The Bratty Thread

sadangel

angel Graham!!
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
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This is a off-shoot of another thread.

What do you consider bratty?
What does your Dom(me) consider bratty to be?
Are you bratty?
Does this affect your D/s relationship in a positive or in a negative way?
Does your Dom(me) find it amusing? Irritating? Other?
Does being bratty mean you are less submissive? Why? or Why not?

Just some questions to start this thread off.

I'll answer when I get back from my appointment today. I just wanted to get the thread started as I think perhaps some of us might like to see other submissive's and Dominant's viewpoints on this topic.
 
This is a off-shoot of another thread.

What do you consider bratty?
What does your Dom(me) consider bratty to be?
Are you bratty?
Does this affect your D/s relationship in a positive or in a negative way?
Does your Dom(me) find it amusing? Irritating? Other?
Does being bratty mean you are less submissive? Why? or Why not?

Just some questions to start this thread off.

I'll answer when I get back from my appointment today. I just wanted to get the thread started as I think perhaps some of us might like to see other submissive's and Dominant's viewpoints on this topic.

I don't consider myself a brat. To me a brat is someone who uses manipulation to get spankings, attention, sex what have you.

However, I see a difference between being a brat and playful bantering or teasing. Daddy and I both enjoy this type of interaction. I know when he has a certain look on his face or tone of voice that it's time to stop and get back to immediate obedience. I also know what lines not to cross.

I don't see brat as being any more or less submissive than then any other pyls. In the end as long as the PYL gets what they want then the pyl is submissive.
 
It's hard *for me* to pin down a strict definition of "brat" in a BDSM situation... I just know it when I see it, and more often than not my measuring stick is similar to my tolerance level for bratty children - which isn't very high . LOL (not saying submissives = children)

If both parties are enjoying the behavior and consent it that dynamic? Rock on with yo' bad self, but own it.

If the "bratting" is used as a tool to manipulate/run the show? Meh... I don't see much submission in that.
 
Thank you for starting this thread, angel!

I'm still not sure whether the "brat" label applies to me or not. I don't feel like I act bratty as a way to get attention, per se, and I don't think I use bratty behavior in an effort to manipulate my partner.

That being said, being mouthy, testing my limits, being a little naughty...these are definite parts of D/s foreplay for me with both my husband and my online partner. In both dynamics, I push, they "punish" me with lots of verbal and/or physical teasing, which ultimately is about them getting me aroused enough that I slip into what I think is probably subspace where I am very much service-oriented and not remotely bratty. And they LOVE me being insolent as much as I do. They like what they see as feistiness, and they like watching me dig my own grave, so to speak, until they decide to unleash their total dominance and make me pay for my transgressions.

So, because this behavior is not only tolerated, but expected and enjoyed by my partners, is it still bratty? I have no doubt about whether this kind of submissiveness is submissive or not; there's no question in my mind that I'm submissive. I want to be made to do everything sexual that I do; I want to be controlled sexually; I want him to be in charge. I am submissive. But I know that the term "brat" has many negative connotations in the BDSM community, so I'm unsure whether to use the term in reference to myself or not.

Ultimately, I know it doesn't matter. It's just a label. But for the sake of discussion, I'm just curious.
 
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After reading your questions here B and i have been discussing them. Thank you for making the thread and bringing about this thought provoking discussion.

I don't consider myself a brat, but i do have my bratty moments. Some are good "little" bratty moments. These are done as mentioned by others as foreplay. "i want it Now!" type of moments. They can be fun, but He has told me i am trying to top from the bottom and he recognises this. It is then His decision to give me what i want or to "punish" me and not play along.

Then there are the stubborn bratty moments, which have only been a couple and made for some bad days until we worked out the underlying reasons. These are moments when i stomp and say "no, i will Not do that". I think this is another "little" moment where i was terrified of doing something which ultimately would not have hurt me. I just got in a place where i couldn't articulate and it was very frustrating for Him.

I don't think either made me less submissive. The stubborn brattiness came about from pure emotion which makes me human.
 
To me, being bratty is a route to topping from the bottom.

I have a male friend who is the submissive in his relationship, and he can be very bratty, trying to goad his Domme into giving him pain. My housemates (a D/s and vanilla couple) and I worked him out while out for a meal with them last weekend and pointed what he was doing out. His expression was priceless!

I think if you've got to be bratty to get what you want, then its a lack of respect for your dominant and a lack of understanding about your relationship's dynamic. Master has always told me that if there's something I want, I'm allowed to ask for it. I might not get it, but I can always ask. Acting bratty means a lack of respect for that facet of the relationship in my eyes.

I'm not a brat, and I'd never dream of being one. I respect my Master too much.
 
I'm not a brat, but every now and then I go that path to 'test the waters', to goad my Husband into wanting to physically punish me. However, he knows me too well, and tends to reverse it right back...

Like, he'll tell me, "Go shut and lock the door". I respond, "And what if I don't want to?". "Do it.", "No.", (insert his puppy dog eyes and a very sad tone of voice) "*sigh* Well, I guess we can't have any fun then.", (insert me feeling bad now) "...Awww, okay, I'll go shut it".

...He asserts his control over me at all times. But a lot of the time, it's purely psychological. My self-imposed guilt about my defiance toward him is far more a punishment than any spanking. Sometimes, though, he gives in (especially if it's taking me longer than what he expects of me; like, in the above scenario, I'm too comfy cuddling, and even though I've said "yes", I can't find the will to get up, so he'll give me a little 'incentive' to hurry). He thinks it's cute when I do that, but only because I rarely ever do that. I'm sure if I did it any more than that, it irritate him.

Being bratty, imho, is wanting to top from the bottom consistently... trying to always get your way by being disobedient, even though you say you want to give your Dom(me) their way. While I don't think "bratty moments" makes one any less submissive, if it was done all the time, I would find such a person to be more of a "whiny Dom" than a "genuine sub".
 
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Hmmm I am the biggest brat there is- ever... ask anyone who knows me, here or in the real world.
I never top from the bottom and I know how to behave when it is time for serious. I posted more of this before someplace but I dont remember where and i dont have time to repost my thought at the moment as football practice is turning me into the mommycabdriver.
 
So, yeah, I don't have time to respond to this in full (school work I really have to do), but I'm curious how many people see being a brat as a bad thing. Some people have said that they might "act" bratty now and again but only in jest, or just as a playful thing, and they aren't really a brat. Other people have said that they would never be a brat and being a brat is a totally wrong and disrespectful thing. What if the qualities we recognize as being "bratty" aren't an act, but just part of somebodies personality, or the way they genuinely react to something? Is it still a bad thing? Does that mean that they are disrespectful? Topping from the bottom?

Is it always a bad thing to be a brat? Is it a quality that "brats" should try to change? Is it something to avoid at all costs?

So many people say that they are bratty sometimes, or act bratty for fun on occasion, or can be the biggest brats, or just flat out are brats, and yet it is one of the most negative labels I've ever heard in the BDSM community. The way its so often described, its like there is absolutely no redeeming feature of the brat. So, what is it? Totally bad? Okay sometimes? Okay if its just for fun? A legitimate personality type/dynamic?


I'll respond with my (pretty well known by now) opinion of the term "brat" later tonight.
 
So, yeah, I don't have time to respond to this in full (school work I really have to do), but I'm curious how many people see being a brat as a bad thing. Some people have said that they might "act" bratty now and again but only in jest, or just as a playful thing, and they aren't really a brat. Other people have said that they would never be a brat and being a brat is a totally wrong and disrespectful thing. What if the qualities we recognize as being "bratty" aren't an act, but just part of somebodies personality, or the way they genuinely react to something? Is it still a bad thing? Does that mean that they are disrespectful? Topping from the bottom?

Is it always a bad thing to be a brat? Is it a quality that "brats" should try to change? Is it something to avoid at all costs?

So many people say that they are bratty sometimes, or act bratty for fun on occasion, or can be the biggest brats, or just flat out are brats, and yet it is one of the most negative labels I've ever heard in the BDSM community. The way its so often described, its like there is absolutely no redeeming feature of the brat. So, what is it? Totally bad? Okay sometimes? Okay if its just for fun? A legitimate personality type/dynamic?

I'll respond with my (pretty well known by now) opinion of the term "brat" later tonight.

I'm looking forward to more from you, Syd. As someone just now exploring this whole aspect of "me" it can be a bit disheartening to read the "brat is bad" posts over and over. I've always felt different from what I now call the vanilla world, and I know without question that I yearn, I ache, to be dominated - but it is a part of my basic make-up to push, and question, and challenge and provoke - certainly until a level of respect and trust is reached that will allow me to submit. If this means that I am not a "real" sub.... yea, okay, whatever. That still doesn't lessen my desire for submission to someone who deserves it... and will treat it like the gift it is.

Maybe there isn't anyone out there like that: quite alright, I'll live, thanks. I like my own company just fine, and would rather be alone than making myself and someone else miserable. :rolleyes:
 
This is a off-shoot of another thread.

What do you consider bratty?
What does your Dom(me) consider bratty to be?
Are you bratty?
Does this affect your D/s relationship in a positive or in a negative way?
Does your Dom(me) find it amusing? Irritating? Other?
Does being bratty mean you are less submissive? Why? or Why not?

Just some questions to start this thread off.

I'll answer when I get back from my appointment today. I just wanted to get the thread started as I think perhaps some of us might like to see other submissive's and Dominant's viewpoints on this topic.

I'm back.


I can be bratty at times, but it is more when both Sir and I are in a playful mood. So far, he has found it amusing, as long as it is not carried too far. I don't believe that being an occasional brat means one is less than submissive, but I do understand how doing it on a regular basis could be considered "topping from the bottom" so I'm glad to know that Sir likes the momentary bratty, that he encourages slightly, but if I were to be a "true brat" I don't think he'd like it at all.
 
Is being a "brat" just a mood? Something that comes and goes? Or is it a personality? Or is it a willful act?
 
To me, there's bratty/feisty, which can be fun, and bratty/pushy/controlling, which isn't.

The simplest way to illustrate the line.

To take the example of above, it's Saturday, I'm in a good mood, I say 'Close the door', she says 'Make me!' and I say 'Alright, it's on.' Jolly good beating ensues, dick gets sucked, door gets closed, a good time is had by all.

I come home. I just put in a long shift, lots of yelling and politicking and assorted work nonsense. I come back, I want to unwind, decompress. I say 'Close the damn door.' She says 'Make me.' I say 'Close the damn door or don't let it hit you on the way out.'

Challenging at the appropriate times can be quite fun. Trying to push me around and usurp my control... get a regular fucking boyfriend and tell him to close the damn door.

So to me, it's in the timing and consideration.
 
Is being a "brat" just a mood? Something that comes and goes? Or is it a personality? Or is it a willful act?

I think this is really my main question, because everyone is talking about "brats" in one of these three ways. Some people seem to think its a mood, others a personality, and others a willful act. Whichever one a person thinks, seems to shape their attitude towards brats. So yeah, I think this is the main thing.
 
I think this is really my main question, because everyone is talking about "brats" in one of these three ways. Some people seem to think its a mood, others a personality, and others a willful act. Whichever one a person thinks, seems to shape their attitude towards brats. So yeah, I think this is the main thing.

I consider brattting to be a willful act, but as I alluded to earlier - I suspect a lot of that is influenced by my views/experiences re: parenting and children. I am so zero tolerance when it comes to bratty children, and my tolerance level drops through the floor if an adult is involved.

If both parties involved are happy - rock on. But if it's in public (party/whatever) don't expect me to hang around to witness/watch/approve/think it's cute.
 
Is being a "brat" just a mood? Something that comes and goes? Or is it a personality? Or is it a willful act?

I think this is really my main question, because everyone is talking about "brats" in one of these three ways. Some people seem to think its a mood, others a personality, and others a willful act. Whichever one a person thinks, seems to shape their attitude towards brats. So yeah, I think this is the main thing.

You are going to find that just about everyone on this board will give you a different take on what being a brat is to them. To be honest I think the place would be a total bore if everyone did agree.

Is being a brat a bad thing? Well as far as I'm concerned it only matters to me what Daddy thinks and he really doesn't seem to mind... most of the time. ;):D
 
You are going to find that just about everyone on this board will give you a different take on what being a brat is to them. To be honest I think the place would be a total bore if everyone did agree.

Is being a brat a bad thing? Well as far as I'm concerned it only matters to me what Daddy thinks and he really doesn't seem to mind... most of the time. ;):D

Of course everyone will have a different definition of what it means to be a brat, but if for one person it is part of who they are, and another person says that its just bad behavior, and they should learn (or "be taught" *shudder*) to not act that way... well, that, in my mind, is more than just a difference of opinion on the definition of a label. Its telling someone that something that's intrinsic to their personality is them just acting in a bad way, and that they should simply cut it out. That's a pretty large difference in understanding, and pretty hurtful.
 
Also, does everybody see any amount of disobedience to be bratty? Or does it have to get to a certain level to become bratty? Or a certain type of disobedience?

And again, also, why is disobedience inherently a bad thing? Is it only a bad thing within a relationship where that isn't part of the dynamic? Is it a bad thing for a submissive, no matter what?
 
Also, does everybody see any amount of disobedience to be bratty? Or does it have to get to a certain level to become bratty? Or a certain type of disobedience?

And again, also, why is disobedience inherently a bad thing? Is it only a bad thing within a relationship where that isn't part of the dynamic? Is it a bad thing for a submissive, no matter what?

I think this gets into the subsets of submissives again. For someone who considers themselves a "slave" or "owned," I can see where disobedience may never be considered a good thing. And I can understand why those people make comments about how a submissive should NEVER be bratty, how disrespectful it is. But if you're submissiveness runs in a different direction, I don't think disobedience is inherently bad at all. My husband and my online boy both would HATE for me to be obedient all the time. They'd find it boring. Obedience sometimes without the mock fight? Absolutely. But they'd have no interest in someone who truly wanted only to serve them all the time. For us, the challenge of the battle of wills is at least half the fun. And there's no way that's a bad thing for me as a submissive. Does it make me less submissive than a sub who'd never dream of challenging her Dom? Probably, but I'm more than okay with that. I've never claimed to be the subbiest sub who ever subbed. Far from it.

Is it only a bad thing within a relationship where disobedience isn't part of the dynamic? Well, yeah, I think that's probably pretty fair to say. Essentially, isn't this saying, if you both like it, it's not a bad thing, but if it's pissing one of the parties off, then it is? I don't see a way to argue with that.
 
Is it only a bad thing within a relationship where disobedience isn't part of the dynamic? Well, yeah, I think that's probably pretty fair to say. Essentially, isn't this saying, if you both like it, it's not a bad thing, but if it's pissing one of the parties off, then it is? I don't see a way to argue with that.

Me neither ;)
 
I LOVE this thread! I don't know if I would consider myself a brat, or not. I'm definitely prone to brattiness, though. I think I'm more of a smart-ass, rather than a brat. There are times when I'll say something, in a playful mood, just to get a rise. But I try to judge my timing on things. Definitely not when things are of a serious topic. Unless the mood has definitely gone entirely too somber, and we both know that it's time to lighten up. I don't think that my particular brand of brat (if it's even that) makes me any less submissive. It just makes for some fun, light-hearted conversation!
 
What is bratty?

It can be a mood, a personality, or an act.

Basically when I think bratty I think resistant through being silly, laud, in your face.

For example, “I know you are but what am I.”

It’s so irrelevant and annoying it really broods anger and frustration in me.

A brats redeeming factors
You have got to be cute/hot/something, to have gotten away with it in the past.
A physical struggle it hot, as well as seeing the high and mighty as a blubbering mess. They have so much further to fall.

In my preference though, relationship wise, a brat free sub is a better sub.

But then unfortunately I‘m not everyones vote. :rolleyes:
 
i think the term "brat" needs to be different with every relationship...what one PYL determines as being bratty and annoying another PYL would see as mere playfullness and an opportunity for some foreplay or whatnot. so it all depends on the relationship at hand.
 
This is a really interesting discussion for me, as was the doormat thread, because I don't have any experience in the RL scene. I'm finding I don't have a lot of the negative associations that these behaviors seem to have in the greater community. I tend not to see things in black and white. To me, it seeems that I have the same fears and insecurities as non-kinky folks, and these things don't make us a "bad" or "good" pyl just as it doesn't make non-kinksters bad or good people. It's just, as a submissive type, I need more than just Oprah to tell me I'm okay. I need the active reinforcement of a dominant personality to help me feel in control and safe.

For me personally, bratty behavior is a negative. I can be very sarcastic and I find that this is exasperated when I am in an uncomfortable space. I use it as a defense mechanism to keep threatening people at a safe distance. This can be good and bad, as it also kicks in when I'm feeling uncertain in my relationship. I can't control how far I will push when that happens, so for me it is a bad behavior. It's something that I don't like about myself and I really want my dominant to help rein me in. Aggressively bratty behaviour from me is almost a cry for help, or at least a sign that I am in emotionally turbulent waters.

That said, I have a sense of humor, and I would not want to be in a relationship that didn't allow me to express that part of me.

I was wondering, where does bratty-feisty intersect with the sammie type? Are they the same thing? Does the word sammie have positive or negative connotations?
 
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