A question on writing
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Boxlicker101
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No, as long as it is obvious. And, don't always use "said" when there are so many other words that will work as well or better. Such as: replied, murmured, blurted, announced, urged, queried, etc etc.
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HandsInTheDark
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"Yeah," she said. "I'm big and mean. I'm terrifying. I have a riding crop in my bedroom. So behave."
"Would that be the crop your boyfriend uses on you?"
"Shut up. I'm terrifying."
He came out of the kitchen, smiling. "Um... yeah, sure," he chuckled. "All, what, five feet four of you? And you're maybe one fifteen soaking wet?"
"One thirteen! I am so getting my crop now!"
"Was the one thirteen before or after that huge burger?"
"You- you!..."
"Yeah, girl," he said, smiling. "Me. But enough about me. Can I borrow your car or not?"
"No!"
---
if it's just two people talking I'll leave quotes unattributed until someone does an action worth describing.
"Would that be the crop your boyfriend uses on you?"
"Shut up. I'm terrifying."
He came out of the kitchen, smiling. "Um... yeah, sure," he chuckled. "All, what, five feet four of you? And you're maybe one fifteen soaking wet?"
"One thirteen! I am so getting my crop now!"
"Was the one thirteen before or after that huge burger?"
"You- you!..."
"Yeah, girl," he said, smiling. "Me. But enough about me. Can I borrow your car or not?"
"No!"
---
if it's just two people talking I'll leave quotes unattributed until someone does an action worth describing.
Serafina1210
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I read somewhere that tags like "he said" and "she said" are practically invisible to most readers (though they bother a lot of writers). Variations like "he murmured," "she chortled" will make them more conspicuous rather than less. Speech tags can easily be omitted in a back-and-forth between two characters:
You can also signal the speaker indirectly by mixing speech with descriptions of action, posture, etc.:
You can also signal the speaker indirectly by mixing speech with descriptions of action, posture, etc.:
Boxlicker101
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They are invisible but, when the one word keeps being repeated, it becomes annoying. Omit any tags unless they advance the story or you need them to clarify who of a group of people is speaking.
Are you familiar with the poem about Barbara Fritchie? "Said" is repeated, but to good affect.
NotWise
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I may have read the same thing. 'said' and 'answered' are the most common tags and they seem to be invisible to readers.
You have a chance to enhance the description by using other tags, but that has to be balanced against the possibility that you're jolting your reader out of the story by using odd tags.
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PennLady
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It's not necessary when the speaker is obvious, no.
I had an editor who hated dialogue attribution tags, especially in a conversation with only two people. So I got out of the habit.
I find it's handy to use them to establish your speakers and the order of the conversation and then check back in every so often with some kind of identifier to help keep everything on track and make sure the reader can keep it in order. I'll use descriptive tags like "she frowned" or "he glanced back" or something like that -- not a dialogue tag, but something that lets the reader know who spoke.
This is from one of my stories.
Weird Harold
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Leaving the dialogue tag off when the speaker is obvious is very common and reasonably proper. As long as the reader can follow the conversation (or get no more confused than the characters) the way dialogue is identified is largely a matter of style.
My personal preference is to identify the speakers within the dialogue:
Like many others have said here, I prefer to avoid the identifiers as much as possible during a 2-person conversation. However, when I do need them, I probably use "said" about 90 percent of the time. Using words like "chortled" or "stammered" or "yelled" can make it sound like you're trying too hard if you are using a different word each time. Just keep it simple and only use those more descriptive qualifiers when they truly matter. Just my opinion.
SamScribble
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dlsloan;79326216Using words like "chortled" or "stammered" or "yelled" can make it sound like you're trying too hard if you are using a different word each time. Just keep it simple and only use those more descriptive qualifiers when they truly matter. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE said:An opinion with which I wholeheartedly agree.
oggbashan
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I think it doesn't really matter that much unless you overthink it.
As Boxlicker101 and NotWise posted above:
When we read dialogue we don't really notice 'he said', 'she said'. If they are needed to identify the interchange between the speakers our eyes/brain skip them with no problem. If they aren't needed they can become annoying.
Deliberately varying the tags can be more irritating that simple 'said'.
As Boxlicker101 and NotWise posted above:
When we read dialogue we don't really notice 'he said', 'she said'. If they are needed to identify the interchange between the speakers our eyes/brain skip them with no problem. If they aren't needed they can become annoying.
Deliberately varying the tags can be more irritating that simple 'said'.
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HandsInTheDark
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Well, this thread is proof that two of a trade never agree. If I saw said being used on each line of an exchange, I'd take it as a clue that the speakers were talking past each other.
"Blue, because it will set off her eyes," Susan said.
"Green, because it will contrast her hair," Jill said.
"Purple. Yes. Purple. It will match the shorts and pull things together," Susan said.
They aren't reacting to each other, they're just declaiming, and using said over and over drives that home.
But I'm pretty certain that subtle clues like that are very important to some folk here and completely uninteresting to others, and the same with readers. In erotica, applying that sort of polish to style is either gilding the lily (or in the case of erotica, maybe gilding the pig), or the essential work that makes a warm piece hot.
"Blue, because it will set off her eyes," Susan said.
"Green, because it will contrast her hair," Jill said.
"Purple. Yes. Purple. It will match the shorts and pull things together," Susan said.
They aren't reacting to each other, they're just declaiming, and using said over and over drives that home.
But I'm pretty certain that subtle clues like that are very important to some folk here and completely uninteresting to others, and the same with readers. In erotica, applying that sort of polish to style is either gilding the lily (or in the case of erotica, maybe gilding the pig), or the essential work that makes a warm piece hot.
49greg
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I had a story some time ago with a long string of dialog. I thought it was perfectly obvious who said what. I even tossed in a few redundant 'he replied', 'she asked' tags. But a Mr. Anon took exception and blasted me via email and open comment.
Since then I am sometimes guilty of dumbing down and putting in more 'he said' type tags than I really need.
When I do use them I like to break them up with 'she answered', 'he whispered' to keep the 'he said' from getting monotonous - Even though one of Elmore Leonard's ten rules of writing is to never use anything other than 'said'.
"3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But said is far less intrusive than grumbled, gasped, cautioned, lied. I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated," and had to stop reading to get the dictionary."
Since then I am sometimes guilty of dumbing down and putting in more 'he said' type tags than I really need.
When I do use them I like to break them up with 'she answered', 'he whispered' to keep the 'he said' from getting monotonous - Even though one of Elmore Leonard's ten rules of writing is to never use anything other than 'said'.
"3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But said is far less intrusive than grumbled, gasped, cautioned, lied. I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated," and had to stop reading to get the dictionary."
Bramblethorn
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Yep. Most of the time when I see an author using fancy speech tags, it's to convey information that should already have been imparted by the dialogue.
"Stop! Come back!" she commanded.
"I haven't had a happy day since you left," she lamented.
etc. etc.
Unless I'm writing something unusual where the tone is at odd with what the words should suggest, I think it's better to concentrate on strengthening the dialogue so it conveys that tone.
But I do love this one:
"Shut up," he explained.
MayorReynolds
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As others have mentioned, no one really notices "said" so it's not a redundancy. Most of us have been reading for a long time and are used to it.
I will notice if it is written in a manner I am not used to. For instance, the Sherlock Holmes stories use "said he" a lot. I'm used to seeing "said" precede a proper noun (said Concord, said Elvira) but "said he" is new to me, so it stands out.
Dialogue tags also stand out if they use verbs in place of "said," i.e. "he trembled," "she exploded," "he cried." These can be useful for destroying adverbs. Instead of "she angrily said," "she snapped" gets the point across fine.
It's also possible to eliminate every dialogue tag except "he/she said," "he/she asked," and "he/she replied" if the character and situation are defined enough that we can understood their emotional response. She doesn't have to "snap" if we already know she is angry; she can just "say" it.
I will notice if it is written in a manner I am not used to. For instance, the Sherlock Holmes stories use "said he" a lot. I'm used to seeing "said" precede a proper noun (said Concord, said Elvira) but "said he" is new to me, so it stands out.
Dialogue tags also stand out if they use verbs in place of "said," i.e. "he trembled," "she exploded," "he cried." These can be useful for destroying adverbs. Instead of "she angrily said," "she snapped" gets the point across fine.
It's also possible to eliminate every dialogue tag except "he/she said," "he/she asked," and "he/she replied" if the character and situation are defined enough that we can understood their emotional response. She doesn't have to "snap" if we already know she is angry; she can just "say" it.
I try to use either said, asked or replied or nothing if it is clear who's speaking. And yes I'm put off when it's obvious that the writer went out of his or her way to find a "big" word when something simpler would have been more appropriate .
Athalia
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That's a good rule of thumb. They are to be used sparingly, as markers to keep the reader clear on who's speaking.
As for variations on "said," they are to be used even more sparingly, lest you start sounding like "Tom Swifties" (Google it if you don't know what those are.) They are effective only to the extent that you don't overuse them. They can be invaluable if used properly:
"Get out of here!" he snarled.
or
"You're nothing but a liar!" shouted a lady from the back of the room.
A few of those can go a long, long way.
I've realized how inadequate my high school grammar is when it comes to writing. Am doing some online exercises which is helped, even my spelling is up a notch or two.
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BuckyDuckman
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I get annoyed during a long back and forth if the writer doesn't remind me who's talking. I know it's my ADD kicking in. I'll drift away for just a moment and then need to back up to remind myself who's saying what.
1) If the characters have very distinctive voices, you can get away with using fewer He said/She said. I'm not suggesting dialect, though that count, as much as little clues.
2) I'll toss in little bit of business that helps identifies the characters.
For me, the challenge is when I'm writing in third person and two characters of the same gender are talking, because then it's ALL "She said." It forces one to find other ways to identify the speaker.
1) If the characters have very distinctive voices, you can get away with using fewer He said/She said. I'm not suggesting dialect, though that count, as much as little clues.
2) I'll toss in little bit of business that helps identifies the characters.
For me, the challenge is when I'm writing in third person and two characters of the same gender are talking, because then it's ALL "She said." It forces one to find other ways to identify the speaker.
ElectricBlue
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Agree this.
I generally drop the name of each character in at least every second paragraph somewhere, as a break from the "he said, she said" - even when there's only two characters talking - unless it's totally obvious who is speaking. The same technique also works as a break from "he did this, she did that" in descriptive paragraphs with no dialogue.
I generally drop the name of each character in at least every second paragraph somewhere, as a break from the "he said, she said" - even when there's only two characters talking - unless it's totally obvious who is speaking. The same technique also works as a break from "he did this, she did that" in descriptive paragraphs with no dialogue.
Zeb_Carter
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I write a lot of dialog and find myself ping-ponging back and forth between characters often. Now I know who is talking and when, but I realize that my readers might not and I find I have to go back and drop in little indicators to let them know.
Mostly, things like, Sarah said, or Sarah glared at me for that statement, etc.
A lot of my dialog is short, staccato sentences that fill up a page quickly. Sometimes the next line interrupts the prior line and after a about eight or ten lines the reader might need to be reminded who is currently talking.
Mostly, things like, Sarah said, or Sarah glared at me for that statement, etc.
A lot of my dialog is short, staccato sentences that fill up a page quickly. Sometimes the next line interrupts the prior line and after a about eight or ten lines the reader might need to be reminded who is currently talking.
