The bulk of interracial stories..

sr71plt said:

It's always good to start off as a new forum member by irritating other forum members for no particular reason.

On ignore you go.

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I wonder how many potential new forum members have encountered your repellent personality and decided not to stick around? I would guess a fair number. This would probably be a much more active forum without you.

Activities said:

I wonder how many potential new forum members have encountered your repellent personality and decided not to stick around? I would guess a fair number. This would probably be a much more active forum without you.

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12 posts. And whose alt are you?

Real publishing doesn't have a babysitting section.

I think it's worth pointing out that IR includes not just black and white but also either of those and Asian or Polynesian or American Indian.

My IR stories are mostly non racist, but some of them involve stereotypes. I have a lot of stuff that has an IR aspect, but is in other categories.

Boxlicker101 said:

I think it's worth pointing out that IR includes not just black and white but also either of those and Asian or Polynesian or American Indian.

My IR stories are mostly non racist, but some of them involve stereotypes. I have a lot of stuff that has an IR aspect, but is in other categories.

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I am honestly curious as to how IR, especially with stereotypes can be non-racist. I can see it being without, say, racial hostility, but if the fact that a person is a particular color is the foundation of their appeal, that seems racist to me. Race being a social construct and all, and not an actual biological distinction. I mean, everyone has their own aesthetic standards, and there's nothing wrong with preferring one kind of appearance over another, but if what gets you off revolves around the taboo involved, that's kinda racist. I think that was kind of the point of the OP- the stories weren't about race, they just happened to have people of different races in them.

lovecraft68 said:

I'm willing to bet that since this thread was initially ended that IR stories have gone seriously down hill-especially with LW- and are as racist as hell in a variety of ways.

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That's a happy thought.

sr71plt said:

It's always good to start off as a new forum member by irritating other forum members for no particular reason.

On ignore you go.

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So ignoring things you don't like is allowed.

RejectReality said:

It's actually an 11-year-old thread. It was first started in 2006, and then dredged up in 2011.

I've never understood why people get so bent out of shape about thread necromancy. If you're not interested, don't post. If nobody's interested, the thread will sink right back into its grave soon enough. If someone else is interested, fuck off and let them have their turn discussing the topic.

Most of the time, the same people who complain about thread necromancy also complain about starting a new thread on the same old subject that's been discussed a hundred times before.

In other words, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

It's a form of institutionalized bigotry unique to the internet, codified in forum rules across cyberspace, and therefore "normal" behavior.

Back of the bus, you n00bs! You missed the discussion the first time, so you don't get to chime in! The subject is forevermore closed by order of the council of crusty old-timers!

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I dunno about you, but I've had some good times at the backs of buses. And I like your bio- nothing very sexy about STDs.

RejectReality said:

I've never understood why people get so bent out of shape about thread necromancy.

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Depends on the thread. If it's a specific OP with a specific question, and that OP is likely long departed if the thread is a decade old, necromancy mostly just seems like a waste of time. I get pretty annoyed when I see one of those pop up, actually write a response and then realize the timestamp in the OP is 2007 rather than 2017. (This just happened, in fact.)

If it's an evergreen subject like "goll-durnit I'm sick of IR stories built around IR kink instead of just romance with people from different backgrounds" there's no particular reason not to necro but OTOH also no particular reason not to just start another thread. Unless something super-duper interesting happened on the older thread.

DrDelirium said:

I am honestly curious as to how IR, especially with stereotypes can be non-racist. I can see it being without, say, racial hostility, but if the fact that a person is a particular color is the foundation of their appeal, that seems racist to me. Race being a social construct and all, and not an actual biological distinction. I mean, everyone has their own aesthetic standards, and there's nothing wrong with preferring one kind of appearance over another, but if what gets you off revolves around the taboo involved, that's kinda racist. I think that was kind of the point of the OP- the stories weren't about race, they just happened to have people of different races in them.

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If a story involves a white woman who is sexually attracted to black men with big cocks, I would not consider that to be racist, although it is something of a stereotype. If a white man is sexually attracted to blonde women with big tits, that would be a stereotype, but not racist. As far as I can see, it is only racist when the stereotype is a negative one, such as a white woman who likes to be abused by black men.

DrDelirium said:

I am honestly curious as to how IR, especially with stereotypes can be non-racist.

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IR written about the kink--even while exploiting it--and frankly acknowledging and playing with the elephant in the room, which is that the characters pretty certainly have the kink because of racial hangups of varying degrees of severity, can be plausibly non-racist. Or at least less racist. That's what I usually go for when writing IR. IR that just buys hard into bestializing stereotypes, thug-of-the-week tropes, cuck-this-and-cuckqueann-that, not so much. (Although TBH even then it can be a guilty pleasure, long as one realizes that it's a bit effed up.)

Of course the word "racist" has also now become an Orwellian part of the white nationalist toolkit, wherein a certain sort of person uses "racist" to mean "this offends my white supremacism," IOW the precise opposite of its real meaning. So you'll want to watch out for that from people claiming to be offended by the "racism" of IR in threads like this one. (I can't lie -- that it gets up the nose of that certain kind of person doesn't hurt its appeal for me. A touch petty perhaps but OTOH, fuck 'em.)

CyranoJ said:

IR written about the kink--even while exploiting it--and frankly acknowledging and playing with the elephant in the room, which is that the characters pretty certainly have the kink because of racial hangups of varying degrees of severity, can be plausibly non-racist. Or at least less racist. That's what I usually go for when writing IR. IR that just buys hard into bestializing stereotypes, thug-of-the-week tropes, cuck-this-and-cuckqueann-that, not so much. (Although TBH even then it can be a guilty pleasure, long as one realizes that it's a bit effed up.)

Of course the word "racist" has also now become an Orwellian part of the white nationalist toolkit, wherein a certain sort of person uses "racist" to mean "this offends my white supremacism," IOW the precise opposite of its real meaning. So you'll want to watch out for that from people claiming to be offended by the "racism" of IR in threads like this one. (I can't lie -- that it gets up the nose of that certain kind of person doesn't hurt its appeal for me. A touch petty perhaps but OTOH, fuck 'em.)

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So, you seem to be saying that 'meta IR' is not racist. I won't argue the point, and there is certainly something called 'satire,' but I also note that 'satire' is widely used as cover by people whose intentions are quite malign. Don't get the idea that I'm calling for censorship or condemning people's kinks. My beliefs run the other way, and while I'm not a fan of racists, if some skinhead gets turned on by thinking about a bunch of over-hung studs from Compton raping his lily-white girlfriend, I'm okay with that. We don't really choose our kinks, they choose us. I just don't like seeing people make excuses for their racism, even if they believe they embrace some 'positive' version of it, because ultimately the entire 'race' concept is violent and oppressive as long as it persists in people's minds as a legitimate way of categorizing people. So, if you're using racist porn to delegitimize the concept of race, more power to you. It's a tricky call to know when you're really doing that, and when you're functionally reinforcing. I'm not making a blanket judgment about it, just raising the issue. I would say, in fact, that any particular piece of art, in the broadest sense, that addresses any issue on which opinions are divided will have different, and sometimes polar opposite, impacts on different members of the audience. So what the hell, right?

DrDelirium said:

So, you seem to be saying that 'meta IR' is not racist.

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It's possible, like I said, but I wouldn't go quite that far most days. It can be about the same degree to which standard sexist tropes of pr0n are neutralized by being lampshaded; if you're writing a story that both mocks and includes big-willy-ism then the beast is getting fed in some capacity. Question is whether the guilty pleasure's worth it and whether other elements offset it enough to make writing it non-repellent.

Broadly speaking of course, we'd have 90% of social violence taken care of if we could get rid of all forms of race, class and gender. The next best thing is to approach the subjects (and any kinks associated with or derived from them, in Lit terms) with some caution and creativity.

You do a fairly thorough job of covering all the various possible pitfalls in what follows in yr post, and I have to say the lead-in brought a smile to my face:

I won't argue the point [goes on to argue the point]

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You're a man after my own heart. Truly.

You make two mistakes, though. The first:

if some skinhead gets turned on by thinking about a bunch of over-hung studs from Compton raping his lily-white girlfriend, I'm okay with that.

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[Citation needed] Gotta say... I don't entirely believe you. But I'm okay with that.

More to the point, though, it's a mistake--though an easy one--to think of the "skinhead" as the go-to template for racism. The racism that, for example, brought everyone's favourite Mr. Tangerine Man to power was primarily the racism of prosperous suburban/exurban white communities that are still telling everyone it was all about "economic anxiety."

Second (this is more in the interests of prose style than argumentative content, since you've talked about working on a project involving a substantial amount of text), do make trenchant points like this:

Second I just don't like seeing people make excuses for their racism, even if they believe they embrace some 'positive' version of it, because ultimately the entire 'race' concept is violent and oppressive

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Don't undercut them with wafflegab like this:

I would say, in fact, that any particular piece of art [blahdeblah]

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It dilutes your prose.

G'day.

DrDelirium said:

That's a happy thought.

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I'm a happy sort of guy

Unfortunately the truth isn't always happy. The typical-and of course there are always pleasant exceptions-IR story is racist in the sense that the black man is a stero typed thug talking, thug looking asshole who demeans the white women he's fucking and of course their pathetic white boy husbands in the cuck stories.

The white women are always portrayed as trashy..why because they're with a black man.

The fact IR is considered "taboo' by some in this day and age proves the racist aspects of it.

But That's all in my opinion and LW is pretty much the lowest of the low when it comes to anything here. The IR section itself is a bit better, but a lot of the tropes are still there.

sr71plt said:

12 posts. And whose alt are you?

Real publishing doesn't have a babysitting section.

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But yet you hang around here.

Perhaps real publishing doesn't have a bullying snark section either.

CyranoJ said:

It's possible, like I said, but I wouldn't go quite that far most days. It can be about the same degree to which standard sexist tropes of pr0n are neutralized by being lampshaded; if you're writing a story that both mocks and includes big-willy-ism then the beast is getting fed in some capacity. Question is whether the guilty pleasure's worth it and whether other elements offset it enough to make writing it non-repellent.

Broadly speaking of course, we'd have 90% of social violence taken care of if we could get rid of all forms of race, class and gender. The next best thing is to approach the subjects (and any kinks associated with or derived from them, in Lit terms) with some caution and creativity.

You do a fairly thorough job of covering all the various possible pitfalls in what follows in yr post, and I have to say the lead-in brought a smile to my face:



You're a man after my own heart. Truly.

You make two mistakes, though. The first:



[Citation needed] Gotta say... I don't entirely believe you. But I'm okay with that.

More to the point, though, it's a mistake--though an easy one--to think of the "skinhead" as the go-to template for racism. The racism that, for example, powered everyone's favourite Mr. Tangerine Man to power was primarily the racism of prosperous suburban/exurban white communities that are still telling everyone it was all about "economic anxiety."

Second (this is more in the interests of prose style than argumentative content, since you've talked about working on a project involving a substantial amount of text), do make trenchant points like this:



Don't undercut them with wafflegab like this:



It dilutes your prose.

G'day.

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I am not as adept as you (or perhaps just lazier) regarding the arcane quote system here, so I'll just reply to your post in a more general way.
First, when I say "I'm okay with that," I mean that I am not willing to put any time, thought or energy into doing anything about it. What's in people's heads is usually best left there, if at all possible. This leads to my wafflegab, which happens to be an all too obvious reality of creative endeavors: you may have a point, but that doesn't mean anyone will get your point. In painting, my major line of creative endeavor, things gain power from ambiguity, contradiction, and implication. And of course, what is implied only rarely matches what is inferred. Commenters demonstrate everyday on this site that they can't read the author's mind, only his words, and one sometimes wonders if they can even do that. The degree to which the author can control the message is quite limited, really. If one is too afraid of being misunderstood, it becomes impossible to speak at all. That's what my wafflegab is about. Reflection is good, but then, what the hell. Do something. If it's any good, somebody will misunderstand it. And I'm okay with that.

lovecraft68 said:

I'm a happy sort of guy

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Don't think I haven't noticed.

DrDelirium said:

I am not as adept as you (or perhaps just lazier) regarding the arcane quote system here, so I'll just reply to your post in a more general way.

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Nothing much to disagree with in the response, just re: the quote system, there's no big secret. After you've hit the quote button, just break up the text you're responding to with quote tags.

lovecraft68 said:

But yet you hang around here.

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In contrast to you?

CyranoJ said:

Nothing much to disagree with in the response, just re: the quote system, there's no big secret. After you've hit the quote button, just break up the text you're responding to with quote tags.

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Thanks, Cyrano. I hear that WYSIWYG editors will be available any century now, I can hardly wait until Lit gets one.

sr71plt said:

In contrast to you?

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Of course I hang around here. But I'm aware of what here is. If you want people to act like they would in what you refer to as the real publishing world then that's where you should hang out, because it won't happen here.

lovecraft68 said:

Of course I hang around here. But I'm aware of what here is. If you want people to act like they would in what you refer to as the real publishing world then that's where you should hang out, because it won't happen here.

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You're such a hypocritical bottom feeder. As I've told you before, I was here before you got here and I'll be here after you've finally left.

sr71plt said:

You're such a hypocritical bottom feeder. As I've told you before, I was here before you got here and I'll be here after you've finally left.

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Why? You don't seem to like anybody here, and nobody seems to like you. Don't you have anything better to do than hanging around someplace being a pariah? You ruin virtually every thread here. You're probably the most noxious and unpleasant personality I've encountered on the entire internet, since the 1990s. You are like a turd in the punch bowl. It would be a much better, friendlier, and probably livelier forum without you.

Activities said:

Why? You don't seem to like anybody here, and nobody seems to like you. Don't you have anything better to do than hanging around someplace being a pariah? You ruin virtually every thread here. You're probably the most noxious and unpleasant personality I've encountered on the entire internet, since the 1990s. You are like a turd in the punch bowl. It would be a much better, friendlier, and probably livelier forum without you.

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Sure I like a lot of folks here. And I have no interest in your silly badgering. Bye. Ignore is good for you too.

I - Love - Big - Black - Cock!

For me, a physically formidable black male is the ultimate male, and a beautiful white female is the ultimate female. What fascinates me about interracial is the total contrast between male and female, and so for me racial stereotypes, which ARE rooted in reality, play an important role in its eroticism. There is too much reality and symbolism in WFBM stereotypes to be ignored. For me it's just how it is and conveys truth, if not absolute truth. On the other hand, a sexually powerful white woman dominating a submissive or physically average black man just isn't going to turn many people on, including me - it's too narrow of a turn-on. I write exclusively black male / white female stories, heavy on the racial archetypes and genetic underpinnings which excite me deeply. My stories are a melding of my real-life experiences and fantasies. While colorful and a bit 'fetishized', they express my real thoughts and emotions - e.g. desire, fascination, subversion, lust - regarding the natural beauty and eroticism of black male / white female coupling. What I do not like is violence, or the stereotype of the white trash woman and brutish black man. What I do like is the elegant, educated white woman falling under the black man's spell and giving in

-E

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