How to find your voice?

yukonnights said:

gordo, here's a couple of explanations from a search. As one article said; "Ask 5 authors to define 'voice', and you'll get 15 different answers

The term "voice" in fiction writing has two very different meanings:

A. (Author's Voice) is the author's style , the quality that makes his or her writing unique, and which conveys the author's attitude, personality, point of view and character. The author's tone, choice of words, choice of content, and even punctuation make up the authorial voice. The author's voice is usually fairly consistent, particularly in third person narratives. As a result, it is often possible to identify the author simply by reading a selection of his or her work.


B. (Character's Voice) is the characteristic speech and thought patterns of the narrator of a work of fiction. Because voice has so much to do with the reader's experience of a work of literature, it is one of the most important elements of a piece of writing.

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Thus the difficulty in quantifying it. Because those parts are really "me" it's difficult to step outside of "me" and recognize them.

My wife was reading the western I just posted and pointed at a section.

"This, this is what you're good at," she said. "This is what shows up in all your stories and this is where you should focus."

When it was pointed out I could see what she meant, but looking at it before it was just part of the overall story.

Thanks for doing that search BTW

yukonnights said:

That's interesting. When I first read the article, I was wondering how 'punctuation' would be much of an element in the 'author's voice'...never really considered it actually. For me, I would say it's not in the forefront of my mind. How do you use punctuation as a signature part of your 'voice'?

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Usually commas and I use similar words, so for example-she smiled, grinned, and widened her mouth showing off her pearly whites letting him know how much his pleasure meant to her.

I wonder how others use punctuation to add the their story.

ttvttp said:

I wonder how others use punctuation to add the their story.

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Puncts are like road bumps -- they always slow and shake their victims. Maybe you want your readers shaken and stirred. Those who remain.

The smoothest flow of words sees a few periods, many fewer commas, almost nothing else but quotes and apostrophes. I punctuate to focus attention on a particular set of words but otherwise try to keep readers engrossed, flowing.

An exercise: Pick up any paperback bestseller. See how the text is punctuated.

One aspect of punctuation that computer spell/grammar check hasn't caught up with in sanctioned usage is that short, introductory words/clauses (e.g., "of course," "apparently") don't have to be set off by a comma anymore if, in speaking it, you'd steam right through in smooth flow (Chicago Manual of Style 16. 6.25). American style is cutting down on the requirement of commas (although it still uses the serial comma). The computer spell check can't discern the subtle differences in this.

KeithD said:

One aspect of punctuation that computer spell/grammar check hasn't caught up with in sanctioned usage is that short, introductory words/clauses (e.g., "of course," "apparently") don't have to be set off by a comma anymore if, in speaking it, you'd steam right through in smooth flow (Chicago Manual of Style 16. 6.25). American style is cutting down on the requirement of commas (although it still uses the serial comma). The computer spell check can't discern the subtle differences in this.

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The storyteller in my head doesn't speak very quickly. He - or sometimes she - tends towards a 'fireside' style. To capture that style, I usually employ quite a few commas. Editors have also noted my fondness for semicolons, em dashes, and ellipses. 'Dialogue tags, too,' he said. 'They can be useful for slowing the reader.'

I love commas so sue me. Nothing wrong with commas, I would much rather have longer sentences with multiple commas than stilted sentences.

ttvttp said:

I wonder how others use punctuation to add the their story.

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I think about punctuation, or its absence, as a tool for controlling the rhythm of a story and communicating somebody's mental state. There are some cases where I could use a period, a semicolon, a comma, an ellipsis, or nothing at all, and any of them would be grammatically correct and give the same meaning, but each of those options has a different weight to it.

Commas and other punctuation are useful for organising words, breaking them up into manageable chunks and indicating how those chunks relate to one another. A semicolon says "here's a new chunk, but it's closely related to the previous chunk, I want you to compare or contrast them". A period doesn't have that same implication that the things it separates are connected.

From one of my stories here:

“I’m sorry, it’s stupid. I got a cold and I was trying to prepare for a review but Professor Cheng’s away at a conference and he’s not answering his emails and I found a nice flat but I didn’t have my ID with me and by the time I got it somebody else had already -”

I held up my hand. “Hang on, hang on. Stop a moment. I know I asked, but I didn’t realise there’d be so much. Anjali, I’ve been travelling and I’m sweaty and gross... look, you can stay the night, but I’m going to need a wash before we have this discussion, okay?”

“Okay. Sorry.”

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Anjali (first speaker) is autistic. She's overwhelmed because too many things are going on at once, and like many autistic people she has a tendency to info-dump without realising that she's going too fast for her listener to keep up.

In her dialogue, I've deliberately minimised punctuation because I want that long run-on sentence to feel like information overload, both to communicate her own mental state and to indicate that Sarah (narrator/protagonist) can't take it all in.

Sarah is also autistic, so she recognises the state Anjali's in and wants to snap her out of it. Short sentences. Lots of punctuation. But she's just come back from a long plane flight, and not in the best state to handle the conversation, so she starts to drift into run-on herself ("I've been travelling and I'm sweaty and gross") before checking herself with an ellipsis (...) signalling a pause for thought. And after that pause she comes back with a plan of action.

I could've written that a little differently:

"Anjali, I’ve been travelling and I’m sweaty and gross. Look, you can stay the night, but I'm going to need a wash..."

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Without the ellipsis, it doesn't have that same implication that Sarah is stalling in mid-sentence to think about what to do. It makes her sound a little more controlled, which isn't what I wanted here.

After that, Anjali's reply is just two one-word sentences, showing that Sarah's succeeded in slowing her down. It would be very different if I'd written something like:

"Okay sorry I just didn't know what to do and I can't call my parents and you were the only one I could think of."

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That would suggest that she's still overloaded.

In that example, it's all dialogue, and the dialogue is also driven by how characters would talk in that situation. But similar considerations show up outside dialogue.

I yanked her hair.

“Ow! Okay, okay. You don’t have to be so mean about it.”

“Don’t have to. But I want to. Now, hurry up, girl. You can keep your underwear, for now. Everything else off.”

I tugged the scarf loose from around her waist and draped it around her neck, so it wouldn’t get in the way as she shed her dress. She obeyed, shedding her fine clothes, and I wondered once again whether it would ever stop seeming magical, that such a marvellous and unique creature should be at my command.

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The comma after "underwear" makes that sentence a little twistier by including just a little bit of a pause before the implied threat of the "for now".

Looking back at this one, I notice that I've punctuated Sarah's dialogue very differently to her narration. Talking to Anjali, she's all short commanding sentences, staccato. But internally she's thinking in longer, more complex sentences. I didn't consciously plan to punctuate these differently, but I don't think it's an accident.

One of the themes of this story is the contrast between Sarah and Anjali's friendship, and the fact that Sarah enjoys dominating Anjali and is paying her for sex. There are some conflicts there, and that shows up in the difference between Sarah's "ferocious dominatrix" voice and her inner voice.

Bramblethorn said:

I think about punctuation, or its absence, as a tool for controlling the rhythm of a story...

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It's like breathing. I'll again cite a Western humorist and Hollywood pioneer who apprenticed as a printer:
See, it's all about breath.

never mind

yukonnights said:

The thought arises; Maybe I don't have anything more to say to the world? After all, the vast majority of everything I've written is about love...it's beauty, our common need for it...the diversity of shades it come in. Maybe I've said all I have to say?

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I doubt that very much.

I sense a Yukon these last few months who is fretting about how other people write, comparisons and such (and possibly worried about reader reactions too much?), rather than the Yukon who writes what he wants to write.

Maybe, just maybe, go back to writing about love and beauty? You can't not write about that, surely?

yukonnights said:

never mind

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Gotcha! You'll be fine. Don't overthink it, my friend, don't overthink it .

RubenR said:

How can there ever be too much about love and beauty; perhaps not everyone appreciates the guillemots, but they're no penguins! And they can fly! They see what others don't see!

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Exactly. Bloody Canucks, they live in God's second best country, and this one reckons he's got nothing left to say? I don't think so .

I find my voice changes a bit with every novel. As I learn more, it changes. As I read more, it changes.

electricblue66 said:

Exactly. Bloody Canucks, they live in God's second best country.

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Really? When did we get demoted?

gordo12 said:

Really? When did we get demoted?

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2017 at least. Switzerland ranks #1. But keep in mind: USAnians are only rich because they charge each other so much, while the Swiss are rich because they charge everyone else so much. Canadian prices are bad enough (*); y'all can do better.
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(*) We drove from Arizona to Honduras to Alaska and then California one year. We stopped at a First Nations store in northern B.C. for supplies. A gallon (okay, four litres) of maple syrup cost CDN$12. Half that much cow milk was CDN$8, or $16/gallon. Milk pricier than maple, ay yi yi! At least we could afford nice Ontario-grown carrots. But USA customs confiscated Albertan sausages at the border. TANJ (There Ain't No Justice).

Hypoxia said:

2017 at least. Switzerland ranks #1. But keep in mind: USAnians are only rich because they charge each other so much, while the Swiss are rich because they charge everyone else so much. Canadian prices are bad enough (*); y'all can do better.

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Switzerland? Pffft! There are no beaches or surf in Switzerland, so that rules them out instantly. You're confusing indexes or some such with subjective reality. You can't surf in Lake Geneva .

Hypoxia said:

2017 at least. Switzerland ranks #1. But keep in mind: USAnians are only rich because they charge each other so much, while the Swiss are rich because they charge everyone else so much. Canadian prices are bad enough (*); y'all can do better.
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(*) We drove from Arizona to Honduras to Alaska and then California one year. We stopped at a First Nations store in northern B.C. for supplies. A gallon (okay, four litres) of maple syrup cost CDN$12. Half that much cow milk was CDN$8, or $16/gallon. Milk pricier than maple, ay yi yi! At least we could afford nice Ontario-grown carrots. But USA customs confiscated Albertan sausages at the border. TANJ (There Ain't No Justice).

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Yeah shipping meat, veggie or fruit products north or south is a no no.

But if you paid $12 for 4 litres of Maple Syrup you got rooked. It wasn't real maple syrup. That costs about $8 for a small jug of it ( Maybe 250 ML or 1 cup whichever makes more sense to you. 4 litres is about 16 cups.

Milk is around $4 for 4 litres so you got rooked there too. Good on us. It's always reassuring to know we're still good at fleecing the unwary traveller

Motto: don't stop in tourist traps!

electricblue66 said:

You can't surf in Lake Geneva .

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Just wait till the Japanese set up their gear there. Monster waves, 24/7.

gordo12 said:

Yeah shipping meat, veggie or fruit products north or south is a no no.

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USA customs didn't take the Canuck carrots. And CDN customs didn't take our Alaskan porkchops. No bribes were involved.

But if you paid $12 for 4 litres of Maple Syrup you got rooked. <...> Milk is around $4 for 4 litres so you got rooked there too. Good on us. It's always reassuring to know we're still good at fleecing the unwary traveller

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We didn't get rooked because we didn't buy the stuff at those prices. That was pretty remote, up around Cassiar IIRC, so blame freight charges. I think we only bought more carrots there. That's the secret treat, eh?

Motto: don't stop in tourist traps!

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More beaver traps than tourist traps in that region, probably.

I have written in so many different voices, I don't remember which one was actually mine.

My I said:

I have written in so many different voices, I don't remember which one was actually mine.

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It's called ventriloquism.

Back in the day were Edgar Bergen (Candace's dad) and Charlie McCarthy (the puppet). Edgar had the world's best job: radio ventriloquist. Throw a funny voice in an empty studio. Audiences can't see your lips move. Right.

LIT authorship is like that. We make odd voices and nobody sees us. Whew.