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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN FOR YOUR SINS?

  • YES

    Votes: 48 16.4%

  • NO

    Votes: 148 50.5%

  • I ALREADY ACCEPTED JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BEFORE

    Votes: 62 21.2%

  • OTHER

    Votes: 35 11.9%
  • Total voters
    293
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xfrodobagginsx said:
I think scripture is clear that Christ is the first fruits of resurrection. You have to do a study on it if you are that interested in the topic.
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I have studied the Bible. I won't study the dweebs who think they have the exclusive and infallible interpretation of it.

The Hebrews referred to "first fruits" in their sacrifices. What makes it mean anything more in the context of Jesus?
 
phrodeau said:
I have studied the Bible. I won't study the dweebs who think they have the exclusive and infallible interpretation of it.

The Hebrews referred to "first fruits" in their sacrifices. What makes it mean anything more in the context of Jesus?
Click to expand...

Because there was symbolism in the Jewish rituals that foreshadows Christ. If you knew anything about the Bible as you claim, you aught to know that.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Because there was symbolism in the Jewish rituals that foreshadows Christ. If you knew anything about the Bible as you claim, you aught to know that.
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The Hebrews (not Jews) made their sacrifices of their first fruits to Yahweh because that's what Yahweh said they should do. They didn't know anything about foreshadowing Christ. Not even the closest thing to a prophecy of Jesus as sacrifice, Isaiah 53, says anything about first fruits. Quite the opposite, in fact.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
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phrodeau said:
The Hebrews (not Jews) made their sacrifices of their first fruits to Yahweh because that's what Yahweh said they should do. They didn't know anything about foreshadowing Christ. Not even the closest thing to a prophecy of Jesus as sacrifice, Isaiah 53, says anything about first fruits. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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The Jews are the Hebrews. They are Israel, all 12 tribes are called Jews. Those from Israel are called Jews, not just those from the tribe of Judah. Of course they didn't know anything about foreshadowing Christ because God hadn't revealed it to them yet. God gave them those laws and rituals and sacrifices and they had symbolism. The lamb had to be perfect and without spot. It represented the purity and perfection of Christ. It represented the sinless nature of Christ. The lamb was slaughtered and it's blood shed, which represented the blood shed by Christ and His death. The blood of the animal covered their sins, but the blood of Christ washes away sins.

Read Hebrews Chapter 9 and 10.
 
Of course they knew. For a self-professed Biblical scholar you know next to nothing. The only disagreement on the subject between Jews and Christians is whether or not the messiah has come as of yet. Christians believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah. Jews are still waiting for him but they very much understood what it was they were supposed to be looking for.

...and no the Jews does not include the 12 tribes of Israel. Generally speaking, the Jews refer to Judah and the tribe of Ben who are the only ones left since the other ten tribes are missing.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
The Jews are the Hebrews. They are Israel, all 12 tribes are called Jews. Those from Israel are called Jews, not just those from the tribe of Judah. Of course they didn't know anything about foreshadowing Christ because God hadn't revealed it to them yet. God gave them those laws and rituals and sacrifices and they had symbolism. The lamb had to be perfect and without spot. It represented the purity and perfection of Christ. It represented the sinless nature of Christ. The lamb was slaughtered and it's blood shed, which represented the blood shed by Christ and His death. The blood of the animal covered their sins, but the blood of Christ washes away sins.

Read Hebrews Chapter 9 and 10.
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Uhm, you are aware that the book of Hebrews is in the New Testament, right?
 
phrodeau said:
The Hebrews (not Jews) made their sacrifices of their first fruits to Yahweh because that's what Yahweh said they should do. They didn't know anything about foreshadowing Christ. Not even the closest thing to a prophecy of Jesus as sacrifice, Isaiah 53, says anything about first fruits. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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I never said that they DID know anything about foreshadowing Christ, but that's what they were actually doing. There are prophecies throughout the OT of Christ and many of His sacrifice.

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/267.messianicpropheciesfulfilled.html
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
I never said that they DID know anything about foreshadowing Christ, but that's what they were actually doing. There are prophecies throughout the OT of Christ and many of His sacrifice.

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/267.messianicpropheciesfulfilled.html
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Only Isaiah 53 implies that Jesus was a sacrifice.

Jesus was not sacrificed according to Hebrew laws.

He was a human, for one.

He was not killed on an altar.

His sacrifice was not overseen by a Levite or high priest.

His flesh was not burned.

And to top it all off, he didn't stay dead afterward.
 
phrodeau said:
Only Isaiah 53 implies that Jesus was a sacrifice.

Jesus was not sacrificed according to Hebrew laws.

He was a human, for one.

He was not killed on an altar.

His sacrifice was not overseen by a Levite or high priest.

His flesh was not burned.

And to top it all off, he didn't stay dead afterward.
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There are so many places where it talks about this. Did you read Hebrews regarding this? It explains it. He was a human, but unlike all other humans, He was perfect and sinless. Only a perfect and sinless human could die for the sins of another human and take their place. That's why only He could do it. He doesn't have to be killed on an alter. After His resurrection, He presented His perfect blood sacrifice on the alter in heaven. That's why He told Mary not to touch Him for He has not ascended to the Father and then later, they could touch Him because He had already ascended to the Father. His flesh didn't need to be burned and He didn't need to stay dead, He only needed to die. Since He is God in the flesh He was able to resurrect.

Going back to your statement that only Isaiah 53 implies that He was a sacrifice.

Read Psalm 22. It was a prayer of Christ while He was on the Cross. It starts off with what He said on the cross just before His death "My God, My God why has thou forsaken me" It speaks of all of His bones being out of joint on the cross. It speaks of them piercing His hands and His feet. It speaks of His thirst on the cross. Remember that He said "I thirst" and they offered Him vinegar? Read that and then I can give you more later.

Did you click my link with all of those prophecies fulfilled by Christ from the OT????
 
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xfrodobagginsx said:
There are so many places where it talks about this. Did you read Hebrews regarding this? It explains it. He was a human, but unlike all other humans, He was perfect and sinless. Only a perfect and sinless human could die for the sins of another human and take their place. That's why only He could do it. He doesn't have to be killed on an alter. After His resurrection, He presented His perfect blood sacrifice on the alter in heaven. That's why He told Mary not to touch Him for He has not ascended to the Father and then later, they could touch Him because He had already ascended to the Father. His flesh didn't need to be burned and He didn't need to stay dead, He only needed to die. Since He is God in the flesh He was able to resurrect.

Going back to your statement that only Isaiah 53 implies that He was a sacrifice.

Read Psalm 22. It was a prayer of Christ while He was on the Cross. It starts off with what He said on the cross just before His death "My God, My God why has thou forsaken me" It speaks of all of His bones being out of joint on the cross. It speaks of them piercing His hands and His feet. It speaks of His thirst on the cross. Remember that He said "I thirst" and they offered Him vinegar? Read that and then I can give you more later.

Did you click my link with all of those prophecies fulfilled by Christ from the OT????
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Yes, I searched for any prophecies concerning Jesus as a sacrifice. Only Isaiah 53 came close. Hebrews can't have any prophetic value, because it was written after the fact. The mental gymnastics you went through here are laughable.
 
phrodeau said:
Yes, I searched for any prophecies concerning Jesus as a sacrifice. Only Isaiah 53 came close. Hebrews can't have any prophetic value, because it was written after the fact. The mental gymnastics you went through here are laughable.
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So, you don't see the obvious correlation in Psalm 22 to Christ on the cross? There are hundreds of prophecies of His first coming fulfilled when He was born. You are discounting all of that? Really?
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
So, you don't see the obvious correlation in Psalm 22 to Christ on the cross? There are hundreds of prophecies of His first coming fulfilled when He was born. You are discounting all of that? Really?
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There’s nothing in Psalm 22 to suggest that the singer is being sacrificed on an altar by a priest. Instead, the singer says he’s being tortured by villains and evil-doers.

And you can be sure that the authors of the New Testament knew every word of these songs, and worked them into their narratives. The idea of Jesus as a sacrifice came from somewhere else.
 
phrodeau said:
There’s nothing in Psalm 22 to suggest that the singer is being sacrificed on an altar by a priest. Instead, the singer says he’s being tortured by villains and evil-doers.

And you can be sure that the authors of the New Testament knew every word of these songs, and worked them into their narratives. The idea of Jesus as a sacrifice came from somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Wow. You can't see that "they pierced my hands and my feet" is a reference to the crucifixion?
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Crusifixion wasn't invented until hundreds of years after that was written. Did you know that? What about where He said "My God My God why hast thou forsaken me"? Didn't Jesus also say that on the cross?
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Of course Jesus knew the words. His great granddaddy wrote them.

When was Jesus encircled by bulls? When were lions roaring in his direction? When was he surrounded by dogs? When were his bones on display? Who threatened Jesus with a sword, or horns of wild oxen?

All these things are spelled out as happening to the singer in Psalm 22. Why aren't they counted as prophecies? And wouldn't those all be false prophecies?
 
The idea of Jesus reciting song lyrics while on the cross seems absurd, like something from a Monty Python film.

I suppose while he was getting the 39 lashes, he'd be singing an Allman Brothers song.
 
phrodeau said:
Of course Jesus knew the words. His great granddaddy wrote them.

When was Jesus encircled by bulls? When were lions roaring in his direction? When was he surrounded by dogs? When were his bones on display? Who threatened Jesus with a sword, or horns of wild oxen?

All these things are spelled out as happening to the singer in Psalm 22. Why aren't they counted as prophecies? And wouldn't those all be false prophecies?
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Did His Great Grand Daddy know that Jesus would be crucified? That they would pierce His hands and His feet? That all of His bones would be out of place (Which was common during crucifixion when they slam the cross down) Jesus may have been referring to demonic activity during that time. His bones were likely on display when they all popped out of joint as the verse also says. The Roman Soldiers likely threatened Him with a sword. I never said that they weren't prophecies. That doesn't mean that I have to understand ALL of it to know that that chapter is a prayer of Christ when He was on the cross.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Did His Great Grand Daddy know that Jesus would be crucified? That they would pierce His hands and His feet? That all of His bones would be out of place (Which was common during crucifixion when they slam the cross down) Jesus may have been referring to demonic activity during that time. His bones were likely on display when they all popped out of joint as the verse also says. The Roman Soldiers likely threatened Him with a sword. I never said that they weren't prophecies. That doesn't mean that I have to understand ALL of it to know that that chapter is a prayer of Christ when He was on the cross.
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You just told us that the Psalms were written before crucifixion was invented.
 
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