Feedback wanted

So, someone recently left a useful comment in one of my stories which pointed out the frequent use of the word 'that'. It was right there, and yet I hadn't noticed it, till it was brought to my attention. The next story I wrote I kept that in mind and lo and behold I felt my sentences didn't sound as clumsy anymore. So I've decided to actively seek feeddback here.

Why, you ask? Am I a writer by trade or someone just writing their fantasies, what am I looking for?

The answer is neither. I'm simply someone who sometimes enjoys writing and I believe in being (or at least trying to be) good at anything I do.

So, that's a long winded way for me to say that I'm looking for feedback on all the stories I've posted this year. My stories link can be found in my sig.

You can start with the most recent listed below.
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I'm currently working on a Romance: More Than Friends

Chapter 1
Chapter 2

With this story I'm trying to work including realistic details. I've noticed that the majority of the readers are American and outside of Nonhuman they tend to lose interest in stories with weird names so even though I've never been to America I'm trying to make a story with characters that appear American.

Till now I've always tried to carefully avoid giving a setting to my stories so they could come across as something that could happen anywhere in the world but I like details and while I find it easier to create fantasy worlds, I'm finding it more difficult to recreate the real and existing one.

I know the dialogue doesn't sound authentic- and I'm a long way to go before I can get to that level of writing.


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Minotaur - NonConsent

When I wrote this I didn't have a title in mind and eventually ended up with Minotaur just because... well you may see the (extremely) tenuous link once you read the story.

I've wondered what would have sounded better. Even the description is one I wasn't too happy with but couldn't think of anything better at the time.

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Thanks in advance

So, you are looking for critical comments (or critiques) not just a bunch of platitudes and "back slapping."

I think I've read one of your stories before, but I'll have a look at those stories specifically and see if I can be of any help.

LWulf said:

So, you are looking for critical comments (or critiques) not just a bunch of platitudes and "back slapping."

I think I've read one of your stories before, but I'll have a look at those stories specifically and see if I can be of any help.

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Yes, constructive criticism is what I'm looking for. I know there are a bunch of grammar errors as well as typos as I tend to get impatient once I finish a story. Translation- I feel compelled to post soon as I'm done and get restless if it sits on my computer unsubmitted.

I've realised that I also use 'had' a lot. Need to work on that.

Basically, I'm looking for those inbuilt flaws rather than simple case of oversight types.

Thank you.

Yup, "that" was something my wife had pointed out to me early on.

Most of the time if you have that in a sentence and read it out loud with and without it you will find it is not needed and little tricks like that can help keep word count down(for most, I'm hopeless with that)

Some other words are started and began

I began rubbing her clit can be I rubbed her clit same with started.

Almost many times is a weak word.

Her almost ivory skin. Was it ivory or not?

he was almost yelling. Was he or wasn't he?

Now it is a good word, in some cases "Fuck, I almost hit that dog!" for instance.

But its a word to watch.

And, also and my fav from when I first started "actually" most of the time that word is innecessary

Haven't forgotten about this.

I started with chapter's 1 & 2, but came to a screeching stop after the first paragraph. I don't read stories with kids in them. I know it doesn't have any sex in it, so it's just my own hangup.

I started reading Minotaur and feel I'm going to be editorializing instead of critiquing, unless you just want to be made aware that there are some awkward phrases (for instance) and you'll figure them out yourself?

Frankly, I'm a little unsure how to proceed regarding "inbuilt flaws rather than simple case of oversight types." Knowing which is which means I know where you intended a mistake opposed to knowing where you unintentionally made a mistake.

@ LWulf- The kids in the story grow into the adult protagonists of the story before the end of the page but I can understand why you wouldn't want to read it anyway.

As far as what kind of feedback I'm looking for goes, if you refer to lovecraft's post above yours you'll notice the kind of common issues he had that were pointed out to him, that's what I'm looking for. i would be willing to accept any form of feedback though and when it comes to Minotaur, I was more curious to hear what other authors would've named it as well as described it because I was sitting and scratching my head about both and wasn't particularly pleased with what I went with in the end.


@ lovecraft- I tend to use a lot of fillers when I talk. I'd like to believe I do not succumb to it while writing but then again I've never looked critically at my own work.

If you get the chance look for recurring mistakes.

I realised one stupid thing that I did with More than Friends. I stuck to the English spelling instead of going with the American ones (no wonder I got a comment saying that I should proof first).

Rule of thumb: Good writing flows, even with errors; bad writing is a path filled with obstacles resisting flow even when the prose is correct.

Lemme see if I can find a few examples of what I mean.

http://www.amazon.com/March-Violets...=UTF8&qid=1404650450&sr=1-9#reader_0142004146

MARCH VIOLETS by Philip Kerr, a good example of flow.

Here is an example of clunky prose:
http://www.amazon.com/Boot-Tracks-Matthew-F-Jones/dp/1933372117#reader_B00CB1CKE0

BOOT TRACKS by Matthew F. Jones

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

Rule of thumb: Good writing flows, even with errors; bad writing is a path filled with obstacles resisting flow even when the prose is correct.

Lemme see if I can find a few examples of what I mean.

http://www.amazon.com/March-Violets...=UTF8&qid=1404650450&sr=1-9#reader_0142004146

MARCH VIOLETS by Philip Kerr, a good example of flow.

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Thank you, JBJ. I'd rather you point out the flaws in my work- examples of where poor writing distracted from the narrative- and how you would have gone about it.

My learning style is more kinesthetic and I lack the patience to observe and copy.

subdued_passion said:

Thank you, JBJ. I'd rather you point out the flaws in my work- examples of where poor writing distracted from the narrative- and how you would have gone about it.

My learning style is more kinesthetic and I lack the patience to observe and copy.

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I have the same issue. You must be a closet musician as musicians let the notes fly and think about errors later.

That said, I suggest you master one problem at a time. THAT goes between 2 clauses, and works when one of the clauses is subordinant, and the other is independent. Then move on to HAD. HAD HAD is proof you've hit the ball into the tall weeds.

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

I have the same issue. You must be a closet musician as musicians let the notes fly and think about errors later.

That said, I suggest you master one problem at a time. THAT goes between 2 clauses, and works when one of the clauses is subordinant, and the other is independent. Then move on to HAD. HAD HAD is proof you've hit the ball into the tall weeds.

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You identified 'that' for me in the comment you left on one of my stories. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've identified my abominable usage of 'had' as well- spotted it while I was writing. Which is also what made me realise (I use 'realise' a lot too- ugh!) that (double ugh!) there are probably a lot of others I'm not seeing.

subdued_passion said:

@ LWulf- The kids in the story grow into the adult protagonists of the story before the end of the page but I can understand why you wouldn't want to read it anyway.

As far as what kind of feedback I'm looking for goes, if you refer to lovecraft's post above yours you'll notice the kind of common issues he had that were pointed out to him, that's what I'm looking for. i would be willing to accept any form of feedback though and when it comes to Minotaur, I was more curious to hear what other authors would've named it as well as described it because I was sitting and scratching my head about both and wasn't particularly pleased with what I went with in the end.

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Yeah, I figured that was the direction you were going in. I just adamantly refuse to read a story (especially one that goes erotic) that in any way shape or form involves kids.
I know you understand this, and why I am belaboring the fact is just because I am hyper nervous about getting into a slippery slope situation.

Well, that makes my job easier. I can throw out about 95% of the things I was going to nit pick about. Understand, some elements go to a writer's style, while some usages come across as "awkward." For example someone else's story I was commenting on used the term "glaring" when the writer described a female character who was looking longingly at the crotch of a male character. Is it wrong? Not really, but it's subjective and comes across as awkward.

"Glaring" to me, means; eyes open and alert, pointedly and with menace looking at a person (or rarely an object). In the context the writer was using, I think a better word to use would have been "gazing" or perhaps "looking lazily" even "longingly" as I used before, which would suggest a dreamlike and/or unintentionally but openly promiscuous viewing. "Glaring" could also be used to convey that the female character was looking "hungrily," but that wasn't the impression I got from all other descriptions of the character, the writer used. That writer was describing someone who was timid and abashed, while "glaring" suggests unabashed. Is it possible for a timid character to suddenly be unabashed? Most certainly, but the writer should describe the situation far better if that is the case. You have to lead the reader, not jerk them around. That goes to "flow" as someone else already pointed out.

Words don't only convey meaning but also imply feelings. While stylistically speaking, someone can use whatever word or phrase of words they wish to, it ultimately falls on the reader to either appreciate that use or, confused and/or irritated, stop reading because of that use.

LWulf said:

blah blah blah

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Long story short, 95% of what I was going to say was singular instances and not repetitive uses like using "had" excessively, etc.

If you prefer just that, as I said, that makes my job much much easier.

LWulf said:

Long story short, 95% of what I was going to say was singular instances and not repetitive uses like using "had" excessively, etc.

If you prefer just that, as I said, that makes my job much much easier.

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To put it simply, I'm trying to identify my blind spots. That's the first step for me.


I was also seeking specific feedback on the stories I linked in the OP.

1. With the romance, I wished to know how effective I was in recreating a setting I am not familiar with but one which exists in the real world and readers are familiar with.

2. With the noncon story I wished to what title and description someone else would've gone with.

subdued_passion said:

2. With the noncon story I wished to what title and description someone else would've gone with.

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Story title. Check. Let me re-read the whole thing and come back in a few ticks to make suggestions*.

*That depends on if I have my creative light switch turned on or not.

Minotaur - I stewed about it for a bit. Thoughts of titles like "Longings" came to mind, but they are just as surreal and metaphoric as "Minotaur." I think, to a degree "Minotaur" is just as suitable as any other.

On the simpler side of things, "Clothespin" seemed a poignant object reference at the end.

On the point of giving feedback, my pride feels stung or at least it feels like any editorializing I was doing was going to fall on deaf ears, so I won't point out that something like "gonna to" is a redundant use of a slang contraction of "going to" so without the slang, "gonna to" means "going to to."

As I said, that is more editorializing than giving a critique which isn't meant to say how to correct what a writer has done.

More than Friends Ch 1.


1. The first four paragraphs are backstory . . . and boring. Incorporate relevant information into a story through dialogue or within the narrative as the story progresses. Grab the reader from the start.


2. Watch for repetition. One example came early regarding their ages.

Yvonne was older than Janice by only two years

while the slightly younger Janice


3. Without reading more of the story, I wondered how important it was for the reader to know everything here:

Edward's parents had left France after having lived there for fifteen years and moved to their city when his father got a promotion on the condition that he would manage sales and distribution for their New York sector. They bought the largest house in their neighbourhood and quickly settled into the community that was eager to accommodate someone of their wealth and standing.

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Does the fact his parents lived in France fifteen years add to the story? Do we have to know what his father did or that the move had conditions?


4. Dialogue goes into a separate paragraph. As written, I struggled to find it amongst the text.

The girl squinted at him and then at her friend on her knees. She must've recognised the soundness of his argument because she took his hand and hauled herself up. Then she leaned towards the boy still on the ground. (towards is British English. Toward is American English. Whichever you use, remain consistent throughout the story)

"If you ever act like a shithead to Janice again I will beat the shit outta you."

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5. Punctuation and grammar errors stopped me several times.


I didn't read far but hope this helps.

Just my opinion

LWulf said:

On the point of giving feedback, my pride feels stung or at least it feels like any editorializing I was doing was going to fall on deaf ears, so I won't point out that something like "gonna to" is a redundant use of a slang contraction of "going to" so without the slang, "gonna to" means "going to to."

As I said, that is more editorializing than giving a critique which isn't meant to say how to correct what a writer has done.

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The example you've shown above is more an error of oversight, unlike the 'toward' example provided by lynn below (I didn't know it was toward in American English).

I cannot expect you to know the extent of my knowledge so it is probably better for you to point out everything you felt was wrong. And if possible provide corrections or how you would've gone about it.

_Lynn_ said:

1. The first four paragraphs are backstory . . . and boring. Incorporate relevant information into a story through dialogue or within the narrative as the story progresses. Grab the reader from the start.

I needed this structure. I should've gone with dialogue but then I would've ended up with an entire chapter of just the backstory.


2. Watch for repetition. One example came early regarding their ages.

Yvonne was older than Janice by only two years

while the slightly younger Janice

Not in the same or even consecutive paras. I wanted to emphasize the age difference.

3. Without reading more of the story, I wondered how important it was for the reader to know everything here:



Does the fact his parents lived in France fifteen years add to the story? Do we have to know what his father did or that the move had conditions?

It was needed to understand why. I know it's more interesting to go back and forth in a narrative but I'm trying to stick to a linear structure.

4. Dialogue goes into a separate paragraph. As written, I struggled to find it amongst the text.

Yeah. I was uncertain about this myself. I usually separate dialogue but (I'll not bore you with the reasons now) went this way with this series.

I realised after posting the second chapter that I had not followed the American English spellings- which was extremely stupid because the whole purpose of this experiment was to see if I could write the story without anyone suspecting that it was written by a foreigner who's never been there.


5. Punctuation and grammar errors stopped me several times.

Considering you didn't read far I'm guessing this is your polite way of saying it was shite.

I didn't read far but hope this helps.

Just my opinion

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Thank you to both of you for taking the time out to do this. Don't mind it if I come across as defensive- arguing is just my way of trying to understand something.

Are you helped with contrasts and comparisons of WHAT IS with PLAN B?

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

Are you helped with contrasts and comparisons of WHAT IS with PLAN B?

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Yes, variations are a part of evolution.

I'll add some replies, in blue this time.

1. The first four paragraphs are backstory . . . and boring. Incorporate relevant information into a story through dialogue or within the narrative as the story progresses. Grab the reader from the start.

I needed this structure. I should've gone with dialogue but then I would've ended up with an entire chapter of just the backstory.

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You needed the structure? What about the readers, though? Do you want them to enjoy the story, too?

2. Watch for repetition. One example came early regarding their ages.

Yvonne was older than Janice by only two years

while the slightly younger Janice

Not in the same or even consecutive paras. I wanted to emphasize the age difference.

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Close enough.

3. Without reading more of the story, I wondered how important it was for the reader to know everything here:


Does the fact his parents lived in France fifteen years add to the story? Do we have to know what his father did or that the move had conditions?

It was needed to understand why. I know it's more interesting to go back and forth in a narrative but I'm trying to stick to a linear structure.

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I found the extra information too much within such a short number of words. Acting as a reader, I felt bombarded with details. I can figure out why that family may have moved. Even if it wasn't the exact reason you gave, it would fit the story good enough so I could continue reading.

subdued_passion said:

Considering you didn't read far I'm guessing this is your polite way of saying it was shite.

If I opened the story looking for an enjoyable read, I would have clicked out in one of the first three paragraphs.

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For what it's worth, I read part of the first page of "More than Friends." I think this is well written considering that English isn't your first language.

However, from a story-telling point of view, I think it needs a fair bit of work. I have to agree with Lynn that the beginning contains so much information that the reader doesn't necessarily need, that it makes it a pretty boring read. I don't mind that kids are involved, and the idea of friends growing into lovers is fine, but I do think you could do more with showing what's going on through dialogue and such.

You say you need this kind of structure, but it doesn't necessarily need to go into a story. You can keep notes like this for yourself as you go along, so that you can dole out the details as needed in the story. Telling a linear story is fine -- plenty of people do it all the time -- but it doesn't mean you need to give the reader every detail in between the scenes of dialogue.

For example, I think you could have skipped several paragraphs and gone right to the scene where the kids meet, and then you could have parceled out the information about their families during the conversation. It doesn't all have to be dialogue, but that scene gives you a good platform to introduce a lot of details directly and indirectly.

You also mentioned things you wanted to emphasize, and that's fine, but be careful. What may be emphasis to you could feel like repetition to the reader. If you state that the girls are two years apart, then I know it, and you should trust me (the reader) to remember it.

FROM CHAPTER ONE, 'It felt as if fate wished that these two girls be brought up sisters.'

The above is a thought NOT a feeling. Feelings include: mad, sad, glad, afraid, tired, hungry, thirsty, nauseous, sleepy, etc.

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

FROM CHAPTER ONE, 'It felt as if fate wished that these two girls be brought up sisters.'

The above is a thought NOT a feeling. Feelings include: mad, sad, glad, afraid, tired, hungry, thirsty, nauseous, sleepy, etc.

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Stylistically speaking, I have to respectfully disagree. You can feel something is true. This goes to emotional bias opposed to all facts that indicate otherwise.

Or is this just the way people talk, which doesn't always align with proper diction?

LWulf said:

Stylistically speaking, I have to respectfully disagree. You can feel something is true. This goes to emotional bias opposed to all facts that indicate otherwise.

Or is this just the way people talk, which doesn't always align with proper diction?

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Feelings aren't thoughts, and disrespectfully...youre fulla shit.If its the way people speak, put quotes around it. I don't know where you idgits get the idea your dum opinions matter when your dum opinions are wrong. FEELINGS ARENT THOUGHTS.

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

Feelings aren't thoughts, and disrespectfully...youre fulla shit.If its the way people speak, put quotes around it. I don't know where you idgits get the idea your dum opinions matter when your dum opinions are wrong. FEELINGS ARENT THOUGHTS.

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You don't generally put quotes on INDIRECT internal dialogue (nor do you put it in italics either). Those are how you handle DIRECT internal dialogue.

You're right about my dum [sic] opinions being wrong. My dum [sic] opinion to date has always been no matter how scathing or abusive your response, YOUR OPINIONS were worthy of respect.

Apparently I wrong about that too.