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More evidence that Islam is based on...

Urm...

From the dates given in the article, it appears that they almost exactly coincide with the supposed life of Mohammed. You're taking the earliest date given and using it as the "HARD" date of writing?

And from that you came up with that Islam is an offshoot of Christianity and therefore it's a major victory for you over something? (which is what the wink emote appears to indicate).

Why couldn't this fragment, given the carbon date range - have been inked in 630 AD by the prophet himself?
 
Someone doesn't know that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Abrahamic religions?

That explains that this would be a revelation to him. :rolleyes:
 
4est_4est_Gump said:
Syriac Christianity and its version of the Bible.

;) ;)

The oldest Koran (fragments) found predate Mohammed...

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015...est-korean-may-predate-muhammad/?intcmp=hpbt4
Click to expand...

I doubt you have read the Koran. If you had you would know that it was inspired by Judaism and Christianity.

Mohammed was probably illiterate. His knowledge of the Bible is not profound. It resembles the knowledge of an adult who has never read the Bible, but who remembers Bible stories from Sunday school.

Although Mohammed claimed to be God's greatest prophet the Koran does not mention any of the writing prophets. It is difficult to express the theology of the Old Testament prophets in stories that can be understood by a child.
 
The_Trouvere said:
Mohammed was probably illiterate. His knowledge of the Bible is not profound. It resembles the knowledge of an adult who has never read the Bible, but who remembers Bible stories from Sunday school.
Click to expand...

That's because he was an agent for an uncle's caravan trade in an economic climate that was saturated with Hebrew business practices...

...his familiarity with the Jews and their story deepened when, at 25, his wealthy, 40-year-old merchant boss and he married and his commercial (thus social) involvement with Jews grew even more.

After his night ride to the dome, big Mo instructed that all prayers to his new vision be directed west to Jerusalem...

...but after being completely rebuffed by the Jews he interacted with everyday as he pimped his new dogma for their endorsement, and after his own countrymen drove him out of Mecca with the threat of assassination for the very same reason, Mo returned to violently conquer Mecca 5 or 6 years later and ordered that all prayers to Allah be redirected east to its new home there.

Hebrew influence on Mo's life feasibly explains why what we know of the Koran today reflects so much of the same Old Testament tone as the Torah...

...while the New Covenant of God to his children is totally different in its appeal.
 
kbate said:
Urm...

From the dates given in the article, it appears that they almost exactly coincide with the supposed life of Mohammed. You're taking the earliest date given and using it as the "HARD" date of writing?

And from that you came up with that Islam is an offshoot of Christianity and therefore it's a major victory for you over something? (which is what the wink emote appears to indicate).

Why couldn't this fragment, given the carbon date range - have been inked in 630 AD by the prophet himself?
Click to expand...

When and who and how many years later have we been told that the Koran was written?

It's in the article. Arabic coin of the era shows a man holding a cross.

It could have been a religion introduced by missionaries.

Early Christianity took many forms,

based on local and apostle.

;) ;) :cool:
 
The_Trouvere said:
I doubt you have read the Koran. If you had you would know that it was inspired by Judaism and Christianity.

Mohammed was probably illiterate. His knowledge of the Bible is not profound. It resembles the knowledge of an adult who has never read the Bible, but who remembers Bible stories from Sunday school.

Although Mohammed claimed to be God's greatest prophet the Koran does not mention any of the writing prophets. It is difficult to express the theology of the Old Testament prophets in stories that can be understood by a child.
Click to expand...

You've never studied the scholars who have researched and advanced this theory nor examined their evidence. The Koran reads so bizarrely because a lot of it is translated Syriac scripture.

:cool:

The Haddiths are where you find the "history" and being well after the fact, could very well have been reverse engineered to turn Christianity into a unique "Arab" institution. Otherwise, why would they not elevate one of their own gods from their pagan pantheon and make him the one true god. That's how most religions evolved. Instead, they piggy-backed on existing religions and their one true god.

MISSIONaries...
 
bronzeage said:
Well, this will certainly change the thinking of all the Muslims in the world.
Click to expand...

Typical Liberal sarcasm meant to dismiss, out of hand, a subject on which they are totally ignorant.

:rolleyes:

louCfer, aka busybody needs some playmates, he's more on your mental level. And I use mental with more than one meaning...
 
eyer said:
That's because he was an agent for an uncle's caravan trade in an economic climate that was saturated with Hebrew business practices...

...his familiarity with the Jews and their story deepened when, at 25, his wealthy, 40-year-old merchant boss and he married and his commercial (thus social) involvement with Jews grew even more.

After his night ride to the dome, big Mo instructed that all prayers to his new vision be directed west to Jerusalem...

...but after being completely rebuffed by the Jews he interacted with everyday as he pimped his new dogma for their endorsement, and after his own countrymen drove him out of Mecca with the threat of assassination for the very same reason, Mo returned to violently conquer Mecca 5 or 6 years later and ordered that all prayers to Allah be redirected east to its new home there.

Hebrew influence on Mo's life feasibly explains why what we know of the Koran today reflects so much of the same Old Testament tone as the Torah...

...while the New Covenant of God to his children is totally different in its appeal.
Click to expand...

To the west, it was also heavily sprinkled with an emerging monotheistic Christianity. The only difference is was that it was not yet truly Greek, so they with with a singularity, not a trinity.

;) ;)
 
Islam is an offshoot of Judaism as is Christianity. Jesus and Moses get more screen time than almost anyone in the Koran and even Mary gets a nod.
Seems to me that anyone "surprised" that Islam is based on other religions is not really paying attention.
 
Oh_That_Guy said:
Islam is an offshoot of Judaism as is Christianity. Jesus and Moses get more screen time than almost anyone in the Koran and even Mary gets a nod.
Seems to me that anyone "surprised" that Islam is based on other religions is not really paying attention.
Click to expand...

We're just debating on the actual transmission or mechanism. Some are content to go with what they have always just assumed based only on the claim of the believers, and some are inquisitive. It is said that the Koran led the Arabic conquests, but the timeline suggests that it may have been a lagging indicator.

My point still remains, if you have your own gods, why do you reject them and adopt a foreign one, redesigned to your culture? Usually that happens by conquest or conversion and the first Muslims may have actually been Christian converts.
 
Oh_That_Guy said:
Islam is an offshoot of Judaism as is Christianity. Jesus and Moses get more screen time than almost anyone in the Koran and even Mary gets a nod.
Seems to me that anyone "surprised" that Islam is based on other religions is not really paying attention.
Click to expand...

It isn't based off other religions. Muslims claim that Muhammad is the last truthful prophet. How can they make that claim without the mention of other prophets? It has nothing to do with based off.
 
smoothg103rd said:
It isn't based off other religions. Muslims claim that Muhammad is the last truthful prophet. How can they make that claim without the mention of other prophets? It has nothing to do with based off.
Click to expand...

You've already previously proved how clueless you are about Islam.

:eek:

Why keep driving the point home?

:eek: :eek:

Has it ever occurred to you that he could have claimed to be the true (only) prophet? That he could have been a representative of the one true Arabic God from their pagan pantheon?

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
4est_4est_Gump said:
We're just debating on the actual transmission or mechanism. Some are content to go with what they have always just assumed based only on the claim of the believers, and some are inquisitive. It is said that the Koran led the Arabic conquests, but the timeline suggests that it may have been a lagging indicator.

My point still remains, if you have your own gods, why do you reject them and adopt a foreign one, redesigned to your culture? Usually that happens by conquest or conversion and the first Muslims may have actually been Christian converts.
Click to expand...

Yes, the first Muslims were Jews and Christians. That's not a secret. Christians adpoted a "new" God, Jews didn't buy His family tree. Muslims said "He was probably our greatest prophet but we're siding with the Jews on the rest. Plus, we'll take Moses along because he was badass."
I'm very sure it was said exactly like that.
Anyway, you don't seem to actually know much about Islam if you're arguing this.
 
4est_4est_Gump said:
You've already previously proved how clueless you are about Islam.

:eek:

Why keep driving the point home?

:eek: :eek:

Has it ever occurred to you that he could have claimed to be the true (only) prophet? That he could have been a representative of the one true Arabic God from their pagan pantheon?

:eek: :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

That would've been a false claim if they were others before him. Why lie?
 
smoothg103rd said:
It isn't based off other religions. Muslims claim that Muhammad is the last truthful prophet. How can they make that claim without the mention of other prophets? It has nothing to do with based off.
Click to expand...

The Koran mentions all kinds of prophets, Moses and Jesus being the biggest two.
It's Abrahamic like Judaism and Christianity. How do you not know this?
 
Oh_That_Guy said:
Yes, the first Muslims were Jews and Christians. That's not a secret. Christians adpoted a "new" God, Jews didn't buy His family tree. Muslims said "He was probably our greatest prophet but we're siding with the Jews on the rest. Plus, we'll take Moses along because he was badass."
I'm very sure it was said exactly like that.
Anyway, you don't seem to actually know much about Islam if you're arguing this.
Click to expand...

Arabs were not Jews or Christians. They were pagans. There were Jewish enclaves and they were separate.

They worshipped around the same meteor that still sits in Mecca...

:rolleyes:

That's why they did not convert, but instead decided to claim and replace the chosen people with the Arab people and translate Syriac scripture into Arabic which is why the Haddiths had to spend so much time "explaining" the garbled transmission into something the followers could understand.
 
Oh_That_Guy said:
The Koran mentions all kinds of prophets, Moses and Jesus being the biggest two.
It's Abrahamic like Judaism and Christianity. How do you not know this?
Click to expand...

I already said, I I know that. Muhammad claim as the last prophet would've been invalid if he doesn't mention the others. You acting like he is telling his followers to follow their words. He isn't.
 
smoothg103rd said:
That would've been a false claim if they were others before him. Why lie?
Click to expand...

To assume the credibility of established religions in order to promulgate a fraud.

;) ;)

The pagans had an inferiority complex and were weak compared to the west and decided to emulate the west and appear just as strong.
 
4est_4est_Gump said:
To assume the credibility of established religions in order to promulgate a fraud.

;) ;)

The pagans had an inferiority complex and were weak compared to the west and decided to emulate the west and appear just as strong.
Click to expand...

Were you there? No? Then stfu.
 
4est_4est_Gump said:
Arabs were not Jews or Christians. They were pagans. There were Jewish enclaves and they were separate.

They worshipped around the same meteor that still sits in Mecca...

:rolleyes:

That's why they did not convert, but instead decided to claim and replace the chosen people with the Arab people and translate Syriac scripture into Arabic which is why the Haddiths had to spend so much time "explaining" the garbled transmission into something the followers could understand.
Click to expand...

Before Islam I don't know what they did with the rock although I know it was around. Islam says it fell to Adam and Even as a gift from God to mark the spot of the first alter. Mohammed put it in as a cornerstone. Also supposed to be pure white before sin touched it but whatever.
There were Arab Christians and Jews well before Islam came along and some of them made the foundation for Islam. All? I'm sure not. The very first? No idea.
 
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