Seldom-used words - M to A

Handley, I have .8 of an acre of land and the blackberries have at least a third of that all to themselves. I can't even walk through that area. I am talking about the flower gardens I am trying to create without the invasive berry vines taking over and killing everything. I have one especially sweet bush on a trellis against my house that makes the best blackberry cobblers. I don't make jam or jelly due to all the sugar involved, but here is a word that relates;

lekvar - noun (ca.1958) a prune butter used as a pastry filling

AllardChardon said:

Handley, I have .8 of an acre of land and the blackberries have at least a third of that all to themselves. I can't even walk through that area.

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I've seen English berry brambles, and I grew up in Oregon with the kind of bramble you're dealing with. I thought about letting Handley know there's a difference, but decided it is just something you have to experience to believe.

Weird Harold said:

I've seen English berry brambles, and I grew up in Oregon with the kind of bramble you're dealing with. I thought about letting Handley know there's a difference, but decided it is just something you have to experience to believe.

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My Australian relations had a problem with their version of brambles. They used two Sherman tanks with a heavy chain between them, followed by a towed flamethrower.

Even after deep ploughing the ashes to remove the roots, the Australian brambles kept reappearing every year until they used many gallons of then-illegal chemical brushwood killer.

That killed the brambles - and everything else, so they laid concrete and used it as a helicopter landing pad, which is what they wanted to do originally.

Harold, it is an experience most people would prefer to skip, if they knew better.

Og, that sounds like what I've got going over here. I love Tom Robbins and in one of his books about the Pacific Northwest he talked about the blackberry bushes completely covering his car in thorny vines while he slept at night. I laughed out loud at that. Recently, an old car was pulled out of the vines and God only knows how long it was held captive.

This word belongs here;

lek - noun (1871) an assembly area where animals (as the prairie chicken) carry on display and courtship behavior; also: an aggregation of animals assembled on a lek for courtship

oggbashan said:

Locally we have an apparent example of Lemures. There is an ancient Roman fort and people passing it a night have heard a baby crying when there is no baby around. During archaeological investigations in the 1960s, the skeletons of two babies were found in the foundations of a gate tower. They were given Christian burial in the local church's cemetery, but the sounds of a baby crying are still heard occasionally.

Were the babies buried as human sacrificies? Or were they the illegitimate children of sex between troops of the garrison and local women who just died young? 'In the foundations' seems to suggest the first theory, but they might have been buried there to honour them.

It is suspected that there are more infant burials than the two found so far. But at the time, Roman burials were normally OUTSIDE the walls of edges of a settlement, not in the walls, although some small infants were buried under the floor of a family room.

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Couple of points Og.

1 Under Roman law at the time of their occupation of Britain it was generally held that a child (baby) had no right to life unique to itself until it was observably capable of independent thought/communication - usually about one year old. The rights resided with the father until that time and he could if he wished, sacrifice the child with impunity.

2 Most Roman garrisons in the UK drew their soldiery from the borders of the Roman empire, Germany, North Africa Middle east etc. Child sacrifice, whilst not common was relatively so, particularly among people from Phoenecia and their colonies - Carthage being the best example where many child sacrifices have been found by archaeologists.

3 Re brambles (blackberries). They certainly are a major problem in OZ. My cousin had a single block of them of just under 100 acres plus many smaller ones. The best control methods were tethered goats which will eat them to ground level at least, and drought which slows them down a lot. Don't let the goats escape though, because they are soon a bigger problem than the brambles. There is no good method of getting rid of brambles except persistence, and giving other species help to replace them.

Finally Leke meant 'caught or taken' in OE

ishtat said:

Couple of points Og.

1 Under Roman law at the time of their occupation of Britain it was generally held that a child (baby) had no right to life unique to itself until it was observably capable of independent thought/communication - usually about one year old. The rights resided with the father until that time and he could if he wished, sacrifice the child with impunity.

2 Most Roman garrisons in the UK drew their soldiery from the borders of the Roman empire, Germany, North Africa Middle east etc. Child sacrifice, whilst not common was relatively so, particularly among people from Phoenecia and their colonies - Carthage being the best example where many child sacrifices have been found by archaeologists.

3 Re brambles (blackberries). They certainly are a major problem in OZ. My cousin had a single block of them of just under 100 acres plus many smaller ones. The best control methods were tethered goats which will eat them to ground level at least, and drought which slows them down a lot. Don't let the goats escape though, because they are soon a bigger problem than the brambles. There is no good method of getting rid of brambles except persistence, and giving other species help to replace them.

Finally Leke meant 'caught or taken' in OE

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Thank you, Ishtat.

The troops who built and garrisoned that particular fort were a mix from what are now Southern Spain and Morocco. But it was built late in the Roman period in Britain. Paternal rights over children at that time were not as severe as under the Republic. Human sacrifice would have been very unusual then.

The baby skeletons found showed no signs of trauma, nor even post mortem crushing of the bones after being built into the foundations. They were carefully interred in deliberate voids in the masonry.

The most recent report of the sound of babies crying was November 2015. In the summer the sounds would be unnoticed as the site is surrounded by caravans on a holiday park. That park closes in mid-October so there would be no babies, nor anyone, in the caravans.

oggbashan said:

Thank you, Ishtat.

The troops who built and garrisoned that particular fort were a mix from what are now Southern Spain and Morocco. But it was built late in the Roman period in Britain. Paternal rights over children at that time were not as severe as under the Republic. Human sacrifice would have been very unusual then.

The baby skeletons found showed no signs of trauma, nor even post mortem crushing of the bones after being built into the foundations. They were carefully interred in deliberate voids in the masonry.

The most recent report of the sound of babies crying was November 2015. In the summer the sounds would be unnoticed as the site is surrounded by caravans on a holiday park. That park closes in mid-October so there would be no babies, nor anyone, in the caravans.

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Yep, Tertullian was the last christian and Carthaginian writer to make extensive comment on this ritual. As he died round about 240 AD and he was propogandizing about the practice it was possibly still being done. Osorios in the fifth century also references it, but he was a historian and was anxious to emphasize the barbarity of the pagans, so he was probably a bit prejudiced and referring to the past. He even called his book, History against) the Pagans

But if the late date rules out sacrifice as it appears, it begs the question, Why? I guess we will never know.

ishtat said:

Yep, Tertullian was the last christian and Carthaginian writer to make extensive comment on this ritual. As he died round about 240 AD and he was propogandizing about the practice it was possibly still being done. Osorios in the fifth century also references it, but he was a historian and was anxious to emphasize the barbarity of the pagans, so he was probably a bit prejudiced and referring to the past. He even called his book, History against) the Pagans

But if the late date rules out sacrifice as it appears, it begs the question, Why? I guess we will never know.

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No. The archaelogists were puzzled. They were also surprised that the accounts of hearing a baby or babies crying were recorded at least 150 years before the skeletons were found.

In Vindolanda on Hadrian's Wall baby skeletons have been found buried under the floor of what would have been occupied rooms but they do not appear to have been sacrifices, just keeping the deceased child close to the family.

oggbashan said:

No. The archaelogists were puzzled. They were also surprised that the accounts of hearing a baby or babies crying were recorded at least 150 years before the skeletons were found.

In Vindolanda on Hadrian's Wall baby skeletons have been found buried under the floor of what would have been occupied rooms but they do not appear to have been sacrifices, just keeping the deceased child close to the family.

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I seem to recall l that the Romans built a pyre for the dead.
Perhaps the parents of the dead child could ill afford the costly arrangements ?

Handley_Page said:

I seem to recall l that the Romans built a pyre for the dead.
Perhaps the parents of the dead child could ill afford the costly arrangements ?

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It depends on when. Roman burials were the norm for most of the time when in England - outside towns alongside the roads leading to the town. Excavations outside St Albans/Verulanium have found some elaborate decorated lead coffins.

A most interesting exchange, gentlemen, about a subject I found mysterious and disturbing, meaning the baby skeletons in Carthage. I thank you for the information you supplied here.

On National Geographic channel there is a show called, "The Story of God with Morgan Freeman" and last week he went to an ancient settlement in the near East (in the Fertile Valley), where they buried their dead, in almost fetal positions, under the floor of their living spaced and did this for generations. A very interesting practice that must have involved some kind of embalming for it to be tolerable.

The first definition of this word caught me by surprise;

leghorn - noun [Leghorn, Italy] (1740) 1.a. a fine plaited straw made from an Italian wheat b. a hat of this straw 2. any of a Mediterranean breed of small hardy domestic chickens noted for their large production of white eggs

Catching up

Catching up on posts I would have made except that my references have been in storage while some storm damage to my home was repaired.

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lemures: A defective Latin noun meaning "spirits of the unburied dead..." according to one of Allard's posts. The word is plural and lacks a singular. If it had a singular, that singular might be lemur---which is the name given to a clade of primates found in Madagascar on account of their ghostly appearances.

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leman: Again according to a post from Allard, an archaic word meaning "sweetheart", "lover", or, esp., "mistress". Mackey (Lost Beauties of the English Language) says of this word:

leman, lover; originally applied to both sexes, but in progress of time, and in the improvement, or may be corruption of the language, applied solely to the female; and by a still later corruption, to signify a mistress, as distinguished from a wife.

Many a lovely lady and leman of knightes,
Swoonden and swelten for sorow of dith's dints.
(Piers Ploughman.)

Every maiden chose her lover,
Every knight his leman.
(Morte Arthur. [sic])

Of Ascalot, that maiden free,
I said you, she was his leman.
(MS. Ashmole.)

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Others from Mackey:
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leeze: to approve, to be highly in favour of anything.

Leeze me on the spinning wheel.
(Burns)

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leer: empty

This word is sufficiently common in every part of Devonshire; a leer stomach, an empty stomach.—Giffard.

A leer horse, a horse without a rider (empty), whence the phrase came to signify a led horse.—Nares.

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leath: cessation or soothing.

The leath of pain in sleep. (Unattributed.)

Related, maybe (?), to lethe?

AllardChardon said:

The first definition of this word caught me by surprise;

leghorn - noun [Leghorn, Italy] (1740) 1.a. a fine plaited straw made from an Italian wheat b. a hat of this straw 2. any of a Mediterranean breed of small hardy domestic chickens noted for their large production of white eggs

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Ah; use that term near those of a certain age and you'll remember a certain "Foghorn".

Carlus, welcome back and I am sorry to hear about the storm damage. I really enjoyed your posts. Thanks so much for adding them. Could you translate this for me, "Swoonden and swelten for sorow of dith's dints"?

Handley, yes, of course, that is exactly what I thought of, first and foremost. Foghorn Leghorn was always one of my favorite Warner Brothers cartoon characters, along with Speedy Gonzales.

legerity - noun (1561) alert facile quickness of mind or body

AllardChardon said:

Carlus, welcome back and I am sorry to hear about the storm damage. I really enjoyed your posts. Thanks so much for adding them. Could you translate this for me, "Swoonden and swelten for sorow of dith's dints"?

Handley, yes, of course, that is exactly what I thought of, first and foremost. Foghorn Leghorn was always one of my favorite Warner Brothers cartoon characters, along with Speedy Gonzales.

legerity - noun (1561) alert facile quickness of mind or body

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I'm mostly guessing here:

The words swoonden and swelten appear to be archaic past participial forms of the verbs swoon, faint, and swelt, perish. The word sorow is probably just sorrow, but in the freer spelling of a time long past. I imagine dith is death, also in less rigid spelling. And dint is a word still in use today, meaning "a blow or stroke". (Today's usage is a bit different, he said by dint of deep thinking...)

And Foghorn Leghorn was certainly hardy, but didn't seem very small...

As far as Warner Bros. are concerned, my favorite was The Roadrunner---but in the 40's and early 50's, before they gave the coyote a name and tried to generate those cartoons by having second rate cartoonists apply a formula.

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Storm damage is, I think, just some of the fecal matter that takes place. We're nearly done with it; all that remains is to move back into the parts of the house that had to be worked on. We spent a bunch of $$$ on it, so we may be eating dogfood ten years from now. But at least we'll have a nice place in which to eat it!

Carlus, we had our house built by a contractor in 1994, so everything is somewhat new, especially compared to the really old houses in the area. I'm grateful for the decision now, more than ever. Thanks for the translation tips, it makes sense if you know what the words mean. And yes, the original roadrunner was really great.

I especially like this word, which I learned about when researching river boat gamblers;

legerdemain - noun (15c) 1. SLEIGHT OF HAND 2. a display of skill or adroitness

Hello, posters.

An interesting entry;

left shoulder arms - noun (ca. 1918) a position in the manual of arms in which the butt of the rifle is held in the left hand with the barrel resting on the left shoulder; also: a command to assume this position

AllardChardon said:

Hello, posters.

An interesting entry;

left shoulder arms - noun (ca. 1918) a position in the manual of arms in which the butt of the rifle is held in the left hand with the barrel resting on the left shoulder; also: a command to assume this position

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That's the standard way, of my time in the military (particularly for the old .303 Enfield rifle). The Rifle bolt would fowl the right shoulder otherwise.

That's interesting, Handley. Thanks for that perspective.

I know we have discussed left-handed (sinister) before, but I'm not sure it was defined at that time.

left-handed - adj (14c) 1. using the left hand habitually or more easily than the right; also: swinging from left to right <a left–handed batter> 2. relating to, designed for, or done with the left hand 3. MORGANATIC 4.a. CLUMSY, AWKWARD b. INSINCERE, BACKHANDED, DUBIOUS <a left–handed compliment> 5.a. having a direction contrary to that of the hands of a watch viewed from in front: COUNTERCLOCKWISE b. having a spiral structure or form that ascends or advances to the left <a left–handed rope> 6. having or being the L-form molecular structure

AllardChardon said:

That's interesting, Handley. Thanks for that perspective.

I know we have discussed left-handed (sinister) before, but I'm not sure it was defined at that time.

left-handed - adj (14c) 1. using the left hand habitually or more easily than the right; also: swinging from left to right <a left–handed batter>
2. relating to, designed for, or done with the left hand
3. MORGANATIC
4.a. CLUMSY, AWKWARD
b. INSINCERE, BACKHANDED, DUBIOUS
<a left–handed compliment> 5.a. having a direction contrary to that of the hands of a watch viewed from in front: COUNTERCLOCKWISE b. having a spiral structure or form that ascends or advances to the left <a left–handed rope> 6. having or being the L-form molecular structure

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Sometimes known as "cuddy-handed".
We'd more likely say "a back-handed compliment".
If an action or process is described as "left handed", it may be thought more as 'unorthodox' rather than insincere or clumsy.

Handley, cuddy-handed is a new one for me. Thanks.

I have heard this one before, but wanted to add it, due to its age:

lees - noun plural (14c) the sediment of a liquor (as well) during fermenting and aging: DREGS

Lees has another meaning in Kent, UK.

It means pasture land, hence Brabourne Lees and Old Wives Lees:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabourne_Lees

http://www.chilham-parish.org.uk/owls.htm

That meaning of lees is useless, left-over, so land that doesn't have a use for agriculture.

AllardChardon said:

That's interesting, Handley. Thanks for that perspective.

I know we have discussed left-handed (sinister) before, but I'm not sure it was defined at that time.

left-handed - adj (14c) 1. using the left hand habitually or more easily than the right; also: swinging from left to right <a left–handed batter> 2. relating to, designed for, or done with the left hand 3. MORGANATIC 4.a. CLUMSY, AWKWARD b. INSINCERE, BACKHANDED, DUBIOUS <a left–handed compliment> 5.a. having a direction contrary to that of the hands of a watch viewed from in front: COUNTERCLOCKWISE b. having a spiral structure or form that ascends or advances to the left <a left–handed rope> 6. having or being the L-form molecular structure

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I've been following this particular line with interest; my husband is naturally left-handed, and he spent his school years (late 60's and 1970's) being constantly berated and belittled for not using his right-hand; one schoolmaster used to hit him every time he saw him using his left hand, and make him sit for hours writing lines with his right hand until he was literally crying with cramp. This went on until Will's older brother twigged what was going-on and came to the school, had a heart-to-heart with the teacher in question, and it all stopped. The fact Harry was 10 years older than Will, and a Royal Marine Commando meant the conversation was heartfelt and to the point; it all stopped after that.

Will had to train himself to become right-handed, as none of the surgical instruments at the time he began at medical school were readily available in left-handed versions, especially rectractors, arterial forceps, and scissors, and it was difficult anyway to rearrange everyone in the operating theater to be bass-ackwards to their normal positions and not throw their game off; I know when I had a left-handed intern or junior swabbing or closing for me it was off-putting for me to be constantly getting out of their way, or waiting for their hands to clear the area I needed to be, or actually batting their swabs out of my way while I was trying to tie-off or suture.

Both my parents were natural left-handers but at school in the 1920s they weren't allowed to write left-handed. Both of them became Telegraphists and the machines of that era were easy to use with either hand leading.

My father's writing was always difficult to read but he became sufficiently senior in his career to have a secretary who would take dictation. But he preferred to have his own typewriter. For some letters he could type faster and more accurately than his secretary so he used her (usually, but not always her) for routine correspondence.

My brother was ambidextruous. He could write, draw and paint equally well with either hand. One of his party tricks was to draw two cartoons of the person he was looking at - simultaneously with both hands, and the cartoons were different.

I describe myself as ambisinstruous - equally useless with any hand. I had the same range of artistic ideas as my brother but was incompetent to turn them into recognisable art works. My writing was and is as bad as my father's ever was, and I appreciated my secretary. She, and my wife, could read my scrawl. Very few other people could or can.

Two of my three daughters are lefties, and one is a doctor. But they can use both hands even if they are more competent with their left hands. They tend to use whichever hand is closest to the task unless it is complex in which case they use the left hand.

Following an attack of Polio at the age of 5 or so, my right arm is not as strong or even the same size as the left (this caused chaos with the Tailor).
So I write with my right hand, use most tools with my right, but shoot a pistol with my left (and a rifle in the right).
My military career was a mess of contradictions.