BDSM Advice

Miles Long said:

You're still talking about Lit?

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... I forgot to say 'except on the GB'.

KimGordon67 said:

Interestingly, often even the things you think are 'what you want' can turn out not to be, and vice versa. It really is, at least in my (amazingly limited) experience so totally dependent on the other person. If you have an emotional connection with them, that's (again, in my limited experience) the foundation for everything else ... how that's expressed through relinquishing and taking control, etc etc is the structure you build on top of that, but for me the emotional connection is fundamental. And being able to have a laugh. Because sometimes things are just a bit silly.
(My in-charge guy has a very inquisitive cat, and we'd often forget to shut relevant doors. Trust me, it's hard to take much seriously, no matter how extreme you're being, when a curious cat suddenly makes it's presence known. If he couldn't laugh about that, I probably wouldn't be with him.)

And yes, there are some lovely people in here. I especially like how we're all respectful of each others differences.

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What a wonderful way to put things. I'm glad to hear that you have that kind of relationship. It sounds sublime.

I know what you mean about the cat. My tabby has a way of interrupting at the most inopportune times

Red_Camellia said:

Some questions I did have, if you know the answer, how do you determine dom's different styles? Are people pretty straight forward about it, I guess specifically in more in person gatherings? How do people tend to size each other up? Is there a kind of "dom" that you were thinking about when you said to start slow?

I don't know if I want someone who's overbearing, but I definitely do want someone who won't let me get away with things once they catch onto what I'm up to haha

Thanks!

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Contrary to what other people have said, I don't think that online/phone/long-distance things are any good. These things deal with fantasies much more than they will let you get a feel for the real thing. We could go into a chat and talk and roleplay right now - but that would be totally different how things would go if we were to meet in reality.
I would suggest going out and getting a real boyfriend to experiment with. Is it more dangerous? Well, yes, as any other real interaction. But in reality, if you know how to behave and not be taken advantage of by a douche domiannt - it's not much more dangeorus than a vanilla boyfriend. Those can be jerks too. It doesn't mean you should date online to stay safe. If you do, you'll find yourself as a 45-year-old homebody with no husband.

Now, how do you measure the Dominant up? That's a difficult question, because there're so much stuff in BDSM, that pretty much everyone have their tastes. How do you measure foreign food up? Is it good or is it not? The answer is - you need to find dishes that you like.

When choosing a dominant, there are a few things a Sub should be aware of. Red flags. It's easy to fall into sub-frenzy and ignore the signs and tells. Read below with a grain of salt, because there's just so many shades in BDSM, but generally - those are all fair points.

First things I recommend - get a relationship. You may search for a Dominant person or a Master - but always remember that this person should want a relationship with you more than he wants a kink. He should be OK with starting vanilla.
Red flags:
- Starts ordering you around before you've agreed on anything
- Talks about kink more then he does about casual stuff. Doesn't seem to want to get to know you outside of your Sub identity.
- Assumes kinky sex is on the table right away, from the very first time. (Always start with vanilla. Always.)
- Assumes you are submitting to him right away. (Always start your relationship casually. You've searched for a Dom specifically and met one? Great! Now you need to get to know each other BEFORE kinky stuff begins. A good Dom will probably want that too.)

Second thing to avoid - many "Dominants" operate on an unhealthy fantasy of BDSM. They don't understand the responsibility of dominating someone. They basically watched some porn or read a bad novel (ahem... 50 shades... ahem!) and think that they can get a passive toy to play with and then store in a cupboard. There are many people who mistake abuse for BDSM.
Things he should understand:
- YOU define the limits. He operates inside of them, never crossing.
- He is responsible for making it fun for both. If this means making you cry out of pain - fine; but if it doesn't - he will have to suck it up.
- He should equally respect both his own and yours fantasies. If he's not particularly interested in something but you are - he includes it.
- The way you play is defined equally by both of you. It's a consensus between both of your wants and needs, as well the limits of both of you. You have an open talk about this, and return to it any time you or he wants to adjust. Not a Sub-to-Master talk, but the talk of equals.

Red flags:
- He says he will get to decide and you don't get a say in anything. (very common)
- He tries to shame you into submitting. ("You are not a real sub if you argue so much!"). Very common too. If you feel like you are emotionally pushed into something - time to stop and evaluate. A good Dom makes you feel good about yourself, even when you are not following every order. He will understand there's a reason why you misbehave.
- He does something without asking you first. This may not seem like much at first, but it's a potential for disaster down the road. There were people here who thought it was OK to use etching acid on Sub's skin "to make her itch". He ALWAYS comes to you openly if he has new ideas, before implementing them. Any surprises - leave them out.
- He lies. Bad even in a common relationship - disastrous in BDSM.
- He discards easily any of your concerns, ideas or needs.
- He insists on something that hinders your other obligations in life (work, friends, family).
- He doesn't take criticism well. (Very common). A good Dom always likes criticism because it empowers him to do better next time. A bad one will disregard it, laugh it off or make you feel bad for criticizing.

But just as important as "How should a Dom behave" is the question that people don't tend to ask as often. How do you behave as a Sub? Here are a few advices:
1) Research. As a Sub, you should know BDSM practices just as well as your dominant - including safety measures and possible hazards. If a new thing comes up - you open the Net and research.
2) Your submission is not automatic but earned. Be your own person, know when to stand your ground when it matters. Treat your submission as a game, a fun activity - and keep a clear head to always make decisions on the rules of that game.
Granted, later in life, with a well-known partner or a husband, you may end up submitting completely, totally. But with a new guy? No, always treat it in sessions, don't allow anyone too much control over your decisions.
3) Be open about what you want. Be even more open about your limits. Don't hesitate to say "No" and call your master a jerk if he doesn't respect it. No means no. He is allowed to discuss the issue with you, but he's not allowed to disregard it or try and push you into changing your opinion. No means you are not ready, period.
4) Always tell your master what you liked, commend him on his effort. Dominating someone IS an effort. Give him honest (even if sweetened) feedback of what can be improved. ALWAYS tell him if you didn't like something. As a Dom I can say that there's no worse breach of trust than to find out that your sub kept things to herself while hating something. Be open.

5) Educate your Dominant. I've described many bad things and red flags above, but it's actually important to understand that most of them happen because of ignorance and the wrong outlook and exposure they got. If a dom Initially acts like a douche - chances are he's really a douche. But also there's a good chance that he's actually a good guy, but mislead. If you know about how things SHOULD go more than him - don't hesitate to teach him. It will quickly become apparent from the discussion if he's ready to learn from you. This is another reason to learn things yourself.

Red_Camellia said:

What a wonderful way to put things. I'm glad to hear that you have that kind of relationship. It sounds sublime.

I know what you mean about the cat. My tabby has a way of interrupting at the most inopportune times

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I've actually been really lucky in that I've had two or three relationships that worked like that, with guys who have been ... well, really good for exploring things in a safe but fun and really exciting way. Because you don't want safe+boring ... well, I don't anyway. I guess some people like that?

I have to say I entirely disagree with the notion that online/phone/whatever relationships can't be 'real' ... but you'll have read my thoughts on that elsewhere (or at least you know where those thoughts are). They don't work for some people ... for those of us they do work for, they very definitely are 'real'.

Trust your gut. And if your gut turns out to have been wrong, just learn from that.

But go slow is always great advice. Unless you're actually 93 (which seems unlikely but I guess possible) you have all the time in the world.

@Nezhul
First of all,
Thank you so much for going to the effort of writing all that down. That's incredibly kind of you and way more than I expected.

I think your red flags and what to look out for seem like great things to keep in mind. I'll definitely put a pin in this so I can look back on it.

Again, just thank you so much.

@Kim
I think if people actually wanted safe+boring sex the term "spice things up in the bedroom" wouldn't be so common haha

I'm not 93 so slow is probably okay haha. I think what I'll do for now is see if I can meet some subs (I can talk shop with) at the munches someone mentioned before. I think it would be a good compromise between getting to make things more of a reality versus feeling safer.
It sounds like you've had some wonderful online relationships (especially from the thread you've linked me to, so it won't be something I'll take off the table.)

I think for now, I'll try to enjoy the literotica community and BDSM threads so that I don't jump in with a "toad" as you called it.

Nezhul said:

Red_Camellia
Did you have any BDSM experience at all thus far? I didn't quite get that part.

If not, then that's what I recommend you to do. Find yourself a good Dom, one that will first and foremost seek balance of both of your interests, and not just go "You will do what I say and won't have a choice in the matter!!!"

You mention fantasizing about Non-con. It may seem like overbearing dominant is what you want - one that will shut you down every time you try something or ask for anything. One that will say things like "As a sub you need to take everything I put you through" or "As a sub you shouldn't complain".
It may seem that that's what you want, but I warn you against it.
You need a sane, albeit maybe harsh Dominant. I still recommend starting slow and working your way up from there. The main distinction between a good Dom and a horny boy with a head full of crap is that real Dominant will check in with you a lot and never overstep boundaries you place. He will not even push them (A definition many bad dominants seem to like) - at least not in the first months of your relationship. But at the same time, this person will be ready to experiment.

Thing about Non-Consent is that I doubt any of us really want that in our lives. Reluctance roleplay - yes, totally. But to have something done completely against your consent - no, I don't think so. I would be careful mentioning this to people before you are well into relationship, just in case someone gets sick ideas and thinks he is justified to rape you.

Depending on where you live, I would also recommend attending a munch or two. It's a great place to meet people and learn a thing or two.

Good luck!

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forgive me for barging in here...
but i suspect what Red Camelia was referring to was CNC (consent- non consent) which is a legitimate way to play in D/s. It is a step farther than "reluctance". it is not for everyone and you would want to be sure that a) you really trusted your play partner and b) you had a safe word in place. i know people who really enjoy this kind of extreme play and do it safely. obviously no one is looking to have a BDSM relationship for a weekend or a year and have it turn into any kind of abuse or sexual violence. this is not at all what i am talking about.

before i made an account, i remember reading a thread here that discussed the pros and cons of on-line relationships? it seems that maybe it is not so uncommon, and so to suggest they are "not real" or they should be avoided altogether belies the experiences of many on this board. could someone find that thread and link it maybe, like Kim did on hers?
thank you.

bzlynzee said:

forgive me for barging in here...
but i suspect what Red Camelia was referring to was CNC (consent- non consent) which is a legitimate way to play in D/s. It is a step farther than "reluctance". it is not for everyone and you would want to be sure that a) you really trusted your play partner and b) you had a safe word in place. i know people who really enjoy this kind of extreme play and do it safely. obviously no one is looking to have a BDSM relationship for a weekend or a year and have it turn into any kind of abuse or sexual violence. this is not at all what i am talking about.

before i made an account, i remember reading a thread here that discussed the pros and cons of on-line relationships? it seems that maybe it is not so uncommon, and so to suggest they are "not real" or they should be avoided altogether belies the experiences of many on this board. could someone find that thread and link it maybe, like Kim did on hers?
thank you.

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I'm not arguing it was a thing. Many people have rape fantasies and can realize them in bed with a partner.

I was just warning about being careful telling random guys about it, because sadly - real rape is a thing, and no one really ever wants that.
For me, "consent - non-consent" is still giving consent for sex, but with a fighting/resisting gimmick to it. It's still 100% consensual. I prefer calling this reluctance, because if you say "non-consent" it confuses people.

As for online dating or via telephone - I just personally find it to not be a full experience. Without seeing a person eye-to-eye, hearing their non-digitized voice, breating them - I can't imagine having a full relationship.
Also it's much easier to be who you normally aren't on the net, for both you and the person you converse with. To say and do things that you wouldn't have done in the real life.
I don't know. I'm not saying no one does it - I'm just saying that in my opinion it's much better to spend your time on real thing than to put hours and hours into an Internet "relationship".
You're free to disagree.

bzlynzee said:

forgive me for barging in here...
but i suspect what Red Camelia was referring to was CNC (consent- non consent) which is a legitimate way to play in D/s. It is a step farther than "reluctance". it is not for everyone and you would want to be sure that a) you really trusted your play partner and b) you had a safe word in place. i know people who really enjoy this kind of extreme play and do it safely. obviously no one is looking to have a BDSM relationship for a weekend or a year and have it turn into any kind of abuse or sexual violence. this is not at all what i am talking about.

...

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I agree with this 100%.

Nezhul said:

I'm not arguing it was a thing. Many people have rape fantasies and can realize them in bed with a partner.

I was just warning about being careful telling random guys about it, because sadly - real rape is a thing, and no one really ever wants that.
For me, "consent - non-consent" is still giving consent for sex, but with a fighting/resisting gimmick to it. It's still 100% consensual. I prefer calling this reluctance, because if you say "non-consent" it confuses people.

As for online dating or via telephone - I just personally find it to not be a full experience. Without seeing a person eye-to-eye, hearing their non-digitized voice, breating them - I can't imagine having a full relationship.
Also it's much easier to be who you normally aren't on the net, for both you and the person you converse with. To say and do things that you wouldn't have done in the real life.
I don't know. I'm not saying no one does it - I'm just saying that in my opinion it's much better to spend your time on real thing than to put hours and hours into an Internet "relationship".
You're free to disagree.

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Online was fufulling and frustrating in a yearning type of way before we met.
Now that we know how it is with us, it’s just not even near enough.

If you are gonna keep online, OP, it’s fine, but your heart can break and fill from that as well. It’s physically less intense, but emotionally it’s right there with the in the flesh stuff.

Red_Camellia said:

Hello,

I wasn't sure if I should post this in the "How to" or the "BDSM" Forum, so I hope that this is an alright place.

I was hoping to get advice from people in the BDSM community.

I've always had a thing for non-con, reluctance, and BDSM stories (first thing I gravitated towards when I found out about erotica actually) but my partners have never been willing to experiment that way with me so its always stayed more of a fantasy than anything else.

However, it's been difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what I want. I love being dominated, but I can be a bit of a brat and enjoy the back and forth of banter and power play. And ultimately cannot help but feel glee when I feel like I've "won" or "beat" my partner (only temporarily of course. I'd be disappointed if I couldn't be outfoxed again. )

I've been seriously considering figuring out a way to test this all out in the real world, but I'm not sure how to go about it.

I don't want to end up leading anyone on if this isn't for me or end up in a situation that's way over my head (haha pun)

I'm only 24 so I am concerned about safety and the risk of being manipulated by someone who sees me as more of a mark or fresh meat.

Since my fantasies are more theoretical than real at this point, I'm not sure where to start. Especially, because some of the kinkier aspects of the BDSM community feels a little overwhelming to me since it's not a realm I've managed to dip my toes in yet.

If anyone could offer advice or maybe stories about how you got your start, I would really appreciate it. Thank you for reading through this obnoxiously long post.

xoxo
Camellia

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Brat for you might be an identity, or it could be a role, or perhaps even an activity you enjoy.

With consensual non-consent, the important thing is to know your own limits. Safety is important, but so is having a fulfilling and rewarding sex life.

What works for you might be terrifying for someone else, and vice-versa.

It's your job, as an adult, to figure out what it is that you want, how to get it, and what your limits and boundaries are, and to respect the limits and boundaries of your partner/s. It's also your job to effectively communicate those needs to your partner/s. It's your partner/s job to do the same.

Your needs, feelings, and desires will almost certainly change over time, and may change day-to-day even. This is normal.

BDSM is normal... or it can be weird. It can be whatever you want it to be.

For me, online/phone has been just as 'real' as anything else. I know people say 'oh - but you can be whoever you want' or whatever ... but that's the case in RL too. Trust me, if you have a year-long relationship with someone where you're in contact with them on an almost daily basis, it's pretty difficult for anyone to maintain a 'false person' over that length of time, even if things are technologically mediated. In one particular instance, I would say I probably spent more time talking with him, about the nature of our sexual relationship, than I have with almost anyone else. And I've had plenty of RL things that weren't 'full relationships' - that's no guarantee of anything. If what you're playing with is dynamics that involve control, you can do that over the phone as well ... I understand that if you've not experienced, or if it doesn't work for you, it's difficult to get, but the sensation of having a voice right in your ear growling instructions to you is, if it's someone you have a real connection with, amazingly intimate.

Farawyn is right - there is maybe an absence of physical intensity, but the rest of it - and often so much of it isn't physical anyway - is just as intense (or disappointing, or whatever) as it is in RL.
And, for me, it meant I could explore ideas in an environment that I knew I had total control over. I get this seems a bit contradictory, given that 'control' was the whole point of the exercise - but I guess you could say that just being able to hang up the phone is the ultimate safe word. The line between 'fantasy' and the real is, I think, present in any sexual context, especially maybe if it involves kink. If someone says 'do this' and you do that because they've told you to, is it less 'real' because they're 10,000 miles away - they're still telling you, and you're still doing.

reading all this debate about real life vs on-line/ phone brings to mind instances (non BDSM examples) where a couple courted and dated and seemed well suited and were just over the moon, and eventually married, only to discover after a year or two or three, that one or both individuals were no longer able to maintain that pleasant "courtship persona" and suddenly neither of them was married to the person they thought they had been involved with all along.

there are risks with everything. people can be honest, or liars, whatever the format.

@richard_daily

Thank you. All very valid points.
That is something that I hope to have a clearer idea of, as time and experience permits. I appreciate the last couple of lines in your reply. It's always nice to hear that there's room for change and differences within relationships.

@Farawyn

You're probably right about the emotional invest and intensity. I'll definitely keep that in mind as I move forward. Intentionally looking for an online relationship isn't something that originally came to mind when I made this post, but if it ever does become more of an option, this is something that will be good to reflect on, as well as other points mentioned by Kim, bzlynzee and Nezhul.

Red_Camellia said:

Hello,

I've been seriously considering figuring out a way to test this all out in the real world, but I'm not sure how to go about it.


I'm only 24 so I am concerned about safety and the risk of being manipulated by someone who sees me as more of a mark or fresh meat.

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You can try to do some online research to see if there are any "Munches" in your area. A Munch is generally a safe, public venue -- usually a diner, restaurant, etc, where a group of like-minded people prearrange to meet and get to know each other in a casual, non-threatening, no-obligation setting -- while having a good meal at the same time! I've attended several throughout the years in my area, and have always met fun, interesting, kinky people.

You might check in to the Daddy/girl dynamic. Within that relationship, there's a lot of info about bratty subs. Here's just one link https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMcommunity/comments/4aq1qx/how_to_deal_with_a_bratty_sub/

Might be worth looking around.

I have a couple of submissive girlfriends who subscribe by the idea that if they aren't challenged and then overpowered by their Dominant, if they aren't put in their place, that somehow their submission hasn't been earned. They've had no issues being in relationships with guys they like who happen to be the kind of Dominant they desire.

As everyone else has suggested, it's just finding the partner you want to be with. I like chubby guys who make me laugh, like to tie me up and pee on me. You like what you like. It's fun to explore. Good luck.

@ouchfeelsgood
Thanks! I think that sounds like a great place to start, and I always enjoy meeting new people anyway


@cookiecat
Thanks for taking the time to link a resource! I'm definitely enjoying getting the chance to read up on things in and out of literotica. It's been very helpful and informative!

I think one of the double-edged swords of munches, and even online forums, is that there are a lot of preconceived roles that people fall into. I'm old enough to remember a time before the internet, as a burgeoning adult, and kink was something that you explored. Sometimes with trepidation, and sometimes with gusto, but you had to search it out.

It's a lot easier to find the role and identity that you mesh with now, but there's also the danger that you might miss a lot of the exploration and wonder of finding it out on your own, and sometimes through a lot of trial and error.

Personally, I despise munches. I'm sure there are some that are fun, enjoyable, and rewarding, but I definitely haven't been to any (and I've been to a good amount of them). It feels like all of the negative things from high school: showmanship, cliques, gossip, and backstabbing.

Well what it is....

I find it's only a game play, you shouldn't take it any
more seriously.

If you take it serious, that's where the danger lies.

That's agreed too, Richard.

Alright so first of all I'm glad you chose to ask questions. Questions are good, too many people make the mistake of jumping right into something without asking the right questions and end up being manipulated into something else. Second, and ultimately, everything will come down to you and your own choices. Keeping that in mind, you don't have to be any one thing in particular. You can be a sub while still being bratty, you aren't a mindless slave. But at the same time, you can be into kinky aspects and not have anything to do with BDSM at all. BDSM does NOT have to have anything to do with sex.

Yes BDSM can have what seems like "categories" but you don't need to become one yourself. Someone sort of posted the categories above but they were only half correct. BDSM actually is combined into 3 separate parts, containing 2 of the letters. Bondage/Discipline, Dominance/Submission, and Sadism/Masochism. Which is all well and good but again, categories don't matter.

Nezhul has some really good things to say about red flags and you should definitely take it into consideration. It sounds selfish but you need to put yourself first when it comes to choosing a dom, and yes, YOU choose a dom, if of course you decide you want one to begin with. If one does want a dom they need to remember that and take care of themselves. Me personally being a dom, I would not want a sub that cannot think for themselves. I don't want a mindless slave, they have toys for that. You are not a toy to be used and discarded again until I want to get my rocks off again. Submission is more than just getting tied up during sex. Kinky sex is kinky sex, submission is more. Which reminds me of something I wrote a few years ago.

"The gift of submission is a topic of much controversy among many people. In my opinion, submission is not a gift, well should not be. A gift by definition is something that is given freely with no thought or request for anything in return. Sure I suppose that fits the bill for many, but for me submission must be earned. A Sub should not blindly or freely give her submission to anyone and expect nothing. She deserves and should receive just as much from the person she is giving herself to. A wise and caring person would understand what exactly someone is embracing when giving someone their submission to another, but many either don't or just won't care. Through time together, the two will begin to understand each other and earn the respect and trust of each other, and THEN submission and dominance may be earned. Far too many times I have seen someone offer the gift of submission only to suffer through either a short and painful experience, or a long and agonizing one. Submission isn't free."

I also have some thoughts on MY personal opinion of the relationship between a dom and a sub.

The relationship between a Dom and his Sub is most often undervalued, unappreciated, and abused. Having a true Dom/Sub relationship is a beautiful thing that makes both of them flourish..not just one or the other. They complete each other. Fill the voids. Bring feelings out in each other that they never even knew existed. I have a lot of feelings about this and will do my best to explain.

A true Dom leads. A true Dom inspires. A true Dom also knows how to follow. He doesn't tower over her as something to be feared, but rather something to be looked up to with respect love and admiration. He stands as her protector...her savior...her Dom. He shows her the path and leads her, knowing that she will be right there behind him, ready for his wishes. He inspires her to greater things. He inspires her trust and earns her respect. He is always there for her just in the same way she is always there for him. He would gladly change rolls with her to make her happy. In a true relationship he serves her just as much as she serves him. If anything it takes just as much if not more strength to follow as it does to lead. And he needs to be strong for her. Her happiness is just as important as his. He doesn't view her as property to let fall into decay from lack of attention and care. Even if she belongs to him, she cannot flourish without him. Even in giving herself to him, he knows she is still a person. A person who chose to give herself to him completely. He knows what that in itself means and doesn't take advantage of this, but rather admires her strength, dedication, and courage.

A true Sub follows. A true Sub serves. A true Sub stands strong for her Dom. She is not so much owned by her Dom but rather possessed. She belongs to him by choice. Owned implies that there is a price or value on her. She is priceless. She lives to serve her Dom and make him happy. His smile exalts her. His laugh brightens her. His hand on her head in approval and love calms her. She loves her Dom. She admires him. She respects him. She follows him trusting completely that her Dom would never steer her wrong. His strong hand guides her..protects her..caresses her. She trusts that he will provide for her and gives herself completely to him. She knows that he would never forsake her. Wherever she is, at his side or at his feet, she feels safe and calm knowing that he is with her. She doesn't serve out of weakness. She doesn't serve out of lack of guidance on her own. She is strong for her Dom and for herself. He completes her and she doesn't want to live without him..but even without him she still stands strong with her head held high because she chooses to submit. Everything she does she does it knowing that she is representing her Dom. For this reason she conducts herself with pride and dignity even while submitting. She is not embarrassed to serve. She is happy knowing that she is his and he is hers.

Again, these are my personal opinions and everyone has a right to their own. BDSM is a lifestyle, and I have no right to tell someone else how to live their life. But for me BDSM is something to consider carefully. If you want kinky sex, have kinky sex, just remember the golden rule, SSC (Safe, Sane, Consensual). Even if you are participating in non-consensual roleplay, it still should be at your consent and under controlled conditions.