Ocasio-Cortez makes another embarrassing gaffe – and Bernie Sanders tweets it out

The_Trouvere said:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders call themselves "democratic socialists." They can also be called "social democrats." They do not want anything for the United States that does not already exist in many affluent democracies and which works well there.

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Affluent democracies with much smaller population bases. I’m skeptical about what works for Northern European countries scaling up to a population of over 300 million.

Trump wouldn't have not been glad she did that. Kinda like Don't Not Make America Not Terrible Again. Trump gets it, cause he's "like really smart" and has "the best words".

Oblimo said:

Well, here’s the thing.

Pelosi and Schumer = death of the Democratic Party by senescence

Bernie = death of Democratic Party by political suicide

I’m hoping Ocasio-Cortez and her generation of politicians are building their base for the late 2020 elections when the Baby Boomers are finally silenced and they need to pick up the pieces of what is left of this country and start over.

Us Generation Xers have been proven powerless before our parents. It’s up to our kids to save the world.

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Her Communism would destroy the economy and the middle class along with it. She will never be a major figure in American politics. Working people, the backbone of America, will see the inevitable result of her naive policies and vote accordingly. Her district might elect her, however. She might become the new Maxine Waters and enjoy the same contemptuous infamy reserved for her nationally.

Oblimo said:

Affluent democracies with much smaller population bases. I’m skeptical about what works for Northern European countries scaling up to a population of over 300 million.

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It's not really working so well for the Northern Europeans either.

Rightguide said:

Her Communism would destroy the economy and the middle class along with it. She will never be a major figure in American politics. Working people, the backbone of America, will see the inevitable result of her naive policies and vote accordingly. Her district might elect her, however. She might become the new Maxine Waters and enjoy the same contemptuous infamy reserved for her nationally.

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And how old will you be in 2028?

Oblimo said:

And how old will you be in 2028?

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I'll still be a few years under 60, and you?

Rightguide said:

I'll still be a few years under 60, and you?

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Same, my fellow Xer.

BotanyBoy said:

That's pretty incompatible with socialism.

But then Article 4 section 4....REALLY shits on the USSSA dream.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Then there are the 1st, 2nd and 4th amendments that are pretty anti socialistic.

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As I see it, liberty for employers is power over me. When the government reduces that power, I have more liberty.

The Constitution is vaguely worded, and open to diverse interpretations. It is the last refuge of those who know that the majority of voters disagrees with them, and that their views are otherwise untenable.

BotanyBoy said:

You can't have liberty much less secure it for your posterity under a socialist system.

Liberty naturally results in capitalism.....social and economic inequity....hierarchy...class.

All of which is repugnant and unacceptable to pretty much every flavor of leftist.

Of which the socialist advocates the authoritarian seizure of property, the means of production and wealth/resource redistribution programs....socialism...as a way to "fix" these inequities.

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We obviously have different definitions of "liberty."

070276 said:

Perhaps if you actually read and learn the Constitution, you may someday realize your socialist majority/mob rule fantasy of "55%" has absolutely nothing to do with the republican Constitution's command of 67%.

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That is why I want a new constitution, but I think now is a bad time for a Second Constitutional Convention. I will wait until the consensus moves further to the left, as it currently is doing.

I fail to see why a Constitution written by slave owners over two centuries ago for a country of several million people, many of whom were slaves, is the best we can do now.

Rightguide said:

Except those are not the core values of the American majority nor could they be and America remain the beacon of freedom the Founders envisioned.

Mature working Americans instinctively know the economic cannibalism of Socialism will forever devour the machinery of their freedom. They will oppose its employment writ large it at every turn.

The intellectually adolescent idealism of Socialism/Commuism draws its energy from the naivete of the young and the politically unsophisticated. Its eventual product was a sad chronicle of the darkening of the human condition and the most obscene death tolls of the 20th Century and the history of Man. All of it invented and nurtured by elitist intellectuals in the social laboratories of academia where its seeds are carefully protected and incubated, awaiting for the next opportunity to afflict an unsuspecting generation.

The American Republic, its unique doctrines of federalism, and individual freedom, that created the greatest nation in the world, cannot survive the mediocre governance of conformance employed by the typical unimaginative administrative state of socialism.

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The Cold War is over. The reactionary equation of socialism = Communism no longer resonates.

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The Federalist, NOVEMBER 1, 2017 By Bre Payton
Nearly half of American millennials (44 percent) would rather live in a socialist society than a capitalist one, according to a report from the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (VOC) which relied on YouGov polling data.
http://co102w.col102.mail.live.com/...ght.aspx?n=1441695245!n=615769268&fid=1&fav=1

National Review, March 18, 2017

The American Culture and Faith Institute recently conducted a survey of adults 18 and older...

“The most alarming result, according to [George] Barna, was that four out of every ten adults say they prefer socialism to capitalism,” the ACFI noted in its commentary on the poll. “That is a large minority,” Barna said, “and it includes a majority of the liberals — who will be pushing for a completely different economic model to dominate our nation...

That 40 percent of Americans now prefer socialism to capitalism could spell major change to the policies advanced by legislators and political leaders and to the interpretations of judges ruling on the application of new and pre-existing laws.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017...te-george-barna-tradition-liberty-capitalism/

For years there has been majority support for higher taxes on the rich, and no cuts to middle class entitlements.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=5...3i160k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1.261.sc_1mIrqZYw

The_Trouvere said:

As I see it, liberty for employers is power over me. When the government reduces that power, I have more liberty.

The Constitution is vaguely worded, and open to diverse interpretations. It is the last refuge of those who know that the majority of voters disagrees with them, and that their views are otherwise untenable.

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Must be opposite day because each and every point that you made is exactly 180 degrees off except the part about the majority of Americans wanting to vote themselves some plunder.

There's nothing vaguely worded about the Constitution it was specifically designed to prevent exactly what you're suggesting should be done.

The_Trouvere said:

That is why I want a new constitution, but I think now is a bad time for a Second Constitutional Convention. I will wait until the consensus moves further to the left, as it currently is doing.

I fail to see why a Constitution written by slave owners over two centuries ago for a country of several million people, many of whom were slaves, is the best we can do now.

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Why be in such a rush to be Venezuela?

The_Trouvere said:

That is why I want a new constitution, but I think now is a bad time for a Second Constitutional Convention. I will wait until the consensus moves further to the left, as it currently is doing.

I fail to see why a Constitution written by slave owners over two centuries ago for a country of several million people, many of whom were slaves, is the best we can do now.

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Only some of them were slave owners, there were plenty of abolitionists which is how we ended up with the 3/5 rule which you will, of course, interpret as a racist slaver's clause, when it was actually an abolitionist effort to make inroads against the institution of slavery.

But that's what happens when Howard Zinn is your go-to source for history.

Que said:

Why be in such a rush to be Venezuela?

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He's too poor to move there.

The_Trouvere said:

As I see it, liberty for employers is power over me. When the government reduces that power, I have more liberty.

The Constitution is vaguely worded, and open to diverse interpretations. It is the last refuge of those who know that the majority of voters disagrees with them, and that their views are otherwise untenable.

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These words you speak are true.
That's why the Authoritarian Follower mindset (Order uber alles) gets their manties in a wad when you point out the obvious.

The_Trouvere said:

The Cold War is over. The reactionary equation of socialism = Communism no longer resonates.

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The truth resonates:

"The ideologies of professors and educators have proven stronger than facts: The “benefits” of socialism and Communism are taught from the Ivy League to the local community college. A generation has been taught a lie, and they now believe it."

That Socialism is Communism is a fact of degree. Before you see it imposed here society as we know it will have to be dismantled and rebuilt by people with no weapons to enforce their will. It's a losing proposition for your side, TT.

vettey said:

I'll still be a few years under 60, and you?

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lol, you haven't been under 50 in at least a decade, vettey.

The_Trouvere said:

That is why I want a new constitution, but I think now is a bad time for a Second Constitutional Convention. I will wait until the consensus moves further to the left, as it currently is doing.

I fail to see why a Constitution written by slave owners over two centuries ago for a country of several million people, many of whom were slaves, is the best we can do now.

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It was the enforcement of the Constitution that allowed Republicans to defeat the democrat South and free its slaves. It is the Constitution itself that laid the groundwork for the amending process that created the reconstruction amendments outlawing slavery and reiterating the constitutional rights of former slaves.

You seemingly fail to see the reality of the Constitution and its evolution.

The_Trouvere said:

As I see it, liberty for employers is power over me. When the government reduces that power, I have more liberty.

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That is true, but not what we are talking about.

Workers safety/rights have nothing to do with state control over the markets and wealth redistribution.

The_Trouvere said:

The Constitution is vaguely worded, and open to diverse interpretations. It is the last refuge of those who know that the majority of voters disagrees with them, and that their views are otherwise untenable.

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Not really and that "diverse interpretations" means you're bullshitting about what is actually written.....the last refuge of those that know the law doesn't support their perspective.

The_Trouvere said:

We obviously have different definitions of "liberty."

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Yea...mine doesn't include government micromanagement over every aspect of my life right down to my very thoughts.

The_Trouvere said:

The Cold War is over. The reactionary equation of socialism = Communism no longer resonates.

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But it is still true.

RobDownSouth said:

These words you speak are true.
That's why the Authoritarian Follower mindset (Order uber alles) gets their manties in a wad when you point out the obvious.

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LOL ....the liberals aren't the authoritarians here bubba, you and the "progressives" (socialists) are.

That's why your brand of politics requires a strong government authority to make it happen and liberals does not.

Rightguide said:

It was the enforcement of the Constitution that allowed Republicans to defeat the democrat South and free its slaves. It is the Constitution itself that laid the groundwork for the amending process that created the reconstruction amendments outlawing slavery and reiterating the constitutional rights of former slaves.

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Baloney. It was the Radicals who pushed so hard for actual abolition, not Republicans like Lincoln, who simply employed abolition as another tool to champion their statist federal government supremacy cause.

And after Republican Lincoln was assassinated by a Democrat and Democrat Vice President Andrew Johnson became POTUS, it was the Radicals who made effective abolition possible, on the ground in Democratic Southern States, effectively defending all Americans' right to vote and run for elective office. And Radicals were wonderfully effective for a while, as formerly enslaved Americans began to run and win local, State and even federal elected offices, even as the Democratic South slowly began to rise again through murder and imitation.

When Republican Grant won election over the incumbent Democrat Johnson, he chose the new Republican way (pro-Northern industry/wealth), rather than the Radical way of things, which basically allowed the southern Democrats to regain their tyrannical treatment of Americans not their own skin color, treatment so heinously successful that the Democrats regained all southern States power as Grant's scandalous second term came to an end, disallowing the Civil War's Union hero any chance whatsoever of a third term.

And the only reason why Grant's Republican successor Hayes was allowed to become President was because of the repugnant alliance made between Northern Republican businessmen and Southern Democrats racists: instead of the federal government sending desperately needed Union troops to the South to reensure the natural liberty of all Americans against the murderous Democratic forces tyrannically quashing that liberty, Hayes and his Republican Party agreed to keep federal troops out of the Democratic South and ordered them instead to violently quell industry workers in the North to benefit the almost exclusively Republican Robber Barons' businesses.

After post-election months of wheeling-dealing political finagling, Congress had to appoint an Election Commission to determine who was the winner between Republican Hayes - who received somewhere around 4,036,000 popular votes - and Democrat Tilden - who received even more popular votes: around 4,300,000. The Commission - 8 Republicans and 7 Democrats - awarded the Presidency to Hayes by one single electoral vote: 185-184.

Whereas the postal service was the largest federal government presence in the country before the War, during Reconstruction statist federal government bureaucracy began increasing tremendously, and just in the decade when this treasonous-to-individual liberty deal was made between Republicans and Democrats, 1871-1881, the size of the statist federal government bureaucracy doubled again.

It was Republicans who receded back to protect their rich Northern Robber Barons' interests as $$ became the new Republican idea of what was best for the country, leaving the Democrats completely alone to invoke another century of racist, murderous terror upon Americans, Radical Reconstruction be damned.

Howard Zinn is beaming in his grave over the fact that his historical revisions have become the norm for the hard Left.

BotanyBoy said:

LOL ....the liberals aren't the authoritarians here bubba, you and the "progressives" (socialists) are.

That's why your brand of politics requires a strong government authority to make it happen and liberals does not.

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Nice deflection attempt. Didn't work.

Conservatives, specifically Conservative Christians and their Trump zealot auxilliary are the traditional Authoritarian Followers.

RobDownSouth said:

Nice deflection attempt. Didn't work.

Conservatives, specifically Conservative Christians and their Trump zealot auxilliary are the traditional Authoritarian Followers.

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"Christians and their Trump zealot auxiliary" ... you mean most U.S. Citizens?