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Breath play

When we do breath play it's typically when he's behind me and he covers my mouth and nose for a few seconds, enough for me to have an exaggerated breath after. He'll place a hand on my throat, firm, but not enough to cut off my air. Occasionally he'll grab me with his arm around my neck like a headlock. It places more pressure on my arteries than my windpipe and is more to leverage control than to suppress my breathing. Nothing has has any lasting marks, bruising, or soreness.
 
The OP sounds exciting, but I think I will give it a miss. Thanks for sharing and starting the thread
Sam xx
 
Jay321 said:
How is that safe? underwater narrows the margin of error to minuscule.

Evidence? not that I am aware of. It is something that was drilled into my head for years. Could this be false propaganda? Maybe, but it is some that I choose to believe, I don't want to inadvertently kill someone.

I think that any safe action, be it words or physical action or whatever, needs to be as simple as possible. When learning my own path I was bottoming to one of two that I would ever allow to top me again, I was so deep into subspace the word "red" was out of my head. I had to be told to breathe.
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I wouldn't call it 'propaganda', because no one's really getting anything out of that discourse of potential danger being pervasive. I just like to know the actual risk of something when making decisions. At the moment, I'm choosing to trust someone who I know doesn't want to fuck things up. But if there's clear evidence that his desire to not hurt me isn't enough, then obviously I'd need to rethink things.

Interestingly though, I was talking to my BF after posting that last comment, and mentioned the bruising potential, and he is actually well aware of that, and applies pressure in a way that minimises the risk. I don't know if that's based on evidence or not, but it's obviously something I don't need to worry about, given that what he's doing is working for me.
 
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MastersDelight said:
When we do breath play it's typically when he's behind me and he covers my mouth and nose for a few seconds, enough for me to have an exaggerated breath after. He'll place a hand on my throat, firm, but not enough to cut off my air. Occasionally he'll grab me with his arm around my neck like a headlock. It places more pressure on my arteries than my windpipe and is more to leverage control than to suppress my breathing. Nothing has has any lasting marks, bruising, or soreness.
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Interesting, isn't it, the differences is people's preferences, even around something like this. For it to work for me, I need something a bit more physical than that ... it's one of the things I've learnt about myself in the past few months, that physicality is an important factor - not always, but mostly ... e.g. I'll also prefer a hand whacking my arse to any sort of implement, and I like it best when there's other physical contact at the same time. For this, it's best if we're extremely physically close when his hand is on my neck, and really actually kissing at the time is my preference.
 
KimGordon67 said:
I'm interested in the suggestions that this sort of things can apparently easily have adverse results. It's something we just sort of 'happened into' yesterday - he had his hand on my throat (I don't even know why), and I suddenly realised I wanted it tighter and nudged his hand ... and as always, he immediately understood what I meant. We were kissing at the time, extremely close, so as he tightened his grip, he could sense exactly where my body was at (and he's *extremely* attentive to that sort of thing - this is far from the first control game we've played), and when I felt that I needed air, I just broke the kiss and he immediately released me. It never felt like I could have tipped over into unconsciousness - more like, as a couple of people intimated, when you're giving someone a blow job and can't breathe because of the full mouth and being hard up against their body. I always hold that as long as possible, because I know he likes it, but at some point I need to come up for air. Obviously the difference here is that when I need to come up for air, someone else *could* stop me from doing that, but I'm pretty confident that's not going to happen.

So is it really possible this sort of thing could go wrong that easily? Are there actually documented cases of this happening?
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Chambers_(criminal)


Yes it has happened.
 
Covering the mouth and nose generally cannot cut off air completely, unless a lot of force was used. But it can add to the sub's sense of helplessness. Generally, just holding the mouth, not covering the nose should achieve the same effect.

True breath play that mess with the windpipe is EXTREMELY dangerous and extra caution is needed. That's truely advanced D/s work, beyond even pain play.
 
Raingirl85 said:
Hi, we do do some light breath play. And YES we are both well aware of the dangers.

My Dom will hold my throat just tight enough that I can't get enough breath to speak, but not so completely that I can't breath at all. This type of choke hold he sustains for mere seconds, maybe 20 seconds at most? Before loosening his grip.

The other thing we do is he will hold my neck while I'm riding him, and I lean my weight/push my neck against his hold. In this way I am controlling how much my breath is restricted, and every facet of the breath play is entirely in my control. I can lean heavily or lightly, for a longer period or a shorter period. I am controlling it.

We also do him covering my mouth with his hand, in which case I can obviously breath through my nose. Due to the exertion of sex this definitely doesn't feel like enough air when left with just my nose, yet it also feels much milder than the choking play.

And as a note-- my Dom was hesitant to do any breath play at all, and what we do was as far as he was willing to go when **I** requested this. He described it as a soft limit. So please don't judge him if you think this is irresponsible..judge me. :)
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Hi I am dominated by two mature ladies and they do breath control by face sitting me, theAy are quite big. The way we do it is as follows, me face up on tAhe floor or bed,Domme straddles mt face facing me feet,spreads her bum cheeks and guide herself onto my face until I am buried in her bum, release is a grunt from me. She might sit the other way and move up my face until only my eyes are visible and open her pussy and clamp my nose inside. Both positiuon has the advantge that is Miss wants to change to me giving her oral sex, she is already in position. Orla
 
KayceeCharles said:
Covering the mouth and nose generally cannot cut off air completely, unless a lot of force was used. But it can add to the sub's sense of helplessness. Generally, just holding the mouth, not covering the nose should achieve the same effect.

True breath play that mess with the windpipe is EXTREMELY dangerous and extra caution is needed. That's truely advanced D/s work, beyond even pain play.
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I'm still curious as to whether anyone has actual evidence of things going horribly wrong. I'm not saying one shouldn't be careful - obviously some close attention to what's happening is needed - but is it really that easy for something bad to happen. The actual cases seems to involve either autoerotic instances (a context in which the extremely high level of risk is blatantly obvious), or fairly extreme cases where people weren't exercising very much care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_asphyxiation
 
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Any breath play should be monitored, and the people who're actively playing may be too busy to do proper monitoring. It's not that hard to cut off circulation to go into full unconsciousness (google "blood choke" vs "air choke" under wikipedia entry of chokehold)

Something like this is extremely susceptible for the Dunning-Kruger effect, better known as "knowing just enough to be dangerous".
 
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All of our breath play has been underwater, which carries its own risks, bit we have safe and stop signs built into everything.
 
KayceeCharles said:
Any breath play should be monitored, and the people who're actively playing may be too busy to do proper monitoring. It's not that hard to cut off circulation to go into full unconsciousness (google "blood choke" vs "air choke" under wikipedia entry of chokehold)

Something like this is extremely susceptible for the Dunning-Kruger effect, better known as "knowing just enough to be dangerous".
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But again, all the documented instances of it going pear-shaped seems to fit into a mould of what I would definitely consider 'extreme', and would never engage in.
 
KimGordon67 said:
But again, all the documented instances of it going pear-shaped seems to fit into a mould of what I would definitely consider 'extreme', and would never engage in.
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But that's because bad news gets reported, but close calls are not reported.
 
KayceeCharles said:
But that's because bad news gets reported, but close calls are not reported.
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So, basically, the only really negative documented outcomes from breathplay have been either in autoerotic contexts or when people haven't been taking even the bare minimum of sensible precautions or have been engaged in relatively extreme contexts. In spite of that fact that there are numerous admonishments that 'any' breath play has clear risks involved, there's little evidence that, with sensible measures in place, that there actually has been a negative outcome.

It seems to be that getting into a car and driving down the highway has more clearly documented risk associated with hit. This is like the 'pregnant women shouldn't drink' argument. Drinking a bottle of vodka a day has a pretty high, and well-documented, risk associated with it. Having a glass of wine every week or so has NO documented risks associated with it, but because we seem to have bought into the dose-response model of medical risk, we assume that if a lot of alcohol is a lot bad, a little bit of alcohol must be a little bit bad. Which isn't proven, and probably isn't true.

The argument that 'all erotic asphyxiation has the potential for harm' seems to be based on the same level of evidence.
 
The advice is "don't touch breath play unless you REALLY know what you're doing". Sexy Playing should not involve risk of death in the bedroom. Experts or at least studied amateurs can properly mitigate the risks involved.

Your analogy of alcohol consumption by pregnant mother affecting the fetus being unclear is actually quite apt. It is not well understood how much of the alcohol passes through the mother's circulatory system to the baby, but it's clear that not all mothers can process the alcohol the same way. One or two drinks a month, or even one a week is unlikely to do any harm. Any more and doctors may start to get concerned. It's about a level of risk, and what one is likely to tolerate.

So it's more about tolerance of risk.
 
KayceeCharles said:
The advice is "don't touch breath play unless you REALLY know what you're doing". Sexy Playing should not involve risk of death in the bedroom. Experts or at least studied amateurs can properly mitigate the risks involved.

Your analogy of alcohol consumption by pregnant mother affecting the fetus being unclear is actually quite apt. It is not well understood how much of the alcohol passes through the mother's circulatory system to the baby, but it's clear that not all mothers can process the alcohol the same way. One or two drinks a month, or even one a week is unlikely to do any harm. Any more and doctors may start to get concerned. It's about a level of risk, and what one is likely to tolerate.

So it's more about tolerance of risk.
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And yet the advice to pregnant women is no alcohol at ALL. In spite of the absence of actual evidence that a minimal intake is fine.
This seems to be the same here - there's no evidence that this particular type of play, engaged in by people who are paying attention to things and are sensible adults, in the absence of anything else that might add additional risk (e.g. hog-tying), has ever caused any actual harm.
I understand how risk evaluation works, but I am concerned we're ending up in a society that's so risk-averse, we're avoiding the exercising of basic common sense.
 
Risks

Managing risk in the bedroom is all about trust, communication, and common sense. When Dawn is holding my head under water while I eat her, she knows that two raps on the side of the tub mean I need to get my head out soon, one means immediately, and even though the game is I don't get out until she comes, the reality is she'd rather not come than have me drown, given that she loves me and all that. There has been one time when she hasn't come before I needed to get some air, and she did not hesitate to let me up. (It was bloody exciting though, fuck.)
 
KimGordon67 said:
And yet the advice to pregnant women is no alcohol at ALL.
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I wouldn't go that far. WebMD, which cites a variety of positions, says it's a controversial subject. Some doctors say zero alcohol, some way a drink per month or per week should be fine. It really depends on the mother, and the "safest" advice is zero alcohol.
 
KimGordon67 said:
And yet the advice to pregnant women is no alcohol at ALL. In spite of the absence of actual evidence that a minimal intake is fine.
This seems to be the same here - there's no evidence that this particular type of play, engaged in by people who are paying attention to things and are sensible adults, in the absence of anything else that might add additional risk (e.g. hog-tying), has ever caused any actual harm.
I understand how risk evaluation works, but I am concerned we're ending up in a society that's so risk-averse, we're avoiding the exercising of basic common sense.
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The message of the day here, is to error on the side of caution when it comes to this. You said so yourself, " people who are paying attention to things and are sensible adults." That's taking for granted that most people are sensible and not prone to getting overexcited and or making a mistake. It doesn't take much to bruise a larynx, around fifteen pounds of pressure, double that and you can crush a wind pipe. Not fear mongering, just important that people educate themselves before attempting something with any sort of potential for doing damage.

I tend to agree with you, but I think the emphasis is less on using common sense and more about accepting responsibility. Trophies for showing up doesn't do anyone any favors, just like never stepping outside your comfort zone limits how much you can truly know about yourself. Just don't be an asshole about it :D
 
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_Necrosomantic_ said:
I tend to agree with you, but I think the emphasis is less on using common sense and more about accepting responsibility. Trophies for showing up doesn't do anyone any favors, just like never stepping outside your comfort zone limits how much you can truly know about yoursejlf. Just don't be an asshole about it :D
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What's with the name calling, necro? That's not very respectful.
 
Gwanji16 said:
What's with the name calling, necro? That's not very respectful.
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I don't think he was calling anyone an asshole. I think he meant don't be an asshole if you do something outside your immediate comfort zone, like hurt someone by choking them due to lack of care, control, or understanding of potential risk.
 
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