Lien_Geller's Story Review Thread.

Marilyn Chambers Comes to Roanoke

Lien, out of curiosity, have you ever seen the American movie "Field of Dreams," which swingerjoe was paying homage to in this story?

I have seen it several times, so when I read the story initially, I was connecting the story scenes to the movie scenes. It occurs to me that you've never seen the movie, though, since it came out in 1989 and, though it has had lasting appeal in the US, it probably doesn't translate as well outside.
 
I've already thanked Lien privately, but I'd like to thank him publicly as well for the time and consideration he put into his review. Stlgoddess, you made an excellent point. I know nothing of Lien's background, but it's possible he's not familiar with Field of Dreams. If that's the case, then I imagine he thinks I'm much more creative than I really am! :)

Just to give a little background to explain this story, I've been fascinated by the ongoing "war" between the so-called "cuckolds" and the so-called "burn-the-bitch" factions in the Loving Wives section since the day I first discovered this site. Both sides present an extreme viewpoint on the issue of "cheating wives."

This story was meant to showcase a typical "BTB" reader who shows zero tolerance for his unfaithful wife, and makes an impulsive decision that is generally advocated by that group. He ends up lonely and miserable as a result, and through a series of implausible events, encounters men who represent both extremes of the LW "war."

In the end, he gets a second chance, and opts for a healthier middle ground: communication. I leave it open to the reader's imagination whether or not he reconciles with his wife. I also leave it open to interpretation whether the entire story was a dream, or a delusion, or whether he really did build a portal to another time dimension in his basement.

I included many references to LW readers in the story, including authors with the user names "Carvohi", "Iron Dragon", "Slirpuff", "Mustang88LX", etc.. Even the main character's name is based on a famous/infamous LW reader and author, "Harry from VA." And the reason why that particular line of dialog seemed out of place was that I tried to be too "cute" and wedge in two more references to LW commentators: "betrayedbylove" and "cantabidebyit."

I acknowledge that I probably got too "cute" for my own good and alienated some readers that aren't familiar with those authors. I also accept that the speech by Adam Phillips was a little long-winded and slowed the story's pace. If I were to rewrite this story, I would drastically edit that portion.

Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking with it! (Unless I rewrite and resubmit it!) Thanks again to Lien for his thoughtful review.
 
A Stringed Instrument

Here's Bramblethorn's A Stringed Instrument. Now here's what I thought of it! Also, from the next paragraph onwards I was reviewing as I was reading. I came back here after finishing to say that Bramblethorn did a few things in this story that touched on some pet peeves of mine. I make relatively big deals out of them and hope I explain why, but on reflection I think I've made this story sound about 50x as bad as it is. In fact, it's actually pretty good! That being said, on with the critical beatdown. ^_^

Alright, the first thing I see is that this is apparently a "slow-moving talky introspective story" in your author's note there. Argh! Ok, I'm not trying to be a dick here (though I know I have a natural talent for it without effort), but that annoys me. I see that and my mind says: "Here is a story that will bore you to tears but if you don't like that then I'll just pretentiously say you can't appreciate the finer things if you complain about it." I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't mind stories that have a slower pace but this is a sex story site! A lot of people are browsing around looking to wiggle the joystick or double-click the mouse for an hour. It's ok to let them know if your story is going to be a bit slower paced or if it's really not a stroker (in fact I've done that myself), but your author's note there just feels like your looking down your nose at me. Not off to a good start!

Again, I'm sorry to make a big deal about this but it's a pet peeve of mine on the site. Your little note isn't by far the worst I've seen in this respect but it's there.

Alright, let's get on with the actual thing you want me to review. I'm going to take your first paragraph:

"By the time I found the place I was pretty sure going to the work Christmas party had been a bad idea. If there's one thing worse than me alone at Christmas, it's me alone at Christmas in the middle of a crowd; after five months at R. J. Churchill Realtors, working as jack-of-all-trades IT support in our main office in Melbourne, I was well aware that I was the odd one out."

...and I'm going to give it the Lien treatment:

"Do you know what's worse than being at home alone during the holiday season? Being stuffed into a room full of people you couldn't care less about at the annual office Christmas party. I knew the whole thing was a bad idea when I first laid eyes on the place. Here was a whole business full of people who only knew me as the magic tech-fairy that appeared whenever their computer died. In case you don't know, that means they were an entire crowd full of people who's usual conversation starter was:

"Hey, remember when my laptop broke and you told me to turn it off and on again?"

If you were wondering, it gets old after the 50th time. It gets fucking unbearable after the 211th."


Ok, just let's pause a moment and explain what I tried to do there. I've said before that the best first lines in any story always pose a question to the reader. They don't have to be a question, but they should always set up something that immediately needs an answer. Here, I've not read anything beyond your first paragraph yet so I don't know anything about your story that needs answering and instead I decided to opt for a direct question instead. This keeps the reader motivated to keep going on to the next line. This does what you were trying to do in establishing the contrast of being alone and being alone in front of a crowd and I think does it more smoothly and directly.

It also addresses the reader directly and gives them something they can probably relate to. Again, you were doing part of that already, but I think it gives it greater impact. It makes them think "Yeah, I know how she feels," and all of a sudden: Poof! Empathy, bitches!

Then, instead of giving the reader her resume I go on to give them something that might make them laugh. I do this by lifting a joke directly from the I.T. crowd because I save all my best material for my own work. (Because being funny is fucking hard, ok!?)

The thing is that the addition of a little humour there again gives the reader more to know about the character. I don't need to know that she works in Melbourne or what company she works for in the first paragraph. I either need a direct plot hook, or I need to start finding the character compelling. If you're very clever, you'll do both.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the point of the first paragraph is NOT to set up the story. It can do that, sure. What it should definitely be doing is... ahem... just a sec...

*Stands up, walks out of the forum. After several minutes Lien re-emerges with a 30ft high mega-phone and screams into the receiver.*

...MAKE ME WANT TO READ THE NEXT ONE!

Ok, enough with that. I've already babbled on more than I sometimes do for an entire review and I'm only on the second paragraph here.

Alright, another potential turn off was that the next few paragraphs are all a trip down memory lane. If you want to give me a character's back story then make sure you've made the character interesting in the first place. I'm not saying your character isn't interesting here, it's just that she hasn't had enough time for us to get to know her before we toddle off into the past. The problem there is that the story tone becomes passive rather than active. You don't fall into the trap that some people do of sounding like a history textbook. It's just that I'm getting a political stance almost right out of the gate (and you've GOT to be careful with those) and I'm getting some history of the character. I'm not really getting to know her as a person though. I'm not getting what she sounds like or what she thinks beyond being gay.

Here's me putting it another way:

"And that was why I was walking three blocks from the train station to the Churchill house one Friday evening shortly before Christmas. I'd even put on a nice shirt and dragged out my one and only skirt (at least it had pockets). Sensible shoes, though."

That's yours and this is what I'd do with it:

"So that's why I found myself walking to the Churchill house one Friday evening shortly before Christmas. Hey, I'd even gone and made an effort! It had meant breaking into my posh wardrobe at home, although I didn't call it that. I usually called it the "wardrobe of things to wear when going to see grandma." I know. I am quite the fashionista, aren't I? I figured that it was the only place in the house where I kept a skirt, and that wasn't full of clothes emblazoned with the emblems of classic rock bands. At least the skirt had pockets, even if it didn't have a much-needed central heating system to keep away the winter chill from my legs. The goose bumps didn't bother me so much, but I'd made a deal with myself. If I wore the skirt I didn't have to wear the high heels in my cupboard. If truth be told they were actually only medium-sized heels, but that didn't stop me falling on my butt every time I wore them. So a set of sensible black pumps finished off the ensemble and carried me off to my doom."

There. In yours you get what she's doing, where she's going and a basic description of what she's wearing. In mine you get more of her personality. Her likes and dislikes. Her clumsy nature. Her avoidance of high-fashion. Things like this give a character a spark of life that yours has been missing so far. It's even more active because it feels like someone talking to the reader directly. I think you're capable of it, but you need to take your time a bit more.

This also happens when she meets Pheobe. There's a lot of talking about what they do, but not a lot of suggestions about who they are. In fact, you oddly go out of your way to state who they aren't. She's not a real estate person, she's not like the others, she wouldn't fit in... Ok, fine, but who are they? Peobe's a musician, why? Also, what's the attraction? What are the positives? Yvonne also feels a little bit more socailly adept than I feel the story has led me to believe so far. If you'd established her having some friends outside of work, that'd be fine. She just comes off as a loner initially, then when she meets a cute girl at a party she's completely fine with it. Why? Hell, I'm pretty outgoing generally and when I meet a cute girl at parties I can barely form sentences.

You fare better with these problems later on when Pheobe's telling Yvonne about her past and being Greek. In fact, the story as a whole picks up the pace there and you get a really great and kinky moment with them in the wardrobe together. The sex itself is good, and given the intensity of the moment the simple "what's being done" form of writing works. Sorry, that sounded horrible. I mean basically what I've said above, that you don't stop to use all your senses and let me know anything but what the character is directly doing. I don't get much of an idea of her mindset, or her mentality, or her feelings. She lacks personality, as I've said. The whole thing seemed quite inconsistent to me with the character I've been introduced to. First she's a reclusive lesbian girl who hardly talks to anyone, and now she's dragging her boss's daughter for jollies in the wardrobe whilst he's only a few feet away? It's not that you haven't set up the plot points or thought about it, but I'm not seeing a character with enough depth to pull off that twist.

Finally then, I'd say that the story started out weak but got a lot better. The idea of sticking it to the boss is always appealing, and doing it in the arms of his loving daughter is even more fun. It's almost a shame that you've set such a slow pace for the story because your writing lacks the depth of giving your characters enough personality to do that successfully. I know that sounds fucking harsh again, but bear in mind that is also a really hard thing to do and I've seen published works that fail spectacularly at it. The story really comes alive when we get to the sexy times!

I'm not saying that Yvonne was bad, but it's just that you spend a lot of time reminiscing with her and not enough time actively doing stuff. I hope I showed you in the example how descriptive writing can give your characters more depth and flavour. Although I'm no expert in that myself, but I hope the attempt was helpful!

Again, sorry if this was overly harsh. Your work isn't shallow, and you've clearly got some great ideas in play. I'd just advise taking a bit more time to flesh them out. Show the impact. If you do it right it doesn't have to slow down the pace of the story, and it doesn't take much more to add that little spark that I think is missing here.

Anyhoo, that's me done with this one and I hope it was ok for you!
 
Thanks for taking the time on this!

Alright, the first thing I see is that this is apparently a "slow-moving talky introspective story" in your author's note there. Argh! Ok, I'm not trying to be a dick here (though I know I have a natural talent for it without effort), but that annoys me. I see that and my mind says: "Here is a story that will bore you to tears but if you don't like that then I'll just pretentiously say you can't appreciate the finer things if you complain about it." I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't mind stories that have a slower pace but this is a sex story site! A lot of people are browsing around looking to wiggle the joystick or double-click the mouse for an hour. It's ok to let them know if your story is going to be a bit slower paced or if it's really not a stroker (in fact I've done that myself), but your author's note there just feels like your looking down your nose at me. Not off to a good start!

Oops, definitely not the intent. Just aiming to help readers judge whether it'd be the sort of thing they'd enjoy. Even with that, I had somebody who read it and then complained about the slow pacing...

Alright, another potential turn off was that the next few paragraphs are all a trip down memory lane. If you want to give me a character's back story then make sure you've made the character interesting in the first place. I'm not saying your character isn't interesting here, it's just that she hasn't had enough time for us to get to know her before we toddle off into the past. The problem there is that the story tone becomes passive rather than active. You don't fall into the trap that some people do of sounding like a history textbook. It's just that I'm getting a political stance almost right out of the gate (and you've GOT to be careful with those) and I'm getting some history of the character. I'm not really getting to know her as a person though. I'm not getting what she sounds like or what she thinks beyond being gay.

Fair point. And yeah, I get twitchy when authors start preaching politics; usually I'd avoid it, but here I felt it was useful in establishing tensions that I was going to use later. That particular bit is partly drawn from a RL incident where a co-worker started making assumptions that I couldn't challenge without outing myself... awkward.

There. In yours you get what she's doing, where she's going and a basic description of what she's wearing. In mine you get more of her personality. Her likes and dislikes. Her clumsy nature. Her avoidance of high-fashion. Things like this give a character a spark of life that yours has been missing so far. It's even more active because it feels like someone talking to the reader directly. I think you're capable of it, but you need to take your time a bit more.

Yeah, I generally aim for a minimalist style; the "my one and only skirt" was intended to convey the same avoidance of femme fashion that you're mentioning there. But it's hard to know whether it's working as intended without feedback like this, especially in a short piece.

Likewise, with emotion, I tend to focus on describing the situations that drive it and the way Yvonne behaves as a result, without much direct description of what she's feeling. Going to have to think about that some more.

This also happens when she meets Pheobe. There's a lot of talking about what they do, but not a lot of suggestions about who they are. In fact, you oddly go out of your way to state who they aren't.

This was actually a deliberate choice. Whether it worked is up to the jury...

The idea there was that being outsiders is what first brings them together; they're hanging out with one another because they don't fit in with the crowd. This also feeds into Yvonne's anger later, when she feels Phoebe has let her down by not standing up for her against the crowd.

Anyhoo, that's me done with this one and I hope it was ok for you!

Thanks a lot! Plenty of food for thought there.
 
Thanks!

Hey Lien,
The criticism is really appreciated and thanks for taking out the time to go through my ramblings. I've posted the edited version (again!) yesterday, taking note of the various criticism I'd received and I'll keep on posting edited versions till it shines or until my keyboard gives up.
There was one teeny weeny anomaly when you said that I'd compared my protagonist to a movie star when actually Michael Lehane Sr. is his dad. I don't know if any goddamn actor exists by that name but if he does, please forgive me.
Anyways, I'm going to start a new sci-fi story with a brand new plot and I hope that by the time I'm finished, you won't abandon this thread because I WILL hound you for some criticism.
 
Desparate Measures: The Fluffer

soflabbwlvr, I just started trying to review your story Desparate Measures: The Fluffer, but it had some things that I consider extreme reluctance in there that completely turned me off. (In case you're wondering, it was when the husband forced his wife to fellate him whilst calling her a fat whore.) Really did not enjoy that and it completely put me off reading it. Not trying to be nasty about this, but it was just a bridge too far for me personally. Since you said that was the story without reluctance in it, I don't think I'll check out the other one you mentioned either.

I'm sorry, but I can't criticise something like that because it's so far away from my personal tastes that the critical goggles get skewed. Hope you understand!
 
Replies

stlgoddessfreya - I have not seen the movie Field of Dreams! Time to expand my DVD collection.

swingerjoe - Wow, that was a lot clevererer(er?) than I noticed then! Like I said, I don't hang around the Loving Wives section, though I have heard tales.

Bramblethorn - Glad to know I was helpful. ^_^ A minimalist style can work, but not that I've ever seen in a traditional story narrative. It works for more rapid-paced things, because it's kind of a rapid reading style too. If you want a slow paced character focused story then you need to flesh out the characters and make them compelling enough that the decreased plot speed isn't a problem. Again, this backfires with Yvonne and Phoebe. I read it that the isolation they both felt was kind of voluntary in a way. You didn't show me they cared about it, so neither did I, and it didn't form the connection between them that you wanted it to. Hopefully you see my point, and if you don't then write how you want anyways!

TheSoulfulBard - D'oh! Sorry about the mistake with his dad. Honestly, I've seen so many author's compare their characters to well-known faces that whenever I see "I kind of look like..." I automatically think that's what they're doing. I am a dumbass. Anyways, if you're writing a sci-fi story I'd be happy to check it out or field any questions you might have.

Ok, I think that's everyone.
 
soflabbwlvr, I just started trying to review your story Desparate Measures: The Fluffer, but it had some things that I consider extreme reluctance in there that completely turned me off. (In case you're wondering, it was when the husband forced his wife to fellate him whilst calling her a fat whore.) Really did not enjoy that and it completely put me off reading it. Not trying to be nasty about this, but it was just a bridge too far for me personally. Since you said that was the story without reluctance in it, I don't think I'll check out the other one you mentioned either.

I'm sorry, but I can't criticise something like that because it's so far away from my personal tastes that the critical goggles get skewed. Hope you understand!

I'm sorry Lien, I forgot that part was in there. That scene wasn't intended to titillate (although some readers appreciated it that way), but rather to show the husband's mindset and the state of their marriage at that moment. It was the only content of that type in the entire story. I apologize for sending you in that direction.

Alternatively, I have a shorter piece that you could review. Foursome In The Mud is free of reluctance themes or incidents. There is an author's note warning about incest, but there is no actual incest in the story. I don't think you will find it offensive.
 
Cool, I shall check that one out then. Although I shall check it out tomorrow. Looooong day. Time to crack open a beer and re-watch Game of Thrones 50 times or so. ^_^
 
I'll also put something for review then. Take your time and let me know what you think.

Sonder
 
Sonder

Right then, my apologies for that brief interlude. Been doing some writing of my own and generally getting shit done. Now I'm back and here's Larascasse's Sonder.

Dude, you are so goth. ^_^

We start out with an extract from "The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows", because who wouldn't want to start out a story that way? Seriously though, Sonder (the word) is an interesting concept. It actually works as a way of making me wonder how it's going to be relevant in the story. I don't normally like quotes or stuff like that to start off stories, but this one works. Or at least I hope it will work as I read on.

Ok, I go on and on in this thread about the importance of the first line and the first paragraph in the story. You spend yours here talking about how your character is falling asleep. Don't. Just don't do that.

Ok, we've had "halcyon", we've had "vicissitudes", and now we're getting "somnolence". Do me a favour and stand up, take your thesaurus, and throw it out the nearest window. It is doing you no favours, my friend. Again, I can understand what you mean in the context that's given, but it's just unnecessary to the story being told. I can already tell that he's tired. You've devoted your entire opening paragraphs to that. It's just that using these words doesn't do anything for the story, and for people who have no fucking clue what you're talking about it breaks immersion. Weighing the risk/reward values there gives an easy answer of: Freaking quit it!

I think I've said this before but your writing here has a real melodramatic feel to it that I find quite tedious to read. This might be because I'm doing this review shortly after getting out of bed, but I just read things like:

"Ah Alyssa!" he exhaled, letting his mind drift to the last time he had spent a meaningful amount of time with her. It was so long ago that he had to think back a long way. He remembered every part of his girlfriend's flawless body. The way she danced from the door of the bedroom all the way to his bed, doing a little pirouette like a ballerina. It was the most sensual sight imaginable."

It's like something out of a bad Tim Burton movie. I read that and my mind just thinks: "Ug."

By the way, in case you haven't noticed yet I am not a morning person.

Alyssa's just too perfect, we haven't really had the chance to meet her yet and you've given me no reason to invest in the main character other than "he's tired". At this point you've lost me as a reader and I'd have gone on to another story.

This problem doesn't do you any favours when he comes home and finds Alyssa humping the guy next door. I get the feeling that this is supposed to be a big impactful moment in the story, but because you haven't done the groundwork in investing me in these characters or immersing me in this world I just don't give a shit. I know he's overworked and tired and she's a perfect little doll that farts rainbows and burps moonbeams. I'm sorry but these aren't characters I can care about, mate.

If you'd have given us a story of how they first met, introduced us to their personality and then dropped the bomb that she's cheating on him then it would be more meaningful. This partly relates to what I've said before about the fact that you can't just have a load of terrible shit happen and then say "the end." (Well, you can, but let's not talk about The Road.) If you're going to show me a betrayal, then show me why that betrayal matters. Show me the good in their relationship rather than the superficial floating and pirouetting through rooms. Then when he comes home to find her bouncing on neighbour-cock... BOOM! You've got the reader invested in him.

Conversely, if you'd have started the story with: "I came home for a long day at work to find the love of my life screwing my neighbour." That, my friend, is a hell of a hook and an immediate way to invest the reader. It's juicy, scandalous and it immediately thrusts us into what's going on.

Ah, ok, I kind of see what you're doing here. One story leading into another, huh? Clever idea. The second story fares better than the first one because we actually get to know the characters through their interactions rather than reminiscing. It's also faster paced and the characters feel more well rounded.

My problem came with knowing it was you writing them. I'm sorry to blurt that out like that, but I know how fond you are of being ridiculously freakin' morbid. :p So the moment I see two cops called in to a crime I know something horrible is going to happen. It's predictable.

That said, this story fared a lot better on investing me in the characters than the last one did. There were just no surprises.

Holy shit! Knock me over with a feather and call me a kangaroo! After that you actually DO have a story with a (sort of) happy ending. Good on you, mate! *Rapturous applause.* The only problem I had with this one was that this ambulance driver saw someone die that day and all she thinks about is how her boyfriend is going to dump her? That's a whole new level of jaded right there, and even borderline obsessive. Again, I think it runs into a problem you have of not fleshing out your characters enough in the stories you tell. So moments like that come off in a different way than you want because you sort of tell me how I should feel rather than letting those feelings grow organically in the story. Still, I'll let you off here since you're working on an obvious limited amount of words.

Tom's story was a little bit creepy. He's not almost a stalker. He pretty much is a stalker. Also, again, I don't understand his motivations. He thinks that saying hello to the girl will get him kicked in the groin? What made him think that? Why is he so worried? I don't get it.

Darlene and Craig fare much better again since, like the cops, they're much more active and we learn about them through conversation which creates the illusion of forward movement in the plot too. Although just as an aside, that can be overdone.

Aaaaand it's time to get that feather back out again. Brace yourself for this. It's a pretty big deal...

I actually liked Laura's story.

I know! Me!? Liking something!? Bwhaaaa!?

It's not perfect, and I could have done without the melodramatic angelizing of Laura towards the end there but the beats of the story itself actually worked for me. It balanced out the bad pretty well whilst not getting too morbid and then showed the good that was coming from her sacrifices. This was very good! Well done! More of this, please!

I also enjoyed the ending and the way it came full-circle. Overall, I think it was an interesting story with some high points that got bogged down a bit by melodrama and some poorly implemented characters. The story pops when we get to see characters interacting rather than being in their heads all the time. Laura's tale was the standout for me by far. You also have a tendency to put a clever twist in your stories or a theme in them to the detriment of plot and character. This was the first story of yours I've read where the clever idea actually worked to the benefit of the story (or stories) being told.

Looking back over the whole thing, I think you also might be trolling me. That thing I said in the beginning about you often using one word in a story that doesn't really have a place there continues here. Are you writing these thinking: "Ha! This will annoy that smarmy fucker!" Because there's only usually one instance of it happening in each of the stories of yours I've read. It's like playing Where's Waldo. ^_^

Anyways, that's me done for this one. Hope it was helpful and I shall now return you to our previously scheduled programming
 
Leo and the Dragon

This is Blind_Justice's story, Leo and the Dragon. These are my thoughts about the first two chapters:

The first thing I get when I start reading here is a weather report. You should probably have started with the lady shouting for her purse. It's a much more effective means of catching the reader's attention. That being said, I did like the use of the scene to introduce Leo as a contrast to your usual city guard. It gave him a real presence in the story and an impactful introduction. He's a sturdy and reliable force against the more lacklustre guardsmen.

I also like how you're delivering exposition in nice bite-sized chunks over the course of the chase rather than giving a huge infodump that many new authors of sci-fi/fantasy tend to do.

Your story does lose some momentum when Shalina is introduced. She's not exactly what I'd call compelling. I liked her backstory and why she was drowning her sorrows, but I suppose I was just looking for more of a spark of life. It might have been nice if she'd been funny (as many people are when they're drunk) or more flirty. Some more teasing the paladin would have made her sexy and we'd have probably liked him more for resisting the urge to bed a lady who wasn't in her right mind.

I also don't think you needed to go back and recall their first meeting. It doesn't really add all that much to the story that hasn't already been said. It also makes the tale lose even more of its forward momentum.

You also haven't really set up any sort of problem or overarching quest for your heroes to tackle. There's no light at the end of the tunnel, if you like. I think this is important in not losing your readers. I'm not talking about the grand evil emperor here, but rather a smaller arc. In The Missing Dragon, we have these: Gregory has to get away from Freddie and his goons, Gregory has to come to terms with where he's landed and outmatch an orc, Gregory has to find out what the hell happened, Gregory has to prove himself as an orc. There's always something that needs to be done. I don't get that sense here and it reads more like a "day in the life of" story.

Erotic stories can put a bit of a twist on this in that they can be about getting the girl or the boy naked and sweaty. It's just that there needs to be a sense of direction even to that. I think by the time the dark elves show up you've lost that direction in this story.

Overall in chapter 1 you start out really well but the wheels start coming off when Shalina shows up. She's a mopey drag on the plot, and after she's introduced it seems a lot like the plot is devoted to a conflict about her vs. the dark elves that I'm just not invested in because I don't really care about her. I just kept thinking of the Paladin: "Dude, just hoof her out the door and go do something cool." Also, where the hell is my dragon? This is Leo and the Dragon, not Leo and the Whiney Elf!

Only the gravest of fools would promise their readers a dragon in their story title and not deliver on it.

In Chapter 2 I pinged on the word "Congrats" as used by the merchant. I think that's a more modern word that sort of sticks out in a medieval fantasy dialogue. That's a relatively small issue though, and I could be wrong about it.

I also get a slight (and I do mean slight) problem with your dialogue seeming too formal. There's a lot of phrases used that sound as if someone's reading a book aloud rather than speaking naturally. This is a hard balance to strike, as I said before in my thread, because you want to strike a balance between clarity and believability. People don't speak the way they write, and there's always going to be a bit of lee-way. I just think that you're veering towards the more formal end of the spectrum in your dialogues. You get away with it at first because Shalina and Leo are an elf and a paladin, so I figure they're quite formal speaking folks! It's just that I noticed some of your more minor characters also talk like that and it's a bit noticeable. Again though, it's not a major issue but I thought I'd flag it for you.

The presence of the dragon in chapter 2 did give the plot some much-needed direction that I certainly appreciated. I also liked the necromancer and the re-emergence of the dark elves. The female characters were much more interesting, though Shalina did drag the plot down whenever she showed up. I'm not saying that you should get rid of her, but we've been told what happened to her and not shown it which is what's making her hard to empathise with. I wouldn't suggest showing what happened to her, but I'd make sure that she gets a little moment to shine rather than just being completely negative all the time. Give me a reason to put up with her!

The sexy fun actually got better this time around too, with more kinky times and a better flair for description.

Anyhoo, I'm going to stop there and I might come back a bit later to review the rest. On the whole I do think you've got a lot of talent, and you do a lot of things right. I just feel that you lose focus a bit too easily and you're not in the same place as I was with a few characters.

Hope that was helpful!
 
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Thank you Lien, there was some good food for thought in there.

One thiing I get from your critique is that I need to flesh out the friendship between Leo and Shilana a lot better so that the reader "gets" why Leo bothers with her (apart from being a paladin who doesn't just "hoof her out of the door").

Regarding the flow: The story was never meant to be chopped up to pieces. Some of my beta readers suggested that I cut it up as not to overwhelm the usual "I don't read more than 3 Lit pages" crowd. So it's no wonder there is no real "arc" in the first chapter, since it's basically the introduction of the characters and nothing more. I wonder if that concern would vanish if I reposted "Leo" as one full story, no chapter breaks.

And yeah, I find dialogue one of the hardest things to pull off. I'm not a native speaker and I get most of my dialogue patterns from movies or books.

Again, thank you for your time.
 
No problemo! If you're looking for dialogue tips then try picking up some comic books. I'm not saying that everything in that medium is pure gold, or that everything would work in a traditional narrative. What I am saying is that writers of comic books often put a lot more effort into dialogue, especially modern comics. In the past you might have a huge text box of exposition, but these days that's considered bad form and most of the story is told through dialogue and the images on the page.

My usual piece of advice to someone with your issue there would be to read the words aloud. Usually if you're being too formal you can tell by it "sounding wrong" but I'm not sure if that would work if you're not a fluent English speaker!

Either way, it's a relatively minor issue in the story. Not something that's wrong so much as something that you could improve upon. You also did a hell of a lot right, so don't be put off!

I personally don't really get the "I don't read more than 3 lit pages" crowd. Then again, I mean it's not like on the internet you could use a bookmark to remember the page you were on... oh wait. I'm usually on the other side of that argument in that if something is less than a page I just won't read it and I tend to avoid anything less than 3 pages since I like my stories slow cooked rather than being all flash and sizzle.

Either way, your tale was a fun read and I might post a continuation of my review if I manage to get back to it. Right now I've got my own stuff to write, cya later!
 
As one of the "the many, many people who need help and advice in writing their stories" I would like to " come to [you for your] sage-like wisdom!"

Would you be able to criticize my story Crutches?

It is in the category of First time, and ended up being the first in a series.

Great job with the detailed reviews!
 
Crutches

Here's what I thunk of astuffedshirt_perv's Crutches.

Jen's introduction in the first two paragraphs really lacks impact. You mention two giant black bruises under her arms in what is a bit of a stroke story. Strokers are fine and all, nothing wrong with a quick one-shot, but they tend to focus on the teasing and the sexy times and the attractive protagonists. Giant underarm bruises? Not hot.

I've also talked here about active and passive voice in stories. Active makes the reader feel like they're taking part in the story whilst passive makes you feel like the interesting thing has already happened and you're playing catch-up. Your second paragraph suffers from this.

I think your main problem here is that you've thought of a sexy situation, but you haven't really fleshed out your characters enough. I know that fleshing out fully realised people is almost impossible without taking on a much larger story, but Jason and Jen just don't really seem all that interesting to me. When it comes to leads for characters you should do 2 things. Think of a flaw, think of a merit and think of a way to show both of them at least once. That is, don't tell me about them, but rather show them in the story. Jen might be a bit of a whiner, but she might also be very clever or very funny. Let us feel how strong Jason is when he lifts her up, and maybe him playing hockey has given him an injury that makes him feel for Jen. Simple enough, but stuff like this adds a lot of flavour and invests us in the characters more.

Jason also comes off a bit douchey in this story with the way that he treats her. If you're going to have some sexy horseplay in your story then allow Jen to get a few advantages of her own. Otherwise it just comes off a bit dickish.

Also, the moment with the condom was a little wierd.

"Do you have a condom?"

"Nah, babe. It's totes cool though, I'm not dirty."

Boy is she trusting. (Also, that isn't something that astuffedshirt_perv actually wrote for anyone else reading this. It's me taking the piss. ;) ) Moreover, she's supposed to be in some serious pain at the start of the story but by the end she's riding him like a crazy woman. That doesn't really make sense to me.

When the sex started there were some good moments of heat, but I couldn't shake the idea that Jason was just forcing himself on a helpless girl. That took a lot of the appeal out for me. It also felt like once the sex started the characters practically morphed into two different people from where they started as. The playful jock becomes captain uber-fuck and the injured girl becomes super-slut. I know this is basically a porn story, but that still breaks immersion and makes me find it moderately unbelievable.

Overall, not my cup of tea but not terrible either. The technical side of the writing was just fine to read, but you need to work more on creating better characters and maintain them throughout the story. Hope that was helpful!
 
I'll throw out another one: Magnum Innominandum

This was something of an experiment for me; I was aiming for a late 19th-century "weird tale" feel, give or take a few more modern elements. If you're familiar with the genre I'd be interested in thoughts on whether I succeeded in that, as well as general criticism.
 
Hi, Lien. I'd also like to add another story to your reading list -- if time allows, and the motivation exists. It is called "Cocksucking Competition", which I fully realize is a terrible title. Naming things (stories, my user name, etc.) is among my greatest flaws, which is why I had my wife name our children.

Anyway, like the other story of mine that you reviewed, this one is a tribute to two classic American-made movies. This one, however, is a little more subtle in its form of tribute. And unlike my other story, there is no underlying message that I was trying to convey. It is simply a fun story meant to be entertaining.

I broke it up into three parts:

http://www.literotica.com/s/cocksucking-competition-ch-01
http://www.literotica.com/s/cocksucking-competition-ch-02
http://www.literotica.com/s/cocksucking-competition-ch-03

Thanks!
 
Thanks for the review! I knew the opening was weak. I really appreciate you taking the time. Wish there was something I could do in return!

A few comments on your comments:

>Jason also comes off a bit douchey in this story with the way that he treats her.

I know, right? Jason is supposed to be a wolf who dons sheeps clothing at the start to get in with her. A few readers have commented on how nice Jason was...!

>Also, the moment with the condom was a little wierd...Boy is she trusting.

There is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that college students, inexplicably, continue to engage in unprotected sex. How does that happen? This was my take on how it might happen. Heat of the moment.

Thanks again!
 
You know what's better than this story?

www.rubmaps.com. Seriously, I went to a parlor, opened literotica on my phone, and read it while I was getting jerked off, with prostate stimulation. God, it was amazing. Definitely would do it again.
 
You seem to be harsh but fair, which is what I'm looking for. General pointers/etc are mainly what I'm looking for but any constructive criticism would be very welcome.

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-league-s1e2-vaginal-hubris is my first story. Although reviewing any of mine would be helpful. It is a Celebrity story based around The League, although for the most part what it is based on I tried to make mostly irrelevant.It contains minor reluctance I would say, but very minor I tried to downplay it as much as I could.
 
Magnum Innominandum

Wow, better catch up on these hadn't I?

This is Bramblethorn's Magnum Innominandum.

(Sidenote: Remember that I write these reviews as I read the story rather than reading the whole thing and then writing the review. This is partly so it stays fresh in my mind and partly to give you a more raw reaction as I read. If I think anything else is worth mentioning at the end of the story then I usually conclude with it. Just reminding you about that because it really does apply to this review.)

You've done it again with the crappy author's note! I'm aware that you're just trying to forewarn people about something that might not be to their tastes. It's just that you're writing on an erotic story website in the erotic horror subsection and your author's note there tells me that you aren't really bothered about much in the way of horror or sex. So why the fuck would Joe Reader who's presumably browsing that section for some sexy scares want to read on? You mention two author's I've never heard of, and I'm a bit of a fan of the horror genre myself so it's not like I have no basis of knowledge in that area.

If you're going to have an author's note along these lines then I'd only include any other genres that you might have dabbled in that might put people off. Don't go around saying that your story has a slow pace or that there isn't really much of the things people are likely to want in it. Other than being directly off-putting, it's also indirectly telling me that you don't seem all that confident with your work. As a reader, I honestly couldn't give a shit about the pace or the content of sex or whatever else you want to "warn" me about. I just want a good entertaining story to sit and read. The only exception to that is if there's no sex in the story at all in which case it should be in the non-erotic section.

Sorry for being so on top of you about this, but seeing author's notes that read like that sometimes just feels like the writer is starting off by shooting themselves in the foot. Either get rid of it and let your story stand on its own or stop doing what sounds a lot like making excuses.

Ok, let's get on with it then. I really like your opening section. You use the newspaper article well enough to both describe the woman and to set a lot of questions going in my head. Who is she? Why is she important? Oh, and obviously: What the hell happened to her? It's a very good start that really makes me want to read on. It's also interesting because there's no real initial "hook" like I'm always ranting on about here but rather a short and slowly built-up mystery to introduce the story and set up an air of eeriness. Nicely done!

The meeting of Josephine and Karin was well handled too. There's quite a classical writing style at play here that I'm not overjoyed to read, but I imagine it's an homage to the works that you were inspired by. Plus, you cut out a lot of the BS that is often found in classical literature and keep focus on the story. It also helps that the dialogue is used for their introduction. There's no 16 paragraphs of looking at the woman and sizing each other up whilst dumping a shitload of exposition. Just a conversation between strangers, and getting to relive Josephine's adventure through the dialogue rather than an expo-dump was very effective.

I'm not sure the transition from third person to first person works as smoothly as it could. It sort of feels like it's broken off mid-conversation and then we get the shift. It's not a huge issue, but just another line to say that she began her story or something like that would have helped me avoid a slight break in immersion.

What follows is a recollection that really suffers a lot from feeling like I'm being told about a lot of stuff that's in the past. It's kind of like an exposition dump. The story of Ruth is actually quite compelling, but it doesn't feel like the story is moving along at all during this interval. It's like, I've got this mystery woman in the present who's been caught in a snowstorm and met another mysterious stranger... ooh! what's going to happen? No, wait, let's go back to talk about an old tutor for a while and lose a lot of the story momentum that you did really well to set up.

It's more of a pacing issue than anything else but its something I thought I'd flag up. It's certainly not that Ruth's story is bad, it's just that it reads a lot like a historical document than an active story.

What you're doing exceptionally well here, however, is building up the character of Josephine. She feels very human and her interactions with Ruth come across as very genuine and appropriate to the period. Nicely done, cuz that's fucking hard to pull off properly. I just wish it was framed a little differently.

Hmmmm.... as I read on I do confess I'm adapting well to the shift in perspective. I like that there's less background as the story continues and more of an air of mystery about Ruth's research. You also build up the connection between Ruth and Josephine very well indeed.

I really liked the scene in the speakeasy, you build up the tension very well and understand that horror isn't something jumping out and shouting: boo! It's the unknowable, that's stood behind you, with very sharp teeth. Josephine's hallucinogenic adventure was great in this respect, since I never knew what was coming next!

The scene in which Ruth and Josephine finally come out to each other was a master class in build-up vs. payoff. Awesome. On it's own it would have come across as ridiculously melodramatic and over the top, but because you've really put the work into these characters that culmination works brilliantly. Ruth's disappearance thereafter is almost gut wrenching, and you handle Josephine's reaction very well. Life goes on, but it's just a bit emptier.

I liked the shift over to the tragic ending, and really enjoyed the story overall. I wasn't quite sure what went on at the end there, but I'm also not quite sure I'm supposed to and that actually works for me.

Overall, I did see a few somewhat modern turns of phrase that were a bit out of place with the classical form of the narrative here and there. They weren't big issues though. I do think that this story should have been categorized as non-erotic with an author's note telling the reader it has a lovecraftian/horror focus rather than being put into erotic horror and telling me it has no sex or scares.

Still, I very much liked this story and you got an extra 5* rating on your score. I was also seriously fucking impressed by all the research you must have done on it, and the clear love of the mythology behind it. You interwove that into the tale very well on the whole without crawling up your own ass about it in the way I've seen a lot of pro's do. Now, if you'll excuse me I'm going to go watch something more cheerful. ;)
 
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Woo, thanks for this!

You've done it again with the crappy author's note! I'm aware that you're just trying to forewarn people about something that might not be to their tastes. It's just that you're writing on an erotic story website in the erotic horror subsection and your author's note there tells me that you aren't really bothered about much in the way of horror or sex. So why the fuck would Joe Reader who's presumably browsing that section for some sexy scares want to read on? You mention two author's I've never heard of, and I'm a bit of a fan of the horror genre myself so it's not like I have no basis of knowledge in that area... Other than being directly off-putting, it's also indirectly telling me that you don't seem all that confident with your work.

Yeah, when I nominated this one I knew you'd have words to say about that note :)

Your comment about lack of confidence is true enough. This is one I really wanted to get right; the heart of it came to me in a dream, with a really powerful sense of emotion. It took me a couple of years of incubation and then several months to hammer it out before I felt like I'd captured that feeling. So I was feeling protective of it and paranoid about readers getting cranky about something that might not be what they were expecting. I should probably have more faith in readers, and also remind myself that there aren't a lot of people looking for stroke fodder in EH in the first place. If I'm wrong about that, I don't want to know.

FWIW, if you're a fan of the Lovecraftian end of the genre, Blackwood and Chambers are worth a look, at least for an idea of where HPL was coming from. He was a big fan of both; works like "The Willows" and "The King in Yellow" had a huge influence on his writing, and both get glowing mentions in his big essay on horror fiction.

The meeting of Josephine and Karin was well handled too. There's quite a classical writing style at play here that I'm not overjoyed to read, but I imagine it's an homage to the works that you were inspired by. Plus, you cut out a lot of the BS that is often found in classical literature and keep focus on the story. It also helps that the dialogue is used for their introduction. There's no 16 paragraphs of looking at the woman and sizing each other up whilst dumping a shitload of exposition. Just a conversation between strangers, and getting to relive Josephine's adventure through the dialogue rather than an expo-dump was very effective.

As you've suggested, the style here (and in the matching bookend) was partly homage. But it was also a tactical decision - I was trying to pull off some sleight-of-hand here, and the focus on dialogue let me conceal certain information without being too obvious about it.

What follows is a recollection that really suffers a lot from feeling like I'm being told about a lot of stuff that's in the past. It's kind of like an exposition dump. The story of Ruth is actually quite compelling, but it doesn't feel like the story is moving along at all during this interval. It's like, I've got this mystery woman in the present who's been caught in a snowstorm and met another mysterious stranger... ooh! what's going to happen? No, wait, let's go back to talk about an old tutor for a while and lose a lot of the story momentum that you did really well to set up.

This is one of the things I find hard in writing: gauging how it's going to be received by somebody who DOESN'T know how it's going to turn out. In hindsight your reaction makes perfect sense and I completely failed to anticipate it.

The Ruth-and-Josephine storyline was always intended as the heart of the story, with Karin showing up very near the end (chronologically, that is). I decided to use a double-flashback structure because Karin makes a handy opportunity for Josephine to tell the story in her own voice, and because I wanted to play with symmetry - even within the central section there's some symmetry/antisymmetry going on.

But if you're just reading it from start to finish, yeah, I can (now) totally see why you would have been expecting the action to move forward from the meeting with Karin, and sitting there thinking "why is this back-story taking so long?"

I wonder if I'd have done better to flag the structure in some way, perhaps by labelling Karin's intro scene as a second prologue, or by having Josephine say something like "it's a long story". Anyway, this is really useful feedback; next time I'm messing with non-linear storylines I'll have to think more carefully about where the reader is expecting the story to be.

I liked the shift over to the tragic ending, and really enjoyed the story overall. I wasn't quite sure what went on at the end there, but I'm also not quite sure I'm supposed to and that actually works for me.

I get the impression the Karin subplot came out a lot more cryptic than I intended. I deliberately obfuscated some of what was happening there, but there are clues along the way and especially at the very end. So far the only person I know of who's put them together is my partner, who's been beta-ing for me since forever.

A hint, ROT-13'ed: Rirelguvat Xneva gryyf Wbfrcuvar vf gehr, ohg ybbx irel pnershyyl ng jung fur qbrf naq qbrfa'g fnl, ubj fur vf naq vfa'g qrfpevorq.

Outright spoiler: Gur svany arjfcncre negvpyr tvirf njnl rknpgyl jung Xneva vf.

Overall, I did see a few somewhat modern turns of phrase that were a bit out of place with the classical form of the narrative here and there. They weren't big issues though. I do think that this story should have been categorized as non-erotic with an author's note telling the reader it has a lovecraftian/horror focus rather than being put into erotic horror and telling me it has no sex or scares.

I had a lot of difficulty deciding on categorisation for this one. I considered putting it in NE; it only has about two paragraphs of sexual description per se and they're not very explicit.

But then, the story is largely is about desire and what it makes foolish people do. To me that's a form of erotica, even if the physical expression isn't detailed, and it's closely linked to the horror elements of the story. So I went with EH as something that felt like a marginally better fit.

Now, if you'll excuse me I'm going to go watch something more cheerful. ;)

That shouldn't be hard ;-) Thanks again for the kind words and all the commentary!
 
I'm working on Chapter 6 of this novelette and I am going to finish it because I need to find out what happens.

The initial low rating is troublesome though. I usually get mid-fours even on rough drafts off the top of my head.

Maybe it went into the wrong category.

Maybe it's because the characters are not likeable enough. Hell, even I didn't like them at the end of the first chapter.

Maybe it's because there's no graphic sex.

Maybe it's because there are two or three trolls who are stalking me and trying to sabotage everything I do, and they seem to get there first, while people who do enjoy my stuff don't bother to vote.

I did spend some time editing it myself and also had help from Hypoxia.

I would appreciate your opinion. This chapter is not long and that may be a problem too. Possibly I should have posted Chapters 1 and 2 simultaneously.


www.literotica.com/s/honey-im-home-19
 
P.S.: Feel free to criticize publicly. I'm not too proud to expose myself.
 
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