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Sub or brat?

cookiecat said:
She wants you to own her so she can own you and your time.
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I realized very early on that she does not want to take responsibility in life.

She wants me to "own" her so that I "own" all of her responsibilities and problems. So that I have to pay for her. So that I have to pick her clothes out. So that I have to fight her battles. So that I have to fix her car. So that I have to plan her travel. So that etc etc etc
 
I'm stunned. Seriously.

Actions always have a consequence, and if she doesn't like you walking away when she's acting like a ... ahem... brat... then, she should learn not to be a brat. She wants you 'to control' her, but won't submit when you take that control during these discussions, or did I miss something?

Also, 'learning to trust' is bothering me. How long have you been together? Either she trusts you or not... apparently, not, by her words.
 
Oh man...in general (outside of the D/s world)...anxiety issues can severely affect someone. My best friend has had anxiety her whole life and only recently finally saw a doctor about it and is getting some help. Your lady's anxiety could be the root of how she is with you...but just as with any illness, *you* can't cure her...and she won't fully be better until *she* decides to get help, and to make a change.

With the D/s stuff...I'm fairly new to the lifestyle (sadly my hubby doesn't have a dominant bone in his body, and has told me he will never feel comfortable dominating me...but that's a different story for a different day / thread) but my thought would be that if she wishes to be submissive to you, then she should be ecstatic with the attempt you're making to satisfy her desires....and proud of how much you have accomplished, not tear you down. And my thought on the definition of bratty (please tell me if I'm wrong) would be...again...that she'd more go against what you say...or challenge you playfully (IE: you ask her to do something and she maybe says "no"...or challenges you to make her....)...but definitely not tearing you down.

Again...I'm new to this...but I don't see any D/s situation where the sub would tear down the Dom...and maybe she's expecting you to "punish" her somehow for how she's acting...but again I would see it as - *she says something not nice* *you walk away, being a mature adult* *she comes to you and apologizes, and explains she was hoping you would spank her for her naughty tongue* *you explain her words were hateful and hurtful* *she apologizes and asks how she can make it up to you* *fun time ensues*.

Time three....I'm new at all this, and learning...but it sounds to me like until she decides she wants to help herself, and *does* help herself, she's not going to be truly happy with what you're trying to do for her.

And as said before...you sound amazingly sweet and wonderful for attempting to make her desires a reality.

Good luck, and I hope my newbie insight helped :) (and that I didn't somehow step on anyone's toes!)
 
ropebunny87 said:
Oh man...in general (outside of the D/s world)...anxiety issues can severely affect someone. My best friend has had anxiety her whole life and only recently finally saw a doctor about it and is getting some help. Your lady's anxiety could be the root of how she is with you...but just as with any illness, *you* can't cure her...and she won't fully be better until *she* decides to get help, and to make a change.

With the D/s stuff...I'm fairly new to the lifestyle (sadly my hubby doesn't have a dominant bone in his body, and has told me he will never feel comfortable dominating me...but that's a different story for a different day / thread) but my thought would be that if she wishes to be submissive to you, then she should be ecstatic with the attempt you're making to satisfy her desires....and proud of how much you have accomplished, not tear you down. And my thought on the definition of bratty (please tell me if I'm wrong) would be...again...that she'd more go against what you say...or challenge you playfully (IE: you ask her to do something and she maybe says "no"...or challenges you to make her....)...but definitely not tearing you down.

Again...I'm new to this...but I don't see any D/s situation where the sub would tear down the Dom...and maybe she's expecting you to "punish" her somehow for how she's acting...but again I would see it as - *she says something not nice* *you walk away, being a mature adult* *she comes to you and apologizes, and explains she was hoping you would spank her for her naughty tongue* *you explain her words were hateful and hurtful* *she apologizes and asks how she can make it up to you* *fun time ensues*.

Time three....I'm new at all this, and learning...but it sounds to me like until she decides she wants to help herself, and *does* help herself, she's not going to be truly happy with what you're trying to do for her.

And as said before...you sound amazingly sweet and wonderful for attempting to make her desires a reality.

Good luck, and I hope my newbie insight helped :) (and that I didn't somehow step on anyone's toes!)
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You may be new to d/s, but you're not new to relationships. We don't throw out everything we knew about relationships because of d/s. You're spot on.
 
Yay!! That's a perfect way of putting what I was trying to say: everything shouldn't get thrown out...I just wasn't sure if I was understanding the difference of "brat" vs "sub"...terminology makes things wonky...for me to be in a working D/s relationship there would have to be trust, communication, and a certain amount of love/loyalty...and those (in my opinion) are the basic ingredients for any relationship to work.
 
ropebunny87 said:
*you* can't cure her...and she won't fully be better until *she* decides to get help, and to make a change.
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I am not trying to cure her. She is getting help and has been in therapy for many years.

(I like your post - thanks!)
 
Oh! I wasn't insinuating that you *were* trying to...I'm sorry if it came off that way. I just meant it as a generic statement. I also just mean....it sort of sounds like she's leaning on you a lot to curb her self-doubt or anxiety (needing validation all the time...) and that no matter how much you express your feelings for her, it's not going to stick unless she recognizes the good in herself, and recognizes the security of your relationship.

And it's great that she's getting help, but depending on what type of therapist she's going to / what is discussed in therapy may not be getting to the root of the problem...

It's hard to give advice, or fully understand what's going on, as an outsider...all we can do is give advice / our experiences, and offer our support :-/

Sorry you're going through this...
 
So, we have been texting about this today. The last text was her telling me to go fuck someone else. I came home, steered clear of her. She left the house, then came back. Then she texted me that I completely failed by not showing her affection when I came home. She said that a if I was a real Dom, I wouldn't care if she was upset. I would simply demand her. (Mind you, I have three kids at home....)

Her: And(!) it shouldn't matter(!)--if you were Dom! You would do it anyways. You would demand it. You didn't even try. And I was absolutely fine before that

Me: You had just sent me an email to go fuck someone else. I was steering clear. You told me to stop pretending to be Dom. I'm steering clear of that role.
I am happy to talk with you about it. If it gets clear, then I am happy to try again.
For now, you haven't said how we can have a D/S experience.

Her: Whatever, I've heard it all before. I'm good. No. I'm done. Your talk is cheap. Your actions either don't exist, or are weak. I'm not trying anymore... I give you too much knowledge and opportunity-- you don't appreciate or use either. It's pointless.

Her: You'll never understand-- the concept and power of reassurance

Her: No. The way to have a D/S experience is being nice, warm, trustworthy*, secure, affectionate. You do none of that.(once again I'm telling you this.... It's getting old.). I'm taking a bath now. I'm done with this. It's not my job to teach how to be human. I know how to be a sub--with a human(!).... If you desire this--- then do your part and figure it out. I'm busy now
 
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Dude!! She's like my dog who constantly paws at my hand to pet her and if I don't, she either gives me a nip or sulks off to another part of the room. She's never content just to sit and hang out. Its annoying. I can't imagine it from a human.

You have 3 kids at home, too?

Good luck.
 
cookiecat said:
Dude!! She's like my dog who constantly paws at my hand to pet her and if I don't, she either gives me a nip or sulks off to another part of the room. She's never content just to sit and hang out. Its annoying. I can't imagine it from a human.

You have 3 kids at home, too?

Good luck.
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Oh cookiecat...hilariously accurate!!

I'm sorry hooterbif....it just sounds like she's set in her mind that you can't give her what she wants...which it sounds like based off what you've been doing...isn't true.

I'm just so sorry....:-/
 
It's like she just wants to get a rise out of me so that I manhandle her or something.
 
I was wondering about that...a lot of what she's said kind of sounds like she wants you to be more aggressive with her; has she asked that, or given examples of how she might want you to be with her??

Conflicting messages....it sounds like she wants you to be rough with her, but also be loving and supportive, and everything else she's saying you don't do...
 
I bet money as soon as you get rough with her she will find fault with it. But then I'm a cynic. :cool:
 
cookiecat said:
Really?

I think if you manhandled her, she'd give you a look and say fuck off.
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Well, imagine later tonight, I go upstairs and gag her mouth with her panties, put her upside down, put my foot on the back of her neck, jam her face in the pillow, and then ass raped her. What would happen? Her pussy would get soaked. She'd love it.

But, what's the point? How can I keep this up every day?
 
hooterbif said:
Well, imagine later tonight, I go upstairs and gag her mouth with her panties, put her upside down, put my foot on the back of her neck, jam her face in the pillow, and then ass raped her. What would happen? Her pussy would get soaked. She'd love it.

But, what's the point? How can I keep this up every day?
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This is one of my favorite posts in the history of Lit.

What is the point of ass rape if you can't keep it up everyday? One of the great unsolvable mysteries of life, bif.
 
cookiecat said:
I'm just tired thinking about this whole thread. :(
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Well, if it hasn't worn you out yet, there's more!

Her: This is ALL ABOUT YOUR EGO. it has nothing to do with actually wanting to participate in the lifestyle-- it's waaaaaay too much work for you--- involving SOMEONE BESIDES YOU. You aren't capable of being SELFLESS.... Or participating in a situation where YOU are in control--THINKING ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE


I kind of understand the idea that the dom is domming because he wants to feed the sub with what she needs, but I'm not sure that translates into being selfless.....
 
hooterbif said:
Well, if it hasn't worn you out yet, there's more!

Her: This is ALL ABOUT YOUR EGO. it has nothing to do with actually wanting to participate in the lifestyle-- it's waaaaaay too much work for you--- involving SOMEONE BESIDES YOU. You aren't capable of being SELFLESS.... Or participating in a situation where YOU are in control--THINKING ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE


I kind of understand the idea that the dom is domming because he wants to feed the sub with what she needs, but I'm not sure that translates into being selfless.....
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I'm chiming in late to this conversation, but I have been reading and watching this thread.
This last post. Oh man...
So...IMHO part of being submissive is about serving and thinking about your Dom. I think your girl has this a bit on its head. She thinks this whole D/s is all about HER and getting HER needs met exactly the way she wants them all the fucking time right down to you being a mind reader about what she wants and needs and you controlling every stinking little aspect of her life, kinky and otw.
This seems to be an impossible thing for anyone to do. It makes me tired to just think about it. It's unreasonable.
This is still a relationship which means both people still have needs and there has to be a way for BOTH of you to get your needs met.
Dude, you are giving and thinking and providing all kinds of control to her life and salve to her anxiety and affection to her it sounds like...and all you get is lip and back talk and disrespect and a failure to appreciate your efforts.
This is not the way an adult behaves in a relationship. Any relationship.
Brattiness can be a fun element to trigger fun kinky time as prior posters have laid out, but that does not seem to be the pattern here.
I would contend that it is your Gf who seems incapable of thinking about someone else...YOU in particular...and that the very essence of being a sub is loving and thinking about and submitting to your Dom, however the two of you have decided to do that and contributes to kinky fun times together and a functional working day to day life if you are doing D/s 24/7.

Shit. I have to echo Cookie...this just makes me so tired and sad thinking about this situation.

Good luck. :rose:
 
When cascadia and I use "dude" in a post in order to get our point across, you know it's some serious shit. :)
 
cascadiabound said:
Good luck. :rose:
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Well, it seems like we all are on the same page in interpreting this shit.

So, here is what I got today (after her saying "I'm done" in response to our exchange last night).


Me: Promise that you will never say "I'm done" to me again.

Her: I'm acting out bc I need attention daddy😖 I will never say I'm done again

Me: When you find yourself wanting to act out for need of attention, you need to find another outlet besides being a brat to me.

Her: I just want you to love me 😔 I try to distract myself... But I feel hurt and get confused... I'll try harder

Me: Make a list of five things that you can do when you get bratty. It doesn't matter what they are. They do not need to "please" me. They can be anything. Don't do this now. But I want it in an email, not text.

Her: Ok. 🙄

Me: They can be things like: masturbate, put in the big butt plug, write a letter to Daddy about how I want to go to subspace with him. I might assign you some of those or come up with my own.

Her: Yes Daddy


So, how long can I keep this up? By the way, I have a very high pressure job that requires alot of my time.....
 
cascadiabound said:
I'm chiming in late to this conversation, but I have been reading and watching this thread.
This last post. Oh man...
So...IMHO part of being submissive is about serving and thinking about your Dom. I think your girl has this a bit on its head. She thinks this whole D/s is all about HER and getting HER needs met exactly the way she wants them all the fucking time right down to you being a mind reader about what she wants and needs and you controlling every stinking little aspect of her life, kinky and otw.
This seems to be an impossible thing for anyone to do. It makes me tired to just think about it. It's unreasonable.
This is still a relationship which means both people still have needs and there has to be a way for BOTH of you to get your needs met.
Dude, you are giving and thinking and providing all kinds of control to her life and salve to her anxiety and affection to her it sounds like...and all you get is lip and back talk and disrespect and a failure to appreciate your efforts.
This is not the way an adult behaves in a relationship. Any relationship.
Brattiness can be a fun element to trigger fun kinky time as prior posters have laid out, but that does not seem to be the pattern here.
I would contend that it is your Gf who seems incapable of thinking about someone else...YOU in particular...and that the very essence of being a sub is loving and thinking about and submitting to your Dom, however the two of you have decided to do that and contributes to kinky fun times together and a functional working day to day life if you are doing D/s 24/7.

Shit. I have to echo Cookie...this just makes me so tired and sad thinking about this situation.

Good luck. :rose:
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^^^^^^ This!! This to a fucking T!!! You verbalized what my brain's mumbo-jumbo was attempting to say!!
 
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