New master looking for advice

Partially looking for advice, partially venting frustrations. So my wife and I are both very kinky but unfortunately we are both submissive.

We tried switching for a while, but she is rubbish at being a domme. She seems to be completely unable to decide what to do and just defaults to giving me a blowjob while I am tied up and that is the extent of the scene unless I top from the bottom and tell her exactly what to do every step of the way every time. It's not a communication problem, I've made it perfectly clear to her exactly what I like, she just doesn't act on the information and won't do any of it without being explicitly prompted to do so first.

So I've recently decided to take one for the team, bite the bullet, and go full time dom (I was basically already forced to anyway) We have entered into a 24/7 Master/slave relationship and she seems to be thrilled about it. It's not really my thing, but I can kind of get into it. There's just a few problems.

Firstly, she is infuriatingly inconsistent. With some things, she is perfectly and enthusiastically obedient. I tell her that from now on she must rub all of her food on her pussy before she is allowed to eat it and she smiles and says, "Yes Master." and does exactly as she is told without issue, and never needs to be reminded to obey this rule. With other things, which to me seem much simpler, she is outright argumentative and flatly refuses to obey. An example of this is when I told her she is not allowed to answer a yes or no question with a simple yes or no, she must say, out loud, exactly what it is that she is agreeing to, for example, if I ask, "Do you want me to fuck you in the ass?" she must reply, "Yes Master, I want you to fuck me in the ass." Apparently, to her, that is completely unacceptable and she fights me on it, which kind of throws me off because this whole thing does not come naturally to me and it takes effort to stay in character to begin with. So naturally, I should punish her for her disobedience, right? Well that's where the second problem arises.

She throws her safeword around like it's going out of style. The very instant she is not absolutely loving everything that is going on, it's time to shut down everything. Even with a simple spanking, there is ZERO transition between moans of pleasure because it hurts so good and, "Cease and desist immediately!" So since punishment through pain seems to be completely out of the question, I try to come up with more creative forms of punishment, such as making her do something embarrassing or disgusting, but she simply won't play along. I'm out of options. She completely refuses to let me punish her in any way that she doesn't entirely enjoy.

I just don't know what to do. Because I am naturally a sub, I'm playing this dom role in reverse by doing what I would like to have done to me. It's tricky, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job at it, but she is not making it easy. She claims that she loves this whole Master/slave dynamic, that she want's to submit completely to me, but her actions do not match her words at all. Trying to get any kind of meaningful feedback out of her is like pulling teeth, trying to get any kind of advice or guidance out of her is like squeezing water from a stone. Talking about my issues to her is entirely unhelpful.

How exactly is a dom in training supposed to deal with a slave who only obeys when she feels like it and won't accept any punishment she doesn't love?

kinkkey said:

Partially looking for advice, partially venting frustrations. So my wife and I are both very kinky but unfortunately we are both submissive.

We tried switching for a while, but she is rubbish at being a domme. She seems to be completely unable to decide what to do and just defaults to giving me a blowjob while I am tied up and that is the extent of the scene unless I top from the bottom and tell her exactly what to do every step of the way every time. It's not a communication problem, I've made it perfectly clear to her exactly what I like, she just doesn't act on the information and won't do any of it without being explicitly prompted to do so first.

So I've recently decided to take one for the team, bite the bullet, and go full time dom (I was basically already forced to anyway) We have entered into a 24/7 Master/slave relationship and she seems to be thrilled about it. It's not really my thing, but I can kind of get into it. There's just a few problems.

Firstly, she is infuriatingly inconsistent. With some things, she is perfectly and enthusiastically obedient. I tell her that from now on she must rub all of her food on her pussy before she is allowed to eat it and she smiles and says, "Yes Master." and does exactly as she is told without issue, and never needs to be reminded to obey this rule. With other things, which to me seem much simpler, she is outright argumentative and flatly refuses to obey. An example of this is when I told her she is not allowed to answer a yes or no question with a simple yes or no, she must say, out loud, exactly what it is that she is agreeing to, for example, if I ask, "Do you want me to fuck you in the ass?" she must reply, "Yes Master, I want you to fuck me in the ass." Apparently, to her, that is completely unacceptable and she fights me on it, which kind of throws me off because this whole thing does not come naturally to me and it takes effort to stay in character to begin with. So naturally, I should punish her for her disobedience, right? Well that's where the second problem arises.

She throws her safeword around like it's going out of style. The very instant she is not absolutely loving everything that is going on, it's time to shut down everything. Even with a simple spanking, there is ZERO transition between moans of pleasure because it hurts so good and, "Cease and desist immediately!" So since punishment through pain seems to be completely out of the question, I try to come up with more creative forms of punishment, such as making her do something embarrassing or disgusting, but she simply won't play along. I'm out of options. She completely refuses to let me punish her in any way that she doesn't entirely enjoy.

I just don't know what to do. Because I am naturally a sub, I'm playing this dom role in reverse by doing what I would like to have done to me. It's tricky, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job at it, but she is not making it easy. She claims that she loves this whole Master/slave dynamic, that she want's to submit completely to me, but her actions do not match her words at all. Trying to get any kind of meaningful feedback out of her is like pulling teeth, trying to get any kind of advice or guidance out of her is like squeezing water from a stone. Talking about my issues to her is entirely unhelpful.

How exactly is a dom in training supposed to deal with a slave who only obeys when she feels like it and won't accept any punishment she doesn't love?

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Sounds like you're just plain incompatible. You're always going to be unhappy and she's always going to fight you. I'd put an end to something this frustrating.

As for punishment: stop doing what she likes. Stop the whole damn thing.

Have the two of you considered looking for others to be your PYLs (Pick Your Label)? If you're both sub-leaning it's bound to just fall apart (IMO). Perhaps you could each seek out separate relationships with a d-type. Or together, there are people into controlling couples. Just some suggestions for having both needs met. As someone that is very submissive, pretending to be a dom sounds absolutely exhausting.

kinkkey said:

How exactly is a dom in training supposed to deal with a slave who only obeys when she feels like it and won't accept any punishment she doesn't love?

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You can't dominate without power and you have none in your relationship at the moment.

Pick one particular instance where she failed. Tell her that you are displeased about her failing in that matter and that for the next two weeks, she won't get any sexy time. Then for the next two weeks, tease her with words. "Wouldn't you want to have your ass fucked tonight? A pity this isn't going to happen." It doesn't matter what she says (likely:"No, I'm fine, I have two healthy hands.") - stay cool and persistent, no matter how much she begs, pleads or threatens.

If you like, ask her to suck your cock, but in way that it makes it clear that she is merely performing a duty, not doing you a favor - on her knees in the living room while you are standing, for example, not in your bedroom. If she refuses to suck your cock, stay cool, say:"Okay, that's your choice to not suck my cock, but this isn't going to help your evalution and will have future consequences."

Reverse the power - show her that she has none. Play a porn movie on TV and masturbate right in front of her, not allowing her to touch you or suck your cock. If she wants to masturbate, too, send her away. If she refuses, see above.

@MeekMe There is definitely a lot of incompatibility and it is certainly frustrating, but I don't want to end things. Outside of the bedroom, our relationship is fantastic, it's just our sex life that doesn't quite click. I have considered bringing in someone to dominate us both, as that would be the perfect solution to the problem, but she doesn't like that idea at all and is very adamant about us being monogamous. Although it is kind of exhausting, I'm not entirely just pretending to be a dom, I do have a slight bit of a dom streak in me, deep down, it's just hard to channel that side of myself, and when things don't go the way I expect them to and something my sub does breaks my stride, it starts to fall apart fast. I've had a lot of success playing the dom in some of my past relationships because with my exs, it was a lot easier to predict where the lines were going to be, there were a lot less of them, and I had more options for dealing with them, so I could prepare myself and handle the situation better. Honestly, what kind of sub agrees to rub everything they eat on their pussy first without hesitation and sticks with it faithfully, but then turns around and throws a fit over the enormous inconvenience of having to actually say what they want in order to get it? I did not see that coming at all, she completely broke character over it, and it made me lose all my momentum. Good advice on not giving her the punishments she enjoys though, I will definitely stop doing that.


@Primalex Lots of fantastic advice, thank you. Depriving her hadn't even really occurred to me. Now that you've made me think about it, I guess I was sort of being a submissive dom in that I always made sure to give her what she wants, even if she hadn't always earned it. I'd give her a big reward simply because I had it planned, even if she only did half the things I asked of her first. I know that I definitely have a lot of work to do in order to become better at this, and a very big part of it is all about keeping my cool like you said. Once I let myself get frustrated, it really takes the wind out of my sails.

double post

kinkkey said:

Partially looking for advice, partially venting frustrations. So my wife and I are both very kinky but unfortunately we are both submissive.

We tried switching for a while, but she is rubbish at being a domme. She seems to be completely unable to decide what to do and just defaults to giving me a blowjob while I am tied up and that is the extent of the scene unless I top from the bottom and tell her exactly what to do every step of the way every time. It's not a communication problem, I've made it perfectly clear to her exactly what I like, she just doesn't act on the information and won't do any of it without being explicitly prompted to do so first.

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Or, maybe she A) doesn't have a dominant bone in her body (I know you said you're both on the submissive side, but it sounds like you are more capable of switching than she is) or B) Topping feels intimidating as hell, or otherwise overwhelming.

"She's rubbish at being a domme" is just as shitty an attitude as "he isn't dominating me right!" [The way the erotic novels and online cyber-doms do]. Once upon a time, I attempted Topping at someone's request. I put a lot of effort into it, and was critiqued/criticized more often than I was praised for even trying to do something outside my comfort zone. It had such a negative effect on me that even years after the fact, if someone I was dating even brought up switching in passing... I ended the relationship.

If you really want to "take turns" and her Topping you is important for the health of the marriage - explain that. I don't know if you and she found resources for her to utilize (other than you telling her what you specifically wanted), but there are some good books on the subject (quick reads, too) -

The Mistress Manual - The Good Girl's Guide to Female Domination
The Sexually Dominant Woman - A Workbook for Nervous Beginners
The New Topping Book
The New Bottoming Book

So I've recently decided to take one for the team, bite the bullet, and go full time dom (I was basically already forced to anyway). We have entered into a 24/7 Master/slave relationship and she seems to be thrilled about it. It's not really my thing, but I can kind of get into it.

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Mmmmmm... this may be a recipe for resentment. Just sayin'...

There's just a few problems.

Firstly, she is infuriatingly inconsistent. With some things, she is perfectly and enthusiastically obedient. I tell her that from now on she must rub all of her food on her pussy before she is allowed to eat it and she smiles and says, "Yes Master." and does exactly as she is told without issue, and never needs to be reminded to obey this rule.

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Whaaaa?

What is the purpose here? Why? Because my first thought when I read it was that either this entire post is porn-induced fantasy, or neither of you understand female anatomy very well. Any food she rubs on her genitals before eating, increases the odds of getting a yeast infection. Which, since she's then eating the pussy-rubbed food, increases the odds of oral thrush. Not sexy.

With other things, which to me seem much simpler, she is outright argumentative and flatly refuses to obey. An example of this is when I told her she is not allowed to answer a yes or no question with a simple yes or no, she must say, out loud, exactly what it is that she is agreeing to, for example, if I ask, "Do you want me to fuck you in the ass?" she must reply, "Yes Master, I want you to fuck me in the ass." Apparently, to her, that is completely unacceptable and she fights me on it, which kind of throws me off because this whole thing does not come naturally to me and it takes effort to stay in character to begin with.

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Have you discussed WHY she has such a hard time saying it? Maybe it's too humiliating for her. Maybe it's too cheesy and ruins the mood. Maybe she feels like she's pretending, instead of submitting when she has to use standard porn-phrasing during sex. Maybe she was raised very conservatively and talking about herself that way is a hard limit.

Do you know WHY it's a problem? Have y'all sat down and discussed it?

So naturally, I should punish her for her disobedience, right? Well that's where the second problem arises.

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Or... since you're two adults, in an adult relationship, you could like... TALK about it. Find a solution that you both find acceptable. Figure out why it's such an issue, and if there are ways to slowly work that sort of thing into your sex lives (if it's that important to you), but still respect her concerns/issues.

Ya know, relationship stuff.

She throws her safeword around like it's going out of style. The very instant she is not absolutely loving everything that is going on, it's time to shut down everything. Even with a simple spanking, there is ZERO transition between moans of pleasure because it hurts so good and, "Cease and desist immediately!"

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Again, I'm wondering how strong your communication is, and if y'all are on the same page re: D/s. It sounds like you are seeing this as MASTER/slave, and shes seeing it as kinky fun.

So since punishment through pain seems to be completely out of the question, I try to come up with more creative forms of punishment,

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Why does there even have to be punishment? Lots of D/s relationships don't use it at all. For example, if I screw something up, we talk about it and reach an agreement about how things will work moving forward. If I want/need a spanking, or rough sex, or made uncomfortable, or whatever - I ask. It's still his decision if it happens or not, but instead of playing games (you naughty naughty girl! I must punish you!)... I ask.

... such as making her do something embarrassing or disgusting, but she simply won't play along. I'm out of options. She completely refuses to let me punish her in any way that she doesn't entirely enjoy.

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Which means y'all aren't on the same page. She's expecting "funishment (kinky sex)"; you're looking at the relationship in terms of punishment (negative reinforcement for bad behavior).

How much clothes on, outside the bedroom conversations have y'all had about what you both want to achieve here?

I just don't know what to do. Because I am naturally a sub, I'm playing this dom role in reverse by doing what I would like to have done to me.

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Except that SHE IS NOT YOU.

Earlier you said she was "rubbish" as dominance, because she just tied you up and gave you a blow job instead of doing the things you were wanting/expecting (and would end up telling her to do).

What if when she was dominating you, she was "playing this dom role in reverse by doing what I would like to have done to me."?

It's tricky, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job at it, but she is not making it easy. She claims that she loves this whole Master/slave dynamic, that she want's to submit completely to me, but her actions do not match her words at all. Trying to get any kind of meaningful feedback out of her is like pulling teeth, trying to get any kind of advice or guidance out of her is like squeezing water from a stone. Talking about my issues to her is entirely unhelpful.

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Y'all aren't on the same page.

When you say she claims to love this whole Master/slave thing, what does her version of "Master/slave" look like? What does your version look like? What is her end goal? What is your end goal? Is it bedroom-focused, or does the M/s bleed into things outside the bedroom? Do you have similar sexual interests? Have you tried each filling out one of those BDSM checklists, and using it as a starting point for talking about things?

For example, there are things that may technically classify as "humiliation/degradation" that seriously push my buttons in a good way, but there are also things about humiliation and degradation that will shut me down in a heartbeat. Lots of nuance. Because of the nuance, I spend quite a bit of time communicating with new partners about my non-standard philosophies re: humiliation/degradation.

If he "gets it"? Awesome; we have something to add to our sexual toolbox.

If he doesn't "get it"? I take it off the table, and refuse to engage in humiliation/degradation with him.

If somewhere along the line we have a "hiccup" and hit a bad trigger? We stop, lots of reassurance happens on both sides, and we talk through it.

How exactly is a dom in training supposed to deal with a slave who only obeys when she feels like it and won't accept any punishment she doesn't love?

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You figure out if you're both approaching this from the same viewpoint. If you aren't, you figure out how to bring your points of view a little closer together.

It sounds like you are approaching this from a very bog-standard Master/slave = X point of view.

From your description, it sounds like she is approaching things from a Top/bottom [labeled as Master/slave] kinky sex point of view.

What can the two of you work on, to bring those two points of view closer into alignment?

She has no objections to being the domme, and seems to enjoy doing it when I walk her through it. I didn't tell her she was bad at being a domme, that's just the conclusion I have reached after working at it quite extensively and patiently without making any progress for a very long time. I made sure to give her plenty of praise and make her feel comfortable and tried to show her with video examples and gave her reading materials. She still says that she just has absolutely no idea what to do, which is why I end up having to give her the step by step instructions. This is just a general problem for us in the bedroom, no matter how I phrase the question, be it an open-ended "What would you like?" a limited selection, "Would you prefer A, B, or C?" or just a yes or no, more often than not, the answer is a shrug and a general attitude of confusion and annoyance and being required to make any sort of decision whatsoever, hence my decision to fully assume the dominant role and remove the need for her to make decisions.

The purpose of the food thing, along with a whole host of other rules I have given her, is to sexualize everyday activities. The objective is a Pavlovian conditioning effect where virtually everything she does in a given day will now be associated in her mind with sex and build arousal. It's sort of like a passive, continuous form of foreplay. As for the hygienic aspect of it, she always cleans up with a baby wipe afterwards and it hasn't caused any issues so far.

Her complaint about having to say what she is agreeing to is, "It's redundant." My argument is that I like hearing her talk dirty, which she has no actual issue with, it isn't about being uncomfortable or embarrassed or thinking it's cheesy, but it goes back to her total lack of desire to make decisions and so when I ask her to talk dirty, she says has absolutely no clue what to say unless I literally hand her a script, so this is my way of doing exactly that, but the idea of having to repeat what I just said seems too tedious to her.

There is plenty of communication, but it's usually hard to drag an actual opinion or preference out of her most of the time, and then once I do, her actions rarely align with her words. She is the one who suggested a full time master and slave situation, complete with a contract that she read excitedly and agreed to. In text messages, where she is usually much more forthcoming than in person, she will tell me that she did something wrong and needs to be punished when I get home, and she has even said that she is not supposed to enjoy her punishments, but then the moment she stops enjoying them, she demands that they stop.

Honestly, upon further reflection, it seems a lot like she is just extremely passionate about acting out fantasies that don't turn out to be what she expected, but she refuses to give up on them and admit defeat. I suspect that she's not nearly as submissive as she thinks she is, as she wishes she was, but she really wants to go on pretending anyways because the idea of it gets her hot.

kinkkey said:

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Honestly, upon further reflection, it seems a lot like she is just extremely passionate about acting out fantasies that don't turn out to be what she expected, but she refuses to give up on them and admit defeat. I suspect that she's not nearly as submissive as she thinks she is, as she wishes she was, but she really wants to go on pretending anyways because the idea of it gets her hot.

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I suspect that's the core of the issue. It's actually a pretty common issue; hence, the "he won't dominate me the way he's supposed to!" comment.

She's looking at M/s as kinky fun, and is on board as long as it's what SHE wants. She hasn't figured out yet that D/ & M/s sometimes (or frequently) means doing what you're told. Period.

If you don't want X behavior, don't reward it.

If you do want X behavior, make sure she knows the only way to get what she wants, is to do X.

It's a huge pain in the ass way of getting what you want (because it takes constant villegence), and can backfire, but it tends to be effective.

kinkkey said:

So I've recently decided to take one for the team, bite the bullet, and go full time dom (I was basically already forced to anyway) It's not really my thing, but I can kind of get into it. I just don't know what to do. Because I am naturally a sub, I'm playing this dom role in reverse by doing what I would like to have done to me. There's just a few problems.

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While it all speaks to your commitment to your relationship, I'm shocked you say there are just a few problems, considering what you've mentioned here. You are both fighting who you truly are deep down inside. I'm sure so many people in here could easily testify to the fact that one can only bend so far before *SNAP!*

kinkkey said:

So my wife and I are both very kinky but unfortunately we are both submissive.

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What's unfortunate about that? Maybe you both could try working with that amazing aspect of your relationship instead of trying to be something you're, self-admittedly, not. Maybe you could explore the idea of finding a Dominant for you both to submit to? It would take some real effort from you both to find the right person, seeing as she wants to remain monogamous, but it's not an impossibility. At least you'd be going with the current instead of fighting against it. Whatever you decide, I do wish you all the best.

kinkkey said:

Honestly, what kind of sub agrees to rub everything they eat on their pussy first without hesitation and sticks with it faithfully, but then turns around and throws a fit over the enormous inconvenience of having to actually say what they want in order to get it?

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What kind of sub? The kind you're married to.

IMHO, asking "what kind of sub does X but not Y?" is about as helpful as asking "what sort of person wants to be dominated in the first place?" People like what they like, and there's no accounting for tastes. The fact that somebody calls themselves a "sub" doesn't automatically mean they're up for everything that might fall under the label "sub".

(At this point we could argue about whether somebody with those particular tastes should be called a sub, but that also strikes me as an unproductive line of discussion; changing the label isn't likely to change the preferences that are frustrating you.)

Her preferences are valid, no matter how illogical they might be. Your preferences are also valid. If you have communicated those preferences and she's refusing to acknowledge them and work with you to find some modus vivens that works for both of you, then... TBH, your sex life is the least of your worries, because sooner or later that same pattern is likely to become a problem outside the bedroom.

If it were me, I'd be saying something like: "I don't understand what you want out of this and I'm not sure you understand what I want out of this. It feels like this is being driven entirely by your preferences and I can't find the confidence to act like a dom when you're calling all the shots. Until we can figure out something that works for both of us, I'm not playing any more."

Others have suggested that if your preferences aren't compatible, one option is to look for a dom outside the relationship. This might be part of a solution, but if so, there's other stuff you need to sort out first. Successful nonmonogamy requires good negotiation skills and the ability to set boundaries and respect your partners' boundaries; from what you've said, it sounds as if the two of you need to work on that side of things before you consider throwing a third person into the mix. Otherwise you're just papering over the underlying problem, and you can expect it to come back bigger and nastier.