Objectification/Humiliation

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Quint said:

^^Ditto me on cat's post.

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And that, ladies, is why I think I like to do this business with boys. Because I think for all the time in the universe spent on "it's OK that you want to suck some cock" it will never completely ever be totally OK, at least with anyone Kinsey center enough to still want me to play with me or any other girl. There has to be some shadow of a hang up, or else I'd have to go in search of new ones, like age body type race class, oh, whatever works.

Some of the humiliation stuff I worry about. In terms of, if they have a hang up, usually I notice because it's in the way of stuff I want to do. If it's not in my way, I don't notice, so how do I know about it? (Heaven forbid I actually talk to a submissive.) I guess I also care about mental wellbeing (I don't like breaking my toys) and focussed humiliation on an issue can make matters worse rather than better.

So self-prompting humiliation (making a submissive beg explicitly, for example) I can go for. When it's externally applied (keep out of open wounds)... well, I don't have enough experience to regard it as "safe".

am i reading you right, netzach? you're saying that finding the point of humiliation may be hard with some women, as apparently quint and cat are saying--- they're quite happy (self accepting) with an inclination to lick the master's cum from the bottom of a wastebasket, suck off a couple of his friends etc. they're, in your terms, free of 'hangups' around satisfying those desires

males (in the mixed or hetero parts of Kinsey's scale) on the other hand [you're saying, i think] can never quite be quite so blasé about some things, eg. diirections to suck cock or latent desires to do so. so the female top will generally have at least this one humiliating thing to work with.

i think i'd agree but it seems to me that an aversion to being sodomized, butt fucked, is often even stronger [and the shame/humiliation greater] than the aversion to cock sucking.

straights, i think--being one-- can more easily rationalize getting a suck than having one's butt become a pussy, esp. a communal one, as in prison.




N said And that, ladies, is why I think I like to do this business with boys. Because I think for all the time in the universe spent on "it's OK that you want to suck some cock" it will never completely ever be totally OK, at least with anyone Kinsey center enough to still want me to play with me or any other girl. There has to be some shadow of a hang up, or else I'd have to go in search of new ones, like age body type race class, oh, whatever works.

CutieMouse said:

<snip[> To a certian degree, getting a shy, innocent prude to admit her fetishes/erotic humilation buttons is almost a mind-fuck... if it's something you simply don't do, it's very unnerving to find yourself doing it.

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Is there any other way to begin an adult relationship?

CutieMouse said:

Lately? Apparently not.

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I find that fetish discussion goes very well with the occasional latté presumptiatto.

CutieMouse said:

Yeeahhh... which is why when I next catch up with the latest interested-in-the-mouse man? We're having a serious conversation about coffee. As in meeting for. Which is a pain in the ass given than he lives all the hell down near Austin.

(I should at least get points for being in the same country, and bonus points for being in the same state, right?)

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[slight hijack]Isn't it further from El Paso to Brownsville than it is from Dallas to Chicago? [/slight highjack]

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CutieMouse said:

... To a certian degree, getting a shy, innocent prude to admit her fetishes/erotic humilation buttons is almost a mind-fuck... if it's something you simply don't do, it's very unnerving to find yourself doing it.

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But if it is something you do do, it's incredibly hot.

Oh... and if no one's noticed, I have an incredible sarcastic streak and when coupled with my sadistic tendencies, I can give verbal flayings that can strip a soul bare. Yes, I remember basic training.

I hate to admit this, but when I was a young, terribly ignorant, and frankly frustrated, angry with the world, hating myself and my situation father, my ex- and my children were frequent targets of my scathing diatribes. I said things to them that I regret to this day. It's something I have worked hard on for many years to reverse because I do NOT want to rip the self-esteem of those I care for and love. My kids seem to have forgiven me.

I have a harder time forgiving myself.

Oh, yes, I could do humiliation. I can certainly do the teasing. I could even do the public humiliation thing, but I probably wouldn't. _I_ find myself regarding those who lay into their partner in public are the childish ones, the ignorant ones, the lazy ones, certainly the mean ones. Discipline and punishment, in my book, are for private time, though I suppose in a BDSM group or dungeon I might be comfortable with doing a public humiliation scene.

Objectification, to me, has both attractive and repulsive elements to it. I understand the appeal of de-humanizing the bottom. It's so much easier to unleash the sadist on a non-person. The flip side of that is that I don't want the person _I_ am objectifying to objectify themselves. I want them in the here and now. I want them feeling the pain, the humiliation, the scorn, whatever I am unleashing on them. I do not want them off in subspace or never-never land. I want them in pain, in tears, in humiliation...

*sighs*
Sometimes I scare myself when I look inside and see what is roilling around in the darkness.

CutieMouse said:

Yeeahhh... which is why when I next catch up with the latest interested-in-the-mouse man? We're having a serious conversation about coffee. As in meeting for. Which is a pain in the ass given than he lives all the hell down near Austin.

(I should at least get points for being in the same country, and bonus points for being in the same state, right?)

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Yer bitching about Dallas to Austin? ? ?

I was doing Columbia, SC to Austin, several times a year! Dallas - Austin is a freaking day trip! *LOL*

Get down there and meet for coffee fer Pete's sake!
And good luck!
{{{{{HUG}}}}}

*wonders off mumbling something about lucky summonabeach... *

Evil_Geoff said:

*sighs*
Sometimes I scare myself when I look inside and see what is roilling around in the darkness.

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This is a feeling that I'm starting to understand more and more.

well i LOVE the humiliation thing. when i have sex its a MUST! i love to be called everything! i love to have my partner "talk dirty" to me, during sex the badder the better for me hehe...dunno why...it juss really gets me off to b called names..in a sexual sense ofcourse.

SLUT13 said:

well i LOVE the humiliation thing. when i have sex its a MUST! i love to be called everything! i love to have my partner "talk dirty" to me, during sex the badder the better for me hehe...dunno why...it juss really gets me off to b called names..in a sexual sense ofcourse.

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*notes your log on name* I can see that.

There is something special about humiliation that draws me. I'm only just venturing into it's possabilitites and effects and find it fascinating. Two of my closer fem. friends have admitted to me that they want to be made to feel like unworthy reffuse. Both had their own varying degrees of course. The one wants to be made to feel used sexually and the other wishes to feel like someone who has even fewer rights and dignity. **must be the new season**
Both are extremely sexual women. Wit and spirit are posessed by both. (though the second woman with the deeper appetites is a much sharper tack with far more intelligance. humor and personality...I'm biased since I love her) I list these small details for my own observational purposes. It helps me find patterns and trends. (I'm too analytical for my own good.)

Everyone I've ever met who thought it hot being called a brainless cow or a stupid bitch, male or female, was a super duper academic high achiever with a good sense of humor about their insecurities and a history of overcoming insecurities to large or small extent.

Just a common observation. It takes a pretty endless stream of "how smart you are!" for "you idiot" to seem kind of verboten and neat rather than painful.

Netzach said:

Everyone I've ever met who thought it hot being called a brainless cow or a stupid bitch, male or female, was a super duper academic high achiever with a good sense of humor about their insecurities and a history of overcoming insecurities to large or small extent.

Just a common observation. It takes a pretty endless stream of "how smart you are!" for "you idiot" to seem kind of verboten and neat rather than painful.

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So it's part of the fantasy. Smart people like to be called stupid, nice people like to be called a bitch, manly men like to have their masculinity called into question, and un-promisicuous people like to be called slut?

Netzach said:

Everyone I've ever met who thought it hot being called a brainless cow or a stupid bitch, male or female, was a super duper academic high achiever with a good sense of humor about their insecurities and a history of overcoming insecurities to large or small extent.

Just a common observation. It takes a pretty endless stream of "how smart you are!" for "you idiot" to seem kind of verboten and neat rather than painful.

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Guilty.

graceanne said:

So it's part of the fantasy. Smart people like to be called stupid, nice people like to be called a bitch, manly men like to have their masculinity called into question, and un-promisicuous people like to be called slut?

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And guilty.

The flip side of that coin is that I always look for someone equally secure with an equal sense of humor to objectify and/or humiliate. Playing the condescending bitch is a great afternoon's entertainment for me, but the other person's gotta be cool with it, too.

i guess you could say i'm into humiliation, i don't mind being called slut, whore, bitch by either my Dom or my husband (no, they are not the same). but my Sir makes it a point when he calls me a degrading name to call me HIS slut, HIS whore etc., not just A slut... he will say "you're not just A whore, you're MY whore". he has called me his 3 holed whore before, kind of liked it. hubby calls me names too when he's disciplining me, it doesn't have quite the impact, i think it's because i have this "normal" life with him and it makes it too real. like when Sir says it though

I am a newbie here and, too, have not read all the posts above but humiliation of the sub-in-training was a basic tool for us.
I know we differed from some, many, trainers in that we were not much into inflicting pain, except as an arousal tool but, rather, raising the sub to intense pleasure.
We are isolated here. We had a rail in the front garden over which we would put the naked woman, legs well opened, tits hanging. Staff or we passing by looked and touched. Neophytes would stand and cover when they heard somebody coming, would be lightly punished. Depending on the woman's degree of submission, the time taken before she would remain over the rail and accept anything done to her ranged from 6 days to 17.
Very few did not lubricate after 3 days.
Well used humiliation is a great source of arousal for a submissive, woman or man.

myinnerslut said:

after some more thought, i realized the thing that humiliates me the most is admitting that i like being you used, that i want to be hurt untill i cry, that i crave being treated like someones toy, a pet, not quiet my own person. the most humiliating thing is to admit im not being forced and i am seeking this out. to have to ask for what i want explicitly, instead of hiding behind a disguise of innocence. to have nobody and no situation to blame my arousal on. that is the most humiliating of all.

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That has to be one of the best things i've read on this forum.

myinnerslut, That is a very interesting post in that you tell yourself that you 'are not being forced'.
You will know from your reading that many subs, perhaps most, submit to whatever is required of them with the thought that they are not at fault, that they are but obeying.
When a sub, particularly an younger woman, was brought to us for initial training and breaking, frequently we would have a trained woman confide to her that submission was good, that nothing she did was her fault, that the deeper into her yearnings she went her arousal and pleasure would be the greater.
A couple of nights with the trained woman, with hugs, kisses, reassurances, some hesitant cums at first , left the neophyte readied.
Are you telling us that this method would not have been the best to use had we you, please? We shall learn from your answer.