Bramblethorn
Sleep-deprived
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Posts
- 16,660
Splitting this off into a separate thread:
I've been meaning to start a thread about this, but from the other side of the equation. If you want to approach somebody else, whether it's a sexual proposition or just making friends, how do you avoid putting them in the position that bailadora described? It comes up a lot in "guy approaches woman" scenarios but can apply elsewhere too.
Some of the things I try to do:
#1: Be aware of power imbalances. Forget about what a nice person you are, just for a moment; how easy would it be for you to harm them, if you turned out to be a jerk? Physical power is an obvious example, but there are plenty of other types of power. If they're service staff and you're a customer in a place where "the customer is always right", you may have the power to get them fired. You might be an established and popular employee at a company where they're new and trying to fit in - even if you're officially at the same level with no managerial relationship to one another, you still have the ability to make it easier or harder for them to fit in. Or you might just be a confident and charismatic person dealing with a less-confident person who finds it hard to say "no" to somebody they admire.
Once you're aware of those power imbalances, look for ways to neutralise or minimise them in your interactions. If you're a big strong guy and you want to chat up a woman, do it in an open space with other people around.
If she's waiting tables where you eat, shift the conversation outside that setting as much as possible - e.g. rather than saying "hey, wanna date?" and putting her in a position where she has to answer then and there, and risk offending her, maybe give her your number and let her call you out of work time, if she's interested.
BTW, knowledge is power. Give them your phone number, tell them where you live, and let them decide whether they feel comfortable sharing back. Having friends around is also power.
#2: Don't require them to guess how to disengage. Like bailadora noted, the person who you've just approached doesn't always know whether it's safe for them to disengage. People have been killed for refusing a date.
Instead, frame the situation so that they don't need to make that judgement call. Be the one who disengages and let them choose to re-engage if they're interested. Rather than asking "Hey, wanna come back to my room?", you can tell them "Here's my room number, look me up later tonight if you're interested". Depending on the situation and the person they might still find that offer unwelcome, they might even be offended, but it's less likely to make them feel threatened.
#3: No pressure tactics. Avoid putting them in a situation where they have to make a decision right away - give them time to think about it, check up on you if they like, let a friend know where they're going, whatever.
#4: If they give you an answer, don't try to debate it.
If they keep knocking back specific invitations without giving an overall answer - "can't do tonight, I'm studying - can't do tomorrow, I'm working - etc etc" it gets tougher. They might be telling the truth, they might be trying to refuse without offending via an explicit refusal. If you're not sure, put the ball in their court: "here's my number, if there's a night that does work for you, let me know".
Those are some of mine - anybody else have thoughts on this?
I'm not saying that I think men should refrain from initiating contact with someone in whom they have an interest. I would just like for more men to do so with more sensitivity to the problems many women frequently encounter from disrespectful jerks. That may sound highly idealistic to some people. That's fine. I'll own it.
...
I think many women are unsure of how to disengage in a manner that's effective most of the time. I know I don't.
I don't want to give the impression that I walk about cringing from every man who is unknown to me. That's ridiculous. I have many wonderful encounters that leave me smiling, some to the extent that I facebook it. There are times I can read the context pretty well. But there are times when it fails me. And when an aggressive jerk steps beyond my comfort zone, I'm unsure of how to disengage without setting him off even further.
I've been meaning to start a thread about this, but from the other side of the equation. If you want to approach somebody else, whether it's a sexual proposition or just making friends, how do you avoid putting them in the position that bailadora described? It comes up a lot in "guy approaches woman" scenarios but can apply elsewhere too.
Some of the things I try to do:
#1: Be aware of power imbalances. Forget about what a nice person you are, just for a moment; how easy would it be for you to harm them, if you turned out to be a jerk? Physical power is an obvious example, but there are plenty of other types of power. If they're service staff and you're a customer in a place where "the customer is always right", you may have the power to get them fired. You might be an established and popular employee at a company where they're new and trying to fit in - even if you're officially at the same level with no managerial relationship to one another, you still have the ability to make it easier or harder for them to fit in. Or you might just be a confident and charismatic person dealing with a less-confident person who finds it hard to say "no" to somebody they admire.
Once you're aware of those power imbalances, look for ways to neutralise or minimise them in your interactions. If you're a big strong guy and you want to chat up a woman, do it in an open space with other people around.
If she's waiting tables where you eat, shift the conversation outside that setting as much as possible - e.g. rather than saying "hey, wanna date?" and putting her in a position where she has to answer then and there, and risk offending her, maybe give her your number and let her call you out of work time, if she's interested.
BTW, knowledge is power. Give them your phone number, tell them where you live, and let them decide whether they feel comfortable sharing back. Having friends around is also power.
#2: Don't require them to guess how to disengage. Like bailadora noted, the person who you've just approached doesn't always know whether it's safe for them to disengage. People have been killed for refusing a date.
Instead, frame the situation so that they don't need to make that judgement call. Be the one who disengages and let them choose to re-engage if they're interested. Rather than asking "Hey, wanna come back to my room?", you can tell them "Here's my room number, look me up later tonight if you're interested". Depending on the situation and the person they might still find that offer unwelcome, they might even be offended, but it's less likely to make them feel threatened.
#3: No pressure tactics. Avoid putting them in a situation where they have to make a decision right away - give them time to think about it, check up on you if they like, let a friend know where they're going, whatever.
#4: If they give you an answer, don't try to debate it.
If they keep knocking back specific invitations without giving an overall answer - "can't do tonight, I'm studying - can't do tomorrow, I'm working - etc etc" it gets tougher. They might be telling the truth, they might be trying to refuse without offending via an explicit refusal. If you're not sure, put the ball in their court: "here's my number, if there's a night that does work for you, let me know".
Those are some of mine - anybody else have thoughts on this?