Feedback Request: Magnetism

Hey hey team.

Have posted stories for a while, but only recently realized there was this forum here (potentially better feedback than the comments section of the main site).

In the interest of improving my storytelling, I was hoping for feedback on my most recent:

https://www.literotica.com/s/magnetism

This ones something of a slow rolling story by the general standards of the site... although I'm not sure how it compares to the others in the Romance section. Mainly character focused.


I'm interested in any sort of criticism on the pacing, characters, etc.
If a sentence sticks out as being awkward, feel free to mention.
Not so interested in Typos- those I should fix, but I don't LEARN anything from having them pointed out.
Be as critical as you like, as long as its constructive. Only way to learn is to have errors pointed out.

... a couple specific things I meant to ask about... but perhaps want to see what people notice on their own before biasing opinions.

Thanks heaps, and if you'd like me to return the favor I'd be happy to.

If I remember, I'll come back to this next time I sign in. I read over the first page and had a lot of thoughts; too many to list right now.

I'd also point out that, unless you intend to repost the story (some do), any critiques, including typos, are academic. The point is, that typos get by (e.g.: "too" instead of "to") because a typo filter missed them, and you might want the heads up so you know to watch for them if you are missing a lot. However, after reading the first page, that wasn't one of the pecking items on my list.

In brief, it's mostly about sentence fragments, run-on sentences, and certain phraseologies you employ. However, it depends; that might be your style.

Intriguing.

Not Romance, not really. You'd probably get better traction shifting it to Sci-Fi, which is a bit more its central theme.

Your style is different, refreshing, works for a sci-fi genre. Except for this:

And now dear reader, as I'm sure you know the genre of this story, I will have to beg even more of your patients.

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Noooo, just, no. Not only the misspelling (patience), but there was no need to break the fourth wall.

I was little disappointed In the denouement; you'd been building the story up to the point where I'm wondering where Ezra is actually from, was she possibly alien, but then you brought me right back to earth.

Still, I gave it a five, for chutzpah and gusto. Write more, and discipline yourself a little, guard against being too clever.

Glah! I just wrote out a condensed and concise review and pushed control instead of shift and the window closed on me!

I don't know if I'd have enough in me to try to rewrite it again. That was three hours I'll never get back...

I thought the Science aspects played more as metaphor than Sci-Fi, I didn't have any problem with that, and I think it fits fine in Romance.

I get it that the title was not idly chosen, this is a story of irresistible attraction. But that makes it seem a bit deterministic. Where is the dramatic tension if we are reading a story in which we know the inevitable outcome, no matter how eloquently it is presented?

And it is eloquently presented. I enjoyed the story and intend to check out some more of your offerings.

Nice story. I really liked it. You've got the whole scientific conference / poster session / graduate student vibe down perfectly, and it was very enjoyable to read those parts. You've also convincingly portrayed the romance of theoretical physics—the exhilaration of knowing that it is within our ability to answer fundamental questions about the way the world works; the attention to detail, physical effort, and self scrutiny that is needed to actually carry out the computations and make sense of them.

I found the real-world parts of the story more interesting than the "mystical" elements. Ezra has a real vision. She's involved on an arduous quest. She needs someone to look after her, to love her. These are the elements of a powerful story in the real world, and it seems to me that it would have been even more dramatic and emotionally resonant if you had played it out between two fully fleshed out, realistic people without all the "this has happened before" business.

The story paints a pretty vivid picture of Ezra, but not of the narrator. We don't really get any sense of who he is except that he is drawn to her. In fact, when his name was first mentioned, a name I wasn't familiar with, my first thought was that I had even misconstrued his gender. In the mystical realm I guess his personality doesn't really matter that much. His only purpose in the universe is to be there when Ezra summons him, to be bossed around by the roommate, to tidy up the pizza boxes and empty cups.

But you could have written this as a story between two real people, attracted by a shared interest and an ordinary personal magnetism, who each have their own virtues and flaws, and who come to develop, less precipitously perhaps, a friendship and a closeness. Then you would have had to give us some indication of what Ezra sees in him, why she finds him attractive and desirable. The mystical stuff seems like a cop out to avoid having to deal with the emotional give and take involved in the establishing of a real relationship.

The final metaphor—fusion, dawn—ties in nicely with the scientific threads throughout the story, but I wonder if it's a bit much. It's pretty early in the relationship to speak too profoundly about two becoming one. And surely you don't mean conception—the story doesn't have enough gravity to support that.

So. Good story, well written, best when you keep it real.

—

Just a couple technical things. You tend to use a lot of single-sentence or even single-word paragraphs. Sometimes it's hard to puzzle out exactly who's saying or thinking what. Pay attention when you read other authors to see how they handle stuff like that. Also, google "em dash." A little review will help you use them more confidently. You can put them into your text using your word processor. (In Google Docs I click Insert / Special Characters / Punctuation / Dash connectors / Em dash). Then, if you copy and paste your story into the Lit submit box, they should come through.

Short bursts of energy.

Romance is typically not my thing but I like your style. The short sentences and deliberate fragments carried me along. I'm wondering if you're trying to channel Hemingway on some level. Some people might complain about the sentence fragments but deliberate flaws, done right, can help tell the story better. A few typos and misspellings here and there but those are nitpicks. I'd like to see what happens if you wrote in other genres. Interesting style.

First things first, thank you one and all.
Lets reply one quote at a time!

electricblue66 said:

Intriguing.
Noooo, just, no. Not only the misspelling (patience), but there was no need to break the fourth wall.
....
discipline yourself a little, guard against being too clever.

Click to expand...

.... You are entirely correct. What was I thinking.
The 4th wall is there for a reason.
I am sorry. Please forgive. :-(

LWulf said:

Glah! I just wrote out a condensed and concise review and pushed control instead of shift and the window closed on me!

I don't know if I'd have enough in me to try to rewrite it again. That was three hours I'll never get back...

Click to expand...

My condolences. I too know this pain.
If you feel inspired to write up the key points, that would be lovely. If you are too disheartened, I totally understand.

MelissaBaby said:

I get it that the title was not idly chosen, this is a story of irresistible attraction. But that makes it seem a bit deterministic. Where is the dramatic tension if we are reading a story in which we know the inevitable outcome, no matter how eloquently it is presented?

Click to expand...

Hmmm... my idea was to have something along the lines of "This has all happened before... and last time it didn't end well." The tension is less a "will they won't they" and more of a star-crossed lovers sort of thing. ... and if that was my goal I should have done it better.
... Will think on this.

HectorBidon said:

Nice story. I really liked it. You've got the whole scientific conference / poster session / graduate student vibe down perfectly, and it was very enjoyable to read those parts. ... ETC

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Really glad to hear this. I was worried that the grad students and physics set up was going to end up being too jargony and esoteric, and I'd lose all readers who didn't have a PhD in astrophysics (Which... I assume not ALL of you have ??)

HectorBidon said:

The story paints a pretty vivid picture of Ezra, but not of the narrator. ....

Click to expand...

Entirely fair.
I definitely should have dropped his name earlier, and at least touched on some of his research. I guess I just didn't spot many places where the narrator would be thinking about themselves... but I SHOULD have.
As a general question for all you Literoticans, what is everyones feelings on "ultra specific" narrators vs more "everyman" narrators?
As in... Having a strong character for narrator makes for a stronger story, but makes it less a place where the reader can imagine themselves into that situation, if that makes sense.

HectorBidon said:

But you could have written this as a story between two real people, attracted by a shared interest and an ordinary personal magnetism.... The mystical stuff seems like a cop out to avoid having to deal with the emotional give and take involved in the establishing of a real relationship.

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Fair call.

HectorBidon said:

The final metaphor—fusion, dawn—ties in nicely with the scientific threads throughout the story, but I wonder if it's a bit much. It's pretty early in the relationship to speak too profoundly about two becoming one. And surely you don't mean conception—the story doesn't have enough gravity to support that.

Click to expand...

Fair. I got caught up with the idea of having Ezra's presentation at the start bookending with the end, and tried to be entirely too clever, when yes, as you say, this is certainly a bit much given the timeline.
Maybe acceptable in something longer, but even then, presumably unnecessary.

Nice use of "Gravity" in the critique, for added scientific threading.

HectorBidon said:

Just a couple technical things...

Click to expand...

Will look into this.

PrevertOne said:

Romance is typically not my thing but I like your style. The short sentences and deliberate fragments carried me along. I'm wondering if you're trying to channel Hemingway on some level. Some people might complain about the sentence fragments but deliberate flaws, done right, can help tell the story better. A few typos and misspellings here and there but those are nitpicks. I'd like to see what happens if you wrote in other genres. Interesting style.

Click to expand...

Wasn't deliberately trying to channel Hemingway, but yes, the fragmented sentences are entirely intentional. Balancing the pace with not confusing the audience is the goal, and rules of grammar be damned.
If you want to see me in other genres, then by all means, I've got about half a dozen up there so far, (pretty much all in "erotic couplings")




* * * * * * * * * *

Okay, so.... Not as a defense, but just for the sake of discussion....
This was really meant to be part of a multi-parter. Which... I should have made clear in the post title.
And... a lot of the mentioned issues stem from threads in the story put in place with the intention of exploring them later (in particular the "this has happened before" stuff).

Now... whether that makes that stuff worth while or whatever is up for debate. I was (and still am) interested in seeing if I can pull off the "star crossed lovers" schtick, possibly with added tension from the Narrator noticing the magnetism, but not really buying into any of the "this has happened before" claims.


What I SHOULD have done is written the whole thing, and possibly shuffled some of this stuff around for better pacing (less over the top "fusion" or whatever this early on, for example), but I got impatient for feedback, and frankly a little too pleased with the cleverness of my own ideas. Oh well. Thats what critique is for.

There's also questions as to whether the two threads of "Physics" and "Mystical" want to be in the same story, or whether they'd be better off in completely different stories.... although now that I have gone and stuck them in the same story, I'll probably continue just to see what happens.

I think my plan is to edit and rejig and maybe do the multiparter as intended. I'll probably keep the mystical elements in this story (as they are plot supporting pillars), but steer clear of such woo-woo in future stories, for yes, as people say, it is a cop out.

Thank you all kindly.
(And yeah, further discussion still welcome, but saying thanks is important)

AllTheBetterNamesWereTaken said:

What I SHOULD have done is written the whole thing, and possibly shuffled some of this stuff around for better pacing (less over the top "fusion" or whatever this early on, for example), but I got impatient for feedback, and frankly a little too pleased with the cleverness of my own ideas. Oh well.

Click to expand...

You're not the first and you won't be the last to suffer premature submission. Like ejaculation, once you get to a certain point you can't stop yourself; it's exciting at the time, but ultimately, so much better when you slow down and do it properly .

AllTheBetterNamesWereTaken said:

Hmmm... my idea was to have something along the lines of "This has all happened before... and last time it didn't end well." The tension is less a "will they won't they" and more of a star-crossed lovers sort of thing. ... and if that was my goal I should have done it better.
... Will think on this.

Click to expand...

I understand that, and I will reiterate, I thought you did it well. But even if it happened before and will again, there could be a bit more ebb and flow as the relationship develops.

As someone who has submitted long series chapter by chapter, there is a downside in that readers do not now your intentions or comprehend how the early chapters fit into a much larger narrative. On the other hand, you can process criticism as you go along, and hopefully, become a stronger writer for it.

As to the Mystical vs. Physics, I thought that was what made the story work.

Let's hope this goes better this time.

I think you used too many voices for the main character. You use his voice, his inner voice and as a third person narrator. This might be why others are confused about who is talking. My suggestion would be to use one or two, but not all three.

Unless, you are trying to write it as a memoir. Even so, then you need to sharpen up and clarify some things a bit more. However, I still think in a memoir, only two voices would be heard, the voice and narrator, because that's the inner dialog, in a sense. The narrator is in the present describing the past and shares inner voice moments amidst the narration.
Because narrators might give a header/topic, but not inner voices: "Magnetism" "Something written in the stars."

I think what you did was use an internal dialog or 'stream of consciousness' to describe certain parts. There isn't a right or wrong way to use a stream of consciousness, because different people think in different ways. Some use disjointed sentence fragments (and/or run-on sentences), while another might use one long-assed run-on sentence without punctuation. This has been done by several professional (paid), accomplished (critically acclaimed), authors.

It's funny that someone mentioned Hemingway, because he was criticized for "Hills like Elephants" because of readers not knowing who was talking at various parts of the story. However, as I said, I think it's more a matter of too many multiple voices being used, or at least not enough difference between them. Okay, enough beating that dead horse.

Are you aware that you used "confidence" six times on the first page? She was confident, he was confident in her, confident magicians, her confidence was arrogant, confident understanding, etc. That's a whole lotta confidence goin' on.
I won't mention how many times "meant" was mentioned. While you don't want to talk over your readers, you also don't want to talk under them, if you follow my meaning. Don't think you have to spell out or remind them that these lovers are fated/star crossed/whatever. Describe the relationship without reminding the reader and let them intuit they were meant to be together.

While I got the whole magnetism as a metaphor for attraction, but I also got a lot of mixed signals. Where?
His interests in her:
"I'd felt it once or twice before, a feeling completely unlike the usual sense of desire. Something needle sharp, inevitable, specific." 'Unlike the usual' but he isn't sure how many times he's felt it before? Once, or (maybe) twice???
"as she speaks the memory hits me" So memorable was she that he forgot her after only a year?
To top that off, he felt something cosmic, and he doesn't ask around 'who's that girl?' He doesn't whinge to his friends, pining about a missed opportunity? He doesn't look at the speaker's docket to see who was scheduled to speak? For a year? I didn't know the laws of magnetism were so weak...
"had completely forgotten that bright eyed scientist from a year earlier."
and now, proof that the moment was oh so special. I knew a special someone that 'got away.' 20 years later, as we walked towards each other on a street, I made an instant connection of who this woman walking towards me was. She knew instantly who I was too. Yet, after one year the female character was forgotten???
"I didn't even think she was that pretty" Doh! Uh, I don't know... A singularity event occurs, something that has happened once (or twice) before, and she isn't his Sun during the day, and moon at night??? "I mean, like... she was," Uh, okay, and? "but there were plenty of beautiful women," ouch, dude! not good! "and I ignored every single one of them" uh, okay kinda lame save there. Observing or noting other women were beautiful, or fuckable, doesn't sound like the mega-attraction is there.
"I miss what she says." and apparently she isn't worth listening to over his own thoughts. Okay, I get it, it happens. You're trying to show imperfect characters, that's good, but it still seems the wrong way to show fated lovers.
"wondering just what the hell I had got myself into." Doesn't sound very promising. If you're trying to express his nervousness about a relationship that has so overwhelmed him, then you need to express this better.
"This woman already has me wrapped around her finger" and the mathematical proof of this is...? It seems like an unsupported statement.

Her:
"Communication, and a knowing smirk, the knowledge that this is what she was wanted, that this was her destiny." Did she spot him, seated at the back of the 'lecturer theater', or was her destiny the work that she was talking about? Did he move forward in seats to get a better look at her, making her notice him?
"uninterested in her own tricks." Bueller? ...Bueller? ...Bueller? (Do you think that would capture people's attention?
"We should talk research some time." doesn't sound very enthusiastic... It sounds very surfacy. Yet that's how it started???
"You just won me a weeks worth of free coffee." Ha Ha! Aren't you just a dweeb!? I used you easily, because you're so pathetic! Don't you see by this, that I like you?

Most of the above was just a 'blow by blow' description with not a lot more going on to clue in the reader, what else is going on. Similar to what you mentioned on another writer's request for a critique, hmm?

The trouble is, I suspect I know what you're seeking to do: to describe the primal in logical terms. VERY tricky stuff. Did you achieve it? uhh... meh. It seems more one sided, more obsessive stalker. I read it more as he was interested in her long before she noticed him. To me, that's not star-crossed lovers. Star-crossed lovers is where the attraction starts between them both. She might put him through the wringer, of course because she wants to know if his love is true (Romeo and Juliet), but in the end, he might not know her feelings likewise, but he knows she notices him.

"It was a regular poster session at a regular conference on a regular day." So I guess everyone ate lots of fiber that day? Too much regular, or change it up. "It started out like a..." And what is a "poster session?" Is it like a science fair? Do they commonly have multiple colleges in these sessions? Don't talk over your readers; expecting them to know such things. It distances them instead of drawing them into the story.

Sentences that didn't make sense/awkward phrases:
"... the knowledge that this is what she was wanted, ..." No clue how to fix this.
"I was wondering what you could tell me about your labs recent word into partial phase electrofluids." I believe you meant '...work in...'
"...and left Natalia to (shut down or close up, not shut up) the shop."
"looked h̶e̶r̶ into t̶h̶e̶ her eyes o̶n̶ at her doorstep" (sounded too confrontational)
"That dream-like knowledge that I am meant to be standing here."
"and off in the corner if your get the angle right it a ribbon of trees" I believe you meant 'off in the corner. if you get it at the right angle, a ribbon of trees..."

Try to make sure your tenses stay the same throughout the story (unless you are referring to past moments, natch').
"Here was this... and I wanted her."
"Her voice is cool"

I can't do all three pages again, so I'll call it here. I'm sure you get the gist.

To start off, I want to double down on pretty much everything HectorBiden and MelissaBaby said. Their advice was spot on, and even though you’ve already gone through it and marked those comments as fair I think it is worth noting that I agree pretty much 100%. On the whole, all of the criticism here has been very fair and constructive, and it figuratively warms my heart. So since you’ve already gotten a few lengthy responses, I thought I’d try to bring one point that a lot of people mentioned tangentially into sharp focus.

As authors, there are many tools in our tool box. Tools have specific purposes. Not every tool is used on every job, but there are some that see a lot of action. The most powerful tool, regardless of style or personal preference, is the hammer. It can, with the smallest amount of force, apply the largest amount of energy. It must be wielded with care.

Repetition is a 10 lb mallet. When used properly, you can take a throw-away sentence and turn it into the most powerful three words in a story by repeating them. You can turn the aloof love interest of a story into a slave by simply having them repeat what it is that they want. You can also break your story into nothingness by repeating things that don’t need to be repeated. Redundancy is an important concept in a lot of the sciences and maths, but it has no place in fiction.

If your love interest turns to your protagonist and says,

“I want you,”

that’s a direct statement of intent by a confident character.

”I want you.”

“Say it again.”

“I want you.”

With zero narration, this tiny addition completely changes the balance of power between these characters, and it happens with repetition.

”I want you.”

“Say it again.”

“I want you. I want you. I want you. I want you.”

Now it’s ridiculous. When you use a word once, it’s just a word. When you use a word a second time, it’s a marker that makes readers stand up and take note. It says this is important. When you overuse a word, you rob it of that importance. In some places, like satire and comedy, robbing a word of its importance can be powerful in its own way, but here it is detrimental. This story uses the titular word SO MANY TIMES. I reached a “We get it” moment early on the first page. By the third page, I was actively annoyed by its presence, and that’s not a reaction you want from your readers.

Repetition doesn’t just apply to word choice (although it should ALWAYS play a factor in word choice). It applies to themes and foreshadowing. Themes are what make stories more than the sum of their parts, and foreshadowing is the proof by which readers can later dissect a story and trust that you knew what you were doing when you made various stylistic choices. All of that happens as a function of repetition.

I thought this was a solid effort, and you should be proud of it. Keep writing.

P.S. You had scene breaks that separated some moments that seemed only seconds apart. Also, in fiction, only ever use quotation marks for dialog between characters. Never for quoting someone.

P.P.S. Nothing teaches an author more than exposure to other authors. Read the works of others with a critical eye, and especially with the advice given above fresh in your mind. Watch how other people handle these same problems. More often than not you’ll see they’re making the same mistakes, but it will help you to see how they failed and where you might have done something differently that would be stronger for the change.

AllTheBetterNamesWereTaken said:

As a general question for all you Literoticans, what is everyones feelings on "ultra specific" narrators vs more "everyman" narrators? As in... Having a strong character for narrator makes for a stronger story, but makes it less a place where the reader can imagine themselves into that situation, if that makes sense.

Click to expand...

A narrator doesn't necessarily have to be ultra specific, but he's got to have enough of a personality that you come away from the story feeling that you've met a real person. Somehow I didn't get a strong sense of that with your narrator. I'm not sure why exactly. You do let us into his mind, but most of what he does is just allow himself to be pushed upon by external forces.

I got caught up with the idea of having Ezra's presentation at the start bookending with the end, and tried to be entirely too clever, when yes, as you say, this is certainly a bit much given the timeline.

Click to expand...

Fortunately, there are plenty of other astrophysical metaphors left: "Collision, ... momentum, ... accretion."

There's also questions as to whether the two threads of "Physics" and "Mystical" want to be in the same story, or whether they'd be better off in completely different stories.... although now that I have gone and stuck them in the same story, I'll probably continue just to see what happens.

Click to expand...

Certainly more chapters will give you room to develop the mystical thread. You've got two levels of mystical, it seems to me. You've got the magnetism—which is essentially as fundamental and profound as any of the forces of astrophysics, and so fits nicely into the tenor of the story. And then you've got Ezra. "I've read the script," she says. This makes it sound like you've got some explicit supernatural past-lives backstory already in mind. The challenge will be to make the backstory as authentic and magnificent as the front story: counting tree rings on the stars.

But maybe I'm reading too much into this. Maybe Ezra is referring to past semesters, not past lives. Maybe she skips over the preliminaries of courtship because she's been there, done that, and just wants to get on with things. Maybe what she's seen happen before is lovers eventually getting tired of her falling asleep over her laptop.

But maybe this time things will be different. Maybe the magnetism that draws the narrator toward Ezra is really the same magnetism that draws her towards the stars. Maybe he's being pushed right where he belongs: into being her attendant, caring for her during her trances, helping to translate her prophecies, accompanying her on her holy quest. Maybe this time the stars will bless the two of them instead of crossing them.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I just thought I'd add that I thought the story IS creative and interesting, while I suggest certain modifications as I noted.

I usually like to leave a little of the sweet with the sour, and didn't necessarily state that specifically enough before, warranting this posting.