Men, I'm dissapointed

NippleMuncher said:

So you're pissed that you can't walk into a crowd of strangers and randomly pick someone who has the ability to know your body intimately and have all the secrets to get you off, all of this without ever having met you before?

And you're bitching about this while you have "plenty of awesome guys you like to have sex with". I only have one question for you, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!? Seems you're bitching about getting cake AND having to eat it too. Then you're bitching that the cake you have isn't good enough, so you bitch some more that you have to taste other cake . . . Maybe the problem isn't the cake . . .

Why don't you come back when you have a real problem you'd like help with. Welcome to the real world, where finding a compatible mate, whether for one night or for a lifetime is the exact same for both sexes. For your information, finding a good woman for anything, let alone sex, is just as difficult for men.

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IRL its common for most of us to pick out the worst person in the world from a group of strangers; happens all the time. If she attracts me she's seriously damaged goods. In exchange for Mom Mother Nature rewards us with her dead ringer to ruin our lives. Then you know what drove dad to drink.

pmann said:

I really hope that my post wasn't perceived as rude. I genuinely was trying to just point out that maybe you need to look at your own expectations.

Sometimes I sound like a dick when I'm not trying to be.

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Sounded fine to me and your sentiment matches my own, but then I'm probably considered one of "those" men by the poster, so what the hell would I know?

Sheana_V said:

I've heard the refrain before about how easy it is for women to get laid. I sometimes wonder how many men actually consider the prospects from the other side.

- A great deal of men spend little time on outward appearance. Poor fashion choices, letting their body go, etc...
- Personal grooming seems to be lacking as well. Countless times have I opened a package to discover it smells of sweat and pee.
- Not to mention the constant fear that a guy is going to assault me. Countless times have I walked away from a guy flirting with me and been called a "bitch" or worse.
- Even when a guy is reasonable so frequently there seems to be a sense of entitlement. I've gone this far so I must want to go further. I want to have sex with you, therefore my only interest is making you cum, etc...
- Also the idea that you got me off, so I should be 'grateful' and 'honor your compassion'.

And don't even get me started on "nice guys", they're the worst.

What's really frustrating is that the way men seem to want to carry on in this society creates all these barriers to sexual interactions. Getting play when your a woman is not even close to easy.

So, what's the deal?

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WOW, someone's had a bad date or dates!!!!!!!! Try not to be so negative and maybe mr right will come along!

NippleMuncher said:

Sounded fine to me and your sentiment matches my own, but then I'm probably considered one of "those" men by the poster, so what the hell would I know?

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I've always taken you as one of "those". I just assumed you WERE an assaulty kind of guy. But that's just based on statistics.

pmann said:

I've always taken you as one of "those". I just assumed you WERE an assaulty kind of guy. But that's just based on statistics.

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That is profiling, and I'll have NONE of it!

With you around, at least we know that I'm in good company, eh?

Sheana_V said:

Right, and I'm suggesting there's a reason for that. Some men are making it hard for the rest of men. Ignoring the attractiveness and the cleanliness, the respect for boundaries is an absolute must. A guy risks getting shot down approaching a woman, a woman risk sexual assault. The comments on this thread seem to reinforce that notion.

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'the comments on this thread reinforcing that notion'. I haven't seen any sexual violence expressed or implied by the respondents. Maybe the OP should consider how insulting to imply such a thing actually is and how harmful that can be to guys.

To clarify the point, given the spirit of your original post was about seeing things from the otherside maybe you should think about what it's like to get shot down by a woman. Essentially guys are in this contradictory situation where they are pressured to initiate contact with women. Perceived sexual accomplishment is a large factor to the esteem in which we hold a man. However, expressed male sexuality is frequently seen as creepy, threatening, predatory, or dangerous. When a guy tries to flirt he is risking a double hit to his esteem (eg being seen as a failure and as a creep) as well as the negative feelings that from realising he may have inadvertently 'harassed'someone.

Furthermore consider the following:

Sexual interest a woman reciprocates = flattering for her.
Sexual interest a woman doesn't reciprocate = unpleasant.
Therefore…
Hot guys = confident.
Average guys = creepy.


And given most people are average, because that's what average is, we have a rather unpleasant state of affairs.

Ultimately, guys are limited in the options to express their sexuality for fear of being labelled as a sex-offender. Sheana_V's comments don't help with this.




***Apologies for the repost / self-plagiarism***

So wait, you're telling me women don't want to unwrap a sweaty package?

*cue skeptical face in three...









two...









one....*

pmann said:

I've always taken you as one of "those". I just assumed you WERE an assaulty kind of guy. But that's just based on statistics.

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I've heard some of the hush-hush 'round these parts and there are some here who assume you're one of those "gentle persuader" types, in a total Rapey Dave kinda way.





It's just what I heard though, by the water cooler like.

Probably nothing, right?

NippleMuncher said:

Seems you're bitching about getting cake AND having to eat it too. Then you're bitching that the cake you have isn't good enough, so you bitch some more that you have to taste other cake . . . Maybe the problem isn't the cake . . .

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Cake is never the problem! Who the hell complains about cake???

imemkay said:

Cake is never the problem! Who the hell complains about cake???

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At least SOMEONE around here appreciates good cake.

some thoughts

Greetings,

A friend of mine once pointed out that women are like cats and men are more like dogs.
My friend is a guy and it is not intended as an insult. Just a distinction.

I can't speak for all women of course but people seem to have forgotten the sensual and just jump to the sex.

There is a lot missing from the dance that is suppose to be sex.
Maybe you can recruit a student. Give them detailed instruction.

I think there is a lot to be learned from other cultures. Like the geisha tradition in

Japan or Tantric yoga.

just some thoughts

Blase said:

What those guys are complaining about is how difficult it is for many males to get to have sex at all.

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Sheana_V said:

Right, and I'm suggesting there's a reason for that. Some men are making it hard for the rest of men. Ignoring the attractiveness and the cleanliness, the respect for boundaries is an absolute must. A guy risks getting shot down approaching a woman, a woman risk (sic) sexual assault. The comments on this thread seem to reinforce that notion.

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Well, of course there are reasons for it. But I have a hard time going along with the idea that the primary reason is that the indifferent personal grooming and bad behavior of a minority of males are, as they say, ruining it for the rest of us.

I have no trouble accepting that as a contributing factor, but I think the problem is mostly explained by the time-tested observations that guys are essentially always horny, and sex potentially has a much higher "transaction cost" (i.e., pregnancy) for females than for males (and that is true whether or not you add the possibility of sexual assault).

In other words, from the female point of view, sex is a buyer's market.

And your comments seem to reinforce that notion.

JtohisPB said:

This is presupposing that women don't ever find average guys attractive, which is not true. There are unattractive men, for sure, and men who give women the creeps. Just being average in appearance does not automatically lead to creepy guy status.

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And "average" is subjective. One woman's hottie is another woman's creeper.

Rainshine said:

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No that's not what you're telling me or no women don't want to unwrap a sweaty package?

Miles Long said:

No that's not what you're telling me or no women don't want to unwrap a sweaty package?

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Yet another example showing how even the minimum standards are not being met...

Minimum requirements:
- Clean and well groomed
- Dressed with at least some sense that they paid attention to their clothes.
- Respectful of boundaries
- Able to communicate effectively

JtohisPB said:

This is presupposing that women don't ever find average guys attractive, which is not true. There are unattractive men, for sure, and men who give women the creeps. Just being average in appearance does not automatically lead to creepy guy status.

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Yeah, you're right being average in appearance on its own doesn't automatically lead to creepy guy status. However being average in appearance plus demonstrating sexual interest is more likely to result in that guy being labelled a creep than a more attractive dude.

This youtube clip demonstrates it quite well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbeEuYAZFL4

shiny5437 said:

Yeah, you're right being average in appearance on its own doesn't automatically lead to creepy guy status. However being average in appearance plus demonstrating sexual interest is more likely to result in that guy being labelled a creep than a more attractive dude.

This youtube clip demonstrates it quite well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbeEuYAZFL4

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Pretty much this. The average guy has to work harder and be more aggressive. Hence, a higher chance to look like a creep. Good looking men not only get what they want more easily, they can sometimes sit back and wait for women to take an interest on them.

A lot is said of how the beauty standards "men" set for women mess with their self-esteem, as if those same standards did not exist for men. These people have obviously never watched a below average man being shot down repeatedly.

- Clean and well groomed
So, basically sit around and do nothing all day between grooming sessions then. Wait a second... So, it was her idea to go dancing. She all but pulled me out onto the dance floor. In order to try to make her happy, I danced. And now I'm supposed to feel guilty that I might not be quite as fresh as when I picked her up for our date three hours ago?

- Dressed with at least some sense that they paid attention to their clothes.
Denim is more durable and stands up better to the punishment a day of actual work can put them through. Leather is even better. No, in fact, I don't wear it to "look cool" but because skidding across gravel at thirty miles an hour might hurt a little less than doing so in slacks. And if my shirt happens to be un-tucked, then just maybe I have just finished doing something with my arms other than dangling my hands on the ends of them like that pretty boy who looks like he is waiting for a photographer to wander by.

- Respectful of boundaries
And yet, when I have been, word filters back to me either from the person herself or through the network that she is disappointed that I DIDN'T try anything. If you don't want me to look at your cleavage, wear something higher cut. When I don't look anyway, even though I could probably see your navel when you bend over, don't whine because I was trying to be a gentleman. If I glance over and notice that if your hemline was any higher our ears would pop, don't be bothered that I notice or wear something longer.

- Able to communicate effectively
Right back at ya sister. Don't pull up every slight, real or imagined, that I, or some other male, might have committed in the past six months during an argument. Or try to make something of the fact that I held the door open for you AND the lady behind you that I didn't know. Her attractiveness had absolutely nothing to do with my continuing to hold the door open and neither did the tip I left for the waitress a month ago. Just admit that you are feeling bloated and unattractive as is natural for that time of the month and I can address that and we can move the fuck on.

Finally, as far as the prospects of sexual assault, here's a little tip. More often than not the guys who will do that ARE the pretty boys standing on the corner holding up the lamppost while they wait for a roving photographer to come past. Any budding psychology student will tell you that sexual assault is not about sex at all but about on par with vandalism so far as mental and emotional motivations go. To "put her in her place". A real man doesn't feel that way when he looks at an attractive woman. A real man will walk away if he even thinks he might be bothering her and never look back.

Now, if you will excuse me, since I can tell that my thoughts on the subject are bothering you, I will walk away and not look back on this thread.

Rainshine said:

Hey! I no speak good but I keep my package sweat and pee free.

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Yeah, I heard about those bucket baths out in the yard, with your fancy rag on a stick.





A clean package is a package ready for action.





. .

How about being pro-active instead of expecting things to fall into your lap? if you unwrap a "sweaty" package drag your friend into a shower for some soapy clean fun..

instead of complaining that if they make you come they want an award... make yourself come? if he doesn't know how teach him, if done properly its a turn on for him and a mean to your end.

as for boundaries they have them or they don't ; I don't know how men are raised in your area... but I have yet to be called a bitch and I have turned down my fair share of unsolicited attention, usually saying you're sorry but you really aren't in the mood for some company usually works wonders you don't need to bruise their ego cause you aren't interested

as for the sense of style well most of men are dressed by their mother or girlfriends( aka in some cases , exes) so they just piece together whatever they have on hand or whatever the store clerk said looked good on them so don't blame them too much...

Niktala said:

as for boundaries they have them or they don't ; I don't know how men are raised in your area... but I have yet to be called a bitch and I have turned down my fair share of unsolicited attention, usually saying you're sorry but you really aren't in the mood for some company usually works wonders you don't need to bruise their ego cause you aren't interested

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I think you may be the first to address that part of the OP's problem. Meeting guys in venues where you often get called a bitch for rejecting their advances (I'm guessing that *most* of these encounters have not occurred at, say, charitable fundraisers) is sort of like walking down dark alleys at night and complaining that one is likely to get robbed.

Do you have a right to walk down dark alleys at night? Yes.

If someone robs you, are they in the wrong, despite your presence in a secluded spot at a late hour? Absolutely.

Should you have known better...?

I've completely given up on this thread.

Sheana_V said:

I've completely given up on this thread.

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As have most others, including the OP, whom we can only guess was trolling for sympathy, but obviously not getting any from the natives.