Insider or Outsider?

In recent weeks I've read - and have been told - more than once that we who are regulars in this particular forum tend to treat newcomers poorly. That we tend to make them feel unwelcome. I have, more than once, tried to defend our group against this claim. That it has come up more than a few times from more than a few sources has made me pause to wonder if I'm just blind to actions that others can see clearly.

I have questions then, that I hope we can all try to answer as plainly as possible. Even if - and preferably if - doing so means that we force ourselves to see our own actions in a stark light. Honestly, I don't remember what my experience was as a newbie here 8 years ago, so I hope that others who are much newer can help us put some light on the place.

What does it take to become an insider in the BDSM forum?

It's been said that we tend to shun newcomers - or at least some of them. What does this look like? What actions constitute shunning in this case?

What are the rules of behavior around here? What rules do we accept for ourselves and inflict on others? Maybe we shun those who don't follow our rules from the get-go, even though it's unreasonable to expect them to know the rules before the door has barely closed behind them. Is that it?

I have some thoughts on this, but I'd like to hear from a few others before I share them.

I think of myself as a somewhat-more-than-casual visitor here, neither fully in or nor out. That said, I think that newcomers who seem to be genuine 'seekers' are mostly welcomed pretty nicely. Trolls and wankers get found out and burned pretty quickly, which I honestly don't see as unreasonable.

Rules? I don't think the 'regulars' have all that many. Don't be a wanker, obviously. Don't assume that your way of doing things is or should be the way everyone else does it. Beyond that, I can't think of anything hard & fast around here.

I'm curious where else this reputation is being discussed. And I can think of groups on other forums that that are much more harsh to newcomers.

My only criticism is that the group tends to brush off 'the same old questions' when new folks ask them. I've seen the same thing happen on other, completely unrelated groups. After a while group veterans do get a degree of burnout. I've seen 'newbie FAQ' sections or stickies posted, and those who feel like answering for a while can do so without it becoming a PITA for other regulars.

It has the feel of a clique. That's not an indictment...it just happens.

In my opinion the GB is harder to interact with.

Being new not so long ago, I felt that everyone was pretty nice. It was pointed out to me that my first post was worded in a way that made everyone far more willing to participate.

I think that some newcomers have been treated badly, but usually they're thought to be trolls or in some cases their post had nothing to do with BDSM Talk and would have been better received in the Fetishes forum.

My view is that if someone comes in and simply wants to feed their fetish or gain some wank fodder, I'm not keen on participating. I certainly have a snarky streak that comes out. I do try to be welcoming and helpful. Maybe we don't all realize how snarky or mean it comes off sometimes. I've posted and later asked myself if it came off too harsh.

I do expect others to at least read some of the rules before posting. Mostly because I read and tried to follow the rules when I first started. Perhaps I should try to be more forgiving? I'll think about this some more.

I have no idea what's up here, but folk can get annoyed with the typical newbie questions and get snarky.

A newbie posting in a cluncky manner can detract.

Number of posts help to be an insider.

But the bottom line is why make anyone feel unwelcome anywhere on this site (the GB notwithstanding). This is a porn board and if someone finds their way to the BDSM Forum and tiptoes in and asks a stupid question...embrace it! Help them!

Oh so glad you asked...

After a year and a few thousand posts, 80% of those or more probably In the BDSM threads, I still feel like a newcomer. Some people are very welcoming, and interact a lot. Other people come across as really snooty, others I won't even bother to label...

I saw other people who are obviously into BDSM sticking to the PG and other areas, and I would think.. why aren't they over here? It becomes pretty obvious after a while. The real difference to me is that in other sections, if somebody gets personal, they are quickly ostracized or "reprimanded" by others. Here, it is ignored, there is tacit compliance, or worse. It's tolerated, kowtowed to, even.

Perhaps it's the nature of D/s personalities. I don't know. Personally, I don't let it get to me. Others don't have hard outer shells, and they don't stick around to wade through all the bullshit.

That will be $1 please.
(The Dr. is in.)
Ok, was in...

I think we are a nice bunch in general, but maybe not the most welcoming. We (or at least I) have a tendency to write people off quite easily as HNGs looking for wank fodder if their first or only posts here are maybe something a bit more graphic. Our corner of Lit is actually very un-porny and un-flirty for being a porn board and I think that can lead to some of the "schizm" between the old and the new faces. For a group of people that always rises to occasion when someone says this or that isn't real BDSM/sub/dom/whatever, we sure seem to have clear ideals of what a real Lit BDSM Boarder looks like.

And actually there's nothing special about that, really. On each board, no matter what the subject is, a certain atmosphere develops. I've noticed that I expect even the newbies to have an idea of what the atmosphere here is like. I guess I operate from the starting point that everybody has read the forum for a while, at least half an hour or so, before posting and have at least a vague idea of where they're posting. It's probably not true though, so I might have to adjust my expectations a bit.

What does it take to become an insider? Post. Post. Post. Join the discussions and don't let things get too close to your heart. Be polite but don't be afraid to have your own opinions. Don't be afraid to laugh at yourself a little, too. Pick your battles, not everyone is ever going agree on all things.

I think your experience as a newbie also depends on your own expectations. I come from a place where people are kept at a (polite?) distance until they sort of prove themselves. Once they do it's all puppies and rainbows, but before that it can seem sort of cold. From that background starting to post on any internet forum for me is just business as usual. I think the American culture is different in that respect and maybe that's why people also expect this board to be more welcoming?

You know how people are sometimes described as either coconut person or peach person. Coconut people have a hard shell, but once you get past that it's smooth sailing. Peach people have a soft shell but it's hard to get to the core of them and really get to know them. Our board is definitely more coconut than peach, but the gooey center at least to me has been worth all the chipping.

seela said:

I think we are a nice bunch in general, but maybe not the most welcoming. We (or at least I) have a tendency to write people off quite easily as HNGs looking for wank fodder if their first or only posts here are maybe something a bit more graphic. Our corner of Lit is actually very un-porny and un-flirty for being a porn board and I think that can lead to some of the "schizm" between the old and the new faces. For a group of people that always rises to occasion when someone says this or that isn't real BDSM/sub/dom/whatever, we sure seem to have clear ideals of what a real Lit BDSM Boarder looks like.

And actually there's nothing special about that, really. On each board, no matter what the subject is, a certain atmosphere develops. I've noticed that I expect even the newbies to have an idea of what the atmosphere here is like. I guess I operate from the starting point that everybody has read the forum for a while, at least half an hour or so, before posting and have at least a vague idea of where they're posting. It's probably not true though, so I might have to adjust my expectations a bit.

What does it take to become an insider? Post. Post. Post. Join the discussions and don't let things get too close to your heart. Be polite but don't be afraid to have your own opinions. Don't be afraid to laugh at yourself a little, too. Pick your battles, not everyone is ever going agree on all things.

I think your experience as a newbie also depends on your own expectations. I come from a place where people are kept at a (polite?) distance until they sort of prove themselves. Once they do it's all puppies and rainbows, but before that it can seem sort of cold. From that background starting to post on any internet forum for me is just business as usual. I think the American culture is different in that respect and maybe that's why people also expect this board to be more welcoming?

You know how people are sometimes described as either coconut person or peach person. Coconut people have a hard shell, but once you get past that it's smooth sailing. Peach people have a soft shell but it's hard to get to the core of them and really get to know them. Our board is definitely more coconut than peach, but the gooey center at least to me has been worth all the chipping.

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I agree with all this.

Basically, what it comes down to (in my opinion) is:

1.) If you're trying to hook up, you'll either be ignored at best or sniped at at worst, depending on what kind of mood people happen to be in on that particular day. Personals belong in the Personals section, and roleplaying (or attempts to get others to roleplay) belong in the Roleplay section.

2.) If you're looking for wank fodder, you'll get the same reception as the people I mentioned in #1. Go to the Fetish or Roleplay (depending on what exactly it is you're looking for) boards for that.

3.) If you take yourself too seriously (e.g., any of the "true" stuff, anything that looks as though you're trying to brag, etc.), you will be called out on it. The people who come here have lots of different kinds of relationships, lots of different ways of doing things, and varying levels of commitment to BDSM stuff. We don't take kindly to people crashing in and telling us we're doing it wrong. Would you want someone to show up at your house randomly and tell you that you're doing it wrong? Same principle.

4.) If you lack common sense, expect to be laughed at.

5.) If what you want is to say you think x is hot and then have other people come in behind you and say the same thing, you'll have much better luck in the Fetish forum. This goes for most pic threads, too, although there are some exceptions.

6.) If you want to ask for recommendations for punishments, make a log of the things you or your sub have to do every day, or otherwise play exhibitionist, please get a blog. Discussion boards are for discussions. Likewise, if you want to post stories, post them to the story section of the site.

7.) Most of the people here are either currently doing BDSM stuff in their real lives or have done it in the past. We honestly don't care what you and your online master/mistress/sub/slave/whatever do. That world means nothing to the majority of us, and we don't really relate to it that well. Again, you may have better luck in the Fetish or Roleplay forums.

8.) If you're new at this and want to ask for advice, do a search for your question before you ask it. You can also consult the Library sticky, or, if you can't be bothered to do anything else, for the love of God, at least skim the threads on the front page to make sure someone didn't ask the exact same question two days ago.

9.) Also, if you're new at this, it's understandable that you want to talk about it. But you must also understand that most of us got past our "overenthusiastic newbie" stages a long time ago. We're not going to share your enthusiasm and, in fact, may find it irritating if it continues on too long. Basically, don't make everything about you and your new fetishes/relationships/whatever, and you'll probably be ok. Also, the less "overenthusiastic newbie" stuff you post, the less you'll have to be ashamed of later. (And, yes, if you hang around for long, you will be ashamed of the dumb stuff you posted when you were new.)

10.) If you just want to troll us, at least be good at it. We tend to ignore boring trolls, and it's been a while since we really had someone worth batting around like a cat toy.

11.) The more you whine about how badly mistreated you are, the less seriously we're going to take you.

12.) The best thing you can do--here or anywhere, be it online or in real life--is to explore the place, get a feel for the kinds of things we appreciate and the kinds of things we don't, and learn a little about us before you just jump in and start running your mouth. It takes a special brand of narcissism to just show up somewhere and expect to take center stage, and we're not fans of it, to say the least. Put some thought into your posts, too. You don't have to write something absolutely brilliant, but using spell-check before posting would be fantastic.

13.) Bunny shall be addressed as "Your Majesty," "The Spider-Bunny," or "Bunny, the Ever-Glorious."

I've always felt like an exception to the "rules"

My first post here was one of those "punishment threads" where I publicly stated my crime and blah blah blah. To my experience, I have been the only one that was well received, and Jounar and I were both treated very well.

I also don't spell very well, but when some one tried to belittle me because of that, the "regulars" let out a whole can of whoop ass and formally declared my exemption status to the Grammar Nazi.

*shrug*

In response to Mr Yankee from Another Place - and with genuine thanks for starting this thread...

midwestyankee said:

Do you think it would help if I inhale helium before I post? That might remove some of the weight from my voice, don't you think?

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Don't lose any gravitas on my account! And I am sure Rainshine would say the same...

I was just trying to look for the thread that made me think 'I don't want to do this again', but it was probably almost a year ago and i have not been successful. It was a fairly general discussion about D/s, and All_4_Love and I, who I think have similar attitudes and approaches to D/s, were both posting and both pretty new. I honestly think we both bent over backwards to say things like 'in my opinion' and 'in my experience' and I even said that it was interesting and educational to read so many different ideas, etc. But we were both told that our approach to D/s was idealistic and that we were denigrating others from a 'twue Dom' perspective, etc, which I know neither of us was trying to do. As I say, we were trying really hard NOT to do that!

I suppose what I resented was the implication that because I was new here, I was new to D/s. I certainly wouldn't try to lord it over others based on experience or knowledge - we all started somewhere, and goodness knows I have masses to learn about all sorts of things. But I started my involvement with D/s in 2005, so it will be ten years soon, and was lucky enough to be deeply involved in the UK scene as well as having more than one long term and serious D/s relationship myself, which taught me so much. It IS possible to live the kind of lifestyle I have described, and to have the mental attitudes to Dominance and submission I've talked about occasionally.

Is it for everyone? Of course not - what is? Does it mean that anyone not subscribing to these ideas is not a 'true Dom' or a 'true sub'? Obviously not at all - room for a rainbow of approaches, as there always has been. But it would be nice if people did not go to the other extreme and, out of annoyance with being denigrated by some who hold quite traditional or rigid views on D/s, instantly link anyone with similar views to such denigration.

It is lovely that there are true friends here who leap to each other's aid, as there are on other boards - yes, even the dreaded GB! But sometimes, to the uninitiated, defensiveness when no attack was intended can look very much like aggression. And when we are finding our way around the lovely corridors of Lit, such a feeling is likely to send us back into other corners, more easy to penetrate. My loss, of course, not yours. But Mr Yankee did ask, so there it is. No criticism of any individual intended. And I am sure you are all gorgeous and utterly charming to a woman, man and every other point on the spectrum.

Thank you to everyone who has posted so far. I promised that I would add my own thoughts after a bit, so here I am.

This thread is something of a mea culpa, as I know that I have been part of the problem. I know that I've treated a few newcomers pretty badly in the past and I intend to change that.

I'm fascinated by social behavior and an online forum is every bit as real a sociological world as any other venue. We have our rules, which vary a bit from place to place, and what I wanted to provoke by starting this thread was a broader recognition of what those rules are and, if possible, to revoke any rules that get in the way of civil discussion here.

Here's what I think matters around here:

• Authenticity matters. Be yourself and don't pose as someone you aren't.
• Humor matters. This thing that we do can be dangerous, but we would be very unsuccessful as people if we couldn't also laugh at ourselves. So laugh it up whenever you can.
• Safety matters. Please listen to the voices of experience when they talk about how to do what we do safely.
• Coherence matters. If we can't understand your question, it's really hard to give you a useful answer.
• Community matters. We, like all groups who band together, feel a closeness among ourselves. If you attack one of us unfairly, we tend to bristle at it together.

I may have more to say on this later on.

I agree with several of CnC’s points, and with Seela’s statement: “For a group of people that always rises to occasion when someone says this or that isn't real BDSM/sub/dom/whatever, we sure seem to have clear ideals of what a real Lit BDSM Boarder looks like.”

I started out on BDSM, and received some introductory information that was helpful. But after that I hit something of a dead end. On the whole, I didn’t find BDSM Talk very open for questions. Seeing post ignored, or worse, derided, is not encouraging to noobs looking for information, particularly if they’re just starting to explore BDSN and are uncertain of their ground. The forum doesn’t exactly exude a tolerance vibe, and, IMO, comes across as cliquish.

When I eventually wandered into different forums I was surprised, taken aback actually, to find that BDSM has a reputation of being even less friendly than the General Board. I’ve also run into members who've started posting here and moved on. Not trolls, or those looking for wank fodder, but well established posters, some with years of board time and high post counts. This has actually been my experience to a certain extent. I show up in the Cafe to play or make random posts, but I rarely bother check in on Talk anymore. I just find that I get more information on my personal kinks in other, more inviting, forums. The only reason I knew about this thread was because my attention was called to it.

That said, there are some great people here. Without question. And all the forums do develop a flavor of their own. Nothing wrong with that. But…this forum is one of the smallest on the board, and picks up new blood at a surprisingly slow pace considering the widespread interest in kink. There’s probably a reason for that. Unfortunate, to my mind, as it’s diversity of opinion and outlook that makes for a more interesting environment.

BiBunny said:

7.) Most of the people here are either currently doing BDSM stuff in their real lives or have done it in the past. We honestly don't care what you and your online master/mistress/sub/slave/whatever do. That world means nothing to the majority of us, and we don't really relate to it that well. Again, you may have better luck in the Fetish or Roleplay forums.

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This is one of those things that I have noticed fluctuates, along with the "don't label me!"/ "We have to have labels!" argument. Though as the main groups have moved their online relationships into the non-cyber world, the interest has dwindled. And I find that in my old age I'm getting a lot more cynical and a lot less patient with people.

Of course this greatly depends on how you define "online" *shrug*

midwestyankee said:

What does it take to become an insider in the BDSM forum?

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Stick around for a while, be patient with the pace of forums, and kind of get a general understanding of the demographics of the people who post here. I mean, that's kind of how it is for any forum, really.

Oh and the grammar nazis are a dime a dozen, though.

It's been said that we tend to shun newcomers - or at least some of them. What does this look like? What actions constitute shunning in this case?

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I don't feel like we shun newcomers-- we're just not ridiculously cuddly. If someone new comes in to ask advice, we usually give it (and then some). If someone new comes in to announce that they're new to BDSM and will be lurking or whatever, we generally welcome them. (Though I mean, there's only so much you can respond with to an general "announcement" of intent, here.)

And if someone comes in to indulge their fap, we shoo them away. I don't see a problem with that.

Personally, the spelling and grammar nazi shit gets hella on my nerves. I would rather someone have something interesting to say instead of spewing out a bunch of purple prose complete with proper Oxford commas. That ain't in the spirit of "talk" either, as we're so quick to jump on others for.

What are the rules of behavior around here? What rules do we accept for ourselves and inflict on others? Maybe we shun those who don't follow our rules from the get-go, even though it's unreasonable to expect them to know the rules before the door has barely closed behind them. Is that it?

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It's not unreasonable whatsoever for someone new to a community to acquaint themselves with the rules and etiquette unique to that community before jumping in and making a space for themselves. Nobody reads stickies-- and that's not our fault one bit.

-

How did I become a regular? Idk, am I even a regular? I guess; I'm something of a recognizable part of the landscape here sometimes. I have a unique "voice" to my posts, I have an opinion, and I've got the occasional soap box.

Nobody "made" me be a regular though, and nobody "let" me. I muscled my way into a hundred threads, carving out a space for myself here because one day I just decided that this was going to be my community too, dammit, and screw anyone who would try to tell me otherwise. And only after that forceful integration did it get easier and did I start getting recognized as having a voice that could be recognized. There are about a dozen posters here who I would know just from the content of their posts alone, and hey, maybe that's where I'm headed too.

I had to get through that awkward phase of being "somebody posting stuff" before I got to be "KoPilot posting stuff".

Maybe that's the difference.

Midwest Yankee: Thank you for being so introspective and posting what you did. This forum is what it is and that will never change. But, since you asked, while there are many kind and compassionate people here, yes, this place is a very much a clique. I'm far from perfect and have deserved most of the crap I've been given. Still, some people here seem to relish being snarky, and it makes me think of people that put others down to elevate their self esteem. I have been contacted by many sincere people via PM wanting to chat or correspond via PM, I have to tell them that I am not allowed to carry on conversations via PM. I have bent this rule before and later told Sir about it, but, I generally stick to it. Some have been here a long time and still find this place rather hostile. The people that have come and gone after a post or two or lurking here are probably legion.

My sense is that this could be a fun, vibrant place, but after reading BiBunny's rules, I'm not sure what anyone is allowed to post about. I have to file this under accepting things that I can not change .

Industrial_Bondage said:

First, the requirements....

BUNNY! :: pounce and hug in an undignified manner::

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IB!

the captians wench said:

This is one of those things that I have noticed fluctuates, along with the "don't label me!"/ "We have to have labels!" argument. Though as the main groups have moved their online relationships into the non-cyber world, the interest has dwindled. And I find that in my old age I'm getting a lot more cynical and a lot less patient with people.

Of course this greatly depends on how you define "online" *shrug*

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I admit to being half-asleep when I wrote that last night--as evidenced by the fact that when I started rambling, I couldn't stop. I could've been more clear about it, though.

I think we have patience for long-distance relationships. I think we even have patience for some relationships that are online only. But I think when it hits that point where it's more exhibitionism/performance art than anything else...that's where you tend to lose us.


I would like to say one more thing, and I promise to at least *try* to shut up after that.

I have been a part of a number of online communities, each dedicated to a variety of things, from BDSM/sex/polyamory to mental health message boards, work-related things, and horse forums. I've never been outright rejected by any of them, and some of them had some perfectly lovely people.

But this place--not Lit in general, but the BDSM boards in particular--is the only one that has ever made me feel like I could be 100% me, and nobody would mind. It's the reason I've stayed here when all the other places eventually fell by the wayside.

There is definitely a distinct "feel" to this board...and that's why I like it so much. Every other BDSM forum I've ever been on has made me want to commit bodily harm after ten minutes of reading there (and, yes, I've been to most of them). This place is literally the only kink-related place I bother coming to anymore.

So, yes, we are snippy, bitchy, unfriendly old curmudgeons. But if you look closer, you'll see that this is a place where an entire community came together to support one of our longtime members (and his lady, who's also another longtime member) through his sickness, his decline, and his eventual death in recent months. (We've also supported one *another* through it.)

Look closer, and you'll see that this is a place where people can talk openly about mental illness without being ridiculed or made to feel as though their problems are unimportant. You'll see people talking to sex workers about their jobs without any grossness or disrespect. You'll see all kinds of things, should you care to look closely enough.

This place is full of people who've seen me at my worst. The fact that I'm still here is either a testament to how good they are or how stubborn I am. Or maybe a little of both. But I feel like now, since they accepted me at my worst, then they also deserve me at my...well, I hesitate to say "best," so let's go with "at my somewhat more benign."

^^^ Well the fuck said.

Every other kink place I've been to feel like it has this horseshit air of theater to it that is required of participants, and if shit gets too real, then ew, gross.

Realness is kind of what we need from people who want to participate seriously. We don't want some stage persona, we don't want anyone coming in here acting like this is one big play party. It's not, and that's why it feels like home for some of us. You can get fap theater anywhere else.

KoPilot said:

^^^ Well the fuck said.

Every other kink place I've been to feel like it has this horseshit air of theater to it that is required of participants, and if shit gets too real, then ew, gross.

Realness is kind of what we need from people who want to participate seriously. We don't want some stage persona, we don't want anyone coming in here acting like this is one big play party. It's not, and that's why it feels like home for some of us. You can get fap theater anywhere else.

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This. This is why I keep coming back here, even though I don't post much these days. And I suppose that's the thing too, though it takes time to find your feet here once you feel you have a place you don't really lose it. That's why there are posters who drop in annually or so to say hi. I've never seen another message board where that happens...

This place is real, in that to be a regular you have to be real - as a person, not just a PYL/pyl persona. It's an expectation of this board and I think it's what sets us apart. I understand that newbies might not initially feel welcome, but it's like arriving at a social event and expecting people you've never met before to fawn over you because you're new. All that can realistically be expected is a brief but polite welcome, until you manage to be social and engage in appropriate, interesting conversation. Do this times (insert number here) and you have a good chance of being liked and remembered.

I think because of the nature of BDSM newbies and all the associated baggage with being kinky all sorts of emotions can run really high. While I'm sure most people are well aware of the time and emotional investment required to belong to a community I think that it can also be easy to get caught up in ones own sexuality in periods of self discovery and forget social norms.

I still vividly remember the first 20 or so posts here, and how it felt to not belong. In light of what I've felt and the things that helped, here are some things we could work on (if we feel like that is, this place is already pretty fucking fantastic!)

Random non-kinky getting-to-know-you icebreaker type threads that stimulate conversation without necessarily needing any background knowledge like eg. if you could be any animal what would you be and why? Or - in an apocalypse scenario, what would be your top priority? Super easy to answer, non-threatening questions that let others see a bit of your personality.

Threads asking for recommendations or assistance - non kinky eg. Does anyone have a good recipe for using up lemons? Or - what is this part of my car called and any ideas on what's wrong with it? Most people like to be helpful but need opportunities to do so. It's also nice to be able to give back to a community that has taken the time to answer your questions but as newbies are often not confident on kinky things more regular questions helps.

These too things already happen a lot which is great, though they tend to happen in threads like isolated blurt etc. which to newbies may seem too established to break into. I'm not saying established threads should stop, but maybe making a conscious effort to start new thread occasionally to give the newbies some opportunities to participate might make us seem a little more friendly.

Again, it's the personal attacks that are way over the top. The biggest problem here, in my opinion.

Just the word newbie is offensive, to me anyway. Everyone is a newbie somewhere or at sometime. When people call or brush someone off because they are a "Newbie" well what does that say. How is a newbie suppose to learn without asking questions. I would rather a 'Newbie" ask me how to take his weapon off safe before the battle begins. Yes I may have answered that question many times and if I was still in the military I would still answer it the same way and with the same enthusiasm as I did the first time. And with the same heart my DI or Sargent had for me.

And I do agree with some here. some threads seem to almost belong to a few individuals and all else beware of treading there.

Just my own humble opinion and yes I know most will ignore it as who the hell is he to dare poke his face in here. Probably some wanker looking for good wanking fodder. Eh.

The forum description for Talk does say that it is for discussions and I don't think that is whatmost people want.
We have had some really interesting discussions here, that I doubt would have taken place if the norm here would have been "post here if you like x-activity".
The latter is not something you can have a discussion about.

We have had discussions about things like gunplay with loaded guns for example:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=50647833#post50647833

I think there are personal attacks in that thread, but there is a lot of interesting discussion too.
To be honest, I think it's impossible to have this kind of discussion without some heated feelings going overbord here and there.

When I first arrived here, I'd suffered newbie-burn on a couple of other BDSM fora, having asked naive but still genuine questions and got a whirlwind of scorn in return.

So I'd told myself that this board would be my last attempt, put my tin hat on and posted. I was nervous about it - it was like walking into a class where everyone else knows each other and is way ahead of you in knowledge. I did make sure that my questions were polite and as clear as I could make them, read through a host of threads first to make sure I wasn't repeating anything recent, and to my delight, I was made very welcome and given all the wise advice I had been seeking.

Since then, I suppose I have become a 'regular' here although I don't tend to post on the 'serious' threads unless I have some advice backed up by experience to give. Maybe it's because we therefore rely on a small band of regulars to deal with newcomers that they get tired of repeating the same information? I've only had one or two instances of snark, but just responded with something daft or laughed it off. I probably deserved it anyway, and have since become friends with the snarkers

It's been said that we treat sex way too seriously over here. That may be true, but I think it's probably that we have to be more aware of safety in a lot of aspects of it. Possibly that comes across as gravitas to the casual reader, but I think the intention behind it is good.

You will never get rid of nastily snarky posters or the clique aspect - this applies to every board on lit, in my experience. I have posted on threads in the playground etc and been ignored by the 'regulars' so I gave up. It can be difficult when you feel as though you're breaking into a conversation between friends - I find that particularly on the HT thread - so there are many times when I read but don't post.

Collar_N_Cuffs said:

Again, it's the personal attacks that are way over the top. The biggest problem here, in my opinion.

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I have seen a little of that, but it's the cliquey, taking itself so seriously aspect that I find more offputting. In a thread designed to see why people feel unwelcome, the 8th post read more like a private members' club than a welcome mat. Please note I am not attacking the poster, nor her intention which I am sure was helpful, but merely describing how such a post seems to any new person making a tentative step towards this forum. Certainly nothing similar would be posted in the Authors' Hangout, Playground, HT or GB. There is snark, and especially on the GB one needs a reasonably thick skin. But there is no sense of having to prove one's self worthy of an elite group. Only here.

To me, that post, barely changed, meant this. I would love to be proved wrong, I really would, because D/s matters a great deal to me.

1) Don't expect to meet someone here. Go elsewhere.
2)Don't expect sexy pics, etc. Go elsewhere.
3)Don't take yourself seriously, or we will lay into you.
4) Don't be silly, or we will lay into you.
5) Don't talk about what you find sexy. Go elsewhere.
6) Don't talk about punishment (on this BDSM board!), nor about daily routines with your sub (likewise). Go elsewhere. If you want to write stories, go elsewhere.
7)If you are 'only' an online BDSM person, go elsewhere. Because we don't care.
8)Don't expect to have your question answered unless no-one has asked it in several days and preferably months. Ideally it should be unique, and you should have ascertained this by researching in the library. What fun!
9)Don't be enthusiastic about BDSM, because we no longer are. And if you stay here you will certainly end up ashamed of yourself.
10) If we disapprove of you we will either ignore you or treat you as prey.
11) If you have problems, for God's sake keep them to yourself. The worse they are, the less we shall care.
12) At last - a sort of positive! Though it still consists essentially of saying 'Don't post until you've lurked and watched what we do.' Because you must do what 'we' do - heaven forfend that this place should change. And you will be at the sidelines of things for an unspecified time, until we approve. And make sure you think carefully before writing, even when you are ready and have watched us all carefully. And you should check your spelling carefully.
13) And a joke! Because see number 3.