I'm a new author here...

Use to do some writing on another site until they decided it was a good idea to charge a membership fee, but I digress. I have posted two stories here and would like more feedback. Tried posting to the "New Story Advertisement" sticky but nothing. So I thought I would just throw it out here.

My author name here is :TheSensualist65
Profile here: https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=2862376&page=bio

The First is "Sweet Dreams" https://www.literotica.com/s/sweet-dreams-52 in the romance category. The tale of a young mans infatuation with an older female superior at work.

The second is "The Submissive: In the Beginning" https://www.literotica.com/s/the-submissive-in-the-beginning in the BDSM category. The story of a young woman's journey as she lets go of her inhibition and gives into her submissive desires.

They are at different ends of the erotica spectrum. One thing I am concerned with is my writing of female characters. I don't want them to come across as a generic male sex toy fantasy. Any pointer on that area would be greatly appreciated.

In December I am going to start a class on "Romance Writing" at the local community college. Also I may take one on writing basics to help with my grammar and punctuation so I don't have to drive the editors crazy.

I will appreciate feed back, constructive criticism, or even unadulterated ego stroking (wink), all to help get me writing again.

I read "Sweet Dreams" -- well, I skipped quite a bit where the story did not involve your characterization of Elizabeth. It's a good story and you're getting great feedback from your readers.

The story contains some minor editing problems, but most of the stories here do.

I'm not going to comment much on style, since I see that as a largely personal thing, but I will point out that you use quite a bit of repetition for no particular gain.

The story is a fantasy. I don't know why you would want Elizabeth to come off like anything but "a generic male sex toy fantasy." That is the character you gave her and the role she plays in the story, but your characterization was a stated concern, so...

I'm certainly not an expert, but first-person from a horny young man's point of view is probably not the best way to give a female character a more complex characterization. You could try third person. First person from her point of view might be difficult to write. You might also spend more time describing her actions and her reasons for doing things and less time (and repetition) describing her appearance.

Also, when you describe a woman with her cup size then you've already told me that the depth of her character is not your main concern. I usually stop reading when I see that or soon thereafter. I read on in this case so that I could comment more completely.

Thanks for your feed back. I do agree that in this story Elizabeth's character does lack depth. It is the first story I ever wrote. Its based on real life experience when I was 18 (1983) and working for Target. My other story "The Submissive" is written in third person and I spent more time developing the characters.

You also mentioned "when you describe a woman with her cup size then you've already told me that the depth of her character is not your main concern"... I actually agree with this. Its a lot like when a story describes a man as having 10" monster cock... I was told by a woman early on not to do that. It alienates the average male reader and a lot of women really aren't looking for that.

Thanks again I will keep it in mind when I start writing again.

John

It sounds that for the most part you already knew what I had to say. That's a good thing. I don't think I'm the one to redirect what you're doing -- especially since your voters show that you're doing very well.

Writing not so much from the point of view of an author as from the experience of a husband and father, if you have an interest in producing realistic characters for romantic stories then you will probably need a different approach to your women. Your readers would be mostly women and (generalizing) their tastes tend to reflect the deep-seated conflict between arousal and responsibility.

I read the submissive because it was shorter and have a few questions.

Men and women's bra size...is every woman only partially complete until her breast size is given?

There are no personality descriptions of either woman. One is a slut, which I guess is important because...? She doesn't sleep around in the story, in fact she seems to be wanting the upgrade from slave to sub, so I don't see where her being a slut adds anything to the story.

The word slender is overused, it stuck out since I saw it three times in the first two paragraphs. Here are your ladies

Kelly
slender, graceful arms
slender, petite frame
long auburn hair
auburn red hair and fair skin
b-cup
small rounded ass.


Karen
tall and slender
sexy, long, legs
rounded apple shaped ass
C-cup
golden blond hair
Slut


Nothing wrong with physical descriptions but the words you use are very similar for both and nothing stands out about either of them.

Now for my questions. D/s relationships are between the people involved so I can understand how Karen and her dom might want Kelly to participate as part of their relationship but how is this fulfilling to Kelly?

"How she desired to submit herself to a man, completely."

As I understand it, submission isn't just about being tied up and having bondage sex. She feels empty inside. I assumed you meant emotionally empty. Her fulfillment was to get tied up by her friend for a guy she doesn't know, have her "slut" friend finger and bite her then have sex with the guy. How is this different than having her friend set her up on a blind date with a guy that wants kinky sex? I was expecting some type of relationship development, where she met someone, got to know him, then they decided if they were right for each other. You should probably ask a sub, but I don't think they usually just call anyone master or have sex with someone because it's what he wants.

The sex. I felt you just threw in the

"She had secretly fantasized about Karen a few times"

so you could add a lesbian scene. It was like porn.

We know nothing about the guy, you say he is a dom so we just accept it because he spanks her and asks if she wants to cum. Karen is a sub because she kneeled and says "yes master". Kelly wants to be a sub because she calls a stranger master and wants to get tied up and punished. These relationships feel very shallow and not very believable.

The writing. Very easy to read, a little clipped, but that may have been intentional. A few paragraphs seemed long without a lot of substance but I didn't notice grammar or spelling errors to detract from the story.

This may be better titled as a bdsm journey. That sets up more of an expectation of sex versus a woman finding fulfillment.

The flashbacks with her husband were very good because you brought some mood into it. We could tell a part of the husband's personality by his reaction to using the tie. We had just a glimpse of Kelly as she talked about being the good wife and keeping her desires a secret. That was the start of a good foundation to make Kelly a person to identify with.

I thought the story didn't fit the title, the characters were very thin and the sex was removed. Your writing is very easy to read though. It was interesting enough to finish, which is a good thing and you have the ability to create some characters with life, similar to the flashback. You started a foundation but then moved onto the sex. It was a short story but you created a personality for the husband in his one sentence, so you have the ability to do it and do it well.

Thank You...

Finally a woman's point of view. And a direct, to the point honest one! I will be reading this over and taking notes. Still you summed it up in one very important line; "It was like porn". Which is why I get a lot more positive responses from men and less from women. That is what I have to learn to change in order to actually be able to write at the level I would like to.

You are right in that "There are no personality descriptions of either woman"... and the bra size thing has been mention before... Do you feel it would be better to use more vague descriptions letting the reader create their own mental image?

I've written several other stories but to me they read like straight up porn scenes and I am not comfortable posting them. Maybe growing up reading "Penthouse Letters" colored the way I write. Then again those stories taught me all about the importance of the female clitoris, for which I am eternally grateful. Damn... I'm actually going to have to read 50 shades! For research purposes only of course ;}

I will read over your feedback again like I said... I really appreciate your taking the time.
John

TheSensualist65 said:

You are right in that "There are no personality descriptions of either woman"... and the bra size thing has been mention before... Do you feel it would be better to use more vague descriptions letting the reader create their own mental image?

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Not exactly more vague, but show, don't tell.

Breast size and shape is easier to visualise as the size of satsumas, lemons, oranges, aubergines, melons and something like "enough to not quite need a bra for support, but too much to ignore if braless".

Penuche said:

Not exactly more vague, but show, don't tell.

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My favorite description among the stories I've written was "little more than a handful," delivered during the act, not as a means of characterizing the woman.

NotWise said:

My favorite description among the stories I've written was "little more than a handful," delivered during the act, not as a means of characterizing the woman.

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True, I only gave half an answer there - showing personality might be trickier to build into a short story but it can still be done - how does the person move? Is their choice of clothing, make up, and hair high or low maintenance? Relaxed or everything tidied into place to within an inch of its life? Colours? Textures? Even the choice of perfume (or lack of it) can be a clue. Voice? Eye contact? Physical stance?

Try to see the entire character, even if you'll only use them this once. eg If this person was given the wrong drink in a cafe, how would they react? When you can answer that easily, you'll see them clearly enough to tell me (or the readers) what they're like instead of an interchangeable blonde.

TheSensualist65 said:

Finally a woman's point of view. And a direct, to the point honest one! I will be reading this over and taking notes. Still you summed it up in one very important line; "It was like porn". Which is why I get a lot more positive responses from men and less from women. That is what I have to learn to change in order to actually be able to write at the level I would like to.

You are right in that "There are no personality descriptions of either woman"... and the bra size thing has been mention before... Do you feel it would be better to use more vague descriptions letting the reader create their own mental image?

I've written several other stories but to me they read like straight up porn scenes and I am not comfortable posting them. Maybe growing up reading "Penthouse Letters" colored the way I write. Then again those stories taught me all about the importance of the female clitoris, for which I am eternally grateful. Damn... I'm actually going to have to read 50 shades! For research purposes only of course ;}

I will read over your feedback again like I said... I really appreciate your taking the time.
John

Click to expand...

Np, I am glad you found some value in it. When it comes to describing women it depends on your audience. If you are catering to men, then what you are doing works. If you want more women to enjoy it, you can always write from a man's point of view but include emotion or what he thinks. Just as an example, you could have written your story from the dom point of view and described kelly.

"He opened the door to the basement and tread with purposefully heavy steps. He liked the way the stairs creaked, heightening the anticipation and fear of the new slaves. Looking down at his feet he waited until he was at the bottom stair before taking a look at Karen's offering. Pausing for a moment to let the silence settle, he slowly lifted his head.

His eyes went immediately to Karen, her blonde hair spilling, blah blah

Then to the new offering, Kelly. He started at her feet, pale pink toenails straining, barely touching the floor and he gave a silent nod of approval for Karen's dilgence. Her friendship with Kelly didn't influence the task he had given her and he was pleased to know those bonds were not stronger than his.

His eyes rising to her calves, he could see them shaking, slim but defined. Karen mentioned that she worked out a few times a week and he wondered about her endurance. Usually that came later, but Kelly was eager and he decided he would test her boundaries tonight, blah blah."

You could also have him look at her full on and describe what he sees. Put some of his thoughts into it. Have those thoughts support the personality you want us to see.

From a woman's point of view you could weave her physical description in where it makes sense instead of using the list method. When she flashes back to her husband, maybe she could remember how it was her red hair that attracted him at the gym. At lunch Karen could comment on her makeup or clothes (women do that) and maybe Kelly wears something low cut, showing her cleavage, trying to be seen as less cute and more beautiful. There are so many ways to describe women and add personality. You might just need to try out a few approaches to see what you like and how your readers respond.

Penuche

So I think what your saying is, its not just in the details but when and how they are delivered. Adding them in as the story keeps flowing. Opposed to what I did which is stopping the story and throwing out a complete description.
My intention was to show Kelly's feelings of insecurity about her own appearance as she compared herself to Karen. Looking back over it, it really didn't come out that way.
Thanks

NotWise

"little more than a handful," descriptive but not crude... Good line!

Iceprincess12
Once again I am taking notes... I was writing in third person but for some reason kept it from Kelly's perspective. Where there is no reason I couldn't have switch up like you did in what you wrote by going to the perspective of the Dom. I believe its called "third person omniscient point of view".

I love what you wrote and the way you added in the details ties directly in with what Penuche said. You gave detail, pink toe nails etc. with out a break in the story.

All Good stuff... Thank you again!

TheSensualist65 said:

They are at different ends of the erotica spectrum. One thing I am concerned with is my writing of female characters. I don't want them to come across as a generic male sex toy fantasy. Any pointer on that area would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

I read "Sweet Dreams" and I agree with NotWise on this. Pretty much everything you tell the reader about her boils down to:
- she's physically attractive (John describes her as "sophisticated" but I didn't see anything to flesh this out)
- she wants to fuck John

Plenty of readers will be happy with those choices (I will say, EC might have been a better category than Romance) but it is very much male wish-fulfillment. If you want to flesh out a female character, some considerations:

- Think about her backstory. Give her some interests and priorities that aren't directly working toward to our hero's sexual gratification. Maybe even put them into conflict.
- Think about what sex means for her - what are the stakes?

The scenario you describe seems far more dangerous for her, socially speaking, than for Dave. If they get found out, Dave can expect to be congratulated by his peers for bagging the Hot Boss. Liz can expect to be shamed for it - being a single mother is already halfway to a scarlet 'A' - and if they both get fired for it, that's much more of a problem for Liz (needs to support herself and daughter) than it is for Dave (can fall back on parents).

That doesn't mean she won't have sex with Dave, but it's likely to affect how she approaches it. If I was in her shoes, I'd make damn sure to tell Dave how important it is that he keeps his mouth shut, doesn't tell ANYBODY, and I'd be looking for somewhere away from the workplace to have my fun. (When you mentioned her daughter was off staying with an aunt, I thought that was where you were going.)