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Aspiring To Publish - Authors Thread

Last spring I did a lot of research on the question of being published. I looked at Agents, book publishers, self publishers and ebooks. This is what I think -

Self publishing is great if you want a stack of books sitting unsold and unread in your back closet. You pay the money up front for the editing, artwork typesetting, printing and binding and get the whole thing delived to you. Big question - Who do you sell them too? That's a closed loop.

Looking at Agents I just shake my head. If you are a well known person with a book (like Pat Buchanan, Bill Clinton etc) they can see the dollars. Think about it, these people are working on commission. If you ain't known and don't have a track record, they don't want to waste their time on you. Forget agents. When you are in print and selling they will come to you.

Book publishers are pretty hard too. Look at Writer's Market. 70% of the book publishers are looking for "How To...", "Children's" and "Non-Fiction" books. Very few are looking for "Romance" and almost none are looking for "Erotic" fiction. The "Big Houses" like Prentiss will publish 500 books each year. They get 10,000 submissions which are only accepted from Agents. Closed door, guys.

The medium sized publishers will do 100-500 books per year. Same story here - Lots of submissions and lots of competition for only a few books published.

The small publishers tend to be "Specialty Publishers". They are looking for books on Auto Repair, Dieting, Text Books and so on. A few are looking for Sci-Fi and one is looking for Gay Romance/Erotica.

The book publishers aren't easy, but it can be done. I always think of Steven King writing stories for two years before he got on published in a magazine. Then five more years before his first book was published.

E-Publishers is the easiest way to be published. It seems to be the coming wave. However, the market is quite small yet compared to print. They do tend to offer larger commissions, but the number of sales is very small compared to, say, paperbacks.

Just my take on the subject. Disagree if you want.
 
amicus said:
Neonlyte...my apologies...surely.

Don't waste your time or money with traditional, conventional publishers and agents...they are a dying industry and live only off of you, if you contribute.

There may be others here who will confirm what I say, but if not, so what, I offer it anyway.

It was more than thirty years ago that I sent off my first inquiry letter to a publisher, then to an agent. And the history of the results, well, it would not be encouraging to relate.


There has been an earthquake, a techtonic anomaly in the publishing world following the invention of 'Print on Demand' industry, wherein a book can be stored electronically and printed on demand, i.e., purchase. No longer is a publisher required to print and warehouse X number soft cover or hardback books, it can be done overnight in a factory.

The old style of paying fifteen percent to an agent just to 'represent' you, is gone, ancient. The old style of giving your publisher 92% of the profits of your book, you get 8% royalties, they get the rest, is gone, over with.

The free market now rules the publishing industry, as it should.

You can be scammed here too, as you can every where. But regardless, writing your book is only the very first step on the road to a successful work.

Forget all that Neonlyte suggested, just damn forget it and find out what the publishing world is doing today, in your time, not the time of Hemingway and Steinbeck, it just isn't there anymore.

Perfect your work, edit your work, hire someone if you cannot edit, then publish the damned thing and then....then...do the same thing you would hire a publisher to do, market your work if you want widespread distribution. If you want literary recognition, then discover how to obtain it, the information is all online and easy to access.

If you have something to say, then goddamned well say it! Float it here on Literotica and a thousand other sites where you can expose your thoughts, your writings, to the public...use that, build on it, make it better, refine it, all that and more and then pay to E-print the damned thing, buy your ISBN. buy your access to Amazon.com and all the E.search engines and go for it!

But for your own sanity, do not send off snailmail to agents and publishers and wait endless days, weeks and months praying for something to happen, cuz it ain't gonna, less ur name is Brittany Spears and they will rip you off regardless.

Call me an asshole, I could care less, but I learned the hard way, maybe, just maybe, you don't have to.

Amicus...
Click to expand...


If you think it's hard to write a novel; try to get it into the hands of readers all by yourself. Selling it is the hardest part. And unless you have as much interest and talent in selling books as you do in writing them, you'd be a fool to fall into Ami's pit here.

Agents don't just get your book signed with a publisher for their 15 percent and real publishers don't just print your book. (And a real publisher will have your manuscript edited at their own expense and won't be particurlarly impressed that you had to have an edit down at your expense before then. I charge a minimum of $800 for editing an 80,000-word manuscript for a private client--and I work cheaply for private clients. Think about how many self0published books you are going to have to sell to make up not only the production and promotion and distribution costs but an editor's fee as well.)

Of course get an agent and tradtional publisher for you book if you can. If you can't and have to settle for less, lower your expectations drastically as well on who's going to buy the book--and who has to sweat blood to try to sell it. And forget making a meaningful monetary profit altogether.
 
I'm in!

I'll be kinda lurking, or just asking questions at first, till I have something constructive to contribute...
 
I'm in the business of giving publishing advice and have both a book on that in bookstores and a Web site (neither of which I'll identify because they are in my true name)--but if anyone wants to bounce a question on "getting published" off me to compare with whatever else they find in research, feel free to PM me.
 
Jenny_Jackson said:
Last spring I did a lot of research on the question of being published. I looked at Agents, book publishers, self publishers and ebooks. This is what I think -

Self publishing is great if you want a stack of books sitting unsold and unread in your back closet. You pay the money up front for the editing, artwork typesetting, printing and binding and get the whole thing delived to you. Big question - Who do you sell them too? That's a closed loop.

Looking at Agents I just shake my head. If you are a well known person with a book (like Pat Buchanan, Bill Clinton etc) they can see the dollars. Think about it, these people are working on commission. If you ain't known and don't have a track record, they don't want to waste their time on you. Forget agents. When you are in print and selling they will come to you.

Book publishers are pretty hard too. Look at Writer's Market. 70% of the book publishers are looking for "How To...", "Children's" and "Non-Fiction" books. Very few are looking for "Romance" and almost none are looking for "Erotic" fiction. The "Big Houses" like Prentiss will publish 500 books each year. They get 10,000 submissions which are only accepted from Agents. Closed door, guys.

The medium sized publishers will do 100-500 books per year. Same story here - Lots of submissions and lots of competition for only a few books published.

The small publishers tend to be "Specialty Publishers". They are looking for books on Auto Repair, Dieting, Text Books and so on. A few are looking for Sci-Fi and one is looking for Gay Romance/Erotica.

The book publishers aren't easy, but it can be done. I always think of Steven King writing stories for two years before he got on published in a magazine. Then five more years before his first book was published.

E-Publishers is the easiest way to be published. It seems to be the coming wave. However, the market is quite small yet compared to print. They do tend to offer larger commissions, but the number of sales is very small compared to, say, paperbacks.

Just my take on the subject. Disagree if you want.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Jen. I wouldn't disagree.

Writing is possibly the easy part of the process, getting into print publishing is a whole new ball game requiring a high degree of professionalism and bloody-mindedness. This thread is aimed at giving support to those who want to take the print publishing trail - with advice on other routes as and when - such as Imp's excellent piece.

Believe it or not, UK agents are reported to be seeking new writers. The e-publishing 'boom' may be part of the reason, writers finding an easier path through the Internet etc, but that is what is reported. E-Publishing will be the future, I'm quite certain of that, I'm delivering a paper on the subject in February, in Germany, but the e-readers are not yet reader useable and will not be for some time. Some of the developments in train are astounding, I recently saw a potential 3D simulation of a novel environment driven by description in the novel. Whilst this would be an anathema to conventional print readers, it may be the impetus that drives a new and useable wave of e-readers. But this is likely 5 years away.

I'm old fashioned enough to want to see my titles in print, and I'll garner all the help and offer all the advice I can to others wanting to follow that path.
 
Stella_Omega said:
I'm in!

I'll be kinda lurking, or just asking questions at first, till I have something constructive to contribute...
Click to expand...

See... now there you go again... putting yourself down :D

Stella, you have lots to contribute, not least helping berks like me with thier grammar and spellin.

I've added your name to the list.
 
Stella_Omega said:
I'm in!

I'll be kinda lurking, or just asking questions at first, till I have something constructive to contribute...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thread neon.

I'm in Stella's camp. I hope to use this thread to inspire me to get off my butt and write/revise/submit. Maybe I'll even dust off the children's bedtime stories that were rejected years ago and give them another go.

sr71plt said:
I'm in the business of giving publishing advice and have both a book on that in bookstores and a Web site (neither of which I'll identify because they are in my true name)--but if anyone wants to bounce a question on "getting published" off me to compare with whatever else they find in research, feel free to PM me.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not! Do not PM sr!!! Post your questions here so we can all benefit from his and others' knowledge and experience. :)
 
Last edited:
neonlyte said:
I hear you, Amicus.

It is a different approach and it, or a variation of it, may point to the future.

Unfortunately, it is not actively promoted by Booksellers (not in the UK) even though virtually every major bookseller has P.O.D capability. It requires a major bookseller to make terminals available in store to preview P.O.D books with 'next day' delivery service and thus far no one is prepared to make that investment.

Thank you for your comments, perhaps another thread might be useful to discuss the P.O.D future.
Click to expand...


One point. Posters probably should specify whether they are talking U.S. or UK market both in asking and in responding to questions. Because the two markets are vastly different.
 
Last edited:
neonlyte said:
See... now there you go again... putting yourself down :D

Stella, you have lots to contribute, not least helping berks like me with thier grammar and spellin.

I've added your name to the list.
Click to expand...
Okay, then, I'll start mouthing off; :D
And a real publisher will have your manuscript edited at their own expense and won't be particurlarly impressed that you had to have an edit down at your expense before then.
Click to expand...
It's been distressing to see how few "real" publishers do real edits lately. First novels like "Mistress of Spices" read like fanfic, grr!

I called a smaller press once, to complain that a young woman's book of short stories could have benefited from some guidance. They told me that they "didn't want to interfere with the native voice," for crissakes.
My feeling is that, if your editor doesn't give you some grief-- you're not getting the support you need.

But that comes later...
 
I'm interested, but it would have to be a low-key contribution for the moment, on two counts.

1 - I don't have anything novel-length at the moment (at least, not finished, I don't)

2 - while I'm working as a tutor I don't have the time I'd like for writing. Getting (too!) close to the University retirement age, I may not have that 'problem' for much longer, although I'm given to understand that if the module I'm contracted for continues, I can work past my birthday.

I'm open for proof-reading/readability critiques, if anyone needs that. I actually have three short stories in print - on paper! - from Xcite here in the UK, and I'm in the process of setting up my own website, which should help the self-promotion. I also have two shorts with an editor at the moment, one which has been accepted, one as a 'try-it'. More on that when it's concrete. (E-publisher, by the way).

Alex
 
This is a very interesting thread :)

I've been starting to think about trying to get published, but as far as I'm concerned, that goal is still very far away. I don't feel I have enough material, or really anything that is ready for publishing.

But it's good to read about everyone's experiences for future reference, so I'm subscribing.
 
Stella_Omega said:
Okay, then, I'll start mouthing off; :D
It's been distressing to see how few "real" publishers do real edits lately. First novels like "Mistress of Spices" read like fanfic, grr!

I called a smaller press once, to complain that a young woman's book of short stories could have benefited from some guidance. They told me that they "didn't want to interfere with the native voice," for crissakes.
My feeling is that, if your editor doesn't give you some grief-- you're not getting the support you need.

But that comes later...
Click to expand...

I think possibly we just may have different definitions of "real" publisher. I suppose I should have used "traditional" and/or "mainline" instead. Although I'm sure it's difficult to differentiate from the writer's perspective, from where I sit looking at publishers, it's pretty easy to see which are serious about having their books really edited and which just want to say someone they call an editor had the manuscript sitting on their desk for a while.

You can always ask about the credentials of any editor handling your manuscript (and certainly should if you are paying for one yourself). If they have a book/client list, they'll be willing to show it to you. Or an educational background (they do teach this in various graduate schools). Or previous experience in an established publishing house. And, best of all, if they are freelancers (which most book copyeditors now are), if they are members of the Editorial Freelancer Association (anyone can check this out themselves at www.the-efa.org. You can't join this organization without having credentials (and if you are looking for an editor, they have a job board on this site).

Now, in the realm of erotica, most of what you are going to find are minimalist publishers and untrained editors, so you have to look really, really hard--or have really, really low expectations. I'd usually suggest going for the low expectations and just enjoy whatever thrill you can get from that ride.
 
I may have to settle for an untrained editor, at first, but I imagine I'll be giving that editor some training! And I have to say that whatever professionals are going around, aren't much better; "Mistress of Spices" was published by Doubleday, and is considered mainstream.
 
jomar said:
Thanks for the thread neon.

I'm in Stella's camp. I hope to use this thread to inspire me to get off my butt and write/revise/submit. Maybe I'll even dust off the children's bedtime stories that were rejected years ago and give them another go.
Click to expand...
OK... but that is your target. Your name is on the list. Add a 12/0 to your sig (that's an undertaking to contact at least one possible agent/publisher a month - 0 says you haven't started :))so we can see how you progress.


jomar said:
Absolutely not! Do not PM sr!!! Post your questions here so we can all benefit from his and others' knowledge and experience. :)
Click to expand...
Endorsed absolutely. Just make sure sr71 knows you are talking USA or UK markets.
 
Stella_Omega said:
I may have to settle for an untrained editor, at first, but I imagine I'll be giving that editor some training! And I have to say that whatever professionals are going around, aren't much better; "Mistress of Spices" was published by Doubleday, and is considered mainstream.
Click to expand...

A good "another pair of eyes" reader goes most of the way for what you need before starting submissions.
 
I'm in, though I tend to resist setting goals and such. Maybe I need to yield that point. To be honest, my problem is less the submissions process than the product being submitted. I've had several NYC agents along with an e-publisher read and then reject my second novel, a mainstream love story.

Here's the e-pub rejection.

We really do like your story, but unfortunately feel there are some areas that need tightening. The premise is great, but the story meanders too much from past to present, tells much information that could be blended by either well-written flashbacks or possibly dialogue with other characters. There are some pet words (words that are used a lot) that are used VERY heavily ie. then, when, before, and after to convey action and time.

Lastly, there is an overuse of author's voice, noticeable particularly in the prologue, but elsewhere, as well. Author's voice is when the author writes things that the character(s) would have no way of knowing. For example: She stared out of the window oblivious to the kids fighting behind her.

If you are able to restructure this novel to follow a more logical beginning, middle, and ending, plus tighten the prose by rewriting the areas where you uses author's voice and pet words, this would be a great novel. There needs to be less bouncing between various areas and a logical flow and pace. We need more "show" and less "tell", if that makes sense.

I didn't mention all that as some sort of "pity party" but to explain why I'll be concentration more on improving my writing than trying to get published. I will have a couple short stories coming out in print anthologies this spring, and I'll keep submitting, but it won't be my focus.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
Rumple Foreskin said:
...
Here's the e-pub rejection.

We really do like your story, but unfortunately feel there are some areas that need tightening. ...

I didn't mention all that as some sort of "pity party" but to explain why I'll be concentration more on improving my writing than trying to get published. I will have a couple short stories coming out in print anthologies this spring, and I'll keep submitting, but it won't be my focus.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
Click to expand...
Well, that's all polishing; where that "good another pair of eyes" would come in handy!
 
Stella_Omega said:
Well, that's all polishing; where that "good another pair of eyes" would come in handy!
Click to expand...
No doubt you're right (as usual) Stella. Now all I need is a good editor who wants to take on a 95000 love story and works cheap. Simple. :rolleyes:

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
sr71plt said:
And, best of all, if they are freelancers (which most book copyeditors now are), if they are members of the Editorial Freelancer Association (anyone can check this out themselves at www.the-efa.org. You can't join this organization without having credentials (and if you are looking for an editor, they have a job board on this site).
Click to expand...

And for the Brits amongst us that would be the society for editors and proofreaders... www.sfep.org.uk from memory. let me know if that link is wrong
x
V
 
Rumple Foreskin said:
I'm in, though I tend to resist setting goals and such. Maybe I need to yield that point. To be honest, my problem is less the submissions process than the product being submitted. I've had several NYC agents along with an e-publisher read and then reject my second novel, a mainstream love story.

Here's the e-pub rejection.

We really do like your story, but unfortunately feel there are some areas that need tightening. The premise is great, but the story meanders too much from past to present, tells much information that could be blended by either well-written flashbacks or possibly dialogue with other characters. There are some pet words (words that are used a lot) that are used VERY heavily ie. then, when, before, and after to convey action and time.

Lastly, there is an overuse of author's voice, noticeable particularly in the prologue, but elsewhere, as well. Author's voice is when the author writes things that the character(s) would have no way of knowing. For example: She stared out of the window oblivious to the kids fighting behind her.

If you are able to restructure this novel to follow a more logical beginning, middle, and ending, plus tighten the prose by rewriting the areas where you uses author's voice and pet words, this would be a great novel. There needs to be less bouncing between various areas and a logical flow and pace. We need more "show" and less "tell", if that makes sense.

I didn't mention all that as some sort of "pity party" but to explain why I'll be concentration more on improving my writing than trying to get published. I will have a couple short stories coming out in print anthologies this spring, and I'll keep submitting, but it won't be my focus.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
Click to expand...


There's no reason for self-pity over that letter. It isn't really even considered a rejection letter in the business. A rejection letter is "No thanks, it doesn't meet our needs." And most get this sort of flat rejection. Your letter was an expression of interest if you wanted to rework what you have--and, unless they said not to resubmit to them, they are indicating they would consider it if you made changes and resubmitted. Not at all an unencouraging response.

Of course e-publishing is the most unprofitable level, so it might not be worth the effort.
 
Vermilion said:
And for the Brits amongst us that would be the society for editors and proofreaders... www.sfep.org.uk from memory. let me know if that link is wrong
x
V
Click to expand...

Thanks. Caught me in what I'd just warned against. EFA has UK Market-capable editors, but no doubt the one you mention is better for that market. I know little about the UK market--even after having half a dozen books in that market--so just about anyone from the UK with publishing experience can trump me there.
 
Thank you sp71 and Vermilion for the Editor Links - pasted into First Thread Post.

Also, signed up jomar, Alex De Kok and Rumple Foreskin ;)
 
sr71plt said:
Thanks. Caught me in what I'd just warned against. EFA has UK Market-capable editors, but no doubt the one you mention is better for that market. I know little about the UK market--even after having half a dozen books in that market--so just about anyone from the UK with publishing experience can trump me there.
Click to expand...

Well I'm in the middle of training as a proofreader! So my experience is all theoretical at the current time... Am aiming to join the SfEP myself though, when I'm done...
x
V
 
Stella_Omega said:
Well, that's all polishing; where that "good another pair of eyes" would come in handy!
Click to expand...

Yep - and I'd like to hope we might support one another in this area.

I'd like people to post sample 3 chapters, possibly in another thread, critique will pick up problems in the three chapters, often repeated through the whole. It is the first 3 chapters one needs to hone, editors will take care of the rest.

Procedure:
1) First 3 chapters
2) Novel Synopsis (max 1000 words)
3) Enquiry/Inquiry Letter

If we can make this active enough, I'll petition L&M to allow a new 'Publishing Catagory' similar to AuthorsWrite.
 
neonlyte said:
Yep - and I'd like to hope we might support one another in this area.

I'd like people to post sample 3 chapters, possibly in another thread, critique will pick up problems in the three chapters, often repeated through the whole. It is the first 3 chapters one needs to hone, editors will take care of the rest.

Procedure:
1) First 3 chapters
2) Novel Synopsis (max 1000 words)
3) Enquiry/Inquiry Letter

If we can make this active enough, I'll petition L&M to allow a new 'Publishing Catagory' similar to AuthorsWrite.
Click to expand...
I've got all that on the old harddrive. Let us know whatever you want whenever and wherever you want it.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
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