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Old 10-25-2018, 11:45 AM   #1
dominatrixjane
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why is healthcare so expensive in the usa?

why is healthcare so expensive in the usa?

and what has to happen?
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:18 PM   #2
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The cost of health care per capita is half as much in Canada as it is here. This is entirely the result of cutting the private health insurance companies out of the loop.
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:22 PM   #3
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Greed.
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:29 PM   #4
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Medical research is expensive. So is the cost of the education as well as the actual practice of medicine. Someone has to pay for that and it's going to be the end consumer.

What most people these days don't understand is that medicine has been ridiculously expensive (comparatively) for thousands of years. That's not going to change with more government involvement, regulation, and mandates. But, if you want to drive down the cost of healthcare, the consumer needs to have widespread access to healthcare people and treatment options that are less expensive.

Which is the selling point of single payer - less quality for less price. Which is actually stupid when you think about it, I don't want second rate HC when I'm sick, I want the best. Does anyone really want to choose between snake oil as a treatment for cancer or REAL cancer research and treatment? New antibiotics or sepsis? Peg legs or top of the line prosthetics?

Yeah, I thought so too. And that means you have to have someone do the research. And that drives up the cost.
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominatrixjane View Post
why is healthcare so expensive in the usa?

and what has to happen?
Because we can't commit to a functioning system, because that doesn't line the right pockets.

The solution is to shit or get off the pot.

We either need to provide a public HC services, or the government needs to fuck off and get out of the business of being in control of all HC business.


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The cost of health care per capita is half as much in Canada as it is here. This is entirely the result of cutting the private health insurance companies out of the loop.
ACA made insurance companies THE LOOP and held a gun to everyone's head to buy.

The very worst of socialism AND capitalism all rolled into one.

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Old 10-25-2018, 12:35 PM   #6
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...

Yeah, I thought so too. And that means you have to have someone do the research. And that drives up the cost.
Not all medical research is done in the US. Many other countries have world-leading research facilities but of course they cooperate with US researchers too.

Not all other countries have worse healthcare than the US. What many have is universal healthcare at an affordable cost paid for by insurance or taxation.
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:51 PM   #7
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:07 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by oggbashan View Post
Not all medical research is done in the US. Many other countries have world-leading research facilities but of course they cooperate with US researchers too.

Not all other countries have worse healthcare than the US. What many have is universal healthcare at an affordable cost paid for by insurance or taxation
.
The elephant in the room that every one of those countries ignore is that whenever those who can afford it want "the best" healthcare they come to the US. Every time that happens it is an admission that UHC is "second tier".

Yet you won't say that. Instead you keep talking about low cost while deflecting that the "low cost" is subsidized by "higher taxes".

The overall tax burned on UK income is 37.5%. Nearly the highest in 40 years.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-four-decades/

Compare that to the overall tax burden in the US at 26%.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...nternationally

Do your own math - how much of your gross income is 11%? Now compare that to the cost you pay for insurance premiums without UHC. Notice there's not much difference? So, if you can't afford to pay for HC out of your own pocket to get "the best" healthcare, UHC forces you to pay the approx same amount for "2nd tier" healthcare.

Who's the loser in that equation? The medical industry? The insurance co? The Gov? Or the consumer?

All UHC does is shift the money from a monthly bill to the insurance co to a deduction in your paycheck. And the consumer gets burned by the deal.

The elephant is very large and gray.
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:21 PM   #9
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There is quality, affordability and availability.

You can only have 2 out of the 3....because reality of a service exchange.

No different than an auto-shop.
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:28 PM   #10
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It is to make a profit.

In Canada, it is not.
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisArpy View Post
The elephant in the room that every one of those countries ignore is that whenever those who can afford it want "the best" healthcare they come to the US. Every time that happens it is an admission that UHC is "second tier".

Yet you won't say that. Instead you keep talking about low cost while deflecting that the "low cost" is subsidized by "higher taxes".

...
I have said that - many times. For many rare conditions the US is the best.

It's not 'low cost', it is cost of health care per capita. The UK, and most of Europe have lower cost of health care per capita than in the US for universal coverage. The overall cost of health care is significantly less and the figures include what is paid for universal health care AND private or insurance-funded health care.

In the UK and in many other countries we have universal health care AND private care funded by insurance and/or paying for it ourselves in addition to universal coverage. We have choice. We can use the NHS. We can buy health care in the UK or travel to other European countries, or the US, if we can afford it. Some European cities specialise in particular medical processes.

If a US citizen cannot afford health care insurance they do not have choice.

As for taxation? You need to aggregate tax rates AND US healthcare costs to do a reasonable comparison.
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by silver gurl View Post
It is to make a profit.

In Canada, it is not.
Except it's not here either.

It's to get government funding....not to make a profit.

The only customer who pays 500 bucks for an aspirin everyone else can get for 0.30$ off the shelf anywhere else are these heavily subsidized/controlled pseudo socialized insurance companies, which are really just billing agencies who have been green lighted on price gouging the government any chance they get for big pharma/medical supply industries.

I mean if they pay the max, why not charge it??

We need more funding!! Increase the debt limit!!! and on and on and on.

We either need to socialize it and hold the government accountable OR get them the fuck out and let the market work because ain't nobody paying no fucking 500 bucks for a god damn Advil except the government. The pseudo socialistic/capitalism hybrid experiment is a fucking disaster and needs to go ASAP.

The USA needs to quit trying to re-invent the wheel for a while at least, pick a better proven game plan and go for it without compromising it into total worthlessness for the sake of scamming.

At this point most M'aricans don't even give a shit which way we go they are however totally desperate for someone, anyone, to grow a god damn spine and just pick a direction. Been on top dead center about this for over 60 fucking years!!! Time to shit or get off the pot.

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Old 10-25-2018, 02:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Medical research is expensive.
N.B.: The only country in LA now doing it is Cuba.

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Which is the selling point of single payer - less quality for less price.
I have never seen a shred of evidence that the quality of health care is any less in Canada than here.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:13 PM   #14
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Except it's not here either.

It's to get government funding....not to make a profit.
That is as good a source of profit as any other, isn't it?

You're talking like one of those morons who insist public-sector employment "doesn't count" as employment.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:28 PM   #15
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That is as good a source of profit as any other, isn't it?
Not left unchecked, it's actually quite toxic, destructive and why we are up the shit creek we are when it comes to HC and a few other areas.

It's government control over the distribution of goods and services without ANY of the controls or accountability that full on socialism generally at least tries to provide, it's wealth redistribution to the super rich and why the 1% is who they are.

This is no different than the insane military spending with 2,000 dollar hammers that anyone else can get off the shelf at their local hardware store or Home Depot for 29.99......it's price gouging, it's wholesale pick pocketing the public of vast amounts of wealth. The Army doesn't need 2,000 dollar hammers anymore than the ER need 500 dollar a piece aspirins. That's the elites squeezing everyone else for all they can, power abuse plain and simple. It's power abuse that both sides engage in and both sides regularly got into total delusions and denial over to excuse themselves from while point the finger at each other.

What we have is the WORST of both socialism, capitalism and partisan zealotry all rolled into one giant shit burrito, and that shit has got to go.

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You're talking like one of those morons who insist public-sector employment "doesn't count" as employment.
How so? I never even hinted at anything of the sort.

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Old 10-25-2018, 02:43 PM   #16
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It is to make a profit.

In Canada, it is not.
Simply and accurately put.

Healthcare is a business in the US.
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Old 10-25-2018, 02:44 PM   #17
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Healthcare is a business in the US.
BAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA......no it's not, it's a government funded country club mafia, a mostly Democrat one.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:19 PM   #18
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BAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA......no it's not, it's a government funded country club mafia, a mostly Democrat one.
That would still be a business.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dominatrixjane View Post
why is healthcare so expensive in the usa?

and what has to happen?
There's a lot of factors. One of the biggest problems though is that the current system is not a free-market or government managed system, it's a bureaucratic fusion which ends up just being a wasteful mess.

Personally, I believe that free market solutions would solve the problem faster and better than the government...those guys can't even balance a budget.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:32 PM   #20
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That would still be a business.
Welfare for rich people is still welfare....not business.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:38 PM   #21
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Doctors make more in the States than any other country. It is a business.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:40 PM   #22
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Doctors make more in the States than any other country. It is a business.
Only because they can bill the government for 500 dollar a pop aspirins.

If farmers could sell food and bill the government hundreds even THOUSANDS of times MSRP for our product farmers in the US would make more than any other farmers too. Shit we'd be as rich as the doctors are!!

It's a welfare scam by the rich for the rich and given the authority to do so by the government.

Legalized extortion scams are called corruption, not business, not capitalism.

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Old 10-25-2018, 04:49 PM   #23
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Only because they can bill the government for 500 dollar a pop aspirins.

If farmers could sell food and bill the government hundreds even THOUSANDS of times MSRP for our product farmers in the US would make more than any other farmers too. Shit we'd be as rich as the doctors are!!

It's a welfare scam by the rich for the rich and given the authority to do so by the government.

Legalized extortion scams are called corruption, not business, not capitalism.
Doctors don't set the prices, hospitals do.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:53 PM   #24
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Doctors make more in the States than any other country. It is a business.
I've read that it costs around 450-500k of schooling to become a brain surgeon. I have also read that the British NHS has a massive shortage of doctors...salaries are a major factor.
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Old 10-25-2018, 04:58 PM   #25
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I've read that it costs around 450-500k of schooling to become a brain surgeon. I have also read that the British NHS has a massive shortage of doctors...salaries are a major factor.
Not salaries so much as lack of training places. The competition for medical degree courses is fierce. Once a doctor has the basic MD qualification they face another shortage of places to get advanced training.
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