Better to write from a female or male's perspective?

^ ^ ^ Always makes me laugh

Megamuffin said:

^ ^ ^ Always makes me laugh

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I am quite funny. People laugh at me all the time.

Tossing in my pennies, for what it is worth, to the original question: Who are you writing the story for? Also, have you started writing it, and what pov did you choose?

If you are writing the story for the audience, then I don't suppose it matters which POV you write it from--there will always be someone interested in it. Yes, with very little information, the MIL's pov could be interesting, but that depends largely on her relationship with her daughter. If they are close, that lends well to conflict and drama. If they aren't, then perhaps it would be more sexual than literary. Same goes with the daughter's pov. The man, though, in my opinion, is in the prime position to experience the most conflict through his attraction of both women, how he feels about it, his guilt if any, the comparisons between the two's style, technique, etc etc. I'm curious as to what you chose.

Honestly, and I'm starting to think I might be in the minority on this one, I prefer reading stories from a male point of view (as a female reader). Even with 'strong' and 'empowered' women telling the tale who inevitably make a choice to create conflict, only to rescind it later as a resolution, I find it annoying. Perhaps the problem is there very few times when the female lead is fallible; it is a lot easier to relate to faults, than to perfection. When reading what a man might think, how he might feel or act, for me at least it is a form of voyeurism, peeking into the mysteries of a gender I'm not familiar with. Yes, men can convincingly write from a female perspective with little research or what not, but there are many who can't. Then you end up with a man writing about an unrealistic, barbie of a woman with her 34FF tits, dripping wet cunt who loves cum and wants sex at any given point during the day, anyway she can get it, from anyone who will give it to her. In reality, I believe as a whole women are indifferent about sex, unless they are in the mood but the mood doesn't linger as often as it does with men.

My first finished book was from the pov of a man; honestly, it was a snarky middle finger to the cliche perfection of vampirism always having a strong male character to rescue the weak female. I've toyed with almost all of the povs--I find that trying to immerse yourself in a character of a different gender, species, etc is quite a bit of a challenge but definitely eye opening. Hell, I even wrote a story once from the pov of a coffee pot. But I think the difference is, I write these stories for myself. I never have any intention of anyone reading them, though I've started to on occasion publish them just to see what people think out of my own curiosity.

And as for the sci-fi banter; I lost my train of thought on this reply, but I did want to point out that there is a difference between sci-fi and fantasy. Sci-fi as a genre expands around a plot that could be reasonably argued from a scientific basis--there is no magic in sci-fi (though yes, the argument could be made that magic is just science we don't understand yet, blah blah blah). I'm working through a series of lectures on it currently, and one thing has stood out prominently in mind mind that someone said on the subject: science fiction takes place on a planet, fantasy takes place in a world. The lecturer provided the following example to support his case: The Hobbit vs. Dune. Middle Earth is a carefully constructed world, we do not know where it is, we can't point to it in the sky, but the adventure takes place in it. The characters live within it, the world, though carefully mapped out, doesn't impose restrictions on their abilities.
Dune, though we also cannot point to in the sky, is a planet that the adventure takes place on. There are laws and restrictions imposed by the planet, it affects the characters capabilities and almost exists as an constant, indifferent entity that persists no matter their struggle.

Just food for thought

(I thought I'd answered this before, but apparently not. Maybe it was on another thread.)

I recommend that you write it from one character's point of view. Then re-write it from another character's point of view. Then let the sit a while.

When you re-read them, it should be obvious to you which one works better as a story.

But I strongly suggest that you not mix the two POVs in the same story. That usually ends up confusing the reader.

Athalia said:

But I strongly suggest that you not mix the two POVs in the same story. That usually ends up confusing the reader.

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This "strongly suggest" will pull up a ton of "poor advice" comments, and I shall be first - it's bollocks .

Written coherently, stories can and do present multiple point of views, and readers are perfectly able to understand what's going on. But I won't argue the case directly, I'll repeat here the final paragraph of a comment I received to one of my stories (that clearly and without confusion alternated the point of view between two protagonists):

I've always been partial to first person narration for conveying the intimate details of a character's inner life. But this story wonderfully shows how third person narration can be used to convey the inner activity of two characters, even during the intricate steps of their dance. We see the evening not as we would see it in real life---where we know our own feelings but can only guess at our partner's---but privy to both sides, able to see the uncertainty and hopefulness and playfulness and arousal on both sides as flirtation turns to courtship and courtship turns to foreplay. It's two intimate stories, really, interwoven at every scene. A tour-de-force of patient, loving, doubly imagined detail.

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electricblue66 said:

This "strongly suggest" will pull up a ton of "poor advice" comments, and I shall be first - it's bollocks .

Written coherently, stories can and do present multiple point of views, and readers are perfectly able to understand what's going on. But I won't argue the case directly, I'll repeat here the final paragraph of a comment I received to one of my stories (that clearly and without confusion alternated the point of view between two protagonists):

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As EB has stated. You can have multiple points of view in a story. I've done so and had many readers compliment me on it. Just make sure it's clear who's speaking as I've seen many other writer's do it and I'm like, "WTF?" Not that I'm a fool but that they just changed point of view midway through a conversation. Eliminate those situations, you'll be fine.

I can be a fan of multiple viewpoints. Ellis did this masterfully in Rules of Attraction.

electricblue66 said:

This "strongly suggest" will pull up a ton of "poor advice" comments, and I shall be first - it's bollocks .

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Well, I concede that that my suggestion might have been a bit too strong. Still, I would point out that nosebone, electricblue, and LightningSeed have all had quite a bit of experience with this sort of writing, and I do not doubt their ability to pull it off.

But I assumed that the poser of the question was a neophyte, because this is the sort of question that neophytes typically ask. And neophytes typically have more problems with clarity of perspective than more accomplished authors do.

(I'm sorry that I've been so tardy in my comments, but I've been traveling for the last couple of weeks and was unable to indulge myself in wasting time on the Internet ... if I had access to it at all.)

Athalia said:

But I assumed that the poser of the question was a neophyte, because this is the sort of question that neophytes typically ask. And neophytes typically have more problems with clarity of perspective than more accomplished authors do.

(I'm sorry that I've been so tardy in my comments, but I've been traveling for the last couple of weeks and was unable to indulge myself in wasting time on the Internet ... if I had access to it at all.)

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Fair comment - it was a while before I had the confidence to take on shifting viewpoints. My first stories were all first person pov, then I gave simple third person narrator a go, then said, what the hell, I can do this multiple viewpoint stuff.

Now I tend to write what I call close third person (is that even a term? I don't know) where the narrator gets in nearly as close as first person, but has the authorial latitude to wander about a bit. It still takes discipline and clear sign-posting to indicate who you're sidling up to, though.

Kojak01 said:

Whatever fits the story best.

I still think that men can't really write a woman's perspective but that has been discussed over and over in this forum.

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I see this stated often enough here, and it always makes me laugh. Why is it not a belief that one gender cannot really write another gender’s prespective? Female writers apparently can convey a male perspective, but those lug-headed men are just not up the the task.

I write from the perspective of men, women, and trans characters. I also use omniscient narrators that are not characters or gendered at all. My highest rated story here switched back and forth between the male and female POV. I have had many readers ask about my gender as they can’t tell by the fictional words I write (a much more reasonable approach than an unsupported ‘I just know’) and other authors and readers with whom I have communicated extensively thought they knew, and have been wrong.

Most writers here use aliases, so the reader cannot be sure what gender the writer identifies with. So how would anyone else know whether they can or cannot write as another gender not their own?
Perhaps it is with that special ability that some people think they have to be able to ‘tell’ anyone else’s race by their name or voice on the phone.

electricblue66 said:

Now I tend to write what I call close third person (is that even a term? I don't know) where the narrator gets in nearly as close as first person, but has the authorial latitude to wander about a bit. It still takes discipline and clear sign-posting to indicate who you're sidling up to, though.

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I think what you’re describing there, EB, would be what is usually called a ‘limited-omniscient third person narrator.’ Meaning the narrator is capable of knowing and seeing things beyond a strict first person, but generally sticks to what is going on with or in the head of a single character.

electricblue66 said:

This "strongly suggest" will pull up a ton of "poor advice" comments, and I shall be first - it's bollocks .

Written coherently, stories can and do present multiple point of views, and readers are perfectly able to understand what's going on. But I won't argue the case directly, I'll repeat here the final paragraph of a comment I received to one of my stories (that clearly and without confusion alternated the point of view between two protagonists):

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I think writing from multiple points of view, if handled with clarity and restraint, can work really well in erotic fiction, precisely because it so often involves a very intimate interaction between two people, and the contrast of their perspectives can add drama and interest.

SimonDoom said:

I think writing from multiple points of view, if handled with clarity and restraint, can work really well in erotic fiction, precisely because it so often involves a very intimate interaction between two people, and the contrast of their perspectives can add drama and interest.

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Agreed.

Kethandra said:

I think what you’re describing there, EB, would be what is usually called a ‘limited-omniscient third person narrator.’ Meaning the narrator is capable of knowing and seeing things beyond a strict first person, but generally sticks to what is going on with or in the head of a single character.

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Yes, that's the technical term, ta. I have several stories where I tell the tale from one character's point of view, and then from the other's, with clearly delineated shifts.

I asked a similar question some time ago.

After having thought about it and experimented somewhat over the years, I can say this much: doing multiple viewpoints won't confuse or annoy anyone as long as it is made OBVIOUS (I mean like, doing something like [CHARACTER NAME] where you do it), and as long as the change happens at a natural place. I wouldn't switch POV in the middle of a scene unless it was absolutely necessary, and even then I'd try and make it happen somewhere where there was a natural break.

Multiple POV can give you the advantage of inducing emotion in the reader when you're showing how the thoughts of the different characters don't match up (e.g. the frustrated hope when two characters are into each other but one or both think otherwise)...but at the expense of mystery. There's less of that feeling of suspense of 'how is X going to react to what Y just did/said?', because the reader has more of an idea of how X's brain works. Horses for courses, I suppose. What do you want your readers to feel?

Going from first person to third person can be difficult to do, especially if the story (or previous chapters of the story) had been all one or the other. For example, one of my fave scifi authors did a series of books all written in first person. He then did a different (but related) series all done in third person...and then did a crossover series where the two meet. The crossover series had the POV bouncing back and forth between first and third every other chapter. I was expecting one or the other, and it felt really jarring. It took me maybe a quarter of the book to get used to it. After that it was fine, but I was a longstanding fan of the author so I persevered - to newbies it might have been too off-putting. If you're gonna do something like that, there had better be a bloody good reason for it that goes beyond laziness.

As for writing a first-person female POV when you're a bloke...yeah, been doing a lot of that lately. Sometimes I do feel somewhat in the dark about certain aspects and maybe unsure of how a woman would think in a certain scenario (I'm sure we all wish we had Mel Gibson's powers in What Women Want), but I don't seem to be too far off the mark. I've read stories that I literally just assumed the author was one gender, and was surprised to find out the other. I think as long as you do your homework, it can be done.

And I second what some people here have said about how to choose a character for POV: pick the most interesting one. Pick the one with the most to experience and the most to think about. I would probably say to pick the one who's going to have the most emotional ride if you're writing something with a level of romance to it. If it's stroke it's considerably less important.

exiled_oblivion said:

I asked a similar question some time ago.

After having thought about it and experimented somewhat over the years, I can say this much: doing multiple viewpoints won't confuse or annoy anyone as long as it is made OBVIOUS (I mean like, doing something like [CHARACTER NAME] where you do it), and as long as the change happens at a natural place. I wouldn't switch POV in the middle of a scene unless it was absolutely necessary, and even then I'd try and make it happen somewhere where there was a natural break.

Multiple POV can give you the advantage of inducing emotion in the reader when you're showing how the thoughts of the different characters don't match up (e.g. the frustrated hope when two characters are into each other but one or both think otherwise)...but at the expense of mystery. There's less of that feeling of suspense of 'how is X going to react to what Y just did/said?', because the reader has more of an idea of how X's brain works. Horses for courses, I suppose. What do you want your readers to feel?

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Thanks for posting this as I was going to say something similar yesterday but I couldn't write it as well.

I write first person because I like the intimacy that comes from first person and, as you said, the mystery. But I've got one story in my short writing career where I found I needed to change the POV for a scene and I've got a couple of stories in development where the POV switches back-and-forth between two characters. Some stories require something beyond a single POV.

exiled_oblivion said:

And I second what some people here have said about how to choose a character for POV: pick the most interesting one.

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I usually do the opposite. My POV characters are usually male good-guy characters who don't have a lot of personality. It's the female character who is interesting and it's his trying to understand her that drives most of the plot.

8letters said:

I usually do the opposite. My POV characters are usually male good-guy characters who don't have a lot of personality. It's the female character who is interesting and it's his trying to understand her that drives most of the plot.

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Interesting point. I have some stories like this, but other stories told from the female character's point of view. My only brother-sister incest story fits this description. The brother is the more passive party, and the story follows his growing realization that his sister has a plan for them both. This can work, too, probably for a male reader in particular, who can identify with a brother who learns something erotic and arousing about his sister.

It might be more accurate to say that the POV should lie not with the more interesting party but with the party that learns the most during the story, or who goes through an internal change. That change might be no more than learning something surprising about the partner. But even that formula isn't a hard and fast rule.

I'm actually a fan of Third person writing, that way you can jump to whatever perspective you want and tell everyone's personal conflict and story.

Cross post from WTF 3



Meh, funny enough to post twice.

A good writer needs to create and inhabit all manner of characters, even in porn or erotica. A great understanding of women is requisite. I've read stories here where a man writes from a woman's viewpoint and you have to wonder if he ever even met a woman before, rather than informing his work merely by looking at pictures of boobs and pussy.

HBergeron said:

A great understanding of women is requisite.

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In Gay Male, not so much.

KeithD said:

In Gay Male, not so much.

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Ih a thread about writing from a woman's or a man's perspective, and discussing the woman's perspective, I seriously doubt said 'woman' would be a gay male.

HBergeron said:

Ih a thread about writing from a woman's or a man's perspective, and discussing the woman's perspective, I seriously doubt said 'woman' would be a gay male.

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I'm willing to bet that most of the Gay Male stories written to this site have been written from a woman author's perspective (by women).

Your generalization was sweeping enough for me to notice. If you want to claim you had writing just hetero stories firmly in mind, well OK then.