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Old 07-11-2018, 03:44 PM   #126
LincolnDuncan
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Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
Yep. As Judge Judy would say, beauty is fleeting, but gullibility is forever. It's not like this sort of Russian activity hasn't been exposed for everyone but Trumpettes to see and figure out.

I've done more looking into this movement. I can't see anything that doesn't identify it as the same Russian/Republican shit that was done to dupe Americans in the last election. At the base it doesn't pass the sniff test of being a rational response of any liberals dissatisfied with what they're getting in the Democratic Party. Nice touch to use a gay angle, though, as it obviously has duped additional folks--pigheaded folks, as is apparent from this thread. The Daily Beast located this video face on stage in New York, wearing a Trump armband and singing pro-Trump songs in October of 2017. I've invited citation of claims countering this and no one has posted anything claiming the contrary.

The strong possibility of Russia being the source of this isn't conspiracy theory--it's following up the judgment of the U.S. intelligence community and the Senate Intelligence Committee findings on what has happened and will continue to happen until certain parties wake up and do something about it. As long as the activity is in the Republicans' and Trump's favor, the "just pretend" disclaimers will continue. And gullible people will continue to be duped.
EJs attack on you seems to be personal. Is she an ex or something?
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:57 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by LincolnDuncan View Post
EJs attack on you seems to be personal. Is she an ex or something?
Not from my end. I don't think I've ever posted to a thread she was posting to, even under my other account, sr71plt.

I can tell you that I was really blindsided by her bringing the gay issue in here--and getting it SO wrong--and then being pigheaded about it and insisting on responding to something I didn't post, even when others pointed out how off base she is. Well, fuck er.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:11 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
Not from my end. I don't think I've ever posted to a thread she was posting to, even under my other account, sr71plt.

I can tell you that I was really blindsided by her bringing the gay issue in here--and getting it SO wrong--and then being pigheaded about it and insisting on responding to something I didn't post, even when others pointed out how off base she is. Well, fuck er.
I'm sure that what you said is true but it is a very strange attack causing me to wonder the basis. She is another intellectually dishonest person with a political agenda.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:16 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by LincolnDuncan View Post
I'm sure that what you said is true but it is a very strange attack causing me to wonder the basis. She is another intellectually dishonest person with a political agenda.
I looked at former posting of both her and the OP and decided they were just gullible on this movement and the video, not trolling Trumpettes. I think she just doesn't apologize or backtrack on her miscalls. Anyway, my thanks to the posters who tried to pull her back from her cliff plunge.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:56 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by KeithD View Post

The strong possibility of Russia being the source of this isn't conspiracy theory--it's following up the judgment of the U.S. intelligence community and the Senate Intelligence Committee findings on what has happened and will continue to happen until certain parties wake up and do something about it. As long as the activity is in the Republicans' and Trump's favor, the "just pretend" disclaimers will continue. And gullible people will continue to be duped.
This is both nuts and funny - the way people see Russians under every bed, ever since they were shown to have interfered in elections.

To me the campaign starter seems to be either a Republican, or to have been been asked by Republicans to engage in propaganda (like a poster mentioned: yes, "Walk away" but where? Towards Republicans by default, given the bipartite system).
And particularly the Black people who posted videos seemed genuine to me. Why would They be Russian bots?

Not defending Russians - I'm sure that Russian bots latched onto it and tried to boost this campaign via twitter bots.
But they seem to operate by hyping up things or increasing the splitting.
The splitting is already there, half of you guys who discuss politics can't seem to be able to have a decent conversation without hating on each other. Russians just add more fuel to the fire.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:41 PM   #131
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There isn't much difference from something like this being instigated by the Republicans and the Russians (and even the NRA, for that matter) in the last two years. Multiple lines of both official and press enquiry are lining them up, and if you don't see it, it's because you don't want to (and I don't care what you choose to pretend).
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:00 AM   #132
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Even when the video is not made by a 'True Liberal', I do think it would benefit the Democrats to be self-critical, to look at the points indicated, and to see if they need to be dealt with. Why shouldn't they try to improve themselves?

Being a video made by a non-liberal doesn't mean its points are made up out of thin air.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:00 AM   #133
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This video expresses very well what confuses or annoys me mostly about the US and European Left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwJ0DYsBZfw

I'm not saying that discrimination doesn't exist or needs not be addressed, far from it.a
But this conflation of subjectivity and identity politics with objective economic choices in politics, creates confusion. Why can't they be kept separate?

Their economic ideals are focused on one type of class wars (based on income disparities).
Whereas their identity politics are focused on culture wars (which, paradoxically split and separate people in new classes based on biology ie men versus women) .
Sometimes they even undermine one another.

Last edited by beew : 07-12-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:31 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
I looked at former posting of both her and the OP and decided they were just gullible on this movement and the video, not trolling Trumpettes. I think she just doesn't apologize or backtrack on her miscalls. Anyway, my thanks to the posters who tried to pull her back from her cliff plunge.

Okay. I apologize for assuming you’re, and for calling you, a bigot.

As a bisexual woman and educator, I often confront an attitude from people on the left that I must be a Democrat (in both meanings of the phrase “must be”). They act like I’m some sort of traitor when they find out I did not vote for Hillary in 2016. (I did not vote for Trump, either; I voted for Darrell Castle, as the least offensive of that slate of awful candidates). I consider such an attitude very bigoted because it assumes that based on my sex and sexuality (and profession), that I must be a certain way.

When I saw your criticisms of CeriseBuss, and some of the reasons given, I thought I identified the same attitude in you. Thus I reacted strongly. Again, I apologize.

All the same, I have to agree with a number of other posters on this thread, noting that those who do not like what Mr. Straka says in his video do not appear interested in trying to argue its substance, only its motive. That says a lot.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:40 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeriseBuss View Post
As a lesbian living an alternative lifestyle, I nonetheless came to the same conclusions ten years ago as this gentleman expresses here:

#WalkAway Campaign

Today's "Liberals" are anything but liberal in its true sense. They are intolerant oppressors of free expression who see the world not through the lens of humanity's equality, but through the gender and racial politics of victimization.

If you are a "Liberal" in the current sense, I dare you to watch this entire video and defend what today's Left has become.

If you are a "liberal" in the traditional sense who still supports the Democrat Party, I beg you to watch and consider what this man has to say.

Thank you!
I decided to watch this thing again to make sure that my original assessment of bullshit was correct. Six minutes of hyperbole with no factual support. Clever to flash some text in an effort to demonstrate documentation. What he is describing, if anything is a fringe element of the most extreme left. I didn't research who he is or his organization but I noticed the conservative values, buzzwords at the end.

No facts, no documentation, total bullshit!
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:13 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubenR View Post
Even when the video is not made by a 'True Liberal', I do think it would benefit the Democrats to be self-critical, to look at the points indicated, and to see if they need to be dealt with. Why shouldn't they try to improve themselves?

Being a video made by a non-liberal doesn't mean its points are made up out of thin air.
Everyone and every organization needs to be self-critical, of course, but that's a deflection from this issue. That the Russians are using media forms to attack the fabric of American society and politics is not a conspiracy theory. It's a judgment of the U.S. intelligence community and, now, the bipartisan Senate Committee on Intelligence (the House version of the committee made no effort to be anything but partisan and hand-in-glove with a blackmailed agent of the Russians). The judgment is that the Russians have interfered through vehicles like this one and will continue to interfere unless/until they are stopped--or at least until Americans stop being gullible about what's going on.

Since the pointed direction of this video and movement are illogical and only benefit disunity and the Republicans and Russians, and because the underpinnings of this movement and video have been identified as Russian and Trump Republican in some sources--and not countered by Russian or Republican sources, I write it off.

The Democrats don't have anywhere near the need for self-examination in terms of preserving the union that the Republicans and Trump do, so raspberries to the supposition that the Democrats have any more work to do here than the "Just-grab-em-by-the-pussy" Republicans.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:35 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
Everyone and every organization needs to be self-critical, of course, but that's a deflection from this issue. That the Russians are using media forms to attack the fabric of American society and politics is not a conspiracy theory. It's a judgment of the U.S. intelligence community and, now, the bipartisan Senate Committee on Intelligence (the House version of the committee made no effort to be anything but partisan and hand-in-glove with a blackmailed agent of the Russians). The judgment is that the Russians have interfered through vehicles like this one and will continue to interfere unless/until they are stopped--or at least until Americans stop being gullible about what's going on.

Since the pointed direction of this video and movement are illogical and only benefit disunity and the Republicans and Russians, and because the underpinnings of this movement and video have been identified as Russian and Trump Republican in some sources--and not countered by Russian or Republican sources, I write it off.

The Democrats don't have anywhere near the need for self-examination in terms of preserving the union that the Republicans and Trump do, so raspberries to the supposition that the Democrats have any more work to do here than the "Just-grab-em-by-the-pussy" Republicans.
How about you start by commenting on my assertion that
"the Far Right is full of racists
while the Far Left accuses everyone who disagrees with any of it's points-
of Being a racist - or a rusophile traitor."

ETA
Just saw the post beneath mine -what he said

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Old 07-12-2018, 01:35 PM   #138
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All the jibbeer jabber about which party is "Right" is stupid. The issue should be do either of the parties represent the real interests of the country or just their donors?

While the parties squabble about fringe issues the LSM eggs on the quarrels rather than demanding the enforcement of the LAW!

BHO was a reasonable President, but he still committed war crimes and was a weak leader of the country, even if he was articulate and slim, he listened to Hillary and the establishment on Libya and Syria.

Bush and Cheney were war criminals and should have been sent to the Hague, but BHO said, "let us not look to the past" and let the bastards off when they should have been in handcuffs.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:08 PM   #139
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That's not the issue of this thread, Jack. This thread is about what continues to be or isn't connected to the Russian disinformation campaign targeted against the United States. My assessment, after looking into it, is that this WalkAway movement fits the bill of being a Russian operation, because there are reports that it is, the guy on the video has a reported--and not contradicted--questionable past for the position being projected, the movement is irrational in theory and evident goals, it heavily supports Republican and Russian interests, and it's exactly in keeping with behavior the U.S. intelligence organizations and the appropriate Senate committee have judged that the Russian have done and will continue to do. So, I WalkAway from WalkAway and say those who go this route are gullible, willing to be fooled continuously, and aren't using other methods within the only party that would even listen to them to address their issues. They are frittering away whatever leverage they have--which only benefits the Republicans and the Russians.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:54 PM   #140
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But the "substance" is inextricable from the "motive."

I object to the "substance" from the get go as being an invalid, propagandistic, false representation of "the left" and so-called "liberal" positions and actions. To treat it seriously is to capitulate to the manipulation.

You may be ok with being duped and manipulated, but I'm not. Give me a valid argument supported by FACTS, not propaganda, and we'll talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpressJosephine View Post

Okay. I apologize for assuming you’re, and for calling you, a bigot.

As a bisexual woman and educator, I often confront an attitude from people on the left that I must be a Democrat (in both meanings of the phrase “must be”). They act like I’m some sort of traitor when they find out I did not vote for Hillary in 2016. (I did not vote for Trump, either; I voted for Darrell Castle, as the least offensive of that slate of awful candidates). I consider such an attitude very bigoted because it assumes that based on my sex and sexuality (and profession), that I must be a certain way.

When I saw your criticisms of CeriseBuss, and some of the reasons given, I thought I identified the same attitude in you. Thus I reacted strongly. Again, I apologize.

All the same, I have to agree with a number of other posters on this thread, noting that those who do not like what Mr. Straka says in his video do not appear interested in trying to argue its substance, only its motive. That says a lot.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:01 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by LincolnDuncan View Post
I decided to watch this thing again to make sure that my original assessment of bullshit was correct. Six minutes of hyperbole with no factual support. Clever to flash some text in an effort to demonstrate documentation. What he is describing, if anything is a fringe element of the most extreme left. I didn't research who he is or his organization but I noticed the conservative values, buzzwords at the end.

No facts, no documentation, total bullshit!
Yeah, that was pretty much my read on it.
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:04 AM   #142
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The only Fake News is right wing news.

This article shows the #walkaway crusade for what it is - right wing propaganda.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8621ba8cf563
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