Looking for feedback on my latest

I'm partway through a series, but I got bitten by a story bug that wouldn't leave me alone until I finished this one-shot:

The Floggings Will Continue.

(Full title would've been "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves" but that was too long.)

It's an experimental piece and a bit different to my usual fare. I wasn't really sure to put it; it's a mindfuck story with aspects of coercion, and it touches on several categories, but in the end I opted for Exhibitionism/Voyeurism since this seemed to fit best. Still not sure if that was the right choice.

Interested in any feedback, but particularly on the psychological angle. The premise is a bit far-fetched, but within that premise, do the characters' reactions make sense?

First, let me say that I loved "The Riddle of the Copper Coin". I loved being immersed in the setting of that story.

This story is not nearly as appealing.

I'm going to make comments as I read, as that's the type of feedback I prefer. I hope it works for you. The downside to that is that I mainly notice negative things as I read, so my comments are going to be mostly negative.

Thoughts:
* You have a prologue. The writing was good and filled the scene, but I'm not sure of the point of it. What it told me was that Sigrid and Tim were friends, but not a couple. Probably never a couple. So I shouldn't get that emotionally involved in the relationship as it's not going to work out
* Then we have the story set up. 29 paragraphs of set up by my count. It felt like a slog getting through it all. If I hadn't had so many positive interactions with you on the forums, I would have hit the back button at some point during this section. It felt very long
* Section three and we get to...the set up of the team building day. Yet more slogging. One minor note - you describe Ashley but don't give her name. So when you said, "Ashley stood at the front", I was wondering who Ashley was
* I wish I knew what country the story is set in. It's not the US. Australia? There's hints, but nothing definite
* On page 2, the small team starts interacting. I feel like the story is finally starting
* I felt Tim caring about his PP's relative to others was out of character. Based on his lack of pursuit of Sigrid, he sounded very passive. Then suddenly he's going all alpha male, badly wanting to be first in an unimportant contest
* As page 2 goes on, it becomes a contest between Kelly and Tim for PP's. That seems...stupid. From earlier, I'd think that Tim would looking to score points with Sigrid now that he's with her and Kelly's not
* Tim finally has a discussion with Sigrid, and he's not interested in her. No description of her reaction to their discussion or how her playing off his comments made him feel. He's interested in winning points and venting frustrations
* And then the team building turns into a mob scene. The group self-immolates. I'm not feeling anything romantic or erotic
* Kelly confronts Tim over Sigrid. Up to this point, I've wondered if Kelly has been hostile to Tim out of jealousy or if Sigrid has asked her to keep the creepy Tim away. We'll soon find out

That's to the end of page 2. I'll read more later. If this type of feedback isn't helpful, let me know and I'll stop.

8letters said:

First, let me say that I loved "The Riddle of the Copper Coin". I loved being immersed in the setting of that story.

This story is not nearly as appealing.

I'm going to make comments as I read, as that's the type of feedback I prefer. I hope it works for you. The downside to that is that I mainly notice negative things as I read, so my comments are going to be mostly negative.

Thoughts:
* You have a prologue. The writing was good and filled the scene, but I'm not sure of the point of it. What it told me was that Sigrid and Tim were friends, but not a couple. Probably never a couple. So I shouldn't get that emotionally involved in the relationship as it's not going to work out
* Then we have the story set up. 29 paragraphs of set up by my count. It felt like a slog getting through it all. If I hadn't had so many positive interactions with you on the forums, I would have hit the back button at some point during this section. It felt very long
* Section three and we get to...the set up of the team building day. Yet more slogging. One minor note - you describe Ashley but don't give her name. So when you said, "Ashley stood at the front", I was wondering who Ashley was
* I wish I knew what country the story is set in. It's not the US. Australia? There's hints, but nothing definite
* On page 2, the small team starts interacting. I feel like the story is finally starting
* I felt Tim caring about his PP's relative to others was out of character. Based on his lack of pursuit of Sigrid, he sounded very passive. Then suddenly he's going all alpha male, badly wanting to be first in an unimportant contest
* As page 2 goes on, it becomes a contest between Kelly and Tim for PP's. That seems...stupid. From earlier, I'd think that Tim would looking to score points with Sigrid now that he's with her and Kelly's not
* Tim finally has a discussion with Sigrid, and he's not interested in her. No description of her reaction to their discussion or how her playing off his comments made him feel. He's interested in winning points and venting frustrations
* And then the team building turns into a mob scene. The group self-immolates. I'm not feeling anything romantic or erotic
* Kelly confronts Tim over Sigrid. Up to this point, I've wondered if Kelly has been hostile to Tim out of jealousy or if Sigrid has asked her to keep the creepy Tim away. We'll soon find out

That's to the end of page 2. I'll read more later. If this type of feedback isn't helpful, let me know and I'll stop.

Click to expand...

Thanks for starting on it! I agree that this one takes a while to develop, no obligation to finish it if it's not doing it for you, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts as it goes on. A few points:

Ashley: whoops. I'm sure there was some sort of "you can call me Ashley" just after she steps off the bus, but apparently I wrote it in invisible font. Or more likely it got misplaced during an edit. Thanks for catching that.

Location: I left this one unspecified, I think because I wanted to play into the disorientation that happens during the team exercise, but I'm not sure whether that was the right call or if it just ends up being distracting.

Hi Bramblethorn,

I'm new here, so take my feedback with a grain of salt.

I've read your Copper Coin story as well and absolutely adored it! That was easily one of my favorites, and I loved the voice and the clever story. I've just started started your Stringed Instrument series, which has also been very compelling.

Your writing is high quality in this story, as it was in the other ones, but I'd agree with 8letters that it starts off as more of a slog with the detailed corporate backstory. It's more entertaining reading than I would have expected as you do a good job making those vignettes funny, although they still cut depressingly close to the bone for those of us with dysfunctional corporate jobs in real life. I can see how an impatient reader might give up after the first page, or even skim to get to the meat of the plot.

I would have rather learned more about Tim, Kelly, and especially Sigrid in that writing space to set up the competitive tension that erupts in the training exercise a bit more. Like 8letters, I didn't expect Tim to care about the participation points as he had Sigrid on his team. Speaking of Sigrid, I was left curious about Sigrid most of all, as Tim & Kelly's personalities came into the picture quite nicely with their actions and words, whereas Sigrid was mostly silent or passive until the denouement.

Just my two cents.

Excellent writing as always and I am looking forward to reading your other pieces!

-Davy

4 chapters submitted! Yippee!

More thoughts:
* I thought it cheesy that Ashley cut things off before we had a resolution of the love triangle
* Again, a little cheesy that Sigrid stays neutral between Tim and Kelly, and instead forces them to publicly work on their issues
* That being said, I loved the scene of Tim and Kelly being together. Very witty dialogue, which had been missing from the story
* Then sex started happening. Yeah, I can see how it would be better than the alternative
* The sex was clever, interesting and well-described. That being said, I couldn't get into it. I kept thinking Where does Sigrid think this is going long-term?
* I only read E&V for story feedback, but I imagine this is not a typical E&V story
* I didn't like the ending. Too pat. I'm leery of the "a woman is always bisexual when its needed" trope. It was also too big of a leap for me - from being friendly co-workers into a Sigrid wanting both equally into, after one bout of crazy sex, a permanent sharing relationship. And the 'Sigrid-splitting-time-between-apartments' thing didn't work for me. I'd prefer a menage a trois, with Sigrid alternating bedrooms. But that's me. Your ending made sense and fit the prologue
* Your writing technique is great. Everything was vividly described. I knew what was going on with Alistair even though it was only occasionally touched upon. Once I got to page 3, there was a lot of humor to the story and I think you were very successful in pulling off the humor

This was subversive and fun. Very different from the usual Literotica fare. I've had some experience with the nonsense of corporate team building outings and enjoyed your story as a subversive deconstruction of the whole thing. But the eroticism worked well, too.

At first I wondered if the pacing was too slow, with too long an introduction, but by the time I could see where things were going I changed my mind. Had you quickened the pace it would be too unbelievable. The story needed time and appropriate pacing to be plausible. As it was, it edged right up to the line of believability, but it worked for me on its terms.

I can see the difficulty of choosing the right category. It's only sort of an E &V story, but it's a loose enough category that it probably works there. I'm not sure where else I'd put it. If something like this really happened I think the characters would show more of a response to the fact that their peers were standing nearby while they were having sex, and their peers probably would be eager to watch them more than the story indicates. Emphasizing those aspects of the story would make it more of an E&V story than you did.

The writing is consistently good. Clean, good grammar, good style. Detailed and descriptive without being excessive or purplish. I don't usually get turned on by stories, even ones I enjoy, but I was turned on by this one.

I'm generally skeptical of framing a story with an introductory flashback, as you do, but since it's a teasing one and you don't figure out what's really going on until the end, when we return to the present day, it works.

The ending was just right. I was worried that the retreat would wrap up too tidily and that it would spoil the underlying tone of what was going on, but that didn't happen. That it all went to pot for the company was the right thing. I liked the twist about the company's identity. The final reveal about Ashley was a great touch.

Good story.

8letters said:

4 chapters submitted! Yippee!

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That's like a year's work for me, congrats

More thoughts:
* I thought it cheesy that Ashley cut things off before we had a resolution of the love triangle

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Ashley is a piece of work. She's getting paid to fuck these people up, but she would happily do it for free. She has absolutely no interest in giving anybody a happy ending, and the only reason our three heroes eventually get one is Tim's negotiation. So her interrupting things before they can be resolved is not coincidence; the last thing she wants is for them to talk things out like adults.

* Again, a little cheesy that Sigrid stays neutral between Tim and Kelly, and instead forces them to publicly work on their issues
* That being said, I loved the scene of Tim and Kelly being together. Very witty dialogue, which had been missing from the story

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Thanks!

I did struggle with Tim's characterisation. I was trying to set him up as just enough of an asshole to get caught up in trying to outscore Kelly, without being so much of an asshole that he didn't deserve a happy ending, and at the same time not making the setup even longer. I found that a hard line to walk and it sounds like I didn't make it entirely convincing for you. But I was pretty happy with that particular scene, the way the dynamic between Tim and Kelly shifted, so I'm glad you liked that bit.

* I only read E&V for story feedback, but I imagine this is not a typical E&V story

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To be honest, I don't spend much time in E&V either - usually only if I'm checking out an author who caught my attention elsewhere - but I'm pretty sure you're right about that.

The commenters have been nice about that, though. I've had a couple of "not sure this is the correct category" but no "fuck off out of here".

* I didn't like the ending. Too pat. I'm leery of the "a woman is always bisexual when its needed" trope. It was also too big of a leap for me - from being friendly co-workers into a Sigrid wanting both equally into, after one bout of crazy sex, a permanent sharing relationship. And the 'Sigrid-splitting-time-between-apartments' thing didn't work for me. I'd prefer a menage a trois, with Sigrid alternating bedrooms. But that's me. Your ending made sense and fit the prologue

Click to expand...

FWIW, the fact that they didn't end up as a ménage à trois was partly about me trying to avoid the "all women are bisexual" trope. Most of my close female friends are bi or at least flexible; if anything, bisexuality is probably a bit rarer in my stories than in my RL circles. So writing Sigrid as bi didn't feel remarkable to me - it's only a "twist" because the story's told from the perspective of a young man who didn't consider that possibility.

But Kelly isn't bi, and I wanted the story to respect that. It's important to me that she and Tim don't end up getting it on, and I didn't want the epilogue to undermine that.

It's also about my experience of RL poly relationships. Even when I was in full-fledged triad relationships, we tended to handle that one pair at a time rather than all three together. You'll notice that in the sex scene, Sigrid tends to switch between Kelly and Tim rather than trying to split her focus between both of them at once (though she's happy to receive attention from both at once) and their subsequent relationship follows that same pattern.

* Your writing technique is great. Everything was vividly described. I knew what was going on with Alistair even though it was only occasionally touched upon. Once I got to page 3, there was a lot of humor to the story and I think you were very successful in pulling off the humor

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Aw, thanks!

Now that you've read the whole thing and can see what I was working towards - do you have thoughts on how I could've handled the setup differently? You've mentioned that the setup felt like a long slog and I felt the same way about it while writing, but I couldn't figure out a better way to get to the effect that I wanted to create. Ashley's using a dollar auction technique to draw people into outrageous behaviour and that depends on slow escalation.

Very enjoyable, but agree that the set up was long

Perhaps the story could have started on the bus to the team building event with some flashbacks and inferences of the set up.

Great work in anycase. The cuddle your enemy on the beanbag scene was quite touching, as well as funny.

Bramblethorn said:

FWIW, the fact that they didn't end up as a ménage à trois was partly about me trying to avoid the "all women are bisexual" trope.
:
But Kelly isn't bi, and I wanted the story to respect that. It's important to me that she and Tim don't end up getting it on, and I didn't want the epilogue to undermine that.

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You had Kelly staying lesbian and Tim respecting that. You could have done that with the three of them living together just as well as with Tim and Kelly living apart. At the end, I felt like Tim and Sigrid were talking about their relationship like it was a child joint custody. And then Sigrid proposes what sounds like a threesome...

Bramblethorn said:

Now that you've read the whole thing and can see what I was working towards - do you have thoughts on how I could've handled the setup differently? You've mentioned that the setup felt like a long slog and I felt the same way about it while writing, but I couldn't figure out a better way to get to the effect that I wanted to create. Ashley's using a dollar auction technique to draw people into outrageous behaviour and that depends on slow escalation.

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One choice would be to start the story with the training group being broken into small groups and backfill from there. I think if we had known that Alistair was a bad manager, we would have accepted him saying the 120% happy horseshit without having been told earlier that he said it.

Another choice would have been to have several small scenes where Tim talks to Sigrid about work, and then Kelly interrupts them. Sigrid is like a picture on a poster until she comes over to the beanbags. Some dialog between her and Tim would have better established why Tim found her so appealing. And then compress a lot of stuff. Did we have to a full description of the video on the bus? Did we have to actually see Cherie confiscating cell phones?

8letters said:

One choice would be to start the story with the training group being broken into small groups and backfill from there. I think if we had known that Alistair was a bad manager, we would have accepted him saying the 120% happy horseshit without having been told earlier that he said it.

Another choice would have been to have several small scenes where Tim talks to Sigrid about work, and then Kelly interrupts them. Sigrid is like a picture on a poster until she comes over to the beanbags. Some dialog between her and Tim would have better established why Tim found her so appealing. And then compress a lot of stuff. Did we have to a full description of the video on the bus? Did we have to actually see Cherie confiscating cell phones?

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Hmm, some of that could've worked, yeah. Chalk it up to experience...

Bramblethorn said:

Hmm, some of that could've worked, yeah. Chalk it up to experience...

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I agree about Sigrid. The story could have used a bit more development of her character early on to explain her attraction to Timothy. Even a very short scene where she showed an attractive quality could helped.

I don't agree about starting with the training, though. This story needed a slower lead in than that. It would have required too much flash backing to make sense of it. And I liked the sense of mystery you provided about where the bus was headed. There was a sense that something was a bit off about the whole thing. You could not have captured that if you started the story after they'd arrived. I think the story required a mostly linear narrative to work.