The purpose of a BDSM session

MeekMe said:

Way too much cat poop scooping and not enough whipping and fucking.

I don't think I've ever reached subspace, but I've had some fucking awesome orgasms.

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I think I have reached subspace. Not the spacy, flyaway kind, but rather one where I'm very intensely present. It's been nice, but not something I particularly need or aim towards. I don't know if people would call that subspace or not, but I do.

The spaced out mode would, indeed, be very problematic for day to day life. Although it would be nice to be able to blame some of my procrastination on subspace.

I honestly think I'm too boring and too practical to attach any great drama and theater to BDSM. To me it's just a way to handle the relationship and it makes both of us happy. And it's just sex. And a way to relieve stress and frustration sometimes, but mostly it's just sex and a relationship dynamic that happens to work for us.

^^^ I can agree with that.

DVS said:

A BDSM session for me is, like you say, a scene. Look at it as a sort of date with your partner. You both have your role to play, just like in any other date, and you respond to each other in the same way.

If you are already involved with this person, this session is just a way to continue that involvement, or maybe to expand your emotional and physical connection with them. If you are just testing the waters with this person, then the "date" part of this still holds true in that you are evaluating your connection with this person to see if there is any real chemical attraction and if so, is there a chance for an emotional connection.

And, sometimes people just like to get together and play. A BDSM session could be nothing more than that, too.

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I think DVS puts it quite well.

When I was in a 24/7 TPE relationship, we did all kinds of little things (rules, rituals, random spankings, etc) that expressed our dynamic. It was just the way we interacted with each other on a daily basis.

A "session" or "scene" was a bit more formal in that it involved a degree of planning and a specific allocation of time for us to focus completely on each other, either in public or in private. Specifically, it might be so we could try something new, bring a fantasy to life, do something we enjoyed that required a bit more time and preparation than usual, or use bondage furniture we didn't have at home. It could be for the purposes of punishment, maintenance, therapy, pleasure or just for fun.

The overarching goal was to bring us closer together. To maintain and deepen the bond between us. To reinforce our dynamic. It was an expression of love.

I've only truly spaced out a few times, but I loved the feeling and I want to be able to get there more often and less by happy accident.

BDSM isn't sex for me; rather, it's how I understand sex, it's how I understand emotional intimacy, and it's the only sort of understanding that comes naturally to me. Without BDSM my capacity for intimate relationships would simply not exist. The sex is secondary, tertiary even. I'm much more richly satisfied by other things that the D/s framework has made much more accessible to me than not.

So yeah. I hesitate to call those spacey moments "subspace"... So I just stick with what I know they are for sure: endorphin highs.

KoPilot said:

Not sure how this is really possible unless you're living some kind of Gorean fantasy where the sub just lounges around the house in a metal bikini all day waiting to get whipped and fucked.

Kinda hard to be suspended in a semi-functional state 24/7 when there's like, rent to pay. And cat shit to scoop. And IBS to contend with. Etc.

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I agree with you 100%! By the way, I am glad to see that lots of people here view Gorean stuff as a cartoon type of BDSM! It is at least refreshing to find down-to-earth people, because they are the ones who can actually bring BDSM into their real lives!

When that Greek Master talked of a permanent trance, he did not mean the spaced out trance. A down-to-earth realistic D/s relationship would not result in escaping into a fantasy world, but would lend even more pragmatism and dynamic in dealing with everyday problems. But at the same time it would ideally provide the emotional stability that a permanent bond of respect and intimacy can provide.

But is it possible to live our lives like that? To live in a way that is reality-based and at the same time achieve the serenity and security and deep appreciation of the little moments in life, as a good D/s relationship might bring? Is it possible to achieve the feeling of belonging to someone, of conforming to his wishes - again on a realistic level - the feeling of living erotically for most of the day, even at work, even when you take the dog for a walk, or when you scoop your cat's poo?<smiles>

I think anyone who has managed to live like that will agree that first of all, it is rare and difficult, and secondly, that this an altered state of consciousness - that is, a trance. A state where you are very much in tune with the demands of everyday life and very capable of dealing with it, but at the same time you view this everyday life imbued with a glow, a brightness, a power that Eros (or D/s) can bring.

If you look at great music performers, like piano players, or even great athletes, you will notice that they are in a similar trance-like state, when they perform. They are absolutely in control of what they are doing, but they are also totally immersed in it, as if they were on another planet. You can see the glow on their faces. They are as if inebriated and sober at the same time! I think that would describe the D/s trance better than anything else...

It is my mistake for not explaining the term "trance" as it was explained to me. And for that, I apologize.

Arianthe said:

The overarching goal was to bring us closer together. To maintain and deepen the bond between us. To reinforce our dynamic. It was an expression of love.

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I agree very much with that view of BDSM relationships. I think it is characteristic of people who seek high quality when relating to each other...

KoPilot said:

BDSM isn't sex for me; rather, it's how I understand sex, it's how I understand emotional intimacy, and it's the only sort of understanding that comes naturally to me. Without BDSM my capacity for intimate relationships would simply not exist. The sex is secondary, tertiary even. I'm much more richly satisfied by other things that the D/s framework has made much more accessible to me than not.

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I would not change a single word in what you are saying!!!

And I do enjoy my endorphin highs too, during sessions... I only wish I could have them more often - I am in a long-distance relationship and I see my Master for 3 days each month (hoping to change that, in about a year...)

Thank you all for your answers. Understanding people is important to me...

dora_salonica said:

I think anyone who has managed to live like that will agree that first of all, it is rare and difficult, and secondly, that this an altered state of consciousness - that is, a trance. A state where you are very much in tune with the demands of everyday life and very capable of dealing with it, but at the same time you view this everyday life imbued with a glow, a brightness, a power that Eros (or D/s) can bring.

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This. ^^^

It's amazing and powerful. I would give anything to have that again.

Industrial_Bondage said:

This is, I think, the root of it; life grinds us down. The time we have to indulge ourselves becomes less and less as responsibilities to the sunlit world increase. Most of the time my wife and I are the upright, reliable, quiet people down the street. PTA, church, civic groups, they can all count on us to do our part. Al to often intimate time together becomes a quicky in the shower or after the kids are down for the night.

Drives both of us nuts, because it's not what we crave.

But give us a few hours when no one wants anything from us and we know exactly what we want from each other.

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That's very much the case. -_-b

Studying

Great thread
Thank you

just4friends said:

Great thread
Thank you

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Very good thread indeed... Thanks to everyone!

To put it shortly, what we're always trying to achieve is a nice moment between the two of us. Maybe to learn something new or just cherish what we already have. Very simple.

But if you specify "BDSM session" as a planned event/scene then the purpose is for example stress relief (requested or suggested by either one of us, based on ones own need or seeing that the other could use it) or a special treat, as in we recently rented a playroom for our anniversary. It can be a homecoming welcome when hubby's been away working for a longer period, a birthday present or just a fun tradition. Last year we had lots of kid-free Sundays, so it became a habit to dedicate the entire day for some serious control play. We both like it, so we're constantly planning on when and where to get it next.

Then again, if you mean "BDSM session" as sex that has a so to speak BDSM twist of sorts, you might as well ask what's the purpose of sex in general... It's something we want from each other, something we enjoy giving each other and it's just a part of us as people who are in love. When we end up having that regular and normal sex couples usually have, we most certainly don't need to make advance decisions whether it will be BDSM or not. We just talk along the way and bring out toys, ropes and blah blah if we wish.

Last week on one night we just took our time and cradled each other in that stereotypical love-making way, and on the next I sat on him slapping his dick around, denying his orgasm in the end and then had his mouth between my legs for what seemed like a small eternity. No special purpose in either one, except a loving couple enjoying each other.

My husband never orgasms without my permission, so I guess in that sense we always have a BDSM twist involved. That's the only thing that applies always, whether we're playing in a rented facility or trying to conceive a baby between our own cotton sheets within a very spesific schedule. And again neither of those scenarios tries to achieve something special (well apart from a baby...), it's just good times for us.

Like.. What's the purpose of having him enter you from behind? Well, to have him enter you from behind, as it's something I really, really like for it feels good!

MissJW said:

Like.. What's the purpose of having him enter you from behind? Well, to have him enter you from behind, as it's something I really, really like for it feels good!

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I am sure you are aware of the significance of sodomy in the animal kingdom...

Whenever an animal, like a wolf or a tiger, a lion etc, is defeated in battle, it turns its backside to the winner, offering his ass, begging for mercy...

It is the utmost symbol of submission, to be taken from behind. The unnatural hole, the one not used for procreation. Right?

Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe. But this is not one of those times. Nobody just does whatever. And I wish we could say we do things for no purpose at all. Leave significance, meaning, thought, feeling, out of the equation. Be like animals, follow our insticts, claim we act without thought.

But we cannot. It is impossible... We cannot avoid who we are. We cannot avoid our humanity and our self- awareness. Can we?

What does it mean to say "I do it because it gives me pleasure?" Surely, not everything gives us pleasure. We can even come up with hierarchies of the things that give us pleasure, just as we can make a list of our favorite foods. And we can actually pinpoint the tastes and the combinations of tastes that are the most preferable for us (I like spicy by the way... and sodomy...lol)

So what is it about sexuality that raises a forbidding veil of ignorance, so that we do not dare to question?

I don't know. Perhaps... hang-ups. Perhaps a certain aversion to things perceived as forbidden, wrong, sinful. I honestly do not know.

dora_salonica said:

I am sure you are aware of the significance of sodomy in the animal kingdom...

Whenever an animal, like a wolf or a tiger, a lion etc, is defeated in battle, it turns its backside to the winner, offering his ass, begging for mercy...

It is the utmost symbol of submission, to be taken from behind. The unnatural hole, the one not used for procreation. Right?

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Just a quick answer to this. I probably chose a wrong comparison, as I only meant PIV but from behind. Absolutely nothing goes up my ass, you see Anal penetration is a one way street in our marriage; I do and he receives, no exceptions.

But I agree that having (PIV) sex from behind does seem more animalistic than for example him entering from the front. From behind he gets in deeper, can hold me still and set the pace, we don't have eye contact and he has the ability to either hold me up or just toss me down and crush me underneath him (which he did last time and I loved it). It's just wonderful.

dora_salonica said:

I am sure you are aware of the significance of sodomy in the animal kingdom...

Whenever an animal, like a wolf or a tiger, a lion etc, is defeated in battle, it turns its backside to the winner, offering his ass, begging for mercy...

It is the utmost symbol of submission, to be taken from behind. The unnatural hole, the one not used for procreation. Right?

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Wow, over analyze anal?

I've never heard of this before. I've heard of animals avoiding eye contact or lowering their heads and backing away to show they are no longer a threat. But never have I heard of a predatory animal like this offer its ass. Usually the loser is dead, or managed to run away before it ended up dead.

Animals tend to start eating at the asshole because it's a soft spot that's easy to rip open. MMM, tasty. Maybe we can analyze analingus?

There's some controversy among researchers involving the implications of sodomy and homosexual relations in the animal kingdom. Some researchers questioned why butt sex wasn't considered sex, and instead listed as an act of dominance. Why do we keep going with the "the one penetrating is dominating the one being penetrated?" What if the one being penetrated likes it and demands that the one penetrating do it?

Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe. But this is not one of those times. Nobody just does whatever. And I wish we could say we do things for no purpose at all. Leave significance, meaning, thought, feeling, out of the equation. Be like animals, follow our insticts, claim we act without thought.

But we cannot. It is impossible... We cannot avoid who we are. We cannot avoid our humanity and our self- awareness. Can we?

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Should we question everything we do? Why do some people choose to build model cars for their hobby? Why do some people collect movies? Why do I like chocolate ice cream?

Because we are human and "self-aware" should we question every action we make? Why is BDSM some power, spiritual thing that has to constantly be analyzed? Just because some of us chalk something up to "it feels good so I do it" doesn't mean we're refusing to acknowledge our humanity. It does mean that sometimes we don't give a fuck where the urge comes from.

What does it mean to say "I do it because it gives me pleasure?" Surely, not everything gives us pleasure. We can even come up with hierarchies of the things that give us pleasure, just as we can make a list of our favorite foods. And we can actually pinpoint the tastes and the combinations of tastes that are the most preferable for us (I like spicy by the way... and sodomy...lol)

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Seeking pleasure is something we naturally do. It's when we're bombarded with these questions that things become less enjoyable. We have so many people weighing in on what is right and wrong. Just let me fucking enjoy already.

So what is it about sexuality that raises a forbidding veil of ignorance, so that we do not dare to question?

I don't know. Perhaps... hang-ups. Perhaps a certain aversion to things perceived as forbidden, wrong, sinful. I honestly do not know.

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Why do we have to question it? Why can't we simply just enjoy something because it feels good?

It's like two hobbyists who don't understand each other. Hobbyist A likes building model cars for display. Hobbyist B likes building RC cars and racing them.

Hobbyist B thinks Hobbyist A is silly and wasting his money because A's cars only sit on display.

What B is failing to realize is that A isn't silly or wasting his money. A gets real enjoyment out of building the models, therefore his money and time are well spent. B just wouldn't get the same enjoyment from this type of project.

Should they both sit and ponder the deeper meaning of why they like these particular hobbies? Or is it ok for them to just get some mindless enjoyment out of it because the rest of their day is filled with real world shit that is exhausting?


I am still probably considered new to the whole D/s, BSDM, and fetish thing. When I started, it was these kinds of questions that made it less enjoyable. Constantly being told to question my motives. I couldn't look at a single article without someone turning BDSM into some Disney Princess scenario or the "twue meaning" behind it. The deeper implications. The overly romanticized view of TPE. Like some fucking religious cult trying to tell the masses that the best way to do it was to follow these sacred scriptures.

Much like my feelings on religion, It's totally ok for other people to have their beliefs, but do not expect me to pick up those beliefs or live by them. Do not shove your religion in my face or expect me to live up to those standards.

I don't care about the sacred scriptures or the books that tell me it's ok. I don't need the pretty poetic words to make it sound like some beautiful, romantic voyage. I want to get off. I want fantastic, debilitating orgasms. I want to enjoy a little slice of life without questioning whether it's tied to something more meaningful.

There are a lot of people who will read this and think, "well, you're just not really submissive." To them I say: eat a dick. Your opinion has no bearing on how I get my jollies or what I consider myself.

I would have quoted you Meekme, but what you said was great and it would have made for a really long post. I think you nailed it!!

MeekMe, I like that post so much!

MeekMe said:

Wow, over analyze anal?

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Οh my, is that what we are doing? Ι think that this is the second best way to spend our Monday night!

MeekMe said:

I've never heard of this before. I've heard of animals avoiding eye contact or lowering their heads and backing away to show they are no longer a threat. But never have I heard of a predatory animal like this offer its ass. Usually the loser is dead, or managed to run away before it ended up dead.

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http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/570899/submissive-behaviour

MeekMe said:

Should we question everything we do?

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Ι honestly do not know. Most times I enjoy being a total asshole!<big smile>

MeekMe said:

Seeking pleasure is something we naturally do

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Sure. For example, did you know that we opt for sweet things from the first day we are born? Did you know that our thinking system is made for laziness? And so on...

MeekMe said:

Why do we have to question it? Why can't we simply just enjoy something because it feels good?

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I honestly do not know. Personally, I would prefer to get fucked and make grunting noises (I do, the problem is that I am totally fucking aware...)

MeekMe said:

I couldn't look at a single article without someone turning BDSM into some Disney Princess scenario or the "twue meaning" behind it. The deeper implications. The overly romanticized view of TPE. Like some fucking religious cult trying to tell the masses that the best way to do it was to follow these sacred scriptures.

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Ι know, it is thoroughly silly. Imagine Galileo trying to talk to people about the truth. Oh dear...To the pyre, I say! <smiles>

MeekMe said:

There are a lot of people who will read this and think, "well, you're just not really submissive." To them I say: eat a dick. Your opinion has no bearing on how I get my jollies or what I consider myself.

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Now this is a very good question: what does it mean to be a submissive? Is it something to do with how we achieve an orgasm? Is it something else? Should we avoid anything of essence and depth and concentrate on the body's workings?

I don't know. You tell me....

dora_salonica said:

Οh my, is that what we are doing? Ι think that this is the second best way to spend our Monday night!



http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/570899/submissive-behaviour

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But, not really as much with the ass and the sodomizing.

Your dog rubs its ass on things when it wants to send a message to other dogs that that stuff belongs to it. If it's deferring it rolls onto its back and shows its throat. Sure, dogs will sometimes hump their siblings or their friends to make a point.

Extrapolate onto wolves and wild dogs, generally.

This is pretty normal for carnivore mammals. Throat exposed, belly up.

There's a lot of re-evaluation of alpha-beta pack dynamics going on, too, since the original theorizing was done using a pack of zoo wolves and the results don't jive with observed wild behavior.

Of course, with our giant front brains, we can do things like man A grabs man B by the necktie and forcefully says "you gonna give it to me HARD stud?" and the argument that whoever is getting the buttsecks has to be the bitch falls apart a bit. What if the guy getting fucked is paying a drug dependent rent boy to stick it in him, is he suddenly actually that submissive in the grand scheme of things or can he not be in total control? (See film: Love is the Devil)

The acts are really what you make them into, how you code them and decode them and interpret them in ways that are not even perceptible to your partner at times.

Netzach said:

(See film: Love is the Devil)

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Thanks for the tip! I am downloading it just now...

dora_salonica said:

Ι know, it is thoroughly silly. Imagine Galileo trying to talk to people about the truth. Oh dear...To the pyre, I say! <smiles>

..

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Except Galilei wasn't on the preachy side of things.

IrisAlthea said:

Except Galilei wasn't on the preachy side of things.

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Oh no, God forbid! He managed just fine to escape a horrible fate, that would have been imposed on him by his peers...<smiles>

I love your comments. Especially the one about the musicians being inebriated and sober at the same time. I know I'm in subspace when all the "no no's" in my book suddenly become really hot and I'm past floating to asking for things that will not only make my orgasm more intense but push my boundaries further. That is a moment I crave more than anything, when no becomes yes.

Pandora6 said:

I love your comments. Especially the one about the musicians being inebriated and sober at the same time. I know I'm in subspace when all the "no no's" in my book suddenly become really hot and I'm past floating to asking for things that will not only make my orgasm more intense but push my boundaries further. That is a moment I crave more than anything, when no becomes yes.

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Thanks! That was Master Wrong who said it, not me. (By the way, he chose to be called Wrong because he says that it is always the Master who is to blame, when things go wrong - not the sub...)

Recently I read this great little book by Daniel Kahneman, the winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics in 2002. That book has become an international best seller. The title is "Thinking Fast and Slow".

On page 40 I found a discussion on "flow", which resembles substate very much. The Hungarian psychologist Mihali Csikszentmihaliy (what a name...) has come up with the idea of “flow”, a term which is now used extensively to describe experiences where people's concentration is so deep that they lose all sense of time and self. These people are usually highly skilled at what they are doing and enjoy it immensely. Their description of the joy of that state is so compelling that the doctor calls it an “optimal experience”. There are certain activities that can induce a state of flow, as for example, for people who play chess competitively or ride a motorcycle at 200kms per hour, or artists in the process of creating a work of art.

I will add people who are having a BDSM session. There is no doubt in my mind that the flow described here is identical to the subspace experienced by a sub or the domspace experienced by a Dom.

“Flow neatly separates the two forms of effort: concentration on the task and the deliberate control of attention...In a state of flow, maintaining focused attention on these absorbing activities requires no exertion of self-control, thereby freeing resources to be directed to the task at hand.”

The sub's resources that are freed during a BDSM session or during a D/s relationship, are always directed towards sexuality and eroticism – and their final recipient is naturally the Dom. When there is a surplus of energy, people turn to erotic activity. That is one of the reasons why BDSM activities are so much more enjoyable than mainstream sexual activities and why BDSM is so highly addictive. BDSM could be likened to a drunken state of sobriety.