The economics of academia.

Ishmael

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I'm starting this thread to use as a referral. As the subject has come up more than once in the past, and once again today, I figure I'll just type it once more and then use it as a link in the future.

A tenured research professor makes a salary of approx. $130,000/yr. This if he/she are in the hard sciences or engineering fields. This is an average across ALL US universities/colleges. Should the professor be at a major institution with a reputation for research in their field double that salary............minimum. And should they be a department chair or head, add 75% more. Further, at major institutions they, the chairs/heads will have on campus housing........gratis. No rent/mortgage, no utilities. And should they use their quarters for 'official' entertaining, they get to write that off on the expense account. Imagine being able to throw a party and have someone else pay for it! Being tenured they will be paid for life or until forced retirement based on the particular institutions policies. Damn near nothing short of the commission of capital murder can cause them to lose their jobs. And the retirements are generous, so much so that the government retirement benefits look like a pittance. And then there is all the expensed travel, a great deal international, to the meetings, symposiums, award ceremonies, etc. Oh, and throw in the 30day/yr. vacations and paid sabbaticals as well.

Of course all of this requires that the researcher bring grant monies into the institution. The grants may be issued to the researcher but the check is made out to the institution. The institution immediately grabs at east 30% (+/-) off the top. After all it is their real estate, equipment, secretaries, lawyers, accountants, etc. that are supporting all this research. So all of the benefits listed in the previous paragraph are contingent on the researcher bringing in the BIG grants. The remaining 70% (+/-) is used by the department to;

1. Do the research.

2. Grow the department.

Growing the department is very important in that the bigger the department, the more, and the bigger, the grants they can apply for.

A tenured research professor who is also a dept. chair/head at a major institution with a reputation in the field will be making $1,000,000 (+/-) in salary, benefits, and perks. While not quite in the class of a Zuckerberg or a Gates, they aren't to worried about where their next meal is coming from.

Obviously that is just a thumbnail sketch that assumes the reader can extrapolate all of the underlying detail on their own. But the point is that academic research is BIG fucking money with BIG fucking rewards for the researcher that brings home the bacon.

Ishmael
 
Universities do not throw out tenure willynilly. Some associates will work for decades and never get it. The university fills the offices with associates. Cheap, easy to wave the tenure carrot in front of to get more pep in the step, and easy to get rid of when the need arises.

The average base salary of a tenured professor is just under 100,000 according to wiki. Still, even at 130,000, it is not like these people are living the big life. There are perks with the job and some of those perks can be quite sweet, but for the most part people teach because they want to teach. Not to get rich. Not for the vacations.

Research dollars make the professor a rock star professor. Get some dirtbag students to do the grunt work. Get a slighty higher class dirtbag student to write the papers. There could be patents and commercial opportunities. All of this depends on your field of study, ideas, and networking skills. Many times the universities are the losers. Where did Windows did its start?

Paid housing and parties? :) I did not see any of that. An exception, not the norm.

Anyhoo, we do not need an educated population! We need landscapers and burger flippers! Soon we will need wall builders.
 
I totally agree with pete. And it's outrageous the way they treat academics -as I read- with non- tenure jobs and low salaries. Same goes for teachers.

But the other thing is (as per Andree Giroux) unfortunately in this day and age, many universities, colleges or even schools have a market-based approach to teaching and aim to produce "highly skilled and competitive trained workforce".
Which is absolutely becessary, since competition is tough.
But they focus only on that, and they don't encourage independent creative thinking. In fact they even discourage it and encourage a conformist amd obedient (to the mainstream views) type of thinking. In extremis, some of them have become instruments of indoctrination.
 
It gets even better for the Professor who delivers...

;) ;)

He gets to use Grad students to teach his classes to keep his time free to chase grants (which increasingly seems to involve tailoring the data and facts to what the grantee wants to believe).
 
Every university comes with cool kid clubs. An associate might be really good at getting the job done but does not advance because the dean thinks he is a weenie. Associates are also vulnerable to changes at higher levels. The new boss might not promote in the same fashion as the old boss.

Blowjobs wasted.
 
Universities do not throw out tenure willynilly. Some associates will work for decades and never get it. The university fills the offices with associates. Cheap, easy to wave the tenure carrot in front of to get more pep in the step, and easy to get rid of when the need arises.

The average base salary of a tenured professor is just under 100,000 according to wiki. Still, even at 130,000, it is not like these people are living the big life. There are perks with the job and some of those perks can be quite sweet, but for the most part people teach because they want to teach. Not to get rich. Not for the vacations.

Research dollars make the professor a rock star professor. Get some dirtbag students to do the grunt work. Get a slighty higher class dirtbag student to write the papers. There could be patents and commercial opportunities. All of this depends on your field of study, ideas, and networking skills. Many times the universities are the losers. Where did Windows did its start?

Paid housing and parties? :) I did not see any of that. An exception, not the norm.

Anyhoo, we do not need an educated population! We need landscapers and burger flippers! Soon we will need wall builders.

I totally agree with pete. And it's outrageous the way they treat academics -as I read- with non- tenure jobs and low salaries. Same goes for teachers.

But the other thing is (as per Andree Giroux) unfortunately in this day and age, many universities, colleges or even schools have a market-based approach to teaching and aim to produce "highly skilled and competitive trained workforce".
Which is absolutely becessary, since competition is tough.
But they focus only on that, and they don't encourage independent creative thinking. In fact they even discourage it and encourage a conformist amd obedient (to the mainstream views) type of thinking. In extremis, some of them have become instruments of indoctrination.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fine.

There is nothing wrong with my numbers or the associated perks within the parameters I laid out.

In virtually ALL cases a 'research' professor will be paid, on average, a 30% premium over a 'teaching' professor. The research guy brings in the bacon. And yes, there are tons of associates, doctoral candidates (being coached), as well as other support staff that part of the 'worker bee' class.

Tenured professors in other disciplines, say the social sciences, are salaried at up to 50% less than their hard science/engineering counterparts at any level, research/teaching/assoc., etc. This is a direct reflection of where the big grant money is going.

Throwing out one example, Los Alamos NM has the second highest concentration of millionaires per capita in the US (12.4%). They are all employed by Los Alamos National Laboratory which is managed just like a University by a consortium formed by Bechtel Corp. and the Univ. of CA. And while Los Alamos, and the other national labs, are special cases, top researchers at major institutions will do just as well financially because if they're not they'll take themselves, and their grants, to another institution.

Ishmael
 
But, but, only the top tier climate frauds can afford gold-plated toilets. . .

What do these climate fraud apologists think that the climate fraud's "low paid" (well above median income) worker-bees aspire to be?

AmWay sells dreams, not soap.
 
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fine.

There is nothing wrong with my numbers or the associated perks within the parameters I laid out.

In virtually ALL cases a 'research' professor will be paid, on average, a 30% premium over a 'teaching' professor. The research guy brings in the bacon. And yes, there are tons of associates, doctoral candidates (being coached), as well as other support staff that part of the 'worker bee' class.

Tenured professors in other disciplines, say the social sciences, are salaried at up to 50% less than their hard science/engineering counterparts at any level, research/teaching/assoc., etc. This is a direct reflection of where the big grant money is going.

Throwing out one example, Los Alamos NM has the second highest concentration of millionaires per capita in the US (12.4%). They are all employed by Los Alamos National Laboratory which is managed just like a University by a consortium formed by Bechtel Corp. and the Univ. of CA. And while Los Alamos, and the other national labs, are special cases, top researchers at major institutions will do just as well financially because if they're not they'll take themselves, and their grants, to another institution.

Ishmael

Nothing wrong with those numbers except that they are cherry picked and exaggerated. Yes, there are professors out there that have a sweet deal. Yes, there are professors out there with patents, big cars, and hot wives. That is far, far from the norm. Most tenured professors are middle class and live in suburbia, not university supplied housing.

Los Alamos is not a university. Research? They do some of that. The US gov sends them money by the dump truck. Not the same as some professor at some average university making an average wage doing what the job requires.

I have a patent from my time at school. The university paid for it all the way through. There is no way I would have been able to pay for the lawyers and whatnots at the time. Research funding is not always about making some fucker rich. It exposes students to what is cutting edge in their field. Many of those same students find employment after graduation because of these opportunities. Those workers then put cash back into our economy.

Win. Win.
 
Even if every word is true I'm trying to figure out who really gives a shit...and why.
 
Even if every word is true I'm trying to figure out who really gives a shit...and why.

Ishmael has long been one of the staunchest advocates know-nothing anti-intellectualism faction here on Lit, second only perhaps to AJ.

Ishmael regularly finds one reason or another to demonize academia.
 
Even if every word is true I'm trying to figure out who really gives a shit...and why.

Sgt Spidey, Aa, and Frodo insist that government grant money is not lucrative enough to incentivize fudging the research numbers. Their evidence is that they know of no scientists with gold-plated toilets in their limousines. Only the filthy rich lie and cheat, because Romney.

I'm guessing you have a certain screen-stretching "graph"ic poster on iggy. You are now caught up. You're welcome.
 
This thread would be far more interesting if it had professors fucking cute coeds as at least a subplot.

But if it's really an ish long-troll faux fact backgrounder for use later....yes, the top players in the research game do make pretty good money...but, most of them, being academics, have values and integrity and a sense of pride in what they put their name on.

I only know two or three employed/industry funded researchers...one at harvard funded by bill & melinda gates foundation, and two at canadian universities, one funded by Exxon Mobil, the other by Motorola I think.

If Ish is trying to "prove" that academic bribery is rampant, good luck with that.

Academic sloth is probably the easier route to "ishproofs" in terms of fudged data.
 
Sgt Spidey, Aa, and Frodo insist that government grant money is not lucrative enough to incentivize fudging the research numbers. Their evidence is that they know of no scientists with gold-plated toilets in their limousines. Only the filthy rich lie and cheat, because Romney.

I'm guessing you have a certain screen-stretching "graph"ic poster on iggy. You are now caught up. You're welcome.

Thanks, noted. Still no shits given here.
 
This thread would be far more interesting if it had professors fucking cute coeds as at least a subplot.
national_lampoon_september_1975_spanking_cover_dan_rivera.jpg


it's really an ish long-troll faux fact backgrounder for use later....

Tis.

Excellent turn of phrase, Master Castor. "Ish long-troll faux fact backgrounder" should enter the lexicon of every Litster.
 
My Commercial Law prof was only about ten years older than his students, had long hair, big smile, fake british accent, cool house on campus, drove a Rover v8 and always had good pot, so he banged pretty much every single good looking chick on campus.

He was a great guy to go out drinking with...just to snag his rejects.
 
My Commercial Law prof was only about ten years older than his students, had long hair, big smile, fake british accent, cool house on campus, drove a Rover v8 and always had good pot, so he banged pretty much every single good looking chick on campus.

He was a great guy to go out drinking with...just to snag his rejects.

I didn't know you used to like girls! :p
Just kidding Lace...everyone knows you're the manliest Canuck on this board not named PorkWarrior
 
nothing like a good round of begging the question to start ones day.
 
This thread would be far more interesting if it had professors fucking cute coeds as at least a subplot.

But if it's really an ish long-troll faux fact backgrounder for use later....yes, the top players in the research game do make pretty good money...but, most of them, being academics, have values and integrity and a sense of pride in what they put their name on.

I only know two or three employed/industry funded researchers...one at harvard funded by bill & melinda gates foundation, and two at canadian universities, one funded by Exxon Mobil, the other by Motorola I think.

If Ish is trying to "prove" that academic bribery is rampant, good luck with that.

Academic sloth is probably the easier route to "ishproofs" in terms of fudged data.

Has nothing to do with bribery Lance. It has everything to do with prestige, power, access to power, and the fact that at some point so much money becomes involved that these departments take on every aspect of a corporation and begin to function for their own continued existence and compromises have to be made, usually in the veracity of the work product.

Ishmael
 
So, tell me, you two? After FIFTEEN YEARS of verbal volleyball - which of you actually IS the "alpha"?

Enquiring minds, etc?
 
This thread would be far more interesting if it had professors fucking cute coeds as at least a subplot.

But if it's really an ish long-troll faux fact backgrounder for use later....yes, the top players in the research game do make pretty good money...but, most of them, being academics, have values and integrity and a sense of pride in what they put their name on.

I only know two or three employed/industry funded researchers...one at harvard funded by bill & melinda gates foundation, and two at canadian universities, one funded by Exxon Mobil, the other by Motorola I think.

If Ish is trying to "prove" that academic bribery is rampant, good luck with that.

Academic sloth is probably the easier route to "ishproofs" in terms of fudged data.

It doesn't really matter whether there was malice aforethought or simply bluster to cover up lazy work when caught the result is the same.

I don't think you have to have to ascribe tremendous avarice to explain why anyone given the opportunity to sign their own time card would consider heading The Hours worked a bit.

My childhood best friend's father shared a prominent physics department. I like the guy he had every reason to be a little smug given that he earned his PhD in physics at the age of 21 while putting himself through school playing in a jazz Trio. When you talk politics with the guy though he's just a little bit to the left of Lenin. Is convinced that all the world's ills are sold in Academia. I think it's that hubris that comes through.
 
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