or not. If it makes them feel better not to know something, if it would shatter them to face the naked truth, I think it is very cruel to demand they face it just because its your opinion they should.
It is just not so easy and simple and you really have to know all the dynamics in particular relationship to make conclusions.

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I don't understand your reasoning, but I know that things aren't always black and white. I don't mean to come across that way.

If they are aware but don't want to face the truth, where is the lie?
If it makes them feel better not to know something, it would shatter them to face the naked truth, it's cruel to demand that they face it.

My mind is reeling from this, Kat.

You are dictating what they will face or not! And you are not doing it with their consent. Why? Because there is no honesty. There is no "hey, you know I am cheating, right? And you're okay with that? You still want to be in this relationship with me?"

Maybe I am being black and white here. Because in honesty, there is no gray.

I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is "to thine own self be true".

It is not selfish to be true to yourself, but in that, you will be true to others. You can't lie and deceive while at the same time be true to yourself. It's the way of the universe. That's when you don't have control over anyone but yourself. I do not see that as being cruel. I see that as loving and kind.

StrayKat said:

It is not always so easy nor black and white. There *can* be libido imbalance and still exist friendship and love. Sometimes people hope things will change, the other person may have some real mental or physical problems and it takes time to solve them. Takes time to even persuade someone to realize they might need professional help. And what do you do in that time if you simply said need sex to function properly, yet dont get it in a way or dose that would satisfy you? What if you are sexually attracted to that person still, apart from being friends and love them and maybe have children and house mortgage and many other things on top.
How is that easy to get out of then?

Relationships can be very complicated. People are complicated. And not everyone is always sure why they want something or even what they want. Or dont want.

I am all for communication. Talk, until you go blue in the face. But what if that changes nothing? What if other person shuts down and doesnt let you get close? What if they dont know the answers, however silly it may sound? Not everyone is aware of everything about themselves. What if they want but just cant <do whatever would make you happier>? But you love them still and dont want to leave.
What then? Live in celibate? What if your suppressed sex drive starts affecting things that it shouldnt in negative way?

It is not easy, nor simple to solve such things sometimes. And it may take quite a bit of time. Personally I hate lies but I have to wonder if the truth is the worse option in some cases. At least until you manage to get through some entangled mental bushes in your relationship to present said truth.

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Couldn't agree more. There are more questions than answers. It's just that while we deliberate and conjecture, others act, perhaps unwisely or mistakenly, but they act. Because there's all these tedious cliches about 'we only live once', 'we never regret what we do, only what we fail to do', etc. Personally, I don't have much respect for my own gender. I think there are darknesses about the male sex that women fail to fully appreciate. That the thin tegument of civilization and conventional morality are precarious things. They only need to be temporarily suspended for all manner of latent nastiness to surface. It's women's faith in these institutions of personal commitment that keep it all together. There's more along these lines - not strictly 'Literotica' stuff, which is why I suggested Personal Messaging. There are questions. And yet we are still alive, and must live to the fullest we're capable of...

tristantrotsky said:

Couldn't agree more. There are more questions than answers. It's just that while we deliberate and conjecture, others act, perhaps unwisely or mistakenly, but they act. Because there's all these tedious cliches about 'we only live once', 'we never regret what we do, only what we fail to do', etc. Personally, I don't have much respect for my own gender. I think there are darknesses about the male sex that women fail to fully appreciate. That the thin tegument of civilization and conventional morality are precarious things. They only need to be temporarily suspended for all manner of latent nastiness to surface. It's women's faith in these institutions of personal commitment that keep it all together. There's more along these lines - not strictly 'Literotica' stuff, which is why I suggested Personal Messaging. There are questions. And yet we are still alive, and must live to the fullest we're capable of...

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Hmm...this boggles me.

So, you speak of all of these cliches about how you only live once, only regret the choices you don't make, etc. I see where you're going with this. I couldn't agree more.

But, you and your lover have decided what is best for his wife? Because knowing the truth would destroy her? Because it's just easier to blame her for everything? Because she has only one life, and you and your lover have the right to decide for her how she is going to live it? Because in truth, there are undesirable consequences? In truth, your lover may have to accept ownership, face her pain, support her and see how his choices have hurt her.

I understand that we are not all the same, coming from the same awareness, but there are certain things that just aren't that difficult.

You're right, we are still alive. We MUST live to the fullest we are capable of. Then, why not live in truth? Do your part for the world and live in love and truth.

I have no sex drive but I'm way kinkier than my husband. Life is stranger than fiction, etc. Its been frustrating for the both of us before, but we can't imagine a reason that either of us would actually end things. Divorcing over sex seems like such a silly thing to me when the emotional benefits far outweigh all of the cons put together.

KoPilot said:

I have no sex drive but I'm way kinkier than my husband. Life is stranger than fiction, etc. Its been frustrating for the both of us before, but we can't imagine a reason that either of us would actually end things. Divorcing over sex seems like such a silly thing to me when the emotional benefits far outweigh all of the cons put together.

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Yes, yes, YES! I hear the argument often that a couple should just separate of divorce instead of one of them "cheating". It's just not that simple.

StrayKat said:

It is not always so easy nor black and white. There *can* be libido imbalance and still exist friendship and love. Sometimes people hope things will change, the other person may have some real mental or physical problems and it takes time to solve them. Takes time to even persuade someone to realize they might need professional help. And what do you do in that time if you simply said need sex to function properly, yet dont get it in a way or dose that would satisfy you? What if you are sexually attracted to that person still, apart from being friends and love them and maybe have children and house mortgage and many other things on top.
How is that easy to get out of then?

Relationships can be very complicated. People are complicated. And not everyone is always sure why they want something or even what they want. Or dont want.

I am all for communication. Talk, until you go blue in the face. But what if that changes nothing? What if other person shuts down and doesnt let you get close? What if they dont know the answers, however silly it may sound? Not everyone is aware of everything about themselves. What if they want but just cant <do whatever would make you happier>? But you love them still and dont want to leave.
What then? Live in celibate? What if your suppressed sex drive starts affecting things that it shouldnt in negative way?

It is not easy, nor simple to solve such things sometimes. And it may take quite a bit of time. Personally I hate lies but I have to wonder if the truth is the worse option in some cases. At least until you manage to get through some entangled mental bushes in your relationship to present said truth.

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I agree completely. A long term relationship/ marriage can be very complicated. Some spouses really do prefer a "Don't ask, don't tell" kind of arrangement.

I have been involved with married men. The thing that got me agitated by this post:

tristantrotsky said:

I am a direct beneficiary of this situation. My Boyfriend is married to a frigid uptight wife who does nothing to satisfy his needs. Hence the requirement to have me in his life, I do what his wife won't do, I do all the dirty little things that his wife won't. And I love it. I suck his cock. He deep-throats and face-fucks me. I swallow. He uses my bum too, when the mood takes him, and that's beautiful. His wife knows nothing about it - or pretends not to. And he goes home sexually well-satisfied. No-one's the loser. Is that what you want from your relationship…? If I had to rely on honesty and marital fidelity, hell, I'd get no cock-action at all…!

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was how he spoke about the wife. I have never, ever, spoke or thought about the wife of a lover in a negative way. I would not be with a man who spoke of his wife in that manner either. I do not tolerate disrespect. Their marriage and arrangement is none of my business. If I knew that my involvement with him was causing her pain--as in she knew about me and had mentioned her pain to me-I would back off immediately no matter how much I loved him.

ecstaticsub said:

Yes, yes, YES! I hear the argument often that a couple should just separate of divorce instead of one of them "cheating". It's just not that simple.



I agree completely. A long term relationship/ marriage can be very complicated. Some spouses really do prefer a "Don't ask, don't tell" kind of arrangement.

I have been involved with married men. The thing that got me agitated by this post:


was how he spoke about the wife. I have never, ever, spoke or thought about the wife of a lover in a negative way. I would not be with a man who spoke of his wife in that manner either. I do not tolerate disrespect. Their marriage and arrangement is none of my business. If I knew that my involvement with him was causing her pain--as in she knew about me and had mentioned her pain to me-I would back off immediately no matter how much I loved him.

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Absolutely. During my 35 years of open marriage, one hard-and-fast rule for me was that no lover of mine ever got to disrespect my husband more than once. Or their own partner, if they had one.

If they didn't respect the primary person in my life, that meant they didn't respect me either. The one time I broke that rule-- so infatuated with someone that I let her say whatever she wanted-- I ended up being treated to a real practical demonstration of her disrespect for me too.

Heh, I was actually coming from a place of strict monogamy, but either way, yeah... Decouple sex from romance moar pls.

Ski bums are boring in bed. I am moving on!

ecstaticsub said:

Yes, yes, YES! I hear the argument often that a couple should just separate of divorce instead of one of them "cheating". It's just not that simple.



I agree completely. A long term relationship/ marriage can be very complicated. Some spouses really do prefer a "Don't ask, don't tell" kind of arrangement.

I have been involved with married men. The thing that got me agitated by this post:


was how he spoke about the wife. I have never, ever, spoke or thought about the wife of a lover in a negative way. I would not be with a man who spoke of his wife in that manner either. I do not tolerate disrespect. Their marriage and arrangement is none of my business. If I knew that my involvement with him was causing her pain--as in she knew about me and had mentioned her pain to me-I would back off immediately no matter how much I loved him.

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This dialogue is going in circles. Why? because it's coming up against the extreme gender interface. Let me confide in you, in the war of the sexes I'm a conscientious objector. I'm on your side. I know the way guys talk when they're together. I know what guys do when there's not the restraining female element around. They cheat. That's what guys do. That's in their nature. That's the way they're hardwired. They always have and they always will. It's no use arguing logic and reason, logic and reason don't come into this. This is primal. Ten-thousand years of pseudo-civilisation is a flimsy veneer over this massive behavioral urge. Just because your sweet guy comes home to his suburbia each evening with the joint mortgage and the shared account does not mean he's any different. He's not. He's just got more to lose. If he tells you otherwise he's either deceiving you or himself. Any guy in the world, if he was offered the no-strings one-night shag with the absolute guarantee that no-one would ever find out… do you honesty think he'd turn it down? No. Maybe you don't believe this, maybe you don't want to believe this. But I'm on your side. I know.

tristantrotsky said:

Any guy in the world, if he was offered the no-strings one-night shag with the absolute guarantee that no-one would ever find out… do you honesty think he'd turn it down?

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Plenty of women would not turn it down either and never feel bad about it. Yet I can guarantee you some guys would actually feel guilty. Cheating is not gender exclusive. It depends on how the person is wired, not if the person is a man or a woman. There are honest men with morals and principles out there, just as there are liars and unscrupulous people, with the complete color chart in between. Men and women.

Life is just not black and white.

StrayKat said:

Plenty of women would not turn it down either and never feel bad about it. Yet I can guarantee you some guys would actually feel guilty. Cheating is not gender exclusive. It depends on how the person is wired, not if the person is a man or a woman. There are honest men with morals and principles out there, just as there are liars and unscrupulous people, with the complete color chart in between. Men and women.

Life is just not black and white.

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Amen to that...

tristantrotsky said:

This dialogue is going in circles. Why? because it's coming up against the extreme gender interface. Let me confide in you, in the war of the sexes I'm a conscientious objector. I'm on your side. I know the way guys talk when they're together. I know what guys do when there's not the restraining female element around. They cheat. That's what guys do. That's in their nature. That's the way they're hardwired. They always have and they always will. It's no use arguing logic and reason, logic and reason don't come into this. This is primal. Ten-thousand years of pseudo-civilisation is a flimsy veneer over this massive behavioral urge. Just because your sweet guy comes home to his suburbia each evening with the joint mortgage and the shared account does not mean he's any different. He's not. He's just got more to lose. If he tells you otherwise he's either deceiving you or himself. Any guy in the world, if he was offered the no-strings one-night shag with the absolute guarantee that no-one would ever find out… do you honesty think he'd turn it down? No. Maybe you don't believe this, maybe you don't want to believe this. But I'm on your side. I know.

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I do not think this is true. You seem to be really down on your own sex, which I find very interesting. I think this is a way for you to camouflage your guilt.

There are men and women that cheat and men and women that don’t cheat. To say that if any man had an opportunity to cheat that he would is really discrediting the male gender. There are men that prefer to be faithful and, *gasp* monogamous. There are also men who prefer not to be faithful and, *gasp* honest about it. We call it poly. There are also men that, given the opportunity for the no-strings, one-night shag, would actually go home and shag the crap out of their wives instead.

Men or women do not cheat because it’s the way they are made. While I do believe that evolution has a lot to do with the purpose, and therefore hardwired differences in the male and female sex drive, we are not reduced to just that. However, when these feelings or urges are repressed, then it becomes so strong that it seems to overshadow everything else. (believe me, I know, and I'm a *gasp* woman!)

We all have a personal value system. A sense of right and wrong. A sense of duty to the people in our lives. We have choices about how we will handle our relationships with others.

That’s why when someone is unfaithful, and their actions do not reflect their beliefs, they start feeling very guilty. Then, in an effort to deflect this guilt, they blame others, so they can perpetuate the cycle and justify their actions. I think that’s what you’re doing. I think that is why you have such strong opinions about the wife of your lover and the “male” species.

Cheating is not a gender thing. It’s a personal choice.

tristantrotsky said:

This dialogue is going in circles. Why? because it's coming up against the extreme gender interface. Let me confide in you, in the war of the sexes I'm a conscientious objector. I'm on your side. I know the way guys talk when they're together. I know what guys do when there's not the restraining female element around. They cheat. That's what guys do. That's in their nature. That's the way they're hardwired. They always have and they always will. It's no use arguing logic and reason, logic and reason don't come into this. This is primal. Ten-thousand years of pseudo-civilisation is a flimsy veneer over this massive behavioral urge. Just because your sweet guy comes home to his suburbia each evening with the joint mortgage and the shared account does not mean he's any different. He's not. He's just got more to lose. If he tells you otherwise he's either deceiving you or himself. Any guy in the world, if he was offered the no-strings one-night shag with the absolute guarantee that no-one would ever find out… do you honesty think he'd turn it down? No. Maybe you don't believe this, maybe you don't want to believe this. But I'm on your side. I know.

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Citations needed, otherwise this is just laughable horseshit.

KoPilot said:

Citations needed, otherwise this is just laughable horseshit.

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Observable horseshit though. I simply object to it being gendered so. I've never seen footage of a female bonobo or chimp with her wrist to her head saying "no no....I must not. For it would KILL Ralph if I did!"

The what why and how people work around that hardwiring is where things get interesting. Mainly it's all about making sure that our *stuff* stays in our *families*. Well that's pretty reductive and old school and we've had a lot of time to process these messages all other ways and have huge fucking fights about it.

But the bottom line is that humans eventually will want some strange no matter how great shit is at home. And they sublimate that or do it in some way, and the people who do it are pretty over being treated like they killed some puppies in a sack for doing things that people have done for as long as there have been people. The best are the reformed ones, as in I've done this and felt so much guilt therefore I must be sure everyone else feels even more guilt as I tell them not to do what I've done. I've seen just as much damage done in the name of transparency and honesty about every microsecond of our existence in couples.

The ability of many many people to be in a look the other way or don't-ask level of imperfect functioning as couples is constantly being ruined by people who have other better newer and fresher morality to impose, blind to the fact that they can't even get into a semi-functional relationship or maintain one themselves. Maybe it's not good enough for me personally, but I'm not going to throw little stones at the window every fucking night just to make sure no one inside can sleep for eight hours. That's the throwing of stones we've developed in this culture.

Without cheaters and heels - no literature worth reading. Nothing of interest. It's a fact and a facet. Know what you will and won't live with in a relationship and stick to that program. Trust, but verify. (I can't believe I quoted him.)

Maybe what drives people insane about cheating and the specter of cheating is some kind of co-dependence. Like if they have a life without me, my whole world is ruined.

Netzach said:

Observable horseshit though. I simply object to it being gendered so. I've never seen footage of a female bonobo or chimp with her wrist to her head saying "no no....I must not. For it would KILL Ralph if I did!"

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Oh yeah, I've read plenty of books that so kindly go out of their way to tell us all what we secretly know anyways. "Hard-wiring" means jack shit in the actual science of what people's brains do and look like and how they develop. The way things are right now, we are literally two steps away from beating girls every day from birth as a cultural norm and then turn around and claim that it's just part of their ~*~natural wiring~*~ as the ~*~female sex~*~ to flinch when they see a fist. Conditioning doesn't even exist as a concept to hardly anyone anymore. Fucking ridiculous.

Netzach said:

The what why and how people work around that hardwiring is where things get interesting. Mainly it's all about making sure that our *stuff* stays in our *families*. Well that's pretty reductive and old school and we've had a lot of time to process these messages all other ways and have huge fucking fights about it.

But the bottom line is that humans eventually will want some strange no matter how great shit is at home. And they sublimate that or do it in some way, and the people who do it are pretty over being treated like they killed some puppies in a sack for doing things that people have done for as long as there have been people. The best are the reformed ones, as in I've done this and felt so much guilt therefore I must be sure everyone else feels even more guilt as I tell them not to do what I've done. I've seen just as much damage done in the name of transparency and honesty about every microsecond of our existence in couples.

The ability of many many people to be in a look the other way or don't-ask level of imperfect functioning as couples is constantly being ruined by people who have other better newer and fresher morality to impose, blind to the fact that they can't even get into a semi-functional relationship or maintain one themselves. Maybe it's not good enough for me personally, but I'm not going to throw little stones at the window every fucking night just to make sure no one inside can sleep for eight hours. That's the throwing of stones we've developed in this culture.

Without cheaters and heels - no literature worth reading. Nothing of interest. It's a fact and a facet. Know what you will and won't live with in a relationship and stick to that program. Trust, but verify. (I can't believe I quoted him.)

Maybe what drives people insane about cheating and the specter of cheating is some kind of co-dependence. Like if they have a life without me, my whole world is ruined.

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I'm going to always and forever advise against cheating because of it's near-guarantee to turn into a form of emotional abuse if ever discovered, but once the cat's out of the bag, and as long as no one is suffering unwillingly, then that's their bed to make and I don't think it's anyone's business to tell them how to deal. There's no "right" way to cheat.

KoPilot said:

I'm going to always and forever advise against cheating because of it's near-guarantee to turn into a form of emotional abuse if ever discovered, but once the cat's out of the bag, and as long as no one is suffering unwillingly, then that's their bed to make and I don't think it's anyone's business to tell them how to deal. There's no "right" way to cheat.

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You nailed it, KP.

Monogamy, simply put, is sexual inclusiveness. It seems to be a common thing now for both genders to use as a means of controlling another person instead of a means of nurturing the relationship.

Either way, whether it’s the cheating being done in secret, or the partner withholding sex, it’s emotional abuse.

The only way to break the cycle is for someone to be honest. Until the cat is out of the bag, both partners are being emotionally abused. That’s a heavy thing to say, and even heavier to admit when you’re in the midst of it all.

KoPilot said:

Oh yeah, I've read plenty of books that so kindly go out of their way to tell us all what we secretly know anyways. "Hard-wiring" means jack shit in the actual science of what people's brains do and look like and how they develop. The way things are right now, we are literally two steps away from beating girls every day from birth as a cultural norm and then turn around and claim that it's just part of their ~*~natural wiring~*~ as the ~*~female sex~*~ to flinch when they see a fist. Conditioning doesn't even exist as a concept to hardly anyone anymore. Fucking ridiculous.



I'm going to always and forever advise against cheating because of it's near-guarantee to turn into a form of emotional abuse if ever discovered, but once the cat's out of the bag, and as long as no one is suffering unwillingly, then that's their bed to make and I don't think it's anyone's business to tell them how to deal. There's no "right" way to cheat.

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Pretty much agree it's always a bad idea, but that rarely stopped people from being people. Taking drugs recreationally - bad idea. Gambling - bad idea. Driving 100 in the middle of fuck-all - bad idea. All of these can have resonance beyond just you if things go wrong, but people are still going to continue being people. (assholes! If they'd just do it MY way...) Generally cheating is something that capitalism really enforces among heteros (though every demographic enjoys it equally) - you have to marry someone acceptable to the company more or less, but who wants to fuck someone acceptable to the company for the rest of your life?

What doesn't help is when the less savory aspects of human behavior are turned into a hand-wringing Roman Circus for public consumption rather than, you know, changing the script or the system that makes people do stupid shit more often and with less regard.

Why is this less of a freak-out in Europe? And it's not purely sexism, I think there's just as much of an acceptance of the fact that these married guys are not purely making mistresses of unmarried women - hidden behind a coating of ironclad denial. In the States we just can't stop beating people over the head with "honesty" for the sake of public entertainment. The majority of people banging the drum of "honesty" don't care how hard those blows land either - ever.

While there's no right way to cheat, what's really important information for people making altogether human and bad decisions? They tend to KNOW they're making a bad decision, but it's theirs to make. A poor person KNOWS that an investment in a six pack is not advancing their cause, but Jesus Christ, like ME telling them is helping?

Married fuckers of the world: Use rubbers. Make sure they're not going to be crazy and dangerous to you. Don't be crazy and dangerous to them. Take your emotional temperature and don't do it if you can't handle it. Really. You can never control how honest others will be with you, but you can control how honest you will be with yourself.

That's actual helpful advice. The rest is imposing your will on people you don't know from anyone.

All Good Ends Must Come To A Thing...

All_4_Love said:

I do not think this is true. You seem to be really down on your own sex, which I find very interesting. I think this is a way for you to camouflage your guilt.

There are men and women that cheat and men and women that don’t cheat. To say that if any man had an opportunity to cheat that he would is really discrediting the male gender. There are men that prefer to be faithful and, *gasp* monogamous. There are also men who prefer not to be faithful and, *gasp* honest about it. We call it poly. There are also men that, given the opportunity for the no-strings, one-night shag, would actually go home and shag the crap out of their wives instead.

Men or women do not cheat because it’s the way they are made. While I do believe that evolution has a lot to do with the purpose, and therefore hardwired differences in the male and female sex drive, we are not reduced to just that. However, when these feelings or urges are repressed, then it becomes so strong that it seems to overshadow everything else. (believe me, I know, and I'm a *gasp* woman!)

We all have a personal value system. A sense of right and wrong. A sense of duty to the people in our lives. We have choices about how we will handle our relationships with others.

That’s why when someone is unfaithful, and their actions do not reflect their beliefs, they start feeling very guilty. Then, in an effort to deflect this guilt, they blame others, so they can perpetuate the cycle and justify their actions. I think that’s what you’re doing. I think that is why you have such strong opinions about the wife of your lover and the “male” species.

Cheating is not a gender thing. It’s a personal choice.

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Thank you all for your considered and well-reasoned responses. I hadn't quite anticipated such a reaction to my initial playful blow-job indiscretion, but I'm delighted to follow the minutia of the ensuing dialogue. I wish there was some way I could demonstrate my appreciation to you all in the most appropriate way, by using my educated tongue to lap each and every sweet clit, regardless of marital status. I accept and respect your varied points of view. But on a final note I feel it relevant to say that throughout my many posts on the Forum, and my not-inconsiderable archive of fiction on 'Literotica' - which inevitably includes autobiographical elements, I have never ever had a single word of moral censure about sucking my married Boyfriend's big beautiful cock from any male reader. Only from you girls..! Make of that what you will...

tristantrotsky said:

I have never ever had a single word of moral censure about sucking my married Boyfriend's big beautiful cock from any male reader. Only from you girls..! Make of that what you will...

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I dont have moral censure about blowing a married man, I only have a moral censure about how he talks about his wife. The way yours does would convince me he was not worth my trust, my time and my blowjob skills.
Your mileage may vary and you may not care what kind of unreliable jerk you are blowing. To each their own.

tristantrotsky said:

by using my educated tongue to lap each and every sweet clit

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Finally! Mr. Tristan Trotsky! You say something that makes sense!
Something...
well...
reasonable!

I seem to have forgotten your previous indiscretions.