Request for feedback on fantasy story

Hi LateNight =) I read your first chapter in Lien's thread; sci fi/fantasy is my genre of choice for reading and when I write non-erotica. I didn't comment there because I wasn't sure if it was okay to do so on another reviewer's thread. I have some comments on Chapter 1, and I hope to have time to read Chapter 2 this weekend.
 
Sure thing :cattail:

First things first, here are my thoughts on Chapter 1. This is my third read through this chapter, so I’m going to skip around a bit.

I’m not sure how I feel about a cast of characters/list of information right up front. It seems like it spells out too much information for the reader, dumbs it down a bit. I prefer to find out about the characters, setting, culture, and artifacts naturally, during the course of the story, discover the world as I read it. I could see a list like this as maybe an appendix to the book, something the readers could use as a mini-encyclopedia to look things up if they want more info or don’t fully understand.

I’m wondering if the setting is totally fantasy, or on Earth, or on an alternate version of Earth. Sindbad is a character from Arabian Nights – is this supposed to be the same Sindbad character? Eshu is an African trickster god, also associated with Santeria, which is Afro-Cuban. Hermes is the name of a Greek god. “Infidel” is 14th century European, used by the three monotheistic religions to refer to non-believers. “Dakini” is Sanskrit, and they are vengeful spirits in Hinduism or Buddhism. Khalid is Arabic, Jahalia is Indonesian. You mention a dupatta (Indian or South Asian), a katana (Japan), a naga (Sanskrit) and later use the terms “brassiere” and “derriere” which are French. Gomorrah and Salome are from the Bible. This is confusing, unless this cultural mash-up is intentional?

Where in the world are we? And for all of these recognizable words (I’m a world religions/mythology geek, but I think a lot of readers would recognize many of those words), are these supposed to be the characters, things, and places we have read about before, or are they totally different?

Since there are belly dancers, sand, it’s a trading city, and we have a few Arabic-flavored references (like the pre-Islamic goddess Manat), I imagine sort of a fantasy-medieval Middle East, and that could account at least somewhat for the cultural intersection. I enjoy that that backdrop, and have written stories in a similar setting, so I can picture it.

I like the sinister little mention of the noticeable rash on the dancer, and Hermes thinking it might be too late for him. If some sort of plague is part of the story, this is a good way to introduce the idea. And the mention of food becoming scarce is another good foreshadowing.

The conversation between Sindbad and Hermes gives some solid, important, information. The language is uneven. Some seems stilted and formal, some seems like natural, casual speech between friends. Some of it sounds like modern speech, which is a bit jarring and takes the reader out of the fantasy setting – “he’s a great guy to hang out with” a “drinking buddy”, up to “shenanigans” sort of sounds like someone’s college roommate named Jason. As another reviewer mentioned, your speech patterns vary if you are speaking to a prospective employer, or a close friend, or a servant, or your grandmother. Pick a style for that character interaction and stick to it.

The introduction of the Dakini is interesting; I am wondering why someone who fights for a living covers her eyes, and how she gets around without a cane. It doesn’t seem practical, but maybe it is some sort of mystical power, that she can walk around and fight without seeing?

I like the duel. The fight scene is well written, and I can see it unfold as it is described. I also like the escape, and the description of the brothel as a maze with clay stairs – those are excellent visuals.

The Dakini’s speech patterns sound formal, as if she is used to reciting memorized legends or religious text. For the most part the style is consistent; this conversation is more believable than the initial one between Hermes and Sindbad.

The description of the Dakini traditions, and her past lives seems to be thought out pretty well, there are some good details provided. Sindbad’s ears perking up at the thought of her being a courtesan in a past life, or knowing the Dance of the Seven Veils seemed a little cheesy, but also likely consistent with his character (I don’t think he said one word about her previously drinking blood and consorting with demons). And I also had to remind myself, “Oh yeah, this is a story being posted on an erotica site. It’s not just a fantasy tale, so there needs to be some sexy sex soon, people will expect that.” I am glad he left the Dakini alone to meditate, and she didn’t suddenly turn into Super Slut, as that would have been totally out of character.

The scene with Aisha seemed a bit gratuitous, but again, this IS erotica. :rolleyes: It seemed that Sindbad couldn’t make up his mind if he even liked her or not, and I didn’t care for that. If she was a childhood friend, they were once as close as sibling, even lovers, and now are friends with benefits, he’s rather disdainful of her – “he didn't feel the need to explain himself to a whore”. She's “pathetic”, everything he despises, but then he strokes her hair lovingly… Mentally, I immediately said, “Well, fuck you too, Sindbad.” I know you were describing the conflict he feels, but it made me like him less as a character. Perhaps that was your intention.

Couple of last comments: “White goo exploded from his dick” seems out of place in this story. Perfectly fine in a modern day story or Penthouse letters, but jarring in a fantasy/historical tale. Maybe find a different way to describe this action.

Sequins seem to rattle a lot in this universe. Maybe they could be spangles, or coins, or Aisha could have a belled anklet, just to avoid repetition.

Naval: relating to ships or the navy. Navel: belly button. Or an orange. ;)

I ran across a couple of other spelling or grammar errors, very minor ones, and can't seem to spot them now. Not that important.

All in all, this is an interesting read, and made me want to read the next chapter. :)
 
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Thank you so much, Katie.

Sure thing :cattail:

Aaaaw! It's a cat.

First things first, here are my thoughts on Chapter 1. This is my third read through this chapter, so I’m going to skip around a bit.

You've read it three times? Thanks, dude!

I’m not sure how I feel about a cast of characters/list of information right up front. It seems like it spells out too much information for the reader, dumbs it down a bit. I prefer to find out about the characters, setting, culture, and artifacts naturally, during the course of the story, discover the world as I read it. I could see a list like this as maybe an appendix to the book, something the readers could use as a mini-encyclopedia to look things up if they want more info or don’t fully understand.

My main influence for this story is a series I watched as a kid. It always started with showcasing the cast. You'll find this in some comics as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaLv6M8CTmQ

Its supposed to be cheesy, but also to make people curious and wish to know more. I don't know how well it works.

I’m wondering if the setting is totally fantasy, or on Earth, or on an alternate version of Earth. Sindbad is a character from Arabian Nights – is this supposed to be the same Sindbad character? Eshu is an African trickster god, also associated with Santeria, which is Afro-Cuban. Hermes is the name of a Greek god. “Infidel” is 14th century European, used by the three monotheistic religions to refer to non-believers. “Dakini” is Sanskrit, and they are vengeful spirits in Hinduism or Buddhism. Khalid is Arabic, Jahalia is Indonesian. You mention a dupatta (Indian or South Asian), a katana (Japan), a naga (Sanskrit) and later use the terms “brassiere” and “derriere” which are French. Gomorrah and Salome are from the Bible. This is confusing, unless this cultural mash-up is intentional?

Where in the world are we? And for all of these recognizable words (I’m a world religions/mythology geek, but I think a lot of readers would recognize many of those words), are these supposed to be the characters, things, and places we have read about before, or are they totally different?

Since there are belly dancers, sand, it’s a trading city, and we have a few Arabic-flavored references (like the pre-Islamic goddess Manat), I imagine sort of a fantasy-medieval Middle East, and that could account at least somewhat for the cultural intersection. I enjoy that that backdrop, and have written stories in a similar setting, so I can picture it.


So nice to be critiqued by another mythology buff. I take names from mythology mainly because its easier than coming up with names of my own and it gives the reader an idea about what to except. The characters and places usually have a few things in common with their namesakes.

The setting is a - very - fictionalised version of Pakistan. As you said, it was an important cultural intersection and a gateway between Europe and the Orient.

The word Jahalia is from Arabic, I believe. It is used to describe places that have not accepted Sharia-law. Rushdie used it as the name for pre-Islamic Mecca in the novel Satanic Verses. I find it comparable to words like Babylon (as opposed to Zion) and Mammon.

In the fairytale, there is a second Sindbad that complains to the God about the unfairness of the world. I guess my Sindbad has more in common with this one, but the plan is that he will eventually become the sailor

I took the name Dakini simply because it sounds cool. The Dakini philosophy has some similarites to Hinduist and Buddhist asceticism. There is a play by Oscar Wilde called Salome, where the title character dances the mysterious dance of the seven veils.

I like the sinister little mention of the noticeable rash on the dancer, and Hermes thinking it might be too late for him. If some sort of plague is part of the story, this is a good way to introduce the idea. And the mention of food becoming scarce is another good foreshadowing.

This is indeed foreshadowing. The title Castle Made of Sand refers to the sermon on the mount where Jesus says that a house build on sand will fall. I try to create a strong sense of impending doom.

The conversation between Sindbad and Hermes gives some solid, important, information. The language is uneven. Some seems stilted and formal, some seems like natural, casual speech between friends. Some of it sounds like modern speech, which is a bit jarring and takes the reader out of the fantasy setting – “he’s a great guy to hang out with” a “drinking buddy”, up to “shenanigans” sort of sounds like someone’s college roommate named Jason. As another reviewer mentioned, your speech patterns vary if you are speaking to a prospective employer, or a close friend, or a servant, or your grandmother. Pick a style for that character interaction and stick to it.

I'll endeavour to do that.

The introduction of the Dakini is interesting; I am wondering why someone who fights for a living covers her eyes, and how she gets around without a cane. It doesn’t seem practical, but maybe it is some sort of mystical power, that she can walk around and fight without seeing?

I think this is quite a common trope. Close your eyes, Luke. Use the force.[/B] It's supposed to connect with the Hindu belief of a veil that confuses the senses - maya.

I like the duel. The fight scene is well written, and I can see it unfold as it is described. I also like the escape, and the description of the brothel as a maze with clay stairs – those are excellent visuals.

Thanks!

The description of the Dakini traditions, and her past lives seems to be thought out pretty well, there are some good details provided. Sindbad’s ears perking up at the thought of her being a courtesan in a past life, or knowing the Dance of the Seven Veils seemed a little cheesy, but also likely consistent with his character (I don’t think he said one word about her previously drinking blood and consorting with demons). And I also had to remind myself, “Oh yeah, this is a story being posted on an erotica site. It’s not just a fantasy tale, so there needs to be some sexy sex soon, people will expect that.” I am glad he left the Dakini alone to meditate, and she didn’t suddenly turn into Super Slut, as that would have been totally out of character.

I'm not afraid of the story being cheesy, as long as it doesn't make it less enjoyable.

The Dakini will have a character arc, but she will not turn into a "super slut."

The scene with Aisha seemed a bit gratuitous, but again, this IS erotica. :rolleyes: It seemed that Sindbad couldn’t make up his mind if he even liked her or not, and I didn’t care for that. If she was a childhood friend, they were once as close as sibling, even lovers, and now are friends with benefits, he’s rather disdainful of her – “he didn't feel the need to explain himself to a whore”. She's “pathetic”, everything he despises, but then he strokes her hair lovingly… Mentally, I immediately said, “Well, fuck you too, Sindbad.” I know you were describing the conflict he feels, but it made me like him less as a character. Perhaps that was your intention.

Did I intend to make you like Sindbad less? sooooort of. My intention is to make Sindbad a somewhat unlikeable character, that is still very human. The relationship between Sindbad and Aisha is complicated and I'm not sure I communicated it well enough in this first chapter.

Sindbad is angry at Aisha because 1) He loved her and she left him. Therefore he feels betrayed. 2) She betrayed herself by becoming a prostitute. He feels she compromised her integrity for security. Sindbad sees himself as being "authentic" and "free."

Sindbad is emotionally immature. His reactions are mostly instinctual.

Sequins seem to rattle a lot in this universe. Maybe they could be spangles, or coins, or Aisha could have a belled anklet, just to avoid repetition.

It almost seems like someone has a fetish.

Naval: relating to ships or the navy. Navel: belly button. Or an orange. ;)

Ups!

All in all, this is an interesting read, and made me want to read the next chapter. :)

Yay. I'd love to hear your words on that. I think the second chapter is more ambitious, but not sure if its better.

Peace and love!
 
Hi again, Late Night :cattail: I read your second chapter this weekend, and I’m going through it again, so here’s my review on my second reading.

Again, the listing as the intro – I understand now you are trying to mimic the style of the old adventure movies or serials, but to most readers, I think it’s coming across as an info dump. I’m not sure how to create the “feel” you want – maybe less direct info, more mystery, so the readers will be eager to find out more about these people and places?

The rape threat against Enyo could have been executed better. We start with people screaming and shouting at her, and they are all nameless and faceless, with no descriptions, just five angry men chasing her down an alley. One suggests rape, and the others are reluctant but then suddenly decide to join in? This would benefit from rearranging a few sentences, creating a little bit of tension/escalation, and giving a little information on her pursuers to help the reader picture the scene unfolding. Maybe something like:

A young girl, not yet twenty summers, circled the outskirts of the market. She wore threadbare khaki pants and a thorn (did you mean torn?) tunic, which hung loosely around her slight and slender frame. She was little more than five feet tall, and there was something unnatural about the way she walked, as if she suffered from a stiffness in one of her legs.

Pausing briefly at a fruit cart, she licked her dry lips and gazed longingly at the dates and figs temptingly displayed.

“Move along, girl, unless you have coin.” The portly fruit merchant shooed her as if she were merely a gnat. “Go on, you are scaring away my paying customers!”

The full-bearded wine merchant in the next stall threw back his head and laughed, showing yellow teeth. “What customers, Balor?” Ignoring the fruit merchant’s scowl, he turned his attention to the girl, grinning wickedly and beckoning. “There are other ways to pay; come here, little mouse, let me show you my wares.”

An older man with a long gray beard and brown cleric’s robes sniffed disdainfully, “Casteless slut. Where is your veil?” His voice rose in outrage.

She turned away from the stall, but her path forward was blocked by a younger man dressed in fine linen with heavy gold rings on his fingers and in his ears. “We don't accept your kind in the Merchant's Quarter," he said menacingly. “Just looking for trouble, aren’t you?”

Finding herself surrounded, her only way of escape was the alley behind her. She tried to outrun the bullies, but the limp in her right leg impeded her and it didn't take long for her pursuers to catch up. The wine merchant grabbed her arms and held her fast; his beard was scratchy on her cheek as he chuckled evilly in her ear. She tried to struggle, but there was no strength in her for a fight.


I’m not saying you should rewrite it that way, it’s just an example. It’s longer, but more descriptive, more visual, and the tension and animosity build. It establishes that these men are jerks and kind of deserve to be robbed. And just a side note: it’s important to establish, since there is sexual content involving Enyo later, that she is over eighteen.

Sorry, spent too much time on that scene. Moving on…

I like Jatayu’s character. It’s not realistic that a criminal would volunteer his name. “My name is Jatayu, and by the way, here is a map to our secret hideout and a schedule for when the guards will catch us sleeping and unarmed.” Maybe one of his fellow thieves could use his name. When he throws Enyo to the ground, she could mutter, “Go fuck a donkey, Jatayu,” or something like that.

Enyo arriving at the hideout -- This sentence struck me as kind of odd, “It also meant that Enyo's fellow thieves could party and sodomise each other with impunity.” Strange choice of words. “Party” as a verb is very modern slang. “Sodomize” is typically a negative word, implying religious disapproval, or that it’s a non-consensual act of violence and dominance (e.g. prison rape). Are they gay and Enyo disapproves? Are they attacking each other? Are they hedonists and libertines? Instead of “partying” and “sodomizing”, I might have used, “indulge in drunken revels and all sorts of debauchery” or something that fits the time period of the story.

Orlando speaking to Enyo – “…thousands of people clamped together behind walls…” Did you mean “cramped”?

Good characterization of Jatayu. He is an arrogant, sexist, bastard, and I hope Enyo gets back at him.

Conversation with the Prince of Thieves – I want some kind of visual description of what Enyo sees. All I have is that he is smoking a pipe (marijuana, per the intro), but no picture of him in my head. I was actually surprised to read him described as an “old man” late in the conversation. Interesting character, but he doesn’t care if they rape her? And he gives Jatayu a girl as a present? Misogynist asshole, I write him off. LOL

Circe’s palace – interesting description of her bizarre menagerie – this is a good example of the visual descriptions a reader likes to see. But we have a witch who turns people into animals, and she has a very famous, well-known name. Is she “the” Circe of myth and legend? Does Midas at the door have the deadly golden touch? Still not sure how I feel about the re-use of legendary names.

Circe in the bathtub – good visual descriptions again, I could definitely see Circe in my mind. And she has a very strong personality, pretty well defined. I didn’t care for much of the dialogue – a lot of it seemed stilted and awkward, like the whole discussion about her breasts. I wonder why Circe, a very powerful woman, would test her new employees by having the slight girl humiliate herself and be beaten by Jatayu, especially since she seems to be sexually attracted to Enyo. It might have been more interesting if Circe’s test of submission was for Jatayu to submit to Enyo beating his ass with a belt.

Ghosts of Days Past – you kind of lost me here. A lot of it is a repeat of the events of the first chapter. And the rest of the info is just sort of dumped out for the reader by this ghost or dream woman. Too much backstory is given to us all at once. I’d rather find this stuff out gradually through character interaction, not just a narrator spelling it out for me.

Sindbad and Salome discuss slavery – this was a good conversation, interesting back and forth. It got stilted and awkward at certain points. You might try reading your dialogue out loud, and listen to see if it flows smoothly, or if it’s awkward and clunky. For example, “At least I know they exists. That's a start. I'm practically still a street urchin myself with enough trouble feeding my own damn mouth." But overall, this conversation about the ethics of slavery and punishing sin with death gave a lot of insight into what makes these two characters tick.

The Dakini mentions the Ten Commandments and the Seven Deadly Sins. These are Christian and Jewish concepts, and don’t really fit well in the setting you’ve described.

Birds and Priestesses – this last scene works pretty well. I like the concept of the raven serving as a scout, and that the dakini could satisfy her vows about her unsheathed sword by killing the chicken. Sindbad doesn’t seem to be very loyal or close to his old friends, though – he shows contempt for both Aisha and Enyo, and he isn’t making a very good impression on Salome, either.
 
Thank you so much for you feedback, Katie! Sorry, for not replying earlier. I've come back here several times to see if the title of the post was in bold. I should have checked more carefully.

I can see from your little rewrite that you're a much better writer than me. My focus seems to be on content rather than style and flow. I need to improve.

I have a few counter comments.

1. Most of the criminals in the slums are full-time criminals. They are not upstanding citizens by day and robbers at night. Jahalia is also meant to be a very large city. There is therefore little reason for Jatayu not to reveal his real name. It's not as if the merchant could look his name and address up in the phonebook.

2. There is a second story about Midas where he is cured of his golden touch, but punished with donkey ears.

3. There is a reason why Circe humiliates Enyo and not Jatayu. Something happens to Jatayu afterwards. It is not told explicitly, but there are a few subtle hints.

Thanks so much for all your help. I'm amazed at how much effort you seem to have put into giving me helpful feedback.
 
I stopped reading at the catalog of names. If there are that many and I need a list, eh, sounds too difficult.
 
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