Old 12-30-2013, 12:48 PM   #301
UnderYourSpell
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Originally Posted by Neonurotic View Post
I feel the same most of the time reading New Poems and I'm sure I write some poems like that too. Several people could look at poem at once, but not see the same thing then all of them could be way off from what the poet intended. I don't have a problem if someone asks questions as long as they're not belittling about the asking.

ETA: for example, the poem I posted from years ago and reposted last year, Clever Like A Crow, there is only one person who saw the eroticism in it. It is an erotic poem that I disguised as non erotic to see if anyone would notice.
Now I see that as a simile (at least I got that much) but not so much the eroticism. I do feel I am missing out on a lot by not asking, for fear of upsetting the poet. I myself have written poems and to me it's as clear as day, but from comments made it's completely slipped past everyone else i.e Riding the Tiger which was supposed to be about orgasm but as far as I know nobody else saw it as such!
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:03 PM   #302
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I've asked poets to explain, and gotten positive responses. I think telling a poet that their meaning is not as clear as they (perhaps) want it to be is helpful. If any of mine ever confuse you, I'd want to know.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:30 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
Now I see that as a simile (at least I got that much) but not so much the eroticism. I do feel I am missing out on a lot by not asking, for fear of upsetting the poet. I myself have written poems and to me it's as clear as day, but from comments made it's completely slipped past everyone else i.e Riding the Tiger which was supposed to be about orgasm but as far as I know nobody else saw it as such!
Sometimes the stream of consciousness loses all meaning once presented in written form. Sometimes there is a deliberate intent to make the meaning obscure, and the poet intends for the reader to "work for it" and decipher what she is reading. Other times the idea is to have the reader form her own interpretation or "truth", and the poem itself is little more than a framework for thought, pointing a certain way. And sometimes they are just cryptic, and that's that.

I don't see why one wouldn't be willing to talk about one's own work, after having exposed it in a public space.

Your poem "Riding the Tiger" is quite clear to me; the meaning of a "dash upwards" and then falling "broken and satiated" isn't all that difficult to understand. Certainly, you cannot "lie satiated" if you are really being attacked by a tiger. So it's a relatable description. I have recently written a poem about "surfing", of "climbing to the top of a wave and riding it until it was spent", and I suppose many other descriptions for this will be more or less the same. So I don't see how one could mistake your poem for something else.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:41 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
so are most of us (over four) unless you measure time by the star of the dog
and as far as communities that pray together, often slay together, so, so much for my belief, but seriously
this thread
is the funniest by far,
for it is said,
if you can't parse it
well
maybe it isn't thar
quite so.

parse thi poim to tha left hand syde


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Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
I have a question to all and on searching around as to where I might ask it, I settled on here.
I have read poems and thought to myself I am sure that is a very good poem but it would help if I understood it more! So would you as a poet be pleased to be asked to explain or peeved that I have my thick head on and need to ask?!!
i'd always hope someone asked me for clarification! i've asked others, loads of times
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:22 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
Now I see that as a simile (at least I got that much) but not so much the eroticism. I do feel I am missing out on a lot by not asking, for fear of upsetting the poet. I myself have written poems and to me it's as clear as day, but from comments made it's completely slipped past everyone else i.e Riding the Tiger which was supposed to be about orgasm but as far as I know nobody else saw it as such!
I think you worry too much about offending people. If you ask a sincere and honest question, those who take umbrage with you for that are the ones who should be concerned about offending others. I know I've offended folks with my replies but if they don't hang around to explain their reaction to me, how can I effect change for the better? Taking offense and failing to express it is paramount to not enjoying a food but never telling the cook that you would prefer not to eat mushrooms.

And if someone is offended that you ask questions about a posted piece of writing then they should definitely turn their email and comments off. That is their problem, not yours as a reader who would like to learn more.
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:43 PM   #306
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One indication of a "Good Poem" for me is that I read it more than once.

Slowly.
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by UnderYourSpell View Post
Now I see that as a simile (at least I got that much) but not so much the eroticism. I do feel I am missing out on a lot by not asking, for fear of upsetting the poet. I myself have written poems and to me it's as clear as day, but from comments made it's completely slipped past everyone else i.e Riding the Tiger which was supposed to be about orgasm but as far as I know nobody else saw it as such!
Liked that poem but I never knew it was about an orgasm; with that fact in mind, it's a much more enjoyable read.
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Originally Posted by Neonurotic View Post
I feel the same most of the time reading New Poems and I'm sure I write some poems like that too. Several people could look at poem at once, but not see the same thing then all of them could be way off from what the poet intended. I don't have a problem if someone asks questions as long as they're not belittling about the asking.

ETA: for example, the poem I posted from years ago and reposted last year, Clever Like A Crow, there is only one person who saw the eroticism in it. It is an erotic poem that I disguised as non erotic to see if anyone would notice.
clever disguise why?
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Originally Posted by Desejo View Post
One indication of a "Good Poem" for me is that I read it more than once.

Slowly.
You always have good comments and suggestions, Desejo,
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:11 PM   #308
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You're right about not wishing to offend and it's a hard to break attribute, the way I was brought up I suppose *she was poor but she was honest* (and if you google that it'll take you to what was then a risque Music Hall song!). I must learn in my advancing years to break tho old bonds of politeness at all costs! It's the British way or used to be!
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They say a smile is a gift which is free to the giver and precious to the recipient.
But giving the finger is free, too, and I find it more personal and sincere.
If at first you don't succeed....skydiving is not for you ....
If you don't pay your exorcist .... do you get repossessed?
I shall always decide not to decide, unless of course I decide to change my mind.
....But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet,Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.......
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:44 PM   #309
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I should probably post this in the 30/30 companion but the threads question call for this one for the simple reason that our old friend context coulors this poem far beyond the skill of the writer when you know this I'm going to sat that the juxtaposition between the two actions were quite clever, but knowledge raises it from merely accomplished to inspired.
shutting up now
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"Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world."- The Budda
"I'll never be a poet" - The Harry
"You are not the whim of a careless creator, experimenting in the laboratory of life... you were made with a purpose"."-Og Mandino
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:59 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by HarryHill View Post
I should probably post this in the 30/30 companion but the threads question call for this one for the simple reason that our old friend context coulors this poem far beyond the skill of the writer when you know this I'm going to sat that the juxtaposition between the two actions were quite clever, but knowledge raises it from merely accomplished to inspired.
shutting up now
Thanks Harry. I'm glad you caught that. I was going to use Muezza's name, but I guess I didn't need to.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:58 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by HarryHill View Post
I should probably post this in the 30/30 companion but the threads question call for this one for the simple reason that our old friend context coulors this poem far beyond the skill of the writer when you know this I'm going to sat that the juxtaposition between the two actions were quite clever, but knowledge raises it from merely accomplished to inspired.
shutting up now
I totally missed that. Indeed, I thought it worked even without knowledge of this Muezza. Of course, knowing of it peels the skin and reveals another layer, which is great. I wonder what else I might have missed in the 30/30 thread. Probably a lot.
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:06 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryHill View Post
I should probably post this in the 30/30 companion but the threads question call for this one for the simple reason that our old friend context coulors this poem far beyond the skill of the writer when you know this I'm going to sat that the juxtaposition between the two actions were quite clever, but knowledge raises it from merely accomplished to inspired.
shutting up now
oh, that's good stuff, harry.. i missed that just as tsotha did. makes the piece a lot deeper than it first appeared. sneaky desejo.

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Originally Posted by Desejo View Post
Thanks Harry. I'm glad you caught that. I was going to use Muezza's name, but I guess I didn't need to.
you know what, though, desi - i didn't have the background knowledge to even see any signposts; maybe not using the name, but possibly a footnote or something might help mark the path we should be on. it's a shame to miss out on a writer's meanings when a little hint would go far. of course, there will be those familiar with the tale who don't need such directions. makes me look again at my own stuff with the eyes of the uninitiated... see i need to be clearer. *sigh*
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:56 PM   #313
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Something you feel - it is stylish and heart felt. I want to feel what you are feeling, through your own words.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:35 PM   #314
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Something you feel - it is stylish and heart felt. I want to feel what you are feeling, through your own words.
sounds good on the surface, but sometimes the best writers can make you feel things you believe they must be, even if they're not. they create a truth to the poem, even if it's all pure invention.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:29 AM   #315
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If more poets wrote like this, there would be a lot more people interested in poetry:

The Afterlife: Letter to Sam Hamill

BY HAYDEN CARRUTH

You may think it strange, Sam, that I'm writing
a letter in these circumstances. I thought
it strange toothe first time. But there's
a misconception I was laboring under, and you
are too, viz. that the imagination in your
vicinity is free and powerful. After all,
you say, you've been creating yourself all
along imaginatively. You imagine yourself
playing golf or hiking in the Olympics or
writing a poem and then it becomes true.
But you still have to do it, you have to exert
yourself, will, courage, whatever you've got, you're
mired in the unimaginative. Here I imagine a letter
and it's written. Takes about two-fifths of a
second, your time. Hell, this is heaven, man.
I can deluge Congress with letters telling
every one of those mendacious sons of bitches
exactly what he or she is, in maybe about
half an hour. In spite of your Buddhist
proclivities, when you imagine bliss
you still must struggle to get there. By the way
the Buddha has his place across town on
Elysian Drive. We call him Bud. He's lost weight
and got new dentures, and he looks a hell of a
lot better than he used to. He always carries
a jumping jack with him everywhere just
for contemplation, but he doesn't make it
jump. He only looks at it. Meanwhile Sidney
and Dizzy, Uncle Ben and Papa Yancey, are
over by Sylvester's Grot making the sweetest,
cheerfulest blues you ever heard. The air,
so called, is full of it. Poems are fluttering
everywhere like seed from a cottonwood tree.
Sam, the remarkable truth is I can do any
fucking thing I want. Speaking of which
there's this dazzling young Naomi who
wiped out on I-80 just west of Truckee
last winter, and I think this is the moment
for me to go and pay her my respects.
Don't go way. I'll be right back.


Source: Poetry (January 1999).
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:49 AM   #316
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oh, that's good stuff, harry.. i missed that just as tsotha did. makes the piece a lot deeper than it first appeared. sneaky desejo.

you know what, though, desi - i didn't have the background knowledge to even see any signposts; maybe not using the name, but possibly a footnote or something might help mark the path we should be on. it's a shame to miss out on a writer's meanings when a little hint would go far. of course, there will be those familiar with the tale who don't need such directions. makes me look again at my own stuff with the eyes of the uninitiated... see i need to be clearer. *sigh*
I think poems should stand on their own. I did consider adding some clues to that poem, but it comes down to people building on their own experience. The story of Muezza is very well known in many parts of the world - but that doesn't mean they would have understood the reference either. Harry, I'm curious about how you did? Had you heard the tale before?
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:38 AM   #317
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I think poems should stand on their own. I did consider adding some clues to that poem, but it comes down to people building on their own experience. The story of Muezza is very well known in many parts of the world - but that doesn't mean they would have understood the reference either. Harry, I'm curious about how you did? Had you heard the tale before?
Too many years to remember exactly, I do know that the memory byte was about a Persian/Chinese emperor. was surprised when Mohammad's name came up. I must have read a Christianized/purified story. I expect there are quite a few versions.
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"I'll never be a poet" - The Harry
"You are not the whim of a careless creator, experimenting in the laboratory of life... you were made with a purpose"."-Og Mandino
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:55 PM   #318
Tsotha
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Too many years to remember exactly, I do know that the memory byte was about a Persian/Chinese emperor. was surprised when Mohammad's name came up. I must have read a Christianized/purified story. I expect there are quite a few versions.
I'd read about it before, but I didn't make the connection because derpity derp. *shakes head*

Last edited by Tsotha : 01-02-2014 at 01:57 PM. Reason: grammar derp
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