Constructing A Dialog

I’m having a little trouble getting the ball rolling on a crucial piece of dialog and I thought I might just kick it around here to see if I can get any ideas that will help.

Here’s my situation: I have a guy; the sweet, reserved kind, who really wants to screw this uber-hot girl. They’ve known each other for several years and he’s never shown any interest, but recently he’s fallen under her spell, hard.

She is notoriously easy, so right off the bat, the guy figures he’s got a reasonable chance with her if he plays his cards right. The question now being, how does he play his cards?

Some guys would be bold and just give her the ‘alpha male’ routine; always in her face, making moves on her, etc. But that’s just not in my guy’s character.

Frankly, I see him being more ‘polite’ about it. I kind of imagine him asking her whether she’d like to have sex with him. If she’s not inclined to say “yes”, then is there anything he can do that will get him laid?

I’m not suggesting he straight out says to her, “Would you sleep with me?”; he would shelter himself behind innuendo, at least at the beginning of such a conversation. That being said, I don’t think it sounds right that he’d just start of a conversation with even a veiled proposition like that. I think he’s just too tame and I think the whole conversation needs to get to sex with some subtlety. Hence my difficulties.

I’m also having problems figuring out how to manage the dialog that resolves the conversation.

See, I believe my woman would be inclined to politely reject the guy initially. But after this, I see them coming to an arrangement where the woman will screw the guy if he can get her some pot. This might seem like a bit of a silly deal, but the woman’s options for getting pot are limited in the context of my story, so she either needs to think outside the box or go without (which would suck for her as they’re having a week-long party and she wants to get the most out of it). Sex is no big deal to her, and the guy’s pretty cute, so I believe it’s completely within her character to agree to a deal like this.

My problem is how they both come to realize this is an amicable arrangement for them. She’s not exactly jonesing for the pot; it’s not like she’s just been hanging around waiting for some means of getting it. It’s more a case of the opportunity being worth seizing for her. But how do I make this opportunity come to mind?

I’d love to get some input from others on this. I don’t need a complete blueprint; just loose ideas might give me the pieces I need. Don’t be afraid to critique what I already have either. Does the pot-for-sex idea sound reasonable, or is it too far fetched?

Let him take her on a date.

In Groucho Marx's autobiographical volume HARPO SPEAKS he tells of overseeing some notorious Hollywood cocksman -- I forget whether it was Erroll Flynn or a Barrymore or Fairbanks or whomever -- ooze his seductive charms upon a sexy wench. What was the great lothario's enticing pickup line? Simple: "Hey baby, wanna fuck?"

IRL a date is probably a good idea, then to a private space. Some wine, and chocolate, and cannabis. A too-warm room, prompting removal of clothes. A shower, with scalp-scrubbing. Yada yada, with a background of small talk as social lubricant. It's easy.

Assuming that he's "sweet and reserved", as opposed to "awkward as fuck": He would feel things out, try to get a general impression of whether or not she's into him. Does she respond to his texts? Does she make eye contact often, does she smile back? If she seems at least a little interested, he'd ask her out on a date. He can do that in a sweet/reserved/polite way, he doesn't need to be all macho about it.

Here's the problem though: If she shows no interest (and you say she doesn't), and he really is a nice guy (as opposed to a douchey guy who only thinks of himself as a "nice guy"), he probably won't ask her out. Or alternately, ask her out, then take that initial "no" at face value and leave her alone.

So, uhm, the setup you're going for doesn't quite gel, in my opinion.

The guy thinks if he can just get her over to his apartment or go over to her apartment, he's got a pretty good chance of scoring with her. He's initial plan is to get her over to his place. He starts out asking for her to come over to give him advice on decorating his place. He doesn't like how it looks, has no eye for colors, has a limited budget for remodeling and wants her opinion on what should be the top priorities, etc. No go. He talks with her some more, trying to think of ways to get her to invite him to her place. Any maintenance work she wants done? No go. Eventually, he comes up with the idea of asking if she'd like to buy some pot from him. He's got some at home and he'd being willing to deliver it to her at her place. She lights up at the idea.

hylas_ said:

So, uhm, the setup you're going for doesn't quite gel, in my opinion.

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Yea, I agree, hylas. The author can't get anything going, because the character has no clue how to get things going. Even "notoriously easy" girls won't screw someone who can't figure out what to say or how to say it.

Put them together some other way. Your character is trying to tell you something, and you won't listen.

rj

rjordan said:

Yea, I agree, hylas.

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I'm on that page too, but maybe from a slightly different angle.

I don't see anything in the original description of the female character. In my life, "Uber hot" and "notoriously easy" have never overlapped. Why would an uber hot girl be easy to get? Low self esteem? It's a porn trope, I think.

So, in addition to being uber hot, she's also a prostitute. She's willing to swap sex for pot. Odd, since pot isn't addictive, which reduces the motivation for risky behavior. Pot's also pretty available these days, and legal in some places. I was a teen-ager the last time I thought that pot was a good party drug.

As you described her, it might be hard to formulate dialog with your female character. From your description she might not have many language skills.

How does it work that they've known each other for a while and, despite her apparent lack of character, he's suddenly hot for her?

But onto the original question...

If he can't get her out on a date then he'll probably never get between her legs. The route I envision would be to take her out, spend money on her, get her to laugh, and then get gradually more intimate before a simple question like "Your place or mine?"

Or he could just say "You're hot. Lets fuck." Maybe the sweet guy will have to get drunk to say that (and then perform so poorly in bed that she falls asleep). It's another porn thing. Any reader who actually believes "uber hot" and "notoriously easy" go together will probably think the line's a winner. Maybe it is. I've only tried it with women I was already in a relationship with. It worked then.

I'm gonna third hylas here and also empathize with the heat you might be feeling from getting way more than you bargained for, SFC.

I actually think your problem isn't that tough to hash out, but it lays bare a few other problems with your scenario. First of all, if the guy has suddenly fallen hard for the girl after knowing her for years and having no interest, it doesn't matter if he has the guts to come out with it or not. It's not rocket science. He'll suddenly be weirdly nice, or maybe he'll wall himself off emotionally for protection, or he'll make himself obvious in some subtle way. And if she's as experienced as you say she is, she's going to pick up on the change and put two and two together, and once she realizes that he can get pot, she'll have an excuse to call him on it and make an offer.

But there's the rub; anybody who's "easy" will naturally have a very liberal view of sex as something separate from romance; good, not-so-clean fun that relieves stress and tension. This isn't good or bad, of course, but that doesn't necessarily jive with the views of someone more sensitive, who would treat sex as something a little more sacred and tied closer to love. He wants her, sure, but he wants her to want him and not something he can get for her. If your hero isn't already aware of that problem, thus inspiring him to shut her down, he's going to be painfully aware when he's trying to go slow and soft and she, rolling her eyes, just wants him to stop fucking around and start fucking for real. At that point, one or both of them is going to pull their best Gob Bluth: "I've made a huuuuuuuuge mistake."

Now, if that's part of the story you're trying to tell, awesome. Go with God. But anything with your leads defined as they are without that kind of thought put into it is going to read as bland and dishonest, to be frank. You gotta remember, you're tapping into a frustration that 75% of anyone drawn into writing in general, never mind erotica, has felt in one way or another, so you're treading well-worn ground here. The only hope you have of standing out in a field like that is to dig down, deep as you can, into your characters, into your personal experiences, into your imagination, and see what you come up with.

Good luck to you.

When two characters in a scene can't figure out how to advance the action, I know I have the wrong characters interacting. If she doesn't want to, she's got her reasons.

And pot's not a reason to get laid. Any girl that gives it up for an ounce of weed is automatically trash. I don't care what she looks like, it's not worth it.

And if they've known each other that long, the guy is friend-zoned. It's not an impossible hole to get out of, but it will never be easy and it will rarely be believable. At the very least she'd make him work for it, hard. That's not a one-conversation project.

In my Rent Comes Due I have two characters who have been avoiding each other for several years. The reasons are complicated, but they boil down to the guy just missed his opportunity the first time and just didn't know how to proceed, and the girl simply wasn't ready. When they finally do sort it out, there are instant fireworks. The ratings say I made it work, but it was chapters of unrelated story, most of which the woman was barely mentioned, before I had them so much as say hello. It took that long for the guy to get his attitude right. It could not have happened on page one. I think that's what you need to do - get a long running start at making your characters interact. (Note: if you check it out, the first two characters you meet are NOT the couple I'm talking about.)

It almost sounds like the guy is in the "friend zone"Kant

Sounds like a working title to me. "Friend Zone to End Zone - Does he have what it takes to score?" Of course, to really make that work, she'd have to be a cheerleader and he'd have to be something other than a jock. Maybe a band geek.

I don't know, OP. Having been one of those sweet reserved guys once upon a time before I got corrupted by one of those girls, I'm having some trouble with scenario you sketched. But, maybe it's because I'm too close to it.

As Hylas said, my tendency in the way back was to accept no means no and will always be no. I just walked away and never tried again. Which did lead to some interesting conversation decades later when one or two of the gals fessed up to playing "hard to get" when they were really interested.

That said, if there was a time constraint, i.e. imminent graduation, where the guy saw his window closing forever, he might blurt something out after a meandering conversation that didn't even touch on his real interest.

If it were me, I might leave out the pot or any other outside influence. Have him blurt and walk away after she shoots him down. Then have her come back to him, intrigued because he did take no, and took it well. ("Ok. Thank you, Kayla. I just wanted to ask. Well, take care.")

Come on, folks. It's a...fantasy. It doesn't have to be believable. I'm sure there are a lot of readers who would enjoy the story as the OP outlined.

How about he follows her, his motives for that you decide, after she finds another guy to engage at the party. For whatever reason, her first choice can't complete his mission. Too drunk or he finishes too early and can't satisfy maybe. Our shy admirer can enter the scene and console our "uber-hot girl" (might want to put a little more thought into that by the way) the way she wants to be consoled.

I suggest that you figure out the circumstances that bring them together before you think about the dialog. They don't seem like a natural match, which can make a story interesting, but there has to be some plot device that brings them together. She's the hot girl, so we know why he's interested in her. What would make her interested in him, other than sweet-talking dialogue? Think of something that he does or some situation that brings them together in an unexpected way that makes her attracted to him. That's where drama and story interest come into play.

Also, from whose point of view is the story being told? His? That makes a difference, too.

When you figure out the characters and their motivations, and the circumstances that spark the attraction, the dialogue will come more easily.

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Uber hot I get. 'Notoriously easy' reminds me of how many millionaires there are because when you go onto a race track, there are all these tips that people give you and they are even in the official track programs too. All these hearsay assertions are all always true too. I myself have never backed a horse that someone tipped that failed to win. And, when women are 'notoriously easy,' they always are because by repute and hearsay - which is always true and correct 100% - you just have to THINK 'I want to fuck you' and they just drop their panties and open their legs right away wherever they are. Always. Easy.

I don't know what the OP's problem here is.