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Old 12-21-2012, 12:46 PM   #26
Betticus
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I suspect that it may just be a personal growth kind of thing after reading that.

I don't seem to be in danger of dying lately in spite of the cats newfound malice over being publicly dominated.

My new roomie bakes cookies.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:11 PM   #27
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You guys are kinda lucky. When you have the girlparts, "Dominant" becomes a referendum on what you don't do, not even on what you do.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
You guys are kinda lucky. When you have the girlparts, "Dominant" becomes a referendum on what you don't do, not even on what you do.
.yep.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:58 AM   #29
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I think I'm not quite understanding your meaning, could you give an example?

Is it a general attitude of gender roles? When I meet fem doms it's not so much the labels or gender that I respond to but their personality and bearing over time.

Of course, I don't have the girl parts so my ability to understand this is limited to what I can imagine if I were in your place.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:08 AM   #30
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I usually think of this stuff in terms of brain chemistry...what happens when you're just built that way. Sorta like liking or disliking a type of food. In my case, yes, I have learned to like tomatoes when prepared a certain way a certain way, but I'll be damned if I will ever think my way into liking bleu cheese or disliking chocolate.

Betticus, I believe you're my hero of the day. Not for being right or wrong, but writing beautifully and vulnerably and making me think of nature versus nurture versus all the ways we can think about our lives that flip switches in our heads.

Thanks for being in the world.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betticus View Post
I think I'm not quite understanding your meaning, could you give an example?

Is it a general attitude of gender roles? When I meet fem doms it's not so much the labels or gender that I respond to but their personality and bearing over time.

Of course, I don't have the girl parts so my ability to understand this is limited to what I can imagine if I were in your place.
From the girlparts perspective...I would say it suits social norms for a male to be dominant. It seems "right" and goes together like clouds on a rainy day.

For a woman, there always seems to be some sort of cognitive dissonance, it's taken less for granted. Like it's raining but the sun is out.

Those who work that dissonance instead of fighting it and despairing over it do incredibly well. There's a level of social defiance that needs to be translated into something less banal and more persuasive.

It could be an asset, but it's impossible to fit into the "natural" category. Each women has to carve an "exception" that makes the people around them accept that the sun is out while it's raining and that's the way it should be and to not question it.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:06 PM   #32
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Ok, I think I get it.. Women suffer from some form of cognitive dissonance when it rains and the sun shines on a Domme which leads to an unnatural defiance that requires the application of wolfsbane to persuade them back to a normal state.

That was easy.. I totally understand womens issues.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:29 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betticus View Post
Ok, I think I get it.. Women suffer from some form of cognitive dissonance when it rains and the sun shines on a Domme which leads to an unnatural defiance that requires the application of wolfsbane to persuade them back to a normal state.

That was easy.. I totally understand womens issues.
*makes a note about the wolfsbane*

I learned something!
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidiva View Post
*makes a note about the wolfsbane*

I learned something!
I keed, I keed...

I think that what you are trying to communicate on that matter is that, and this is my interpretation so may be in error.. With the way our societies enforce and teach to our youth traditional feminine and masculine gender roles the entirety of our population is basically conditioned to that mode of belief.

So, with a population brainwashed from early youth and having that brainwashing reinforced through their lives the concept of a Fem Dom is difficult for them to understand as it conflicts with their lifelong conditioning. Female and dominant just don't go together, logically one can grasp the concept but on deeper levels it just seems not right. A male dominant however matches the traditional conditioning and is more easily accepted without any lingering sense of wrongness.

I suppose that in a way for a lot of people a female dom for them just doesn't seem quite real.

I can tell you right now those people never managed to become friends with a whole group of lesbian bikers.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:56 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betticus View Post
I keed, I keed...

I think that what you are trying to communicate on that matter is that, and this is my interpretation so may be in error.. With the way our societies enforce and teach to our youth traditional feminine and masculine gender roles the entirety of our population is basically conditioned to that mode of belief.

So, with a population brainwashed from early youth and having that brainwashing reinforced through their lives the concept of a Fem Dom is difficult for them to understand as it conflicts with their lifelong conditioning. Female and dominant just don't go together, logically one can grasp the concept but on deeper levels it just seems not right. A male dominant however matches the traditional conditioning and is more easily accepted without any lingering sense of wrongness.

I suppose that in a way for a lot of people a female dom for them just doesn't seem quite real.

I can tell you right now those people never managed to become friends with a whole group of lesbian bikers.
I don't want to create a stereotype in an attempt to defy a stereotype. Comfort in one's own skin, physical or mental, is hard to come by and I think is what's required to get an internal happiness and "rightness" going that makes any lifestyle or philosophy look like it's working for you.

For me it's the people that are comfortable with themselves and forgiving of those who don't particularly "get" them. Universal acceptance or even niche acceptance is a bit of a fool's game, out of your control.

Becoming an individual that doesn't cleave to some sort of social norm usually has to go through the stages of grief. You can catch people in denial, anger, depression, bargaining...acceptance.

Since I value acceptance, that's why my sun shower model works for me. It's just a beautiful confluence of events that stops me in my tracks and makes me look.

But I see how people really also value the different steps, and even trying to gain universal acceptance, as beautiful things.

Dominant women for me get the sort of admiration I might give to a guy who decides to be an OB/GYN nurse. They made a choice that carried with it a lot of social flak they could have otherwise avoided because they were passionate about something and willing to pay the price.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:56 AM   #36
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Meh, I'm only halfway dealing with externals here. I don't want to be admired as someone doing something iconoclastic, I want to be completely NON iconoclastic and NON controversial, and quite normal. The fact that I am not, says something is seriously broken in the way men and women do men and women. I'd like to be among 20 percent in the room, not 2, then I'll feel like something is not super fucked up. I don't feel like I'm making a passionate choice or doing something politicized, it's simply that your whole existence as yourself has been politicized without your consent.

I'm talking about the dialogue you have to decide if you are "a dominant"

when you have girlparts, you have absolutely no idea what that entails.

OK, it's partly "not submissive" - and you've got everything from romance novels to vampire kitsch explaining to you that your sexual thrills are supposed to be passive ones, waiting to be selected and swept away. If that's not lighting your fire, you're already on the margin. There's already "something wrong with me."

Then let's assume you find BDSM. I mean it's got something to do with all these narratives in the sexist submissive dude playbook, so you need to decide how much of a stereotypical Bitch Goddess you are or you ain't.

So ok, you identify what you don't like and you're like "Not that." There's still absolutely no sense of what you're supposed to do then. More often than not, you wind up focusing on the parts of that narrative that DO actually appeal to you and looking for people who have the same fetishes.

At no point do you really have an internal psychological map for power in relationships. You have all these dysfunctional masquerades to compare yourself to and adopt or reject. Power is never "default" to the extent where I felt I could just be like "ok, I want it in sex only " or "I want it to extend outside the bedroom" and know that this would just happen for me.

In terms of the SM community, it's assumed that to have girlparts is to be communally available, and waiting to be swept up and surrender. "Dominant" is the only surefire way to TRY and dissuade this assumption, or at least cool it the fuck off for five minutes. It's still roaring away right outside the door, "Dominant" is like barricading yourself with furniture. You don't even have time to analyze what furniture you're using and why.
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Last edited by Netzach : 12-24-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:05 PM   #37
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So many people parse "Dominating" as "penetrating." Since women have innies not outies, they can't penetrate and therefore, can't actually be dominant.

In their world, the function of girlparts is to be a receptacle for boypart spunk.If a woman wants sexual satisfaction, and she wants it via penetration, she has given up her dominance.

Because men consider that they hold the monopoly on using sex for dominance-- the corresponding role for a woman is to withhold sex for dominance, and she is expected to be an ice queen. I mean, really how much actual physical pleasure do you think a woman gets bonking a chunk of plastic against her pubic bone so some dude can oh woe suffer through getting pegged?

But that;s starting to seem to me like old ideas being supplanted with new ones. I think, anyway.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
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"Dominant" is like barricading yourself with furniture. You don't even have time to analyze what furniture you're using and why.
Agreed. Of course, I dislike limiting labels as I see them as a barrier to intimacy and truly mind blowing sex, where there is no longer any control and you just are.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:14 PM   #39
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:38 AM   #40
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This past year I've gone through many changes, physically and mentally. My preception on how I see life and people has changed in a sense that I understand people better, I am a better judge of character, I've learned to know my self worth and took time to find out who I am. And, within that time, I thought I wasn't a Submissive anymore. But, when I have sex, I end up screaming "Daddy, fuck your worthless whore" because it is automatic. I end up doing things that my submissive side does. When something becomes a part of your life, certain parts of it will remain with you forever. We change, we grow, we live, we love, but even through change, parts of us remain the same.

As many have said, don't throw the whips and chains away just yet. I certainly haven't throw away my submissive side. Although, how I am as a submissive has changed into a new submissive. Catch my drift?

I suck at explaining things so bare with me. Lol.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:05 AM   #41
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This is a cool and fascinating thread.

Back in the days of record stores, they used to sort artists by genre. As a Ray Charles fan, I used to find him in various places from soul to jazz to blues, and even country. He was just an artist doing his thing, and he left it to others to apply the labels to what he did.

Here's to artists doling their thing, labels be damned.

J
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:57 PM   #42
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Quote:
But, when I have sex, I end up screaming "Daddy, fuck your worthless whore" because it is automatic.
How do your partners react to that? Inquiring minds want to know
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