Seldom-used words - M to A

AllardChardon said:

Here is a word that relates;

linguistic geography - noun (1926) local or regional variations of a language or dialect studied as a field of study - also called dialect geography

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More on the phrase:

The advent of BBC radio in the 1920s had a profund impact on the linguistic geography of the UK. BBC English aka The King's English aka Received Pronunciation (RP) became the standard version for educated speakers.

Children at school, whatever regional or local dialect they might use at home, were expected to be able to understand and express themselves in RP.

In the school playground, children would use their local dialect, but in formal situations could use RP.

That still happens today with the children of immigrants. They might speak their parents' language at home and in the playground but in the classroom they will be taught and speak a modified 21st Century version of RP. The 1920s and prewar BBC English now seems impossibly ridiculous today.

oggbashan said:

More on the phrase:

The advent of BBC radio in the 1920s had a profund impact on the linguistic geography of the UK. BBC English aka The King's English aka Received Pronunciation (RP) became the standard version for educated speakers.

The 1920s and prewar BBC English now seems impossibly ridiculous today.

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I rather think that WW2 may have had a big impact.
I used to be able to make a fair guess at the geographical location of a bloke by the way he spoke. Few others in my bunch of blokes in the RAF even thought about it.
So he asked me to guess his original location.

"Halfway between xx and yy" I said.
He was impressed; Cradely Heath is not normally noted for having a notable accent.

It's all changed now, of course. A working knowledge of the near East is required.

The Thanksgiving holiday is the latest reason for my absence. My family came home for it and that makes it a very busy time for me. Glad to be back.

Very interesting, Og and Handley. The surveyors' report must be an interesting read.

Here is another word in the same vein;

linguistic atlas - noun (1917) a publication containing a set of maps on which speech variations are recorded - also called dialect atlas

AllardChardon said:

...

Here is another word in the same vein;

linguistic atlas - noun (1917) a publication containing a set of maps on which speech variations are recorded - also called dialect atlas

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Any modern version might be almost impossible to portray on a map.

Why?

Up to the middle of the 19th Century the majority of people never left their immediate locality except perhaps in England to move to the nearest factory town where their dialect would be common.

Of course there were exceptions such as the Irish diaspora, Cornish miners exporting their skills around the world, and displacements caused by wars.

Another factor was government interference. For example after the French Revolution their government established schools throughout the country but insisted that all instruction should be in FRENCH and not the local language/dialect. Breton, Provencal, Catalan etc were discouraged.

BUT - most stayed put and rarely heard another dialect.

In the mid 19th Century railways started to develop and cheap fast(ish) travel became available. People began to move to areas where there was better paid work.

My wife's family moved from the West Midlands to London before railways - they travelled by canal which was much faster than on foot.

Some of my family came to London in the mid 19th Century but they remained in contact with other branches of the family left in rural Suffolk. That would have been impossible before railways and the penny post.

But now? A typical family based in East London that would have been Cockney 100 years ago might have relations in Australia, South Africa, Canada etc. The dialect their grandparents spoke is a historic curiosity, and the wider family's dialects are almost extinct.

A mid 19th Century linguistic atlas of the East End of London would have shown the majority as Cockney, with small pockets of French (Hugenots), Dutch (Flemish Weavers), Cantonese (Chinese sailors and dockworkers), Yiddish etc.

A 21st Century linguistic atlas of the same area would be totally confused because there are so many layers of immigration and movement. Recently an East End school recorded 70 first languages in a school of 400 pupils.

Og, 70 first languages out of 400 students. That is simply amazing. Where I live there are only two, the second being very low in numbers, especially in winter after the migrant workers have headed south to warmer climates. English and Mexican are the two. I can't say Spanish, because Mexicans don't speak the kind of Spanish spoken in Spain, that's for sure. I am probably being incredibly incorrect, politically, but I really don't know what to call it. Anyone, who would like to take the time to enlighten me, is graciously invited to do so.

This one caught my eye;

lingua franca - noun (1619) 1. often cap: a common language consisting of Italian mixed with French, Spanish, Greek, and Arabic that was formerly spoken in Mediterranean ports 2. any of various languages used as common or commercial tongues among peoples of diverse speech 3. something resembling a common language <movies are the lingua franca of the twentieth century - Gore Vidal>

AllardChardon said:

Og, 70 first languages out of 400 students. That is simply amazing. Where I live there are only two, the second being very low in numbers, especially in winter after the migrant workers have headed south to warmer climates. English and Mexican are the two. I can't say Spanish, because Mexicans don't speak the kind of Spanish spoken in Spain, that's for sure. I am probably being incredibly incorrect, politically, but I really don't know what to call it. Anyone, who would like to take the time to enlighten me, is graciously invited to do so.

This one caught my eye;

lingua franca - noun (1619) 1. often cap: a common language consisting of Italian mixed with French, Spanish, Greek, and Arabic that was formerly spoken in Mediterranean ports 2. any of various languages used as common or commercial tongues among peoples of diverse speech 3. something resembling a common language <movies are the lingua franca of the twentieth century - Gore Vidal>

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The lingua franca in some of our schools is not even based on English.
There are parts of some cities where the common street language is almost anything but English.

AllardChardon said:

This one caught my eye;

lingua franca - noun (1619) 1. often cap: a common language consisting of Italian mixed with French, Spanish, Greek, and Arabic that was formerly spoken in Mediterranean ports 2. any of various languages used as common or commercial tongues among peoples of diverse speech 3. something resembling a common language <movies are the lingua franca of the twentieth century - Gore Vidal>

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Handley_Page said:

The lingua franca in some of our schools is not even based on English.
There are parts of some cities where the common street language is almost anything but English.

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When I lived in Gibraltar in the early 1950s, lingua franca was still around. It had regional differences e.g. that used on Gibraltar had more Spanish and Arabic than French and Greek; that used in Marseille had less Spanish, more Italian but was mainly French and Arabic.

Now? The lingua franca of the world is English. For a native language Chinese-speakers might outnumber English speakers, but the second language of choice almost everywhere is American English.

The artificially contrived lingua franca of Esperanto is almost defunct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

AllardChardon said:

English and Mexican are the two. I can't say Spanish, because Mexicans don't speak the kind of Spanish spoken in Spain, that's for sure. I am probably being incredibly incorrect, politically, but I really don't know what to call it. Anyone, who would like to take the time to enlighten me, is graciously invited to do so.

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The official term in Spanish is Español mexicano. But it is normally known as Tex-Mex (Spanish). It is spoken in Northern Mexico and by Mexicans in the US.

In other parts of Mexico there are different variations of Spanish. The most usual known abroad is Central Mexican based on that spoken in Mexico City because that's where the Mexican media are based.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Spanish

Og, thank you for the links on the language Esperanto and Mexican Spanish. It was called Mexican Spanish when I was in school, but I figured it had changed into something more modern. Tex-Mex doesn't really cut it.

Might as well add this one to the mix;

lingo - noun (1660) strange or incomprehensible language or speech: as; a. a foreign language b. the special vocabulary of a particular field of interest c. language characteristic of an individual

Greetings, posters.

It is the archaic definition that interested my historical research side;

lingerie - noun (1835) 1. archaic: linen articles or garments 2. women's intimate apparel

AllardChardon said:

Og, thank you for the links on the language Esperanto and Mexican Spanish. It was called Mexican Spanish when I was in school, but I figured it had changed into something more modern. Tex-Mex doesn't really cut it.

Might as well add this one to the mix;

lingo - noun (1660) strange or incomprehensible language or speech: as; a. a foreign language b. the special vocabulary of a particular field of interest c. language characteristic of an individual

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Recent words discussed on this thread, linguistic (in conjunction with some other words), lingua (franca), and lingo, all share the common root lingua, which is Latin for tongue. The first two appear to be almost direct descendants—though I think there's some Italian influence in the second—while the third comes indirectly from the Portuguese word lingoa for language.

All of them exhibit our strong tendency to speak of language metaphorically—in terms of the body-part we use to form speech. Indeed, the word language itself comes from that same Latin root via the French word langue—which means, depending on context, either the body-part tongue or language itself. This is a particularly interesting instance of self-reference—we have language referring to itself here. As a mathematician, I enjoy finding self-reference, because it's known to cause a great deal of trouble in both mathematics and logic: Who shaves the barber who shaves all the men, and only those men, in town who don't shave themselves?

The Latin word itself comes from an older form dingua which is even closer to the ancient Indo-European word dnghu from which it comes. (I can't type that word here as it appears in my American Heritage Dictionary because the entry in the dictionary's appendix—and elsewhere—includes a diacritical dot below and just to the right of the center of the 'n'. I can't find any explanation for what that dot means... Og, have you any idea?)

I should mention that our English word tongue shares that same Indo-European root, having come to us through the Germanic branch of our linguistic tree.

Very interesting, Carlus. I do love it when you give us the complete origin of a word because etymology is another one of my favorite subjects.

I wonder how often this word is used here;

lingam or linga - noun (1719) a stylized phallic symbol that is worshipped in Hinduism as a sign of generative power and that represents the god Shiva - compare YONI

AllardChardon said:

I wonder how often this word is used here;

lingam or linga - noun (1719) a stylized phallic symbol that is worshipped in Hinduism as a sign of generative power and that represents the god Shiva - compare YONI

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How often Lit. authors use the word probably depends—at least in part—on how many of them have read the Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana, where lingam and its counterpart, yoni, are used extensively. (It's on-line in PDF if you want it.)

But, come to think of it, those two words might add an element of class to a Lit. story. I typically write in the first person, so I'll have to give some thought to the kind of character who might use those words…

CarlusMagnus said:

How often Lit. authors use the word probably depends—at least in part—on how many of them have read the Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana, where lingam and its counterpart, yoni, are used extensively. (It's on-line in PDF if you want it.)

But, come to think of it, those two words might add an element of class to a Lit. story. I typically write in the first person, so I'll have to give some thought to the kind of character who might use those words…

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I use both lingam and yoni in my stories about Harold in (mythical) 19th Century India. The first story:

https://www.literotica.com/s/harold-plays-the-hero

Og, but you are the exception to the rule, regarding language usage, here on LIT, don't you think? I have certainly found your depth of knowledge about all kinds of languages, including slang, most fascinating over the years. Always will I be grateful for your input to this thread.

Here is an older word, the second in a group of four entries (the others being more common);

ling(2) - noun (13c) a heath plant: esp; a common Old World heather

Carlus, for some reason, I missed your latest post. Yes, lingam and yoni would class up a story. They sound so much better than penis and vagina.

AllardChardon said:

Og, but you are the exception to the rule, regarding language usage, here on LIT, don't you think? I have certainly found your depth of knowledge about all kinds of languages, including slang, most fascinating over the years. Always will I be grateful for your input to this thread.

Here is an older word, the second in a group of four entries (the others being more common);

ling(2) - noun (13c) a heath plant: esp; a common Old World heather

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Also the name of the Norwegian resistance movement in WW2, I understand.

Handley, I have never heard of that, but then, there is a great deal about WWII that I do not know. Growing up with all the American WWII GI TV shows, like "Rat Patrol", which my older brother loved, made me avoid the subject most of my life. Davy Crockett, on the other hand, made we want to learn more. Only recently have I taken an interest in WWII. I really enjoyed the PBS show "Home Fires."

Here is an odd one tucked away amongst the line words;

linebreeding - noun (ca. 1879) the interbreeding of certain individuals within a particular line of descent usually to perpetuate desirable characteristics

It has all the makings of a great story in there.

AllardChardon said:

Handley, I have never heard of that, but then, there is a great deal about WWII that I do not know. Growing up with all the American WWII GI TV shows, like "Rat Patrol", which my older brother loved, made me avoid the subject most of my life. Davy Crockett, on the other hand, made we want to learn more. Only recently have I taken an interest in WWII. I really enjoyed the PBS show "Home Fires."

Here is an odd one tucked away amongst the line words;

linebreeding - noun (ca. 1879) the interbreeding of certain individuals within a particular line of descent usually to perpetuate desirable characteristics

It has all the makings of a great story in there.

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Didn't Hitler have a similar breeding programme ?
I recall being told that when I was in Germany in the mid 60s, a few towns were packed with absolutely gorgeous females who had resulted in the breeding programme.

AllardChardon said:

Only recently have I taken an interest in WWII."

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World at War is an excellent TV documentary, made in the early seventies, documenting the entire war, and narrated by Sir Lawrence Olivier. It includes many interviews with people who were there---some of them major participants, others who would, without this documentary, have been long forgotten. It's available in on DVD; there are 26 fifty-minute segments, so you won't succeed in watching it all in a single afternoon.

Many books, fiction and non-fiction, have been written about WWII. Here is my take on some of the best non-fiction:

The Two-Ocean War, by Samuel E. Morison;
Probably the best single-volume history of the US war at sea. Morison is one of the greatest of the naval historians. If you're really a glutton for punishment, he published a 15-volume set, History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, which I haven't yet succeeded in finishing---though I've owned it for about ten years! (Og: Is there anything like Morison's work that covers the Royal Navy during WWII? I'd like to get your side of the story, too!)

The Liberation Trilogy by Rick Atkinson;
An Army at Dawn, The war in Africa, begining with the US landing
The Day of Battle, The campaign in Italy
The Guns at Last Light, Western Europe, from Normandy on through the end

Shattered Sword, by Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully;
Likely the definitive treatment of the Battle of Midway, which was a major turning point in the Allies' victory in the Pacific.

The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, by James D. Hornfischer;
A full account of the Battle off Samar, which was a critical part of the Battle for Leyte Gulf, where the Japanese navy received its death blow. It's a remarkable tale of determination and courage in which a US force consisting of jeep carriers and destroyer escorts attacked—against all hope and sanity—an overwhelming Japanese force of cruisers and battleships (including the super battleship Yamato) and, incredibly, made that far superior force retreat. Among the incidents recounted in this book is one (that I found extraordinarily moving) in which the commander of a Japanese cruiser ordered his crew to line the side of their ship at attention to honor the courage of his foes as his ship passed US sailors then adrift after their own ship had been sunk.

Handley_Page said:

Didn't Hitler have a similar breeding programme ?
I recall being told that when I was in Germany in the mid 60s, a few towns were packed with absolutely gorgeous females who had resulted in the breeding programme.

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The Nazi's did indeed have an 'Aryan' breeding programme, using the 'purest', most provably Aryan SS soldiers to breed with notionally pure-bred Aryan girls; whether or not they were willing is another question; unquestionably many were dedicated to the Nazi ideals of racial purity, but there are many ugly stories of girls rounded-up, certified as pure Aryan, and raped repeatedly in special breeding camps by SS soldiers, all of whom had to prove their pure Aryan descent.

The Nazi's were particularly interested in Dutch, Danish and Norwegian women (all pure 'Nordic' types according to their twisted ideas regarding racial hygiene, Germanic superiority and eugenics), as pure representatives of their notion of what it meant to be Aryan; Annifrid Lyngstad, the dark-haired singer with Abba was one of the children who resulted from the 'Lebensborn' Aryan breeding programme of the Nazi's; her mother had to take her to Sweden to protect her from the animosity of her fellow Norwegians after the war, as Norwegian Lebensborn children post-war were regarded as Nazi collaborators and were denied schooling or any civil rights.

The Lebensborn programme also included the removal of children from conquered countries with allegedly 'Germanic' populations who were deemed to be 'racially pure' Germans, who were handed to proven Nazi Aryan families to be raised as their own. 'Lebensborn' means 'Fountain of Life'.

I always found it a little ironic that the men who were all obsessed with the Nordic genotype as representative of what a true 'Aryan' would be (tall, fair-haired, athletic, blue, grey or green-eyed supermen) were all short, dark-haired, dark-eyed little men (Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Heydrich, Speer, Von Schirach, Rohm etc).

AllardChardon said:

...

Here is an odd one tucked away amongst the line words;

linebreeding - noun (ca. 1879) the interbreeding of certain individuals within a particular line of descent usually to perpetuate desirable characteristics

It has all the makings of a great story in there.

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Linebreeding was practised with animals and plants for thousands of years, selecting particular traits to improve the successors. Archaeologists working in Egypt have found 2000 year old wheat seeds in tombs and had planted some. The resulting crop was very different to any variety of modern wheat with a much lower yield.

An aside: Back in the 1970s I used to frequent an open air bookstall in London. One day I found a heap of mid 19th Century cattle stock books showing which animals had been bred, with the name, stock number and ancestry of each cow and bull that had produced that specific calf. The books cover fifty years of breeding a particular variety of cattle (rare in the 20th Century).

I bought the lot and donated them to the Agricultural Society then responsible for that rare breed. They were delighted. I had solved their 'missing link'. Those books filled the gap in the breeding programme enabling them to trace modern individuals of that breed back to the early 18th Century.

Cost to me? £5. Value to them? Priceless.

Back to linebreeding.

What 19th Century human biologists didn't fully appreciate was that simple improvements in diet and living conditions could achieve far more dramatic changes than specialist breeding. Good food, clean water, sewage and simple health care resulted in bigger, stronger and more robust people than selection of parents.

As the 20th Century began, food adulteration was reduced. Sewage systems and a reliable clean water supply helped with health. Basic medical care reduced rates of infant mortality. The results were starkly evident in British troops conscripted for WW1 and WW2. In WW1 the rejection rate for being undersized or unhealthy was unacceptably high, even though the authorities became desperate to enlist almost anybody. In WW2 the rejection rate was much lower. The recruits were taller, heavier and healthier than the previous generation.

Great question, Handley, and wonderful responses from Og and newcomer, Lori the Hoosier. Welcome, Lori, glad to have you aboard.

Thank you, Carlus, for the great list of reading material for WWII.

To add to the discussion, Southern planters practiced breeding within their slaves. Here is an excerpt from Wiki on Slave Breeding in the United States;

In the antebellum years, numerous escaped slaves wrote about their experiences in books called slave narratives. Many recounted that at least a portion of slave owners continuously interfered in the sexual lives of their slaves (usually the women). The slave narratives also testified that slave women were subjected to arranged marriages, forced matings, sexual violation by masters, their sons or overseers, and other forms of abuse.

The historian E. Franklin Frazier, in his book The Negro Family, stated that "there were masters who, without any regard for the preferences of their slaves, mated their human chattel as they did their stock." Ex-slave Maggie Stenhouse remarked, "Durin' slavery there were stockmen. They was weighed and tested. A man would rent the stockman and put him in a room with some young women he wanted to raise children from."

Linear A - noun (1948) a linear form of writing used in Crete from the 18th to the 15th centuries B.C.

Linear B - noun ((1950) a linear form of writing employing syllabic characters and used at Knossos on Crete and on the Greek mainland from the 15th to the 12th centuries B.C. for documents in Mycenaean Greek

AllardChardon said:

Linear B - noun ((1950) a linear form of writing employing syllabic characters and used at Knossos on Crete and on the Greek mainland from the 15th to the 12th centuries B.C. for documents in Mycenaean Greek

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First translated by Ventris & Chadwick in 1953. It is reckoned in some places that this achievement was as worthy as Champolion and the Rosetta Stone.

Thank you, Handley, for the additional information on Linear B.

Here is a dance I forgot all about;

Lindy - noun [prob. fr. Lindy, nickname of Charles A. Lindberg] (1931) a jitterbug dance originating in Harlem and later developing many local variants - called also Lindy Hop