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Old 11-29-2017, 10:55 AM   #1
gotsnowgotslush
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Internet Rights Are Civil Rights

Internet Rights Are Civil Rights

Internet rights are civil rights,” said Jay Stanley, American Civil Liberties Union senior policy analyst. “Gutting net neutrality will have a devastating effect on free speech online. Without it, gateway corporations like Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T will have too much power to mess with the free flow of information.”

https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-comme...net-neutrality

The Federal Communications Commission chairman announced plans to repeal Obama-era regulations on Internet service providers.

(We know how the 2017 White House feels about Obama-era regulations.)

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...g-the-internet


NOVEMBER 29, 2017


FCC Chairman Ajit Pai has outlined his proposal to roll back the virtually all of the net neutrality rules put in by the previous administration, and he and his two fellow Republican commissioners outnumber the two Democratic, pro-net neutrality commissioners on the FCC. The commissioners vote on the proposal on Dec. 14.


https://www.cnet.com/news/majority-o...fcc-were-fake/
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:16 PM   #2
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I'm "on the cusp" on this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsnowgotslush View Post
Internet Rights Are Civil Rights

Internet rights are civil rights,” said Jay Stanley, American Civil Liberties Union senior policy analyst. “Gutting net neutrality will have a devastating effect on free speech online. Without it, gateway corporations like Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T will have too much power to mess with the free flow of information.”

https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-comme...net-neutrality

The Federal Communications Commission chairman announced plans to repeal Obama-era regulations on Internet service providers.

(We know how the 2017 White House feels about Obama-era regulations.)

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...g-the-internet


NOVEMBER 29, 2017


FCC Chairman Ajit Pai has outlined his proposal to roll back the virtually all of the net neutrality rules put in by the previous administration, and he and his two fellow Republican commissioners outnumber the two Democratic, pro-net neutrality commissioners on the FCC. The commissioners vote on the proposal on Dec. 14.


https://www.cnet.com/news/majority-o...fcc-were-fake/
Let me begin by noting I personally like net neutrality. Nonetheless...

The statement that "Internet rights are civil rights" is asinine.

First and most importantly, it cheapens real civil rights. I really don't think it benefits anyone to equate rights like life, liberty, equality before the law, and freedom of conscience, with people's ability to stream movies at a convenient bandwidth.

More prosaically, the claim that "Internet rights are civil rights" in this context is contrary to established law. The First Amendment applies only to government action. Private property owners can control the content of expression, even in quasi-public places like shopping malls. By the same logic, private owners of internet connectivity should be able to control the content using that private property, including the amount of bandwidth (speed) to allow it.

From a fairness point-of-view, ending net neutrality makes sense. Internet service providers risk billions of dollars establishing expansions to the `net. They bought, built, own, and maintain that hardware. Why should they not get to decide who gets how much bandwidth across it or get to charge more for the best speeds?

Unless...

Hasn't the Internet essentially become a vital public utility? Privately owned public utilities, such as electricity, gas, etc., are allowed certain benefits (monopolistic conditions, guaranteed minimum profits, etc.), but are subject to stricter regulation than other businesses. For example, up here in Wisconsin, the gas and electric companies cannot suspend service to someone during the cold winter months, even if they have not paid their bill.

Should we treat private internet service providers the same way? In other words, guarantee them certain benefits in exchange for strict regulation, such as net neutrality.

I honestly don't know what's the best solution. I'm on the cusp when it comes to this issue. I'd appreciate other people's informed opinions on it.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincepsCyberius View Post
Hasn't the Internet essentially become a vital public utility? Privately owned public utilities, such as electricity, gas, etc., are allowed certain benefits (monopolistic conditions, guaranteed minimum profits, etc.), but are subject to stricter regulation than other businesses. For example, up here in Wisconsin, the gas and electric companies cannot suspend service to someone during the cold winter months, even if they have not paid their bill.

Should we treat private internet service providers the same way? In other words, guarantee them certain benefits in exchange for strict regulation, such as net neutrality.
In 19th century USA cities, fire protection was often by private firms. If you didn't subscribe to that company, they ignored your fire. I own a couple of 'firemarks', plaques affixed to shop front walls to show their coverage. Mine are in Chinese from San Francicso's Chinatown, issued by my old employer Fireman's Fund Insurance to show their client firefighters where to bother.

I understand 19th century London had competing police forces. I dunno if they required subscriptions. But we get best service from cops we pay directly, eh? And if you can't buy a cop, get a rent-a-cop.

The USA Progressive movement of the late 1800 and onward focused on municipalizing private streetcar, water, gas, and other utility firms. This resulted on either publicly-owned utilities and transit systems, or closely regulated monopolies.

The question is, are electronic communications systems 'utilities' similar to piped-in power, water, and gas suppliers? Public streetcars and buses are certainly "communications systems," so their regulation or takeover has precedent. The next question is, are the Net giga-corps already too big and rich to succumb to gov't control? Facebook could buy a few Congresses, yah?
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsnowgotslush View Post
Internet Rights Are Civil Rights

Internet rights are civil rights,” said Jay Stanley, American Civil Liberties Union senior policy analyst. “Gutting net neutrality will have a devastating effect on free speech online. Without it, gateway corporations like Comcast, Verizon, and AT&T will have too much power to mess with the free flow of information.”

https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-comme...net-neutrality

The Federal Communications Commission chairman announced plans to repeal Obama-era regulations on Internet service providers.

(We know how the 2017 White House feels about Obama-era regulations.)

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...g-the-internet


NOVEMBER 29, 2017


FCC Chairman Ajit Pai has outlined his proposal to roll back the virtually all of the net neutrality rules put in by the previous administration, and he and his two fellow Republican commissioners outnumber the two Democratic, pro-net neutrality commissioners on the FCC. The commissioners vote on the proposal on Dec. 14.


https://www.cnet.com/news/majority-o...fcc-were-fake/
No there not and the ACLU is a terrorist group using civil rights to ruin our laws and freedoms!

Using the internet is a service and not some right and the internet is just fine without the Feds dicking it up like they did Obamacare and healthcare insurance!

Why can't you people research and not parrot what the media or left wing tells you ,the media hates the freedom the internet gives us to get the unfiltered news and not the medias DNC talking points!
Left wing lies and ideas die on the internet like they do in the real world !

10 Democrats are going to jail not one mention in the media just the same old Trump Russian lie from January !
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:42 AM   #5
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No there not and the ACLU is a terrorist group using civil rights to ruin our laws and freedoms!
Civil rights ARE your laws and freedoms. Bare your butt at a Thai shrine and you'll see how far your freedom of expression extends.

Quote:
Using the internet is a service and not some right...
Public safety protection, postal deliveries, and road upleep are all services, too. Would you rather they were subscription-based, like old fire companies I mentioned? Do you have a right to public safety and the postal service?

Lawmakers classify some communications companies as "common carriers". Net firms now qualify. They are NECESSARY to modern civilian life. Try getting your next job without accessing the Net at all. Have fun picking strawberries.

Quote:
...and the internet is just fine without the Feds dicking it up like they did Obamacare and healthcare insurance!
The 'net was CREATED by the Feds. The Web was created by a British wonk at a European (gov't-funded) physics lab. Don't be historically illiterate. And the Net ain't "just fine", as you might know if you followed non-alt.right news.
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:17 PM   #6
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FCC Just Killed Net Neutrality

gsgs comment-

It is no surprise, that it happened.

(Oh, dear, another vote fucked up, by bots. Are they looking for the arseholes that have stolen identities, and hijacked accounts ?)

Websites have already been given the undesirable label, and shoved off the main drag. (Left Wing Liberal Democrat's sites.)

Newspapers and news outlets are getting gobbled up by Right Wing billionaires.

/end gsgs comment


FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS Commission voted Thursday to dismantle its net neutrality regulations. But that won’t end the fight over rules that prohibit internet service providers from creating fast lanes for some content, while blocking or throttling others.


Most immediately, the activity will move to the courts, where the advocacy group Free Press, and probably others, will challenge the FCC’s decision. The most likely argument: that the commission’s decision violates federal laws barring agencies from crafting “arbitrary and capricious” regulations. After all, the FCC’s net neutrality rules were just passed in 2015. Activists and many members of Congress, including at least six Republicans, pushed for a delay in the vote, but apart from a brief delay due to a security issue, the vote occurred as planned.

The FCC's main argument for revoking the 2015 rules is that the regulations hurt investment in broadband infrastructure. But, as WIRED recently detailed, many broadband providers actually increased their investments, while those that cut back on spending told shareholders that the net neutrality rules didn't affect their plans.

https://www.wired.com/story/after-fc...urts-congress/
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:29 PM   #7
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Anonymous threatens cyber attack against FCC over net neutrality vote

Quote:
Other accounts online shared a video of a reported Anonymous broadcast called “Operation Free Net.” In it, a person claiming to be a member of the ha

cktivist group—disguised behind a Guy Fawkes mask—called for action against the FCC.

"Don't just sit there and let [the FCC] take away your internet freedom. Do you part and we promise to do ours. Anonymous will monitor FCC websites, social media and email addresses,” the person in the video said.

"We will block and restrict access to websites through DDoS attacks and target those responsible should the FCC choose to move forward with the removal of net neutrality," the video continued. “Fuck with our internet and suffer the consequences. This is your only warning."

On Wednesday, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel tweeted Wednesday that the internet service in the FCC building was down for a period of time. “I think we can call this some fierce irony: internet service is currently down at the FCC,” she wrote. “I think the ruckus is happening.”
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:59 PM   #8
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Snopes quoted-David Emery

(Please note, the repeal of net neutrality does not automatically mean users will start being charged separate fees for accessing different kinds of content; it means that ISPs will be able to charge such fees if they want to.)

In addition to being able to charge extra for certain kinds of content, ISPs will be free to block or limit access to content they deem objectionable, unimportant, or otherwise unworthy — pornography and gambling web sites, for example, and even certain kinds of political speech. Net neutrality advocates refer to this as “gatekeeping.”




According to FCC Chairman Pai, Internet service providers who plan to throttle, fast-lane, or block any apps or content will be required to disclose it.

(gsgs comment- Excuse me, while I laugh, bitterly. I have Comcast, and they do whatever they want to do.)


But apart from the oversight which now falls to the Federal Trade Commission, whose specific mandate is to protect consumers from “unfair or deceptive acts or practices” across the entire range of industries and businesses in the United States, the ISPs will be free to make (or remake) their own rules.

https://www.snopes.com/2017/12/14/fc...et-neutrality/
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Old 12-16-2017, 06:28 PM   #9
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According to Bitter Boy, the end of NN is great thing, because now nothing is stopping the WalMart of ISPs from opening shop along with Comcast and Verizon.

It's going to "encourage competition" and all us mere consumers will get access to cheapie rates for high speed service we couldn't have before.

Noted for the record.
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Old 12-16-2017, 06:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
According to Bitter Boy, the end of NN is great thing
Oh lookie Carnal is out spreading lies again.

Are you lying deliberately or are can you not read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
because now nothing is stopping the WalMart of ISPs from opening shop along with Comcast and Verizon.
It's going to "encourage competition" and all us mere consumers will get access to cheapie rates for high speed service we couldn't have before.
Only if you've not closed off your markets effectively setting up a monopoly/oligopoly.

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Noted for the record.
Your lies are noted for the record which is why you won't go grab a quote....because you can't.
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:10 PM   #11
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I'm not trolling through the GB. You know what you said. We had a discussion.

If I got it wrong, then please, illuminate your thoughts on NN.


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Oh lookie Carnal is out spreading lies again.

Are you lying deliberately or are can you not read?

Only if you've not closed off your markets effectively setting up a monopoly/oligopoly.

Your lies are noted for the record which is why you won't go grab a quote....because you can't.
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:53 PM   #12
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I'm not trolling through the GB. You know what you said. We had a discussion.

If I got it wrong, then please, illuminate your thoughts on NN.
Yea I do and yes we did and I said it then in a lot more words that obviously got you overstimulated so let me simplify it for you.



In some markets, for some people it's going to suck loosing NN.

In other markets, in other states/cities/counties/markets... it's going to be D-shiznit.

NN being good or bad depends on a whole lot of factors, like who you are, what your business is, what city/state you're located (and thus laws you live under) etc..... it's not a universal constant, black or white good or bad.



Personally it doesn't really matter to me either way because I stand to make a bunch of money off of it just like I will when the (D)'s come back and turn it back on because fuck (R)'s.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:40 PM   #13
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Noted, then. We'll come back and revisit this in a couple of months.

Right. We've already established you're a sociopath. You could care less what happens to anyone else on the planet except yourself. Being a selfish little shit, you ATTRIBUTE the same sociopathic, selfish motives to everyone else.


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Yea I do and yes we did and I said it then in a lot more words that obviously got you overstimulated so let me simplify it for you.



In some markets, for some people it's going to suck loosing NN.

In other markets, in other states/cities/counties/markets... it's going to be D-shiznit.

NN being good or bad depends on a whole lot of factors, like who you are, what your business is, what city/state you're located (and thus laws you live under) etc..... it's not a universal constant, black or white good or bad.



Personally it doesn't really matter to me either way because I stand to make a bunch of money off of it just like I will when the (D)'s come back and turn it back on because fuck (R)'s.
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:17 AM   #14
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Right. We've already established you're a sociopath.
based upon what?

Furthermore where did you go to medical school?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
You could care less what happens to anyone else on the planet except yourself.
That's not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnal_Flower View Post
Being a selfish little shit, you ATTRIBUTE the same sociopathic, selfish motives to everyone else.
What's selfish?

Aren't you selfish? Don't you go make money so you can do shit that you enjoy?

I'm not any different.
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Old 12-17-2017, 04:41 AM   #15
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According to Bitter Boy, the end of NN is great thing, because now nothing is stopping the WalMart of ISPs from opening shop along with Comcast and Verizon.
When corporations own gov't, it's called Fascism, according to Benito Mussolini, who invented the term. When communications firms effectively merge with gov't, this is what comes next.

In China, a Three-Digit Score Could Dictate Your Place in Society

"Under the national social credit system people will be penalized for the crime of spreading online rumors, among other offenses, and that those deemed 'seriously untrustworthy' can expect to receive substandard services."


Guess what happens when your every move is tracked by ubiquitous surveillance, and your every transaction and communication are recorded and evaluated by friendly corporations and their gov't puppets? Get in line, citizen. What, you're not wearing an official MAGA hat? Ten demerits, citizen scum!
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Old 12-17-2017, 01:54 PM   #16
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When corporations own gov't, it's called Fascism, according to Benito Mussolini, who invented the term. When communications firms effectively merge with gov't, this is what comes next.

In China, a Three-Digit Score Could Dictate Your Place in Society

"Under the national social credit system people will be penalized for the crime of spreading online rumors, among other offenses, and that those deemed 'seriously untrustworthy' can expect to receive substandard services."


Guess what happens when your every move is tracked by ubiquitous surveillance, and your every transaction and communication are recorded and evaluated by friendly corporations and their gov't puppets? Get in line, citizen. What, you're not wearing an official MAGA hat? Ten demerits, citizen scum!
Yet you want to give them more and more power to control an ever broader scope of every individuals life.

#leftyLogic
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