BDSM: Questions and Answers

I am a new sub, as well as being new to literotica. Just wanted to commend you all! You all seem so articulate, well-versed, and caring enough to express your views on bdsm. The other sites don't compare to this one, I can tell I will enjoy my time here!!!

By the way, is it strange for me to view bdsm as some sort of therapy? I have been exploring for about 2 months now, and am learning more and more about myself in the process, it's not the kinky aspects that excite me most , but the self-discovery, journey, if you will....

WriterDom - re that coin thing

So VERY glad my hubby does not read this board

CuriousSub asked: By the way, is it strange for me to view bdsm as some sort of therapy?

Not at all. I know from personal experience, and the personal experience of a lot of BDSM friends, that becoming involved in this lifestyle can bring out all kinds of psychological events.

A word of warning - be sure to be upfront with any potential doms you might play with if you are dealing with some emotional crisis. I know that one time, at a very bad time in my life and marriage, I had such feelings of low self worth that I was emotionally and physically numb. I played feeling that way and was beaten very badly until the dom realized that I would not respond. Lucky for me I was playing with a dom that knew me fairly well and realized that things weren't right. But if I had played with someone that didn't know me, or know when to quit, I could have been really hurt. Stupid! So if you are dealing with psychological stuff, be careful of playing or at least only play with people you trust.

I don't blame him at all. I wanted to be beaten and I was playing with a dom I knew would play heavy. I was punishing myself. If you ever feel like that - don't play!

about the escapable/non-existent vs. unescapable bondage: I personally enjoy both. As a sub, being without bonds when being beaten makes me realize how much I want this pain. I have also had to beg for whippings while bound which ingrained in my mind that no matter how my body reeled I wanted this more. This may just be because I'm relatively new to this, but I thought some of this could still give some help. Once my Dom bound my ankles and wrists together loosely with bondage tape, ordered me to go to sleep for the night and I was so very content. I must admit I also enjoy being tied without chance of escape and totured to my Dom's pleasure. Then again, I enjoy forced and voluntary submission in an odd sort of balance which can be hard to manage for my Dom.

Oh and SteamyChik can I get that link as well?

Eris wanted to know: Oh and SteamyChik can I get that link as well?

You got mail!

WriterDom said:

I don't really think Velcro is for sissies. Lets try to keep a sense of humor here.

Click to expand...

That's what the was for, see? (I'm teasing you, new territory, I know. )

WD is right about the humor, though. I think BDSM has a very dark reputation. So, following his lead (not something I always do well ),any funny stories out there?

Kitten Eyes said:

any funny stories out there?

Click to expand...

None that I care to tell, but this is pretty funny



The Managed Dominance Plan
Author unknown




It was only a matter of time before managed care companies extended their famously compassionate, selfless concern for the well-being of clients to more personal areas of their subscribers' lives. We've just received word of a new pilot program exemplifying the vast, as yet untapped possibilities for creative market penetration by enterprising MCOs.

Welcome to Managed Dominance, a whole new way of thinking about dominance and submission. The Managed Dominance Plan (MDP) combines all the advantages of a traditional D/s network with important, cost-saving features.

How does it work?

Under the plan, you choose your Dom/me(s) from a network of prescreened, accredited Dominance Providers (DPs). You designate one of these DPs as your Primary Dominance Provider (PDP). If you do not designate a Primary Dominance Provider, one will be designated for you.

What's wrong with my current Dom/me?

If you're like most people, you are receiving Dominance services from a network of providers haphazardly patched together from your old relationships, leather bars and the Internet. Many of your current dominance providers may not meet national standards. Under Managed Dominance, your domination needs are coordinated by your designated PDP, who will ensure the quality of all your Dominant/submissive relationships and activities.

How do I know that the Plan's panel of Dom/mes is not made up of a bunch of losers who can't get subs on their own?

Our dedicated and highly trained Dominance Providers are committed to delivering Quality Dominance in a cost-effective manner. They have joined our network because they want to focus on acting like a Dom/me, rather than doing the paperwork and paying the high Domination expenses that have caused the cost of traditional Dominance to skyrocket.

What if I need a special Dom/me, say for public parties or sensory deprivation training?

Specialty Dom/mes are responsible for most of the unnecessary and expensive activities that burden already costly D/s relationships. Under the Managed Dominance Plan, your Primary Dominance Provider is qualified to provide most Dominant activities. However, your designated PDP may pre-approve your referral to a Special Dom/me within the Managed Dominance Network should your needs fall outside of the scope of his/her Dominance.

Suppose I want to see Dom/mes outside the Managed BDSM Network?

You may meet Dom/mes outside the Managed Dominance Network only in the event of a Dominance emergency.

What Dominant activities are covered under the Plan?

Restraining you
Appearing unsympathetic
Ignoring you
Petulance
Clothespins
Humiliation
Correction
Flogging
Chastity Training
Gagging

What Dominant activities are not covered under the Plan?

Room and board
Bending over backward (subs may be made to bend any direction)
Mind twisting
Giving a hoot
Going the extra mile
24/7
Real empathy
Aftercare
Rule setting
Using real whips

A simple call is all it takes. Sign up for the Managed Dominance Plan and rest easier knowing that all of your appropriate submissive needs will be met.

Who decides what's appropriate for me?

We do. Isn't that what Dom/mes are for?

Okay. THAT'S funny stuff, WD.
I'm copying it to send to all my kinky friends.

Where did you get it?
Is there anymore like it?


And i'm trying to come up with a couple of "okay THIS isn't going to work" moments in my personal BDSM history that are also funny, but i just haven't found that particular intersection yet. I'll keep rummaging the mems, though. You'd think there's been a time or two that could qualify.

Finally, please allow me to say that the coin idea is a new one in sadism, WD. Thank you very fucking much, from all the subs here.

cymbidia said:

Okay. THAT'S funny stuff, WD.
I'm copying it to send to all my kinky friends.

Where did you get it?
Is there anymore like it?


[

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from here http://www.wizdomme.com/humor/

*lol* Oh my .......

THANKS WD ... that was an excellent link and I sure had a DAMN good laugh ... specially about the Master/servant conversation *still giggling* .. and the "types of subs" .. so damn true!

I feel inspired to give the humouristic touch a go myself now *still chucking as I leave cyberspace*

OMG - too funny!!

My favorite parts:

How do I know that the Plan's panel of Dom/mes is not made up of a bunch of losers who can't get subs on their own?

Our dedicated and highly trained Dominance Providers are committed to delivering Quality Dominance in a cost-effective manner. They have joined our network because they want to focus on acting like a Dom/me, rather than doing the paperwork and paying the high Domination expenses that have caused the cost of traditional Dominance to skyrocket.

Click to expand...

What if I need a special Dom/me, say for public parties or sensory deprivation training?

Specialty Dom/mes are responsible for most of the unnecessary and expensive activities that burden already costly D/s relationships. Under the Managed Dominance Plan, your Primary Dominance Provider is qualified to provide most Dominant activities. However, your designated PDP may pre-approve your referral to a Special Dom/me within the Managed Dominance Network should your needs fall outside of the scope of his/her Dominance.

Click to expand...

Suppose I want to see Dom/mes outside the Managed BDSM Network?

You may meet Dom/mes outside the Managed Dominance Network only in the event of a Dominance emergency.

Click to expand...

Follow Ups

weddings

Aside from branding, a slightly more subtle thing you could incorporate into your wedding would be a take on the Pagen tradition of handfasting - where the hands of the couple are tied together by the celebrant.

The ties can be quite loose and merely for show, or very serious and sophisticated bondage.

Castle Keep in Las Vegas is a dungeon that hosts weddings and parties; their site is down, but you could call information in Vegas or try their site later:

http://www.lvdungeon.com/

floggers

Here's a good link on floggers:

http://www.babeland.com/catalog/coach2.html#flog_section

The best way I know to categorise floggers is "stingy" and "thuddy" degrees. This will depend on the material, the shape, and the length of the flogger.

Gor

I guess what I don't understand is why someone would throw themselves into a lifestyle based on a modern fiction series. I have a hard enough time understanding why someone would throw themselves into a lifestyle based on a 2000 year old fiction series, ie the bible.

I suppose one, like the other, fills a need that I can only comprehend intellectually. In any case, I hope my Gor comments were not taken offensively. I have sincerely tried to educate myself about this, and I still don't get it.

leather vs...

OK, I hate leather. That is to say, I like leather clothes and leather accessories like paddles and whips, but I do not like leather restraints. I find them bulky on a woman's body, unfeminine, and unattractive.

One day, I will fix this

--Bri

http://www.snakepitleatherworks.com/new/fangs-8-13-pics.html

I had my eye on this flogger that sold on ebay. I'd bought two thuddy ones from him. This looked like a great stingy one. I had paid between 60 and 80 for the others. This one bid all the way up to $225. I caught him when he first started selling them there. I guess the secret is out.

Gor:
I have to admit some prejudice against it right out front, before i say another word. However, my prejudices are (always, i hope) open to be changed with the judicious application of even some small bit of knowledge.

I'm almost ignorant about Gor and those who practice it for real, to be honest. I've read the books (before i knew there were poeple out there doing this for real, btw) and spent a bit of time in Gor chatrooms, in both IRC and Chatrolpolis, as a guest of one inhabitant or another, trying to make some sense of the whole thing.

I'm not stupid or naive. I'm not a newbie to any of this stuff. I know chat Gor can't be much like the five senses world Gor (living it doing it feeling it wanting it needing it) must be because i know that chat BDSM isn't anything much like anything i've ever done. However, as for so many of us, it was a place for me to gather some knowledge about the thing without actually going out there and doing it.

So, even allowing for the exaggerated emphasis on perfect serving form and different meanings to the colors of silk scarves and that rather off-putting Big Bad Sword-Wielding Master puffery so deeply ingrained in online Gor places, i'm *still* mystified as to it's allure.

However, and i don't say this lightly, i respect SteamyChik as someone who doesn't seem to be some simpering little pretender subbie and so, for her sake, i'm giving this whole subject another (and open-minded) look. I'm not sure this kinda BDSM (if it's even that - do y'all consider it that, Steamy?) will *ever* be for me but it's real enough for some, that's obvious.

Steamy?
If you will, tell us more, okay?
Just... pick a part and tell us, from your perspective, what;s the diff between a Gor lifestyle and a more mainstream BDSM lifestyle? What do you get out of it that you didn't get before you and He went there?

I'm very interested.

weddings
Oh Bri! You're a fount of info, as always!
Thanks for the link. I'm definitely going to check it out for us, whenever this occurs.
You and Mister Bri gonna come? ~wink~
Please be assured, if you do, that our ceremony won't have anything tied loosely, for show.
We're currently thinking singlesleeve, to be honest.
And a tight corset that leaves my breasts bare (for the ceremonial nipple piercing part of it).
Anyone want to back out on even thinking they'll attend?



tight bondage vs voluntary bondage
We're fans of both, though there is almost nothing that will cause me to begin sinking toward subbie headspace faster or more surely than to be held in tight, restrictive, unescapable bondage. I *really* love it.

Ahem.

Anyway, we like both.
There's a place for both.
Voluntary bondage is better for public situations, too, where anything black and leather and fastened with padlocks would be horribly out of place.

I'm beginning a slipstream literature search for info on BDSM flavored weddings and ran across this page on collaring.

Though directed a bit more toward onliner's than those of us out in the five senses world, it's still a *very* good assessment of the whole subject. It spells out clearly what the huge controversary is for some of us with the dichotomy between the real life, very serious obligations of a collar and the often play-time aspect of online collars, particularly the dread "velcro collar".

Anyway, it's a very good link, imo.
http://www.novicium.com/thecollar.html

Funny what you find right in your own city when you talk to folks in the "know"..................

We just found a place called the "ER" room............it is a store the has everthing Rubber.........you name it they have it.....if not they can get it.....Floggers...outfits.....all kinds of goodies........

Cymbidia said about Gor: However, and i don't say this lightly, i respect SteamyChik as someone who doesn't seem to be some simpering little pretender subbie and so, for her sake, i'm giving this whole subject another (and open-minded) look.

R - E - S - P - E - C - T I got some! Yea!

I think it is easier to look at the similarities of Gor and BDSM than the differences, because really, there aren’t that many differences.

First though, a disclaimer – IRC Gor is not the same as real life Gor. Because IRC is cyber-based, necessarily the ability to write descriptively and entertainingly is a must for any would be Gorean IRC slave. For anyone interested or involved in real life submission, IRC Gor is beyond silly. I have done my share of taking 30 minutes to serve a glass of paga (beer) while laughing my head off. IRC Gor is not the best place to obtain a realistic view of Gor. End disclaimer.

In Gor and BDSM, both incorporate communication, trust, negotiation, and commitment. Just like in BDSM, Gorean lifestylers communicate. That ongoing communication begins to establish the trust that is necessary to take it further. Just like in BDSM, Gorean’s both Masters and slaves, must establish trust. Just like in BDSM, Gorean slave girls would never submit to just any so-called Master without that initial foundation of communication and trust being established. And just like in BDSM, there are girls that will throw themselves at anyone’s feet just to get what they want and need, usually to their own (and the poor dom/master/top’s) regret. However, once that trust is established, just like in BDSM relationships, a song-and-dance of negotiation takes place. Now here is where things might differ. Negotiation means different things to different people. Some people negotiate a written contract. Verbal negotiations work for some. With a few, the trust is so ingrained by the time the negotiation should take place, there are no verbal negotiations – but, they know each other so well, there is a trust that neither would knowingly or purposefully hurt the other. In my instance, I am married to my Master and have been for 21 years. The concept of him using his dominance over me to hurt me, just because we are Gorean, is as inconceivable to me as Creidhne hurting you would be to you. Moving along, just like in BDSM, there is a commitment between the dom/Master and sub/slave. And just like in BDSM, that commitment is there until either party decides to end it. Because for all its reputation, Gorean lifestylers are very aware that real slavery, the kind where one person completely controls everything about another person, including life, is not feasible or even wanted in today’s world. Just like in BDSM, we consider that type of control abuse and against the law. Communication, trust, negotiation, and commitment are major similarities between BDSM and Gorean.

There are some differences between Gor and BDSM, although if looked at it closely – not really. A few of the differences are the controversy over safe words, the “but-will-you-kill-steal-etc-if-your-Gorean-Master-tells-you-too” question, the “but-we-live-in-the-U.S.-not-some-fictitious-planet-created-by-a-nut” accusation, total power exchange is it real or memorex, and the favorite – “if-you-are-a-Gorean-slave-then-suck-my-dick” attempt. Can't forget the difference between "play" and "punishment".

First, the safe word thing. Gorean’s are very fond of saying we do not use safe words. The slave is totally at the mercy of her Master. In my experience, I have never been around a Gorean slave girl that was not able to beg, plead, or scream her way out of any type of activity if she was really upset. Just like in BDSM, a Master (like a dom) would not purposely break his toy. He is concerned and loving and willing to stop any activity that seems to be upsetting his girl. Just like in BDSM, there are Master’s that will abuse their sub, but then, just like in BDSM, we see that as abuse and illegal as much as the next person. So, Gorean slave girls may not have a safe-word per se, but believe me – they do have a safe-look, safe-moan, or safe-expression that works just the same. It’s a semantics thing.

The “but-will-you-kill-steal-gossip-etc-if-your-Gorean-Master-tells-you-too” question is really not valid either. cymbidia, you just recently went through this same type of accusation because of your lifestyle. The same answers of why this is not so works for Gor also. First off, Gorean Master’s would never require anything illegal of their slaves. This would break the trust and therefore the bond, and therefore the relationship. Gorean slave girls may appear to put up with a lot, but in the end, they have the final say as to when it ends. And just like in BDSM, if a woman doesn’t know when something has gone from consensual to abuse, she needs help.

The “but-we-live-in-the-U.S.-not-some-fictitious-planet-created-by-a-nut” accusation is amusing as well. Gorean lifestylers incorporate what works for them out of the Gorean books. The Gorean books are really good at showing a loving Man/woman domination – yes, most of the time the Master was quite in love with his slave. And they treated them with loving sternness, patience and appropriate punishment when necessary – just like the dom/sub power exchange in BDSM. Just like in BDSM though, they throw out the ridiculous and keep the stuff that works for them, turns them on and fulfills their fantasies, all within the bounds of normal laws.

Total power exchange, living the life 24/7, has long been a controversy. I’m not sure I can answer it! However, I know that in a married Gorean relationship, there are times that he does the dishes and the laundry, and I handle the finances. There are many times that the weekends are the only chance we get to immerse ourselves in the Gorean lifestyle. The rest of the time it’s a tickle at the edge of our conscience, an anticipation of the night and closed bedroom doors, a knowing smile at an office party, a subtle expression that elicits an equally subtle reaction when among “vanilla” people. Just like BDSMr’s that live 24/7, it doesn’t mean that every move and breath is commanded as much as it is a mindset, the awareness that the domination is always there, even if hidden out of necessity.

My favorite is “if-you-are-a-Gorean-slave-then-suck-my-dick”. As a Gorean slave, I give my trust to my Master. He is the only one I am responsible for pleasing. He is the only one I need to obey. He would never put me at risk for disease and would never share me sexually with another. This is evident in the Gor books also; the Master’s rarely shared their slaves sexually with other men. Along those same lines, unless my Master commands me too, I do not even have to acknowledge other Masters/doms in any other way than basic politeness. If anything, Gorean Master’s would never ask a slave to do anything unless it was his own slave, or he had permission from the slave’s Master. This is much stricter in real life Gorean than anything I have seen in the BDSM real life world.

My Master wanted me to insert here that there is a big difference in the way punishment is used between Gor and BDSM. Gorean’s use punishment as a deterrent to disobedience. It is not fun, it is not “playing or scening” or a way to get into headspace – it is mentally and physically painful. For Goreans, the mental D/s aspect takes precedence over the S/m aspects of BDSM. It is not possible to be a SAM (smart-ass-masochist) Gorean slave. Gorean slaves try to be pleasing because that is what they enjoy. If they didn’t enjoy it, they would not try to be Gorean slaves. Master says that doesn’t mean that slaves don’t have their rebellious moments, (now why did he say that? ) just that the majority of the time, a slave enjoys her slavery. Along the same lines, this doesn’t mean that Gorean Master’s won’t “play” with their slaves. A Gorean Master enjoys making his slave dance for him under the whip, enjoys watching her body respond to the pleasure of the pain. It is often used as a reward for being found very pleasing. Many Gorean Master's and slave girls would leave the Gorean lifestyle if the infliction of pain (which is a large part of BDSM) was the main part of the Gorean lifestyle also.

So to sum up this really lengthy Gorean explanation, there is not that many differences between the Gorean lifestyle and the BDSM lifestyle except the way we describe things and the jargon. Gor is yet another way to practice BDSM with the emphasis on the D/s. If there is a difference that anyone thinks is glaring between BDSM and Gor, please ask and I'll see if I can address it - or undress it

Steamy

MistressHoney said:

My question for the panel of experts here is this: When dating, did you specifically look for someone interested in the lifestyle? Or was it more a cross-your-fingers hope that they could/would be interested?

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Meet someone outside the lifestyle and convert them? If you are a guy, then good fucking luck. There is a chance (and a better chance than you might suspect) you might get lucky and find someone interested, but in my early exploring days, I would have gotten a warmer reception from a couple of nilla girlfriends if I had asked to barbecue their left leg. A woman might have a better chance with a guy.

But I will tell you the bdsm chatrooms are overflowing with married women interested in bdsm with husbands that want no part of it. It's much easier to start on the same page than to come out to your partner later.

Yes, mainstream BDSM.

Except for one period in my life when i thought i was sick of being a "freak", had decided to try to be "normal", and so tried to find totally nilla men with whom to spend time, i have *always* actively searched out others like me.

But i learned this: Why begin a relationship with someone who will not fulfill one's basic sexual needs?

And, just to be clear about it, if someone is nilla, they are nilla. You're not gonna do much changing of them just cuz you realize later that you gotta have that part of your life back - and it's not fair to them, either.


(Still mulling over your post, Steamy. Lots to think about. Not ignoring you and your generous offering of time and wisdom.)

SteamyChik,

I just read your wonderfully informative post on GOR. It really doesn't sound that different from BDSM and I thank you for clarifying that for me.

I have more questions. Okay, call me retarded! What if there's something that you have refused to do before - such as swallowing. I know, dumb example but I know someone who is this way. Anyway, in GOR is that something that your Master could 'force' you to do? After all, it's not illegal. Is that something you'd have the right to refuse, I guess is what I'm asking. And is it also true that in GOR there are only female slaves and male masters? And would a female top be SOL when it came to GOR?

Originally posted by cymbidia
But i learned this: Why begin a relationship with someone who will not fulfill one's basic sexual needs?

Click to expand...

Exactly. This is the way I feel. After trying to have relationships with people who just couldn't complete me, I've decided to wait for someone that can. If I die single, that's just the way it will have to be.

WriterDom wrote - But I will tell you the bdsm chatrooms are overflowing with married women interested in bdsm with husbands that want no part of it.

I have never understood why men would not want to get into BDSM. I mean, you have this great wife, maybe marriage is getting a little dull, or maybe she has just always been into getting spanked - whatever - and she tells her hubby, "Hey baby, let's check out that BDSM stuff, you know, where you tell me what to do and I'll do anything you want all the time, sex anytime you want it, never say no. And on top of that, if we go to parties, most of the women will be naked!" Now, um, why would a guy turn that down?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MistressHoney

My question for the panel of experts here is this: When dating, did you specifically look for someone interested in the lifestyle? Or was it more a cross-your-fingers hope that they could/would be interested?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the sit back and observe mode, since I haven't dated since I was 16 - the people I know that met someone not in the lifestyle ended up getting out of the lifestyle. The relationship usually didn't last long. The ones I know that found someone through the lifestyle have been very happy, and quite a few of them have gotten married. I think if BDSM is real important to you, you have to check it out in the beginning so you don't waste your time.

cymbidia thoughtfully wrote - (Still mulling over your post, Steamy. Lots to think about. Not ignoring you and your generous offering of time and wisdom.)

Lot of time - not sure about the wisdom! You're a sweetie, thanks

Blackbich wondered about the Gor thang: I have more questions. What if there's something that you have refused to do before - such as swallowing. Anyway, in GOR is that something that your Master could 'force' you to do? After all, it's not illegal. Is that something you'd have the right to refuse, I guess is what I'm asking. And is it also true that in GOR there are only female slaves and male masters? And would a female top be SOL when it came to GOR?

That is a good question! In BDSM and Gor, slaves/bottoms/subs have their "soft" limits. By that, I mean that there are activities that they do not enjoy doing, but if they were ordered to them, it would not physically or mentally harm them. So, that is a limit that a Master might want to push. Taking into account a desease free couple, or long-time married monogamous couple where swallowing would not pose a health risk - I would say that this is a limit that would definately by pushed. But remember, the nature of a Gorean slave girl (or a very devoted submissive) will make her want to please her Master if it is within her abililty. So the answer is yes. A Gorean Master will force his slave to do things she considers unpleasant, or things she may be afraid of as long as it would not harm her. I don't cosider this aspect strictly Gor because pushing a slave/subs/bottoms limits is part both Gor and BDSM, B&D, S&M and D/s. (I love having my limits pushed! )

Actually, in the Gor series, there were male slaves and therefore Mistresses. However, the mainstream Gorean group is made up of mostly dominant men with the women as slaves. Dominant women are tolerated only if they are still submissive in nature to a certain degree. And then, male slaves are not tolerated at all. I would say that in general, Fem Dommes and male subs belong in the BDSM world more than the Gorean. That is just my own personal experience. There may be other Gorean groups somewhere that incorporate both.

I simply wanted to state, not meaning to be funny even.
I bow to this thread and it's participants. Finally, a place where questions are honestly answered without making us feel sick or wierd. Where you with real experience can help us new to the life understand what it is, and isn't. I have learned so much reading, and rereading and rereading this thread. And the links you have shared. The bits of your personal lives put here to show us.

Simply, Thank you. I don't feel so odd now, so alone in my questing.

What's the difference between bull hide and deer skin floggers? I've never actually asked what they were made of, I used a more hands on approach, but looking for things online it makes things a bit more difficult. How would I recognize teh feel of one or the other or other common materials?

Thank you,
Eris

"Hands on" is the best way to choose a flogger.

Deer skin is usually softer, more supple to the touch. It's lighter in weight. A flogger made of deerskin is often thought of as a "thuddy" flogger. Think "suede".

Bull hide is often stiffer, thicker, heavier. The sting is more pronounced. "Think "purse leather".

Both of these can be like the other if prepared in that way, of course. These are just basic generalities.

When purchasing a flogger, if you can, touch it. Pick it up. Heft it from hand to hand. See how the tails flow and move as you swing it. Smeil it (for rancidity, and for that incomparably good "leather" smell). Drag the thing over your bare skin, an arm of something, and slap it down lightly, too, if you won't feel uncomfy.

Choose the one you like best, regardless of the materials from which it has been fashioned.


(Merelan? You're an incredible sweetie. )

Eris asked about deerskin and bullhide.

Basically what cym said except that suede is actually a bit stingy. Suede is a thin, slightly rigid leather with a "brushed" skin and the edges of the traces are "sharper". Deerskin - there is nothing stingy about deerskin which is why it is used often by many players. It's a great little warmup leather that provides a nice nasty "whump" without any pain at all. Sure sounds impressive though . Of course, deerskin is made from deers.

Bullhide is made from the thicker, tougher hide from a bull. Depending on how it is tanned, it is usually a very thick, very heavy leather. It provides a complete THUD when used - think being hit with it and having to take a step forward from the impact - but is not stingy.

Deerskin is a lightweight caress or thud, depending on how many traces there are and bullhide will provide you with a nice big thud every time.

Both are great additions to the toy bag.

Is it just me, or does talking about this stuff make anyone else, um, hot?