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I hate these stories, but not for what seems the usual, obvious reason.

jsmiam said:
To the OP, you raise all good and valid points, and I even agree with you. Unfortunately, in erotica, it's just a fact, that almost all stories are very easily ruined if you think too much and add "However, in real life, you would" to the story:

So yes. We're all here because on some level, even knowing it's partly impractical, we like erotica in some way. We just have to remember not to think too much.
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Well, it depends: if you define "erotica" as a fictional examination of all things sexual, there is room for stories about how outcomes can go really wrong or even just be merely disappointing. That kind of thing can be interesting too even if not at the height of popularity. So Hypoxia - "We don't want no stinking Real Life around here. This is LIT fantasyland. Wail." - shouldn't be too discouraged.

I had a story about someone getting stood up on an Internet-site based date; probably that happens all the time in real life. I meant it to be sort of comic rather than horrible, but it didn't go over well in the Romance section. Somebody even told me it belonged in Non-erotic. After some thought I decided not to move it.

https://www.literotica.com/s/love-is-the-drug
 
Hypoxia said:
We don't want no stinking Real Life around here. This is LIT fantasyland. Wail.
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Yeah it is a really weird thought space in the 'sex is bad violence is good' mindset that is so common in most critics of arts.

Shoot a bunch of dudes, chop off daddy's head (boba fett) blow stuff up, PG.

Show a little tit, R.

Everyone understands rape is terrible. So is murder. Yet some people just insist on getting all wound up about fictional rapes, but hardly anyone protests any number of books (Hannibal) that are handbooks for how to get away with murder/torture. Clearly both rape and murder occur in the real world, so why hate on one fiction and not the other?

I can't wrap my head around this disconnect. Is it the same in other countries or just the US?
 
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding your complaint. What do you want a nonconsent story to read like?
 
I think he's saying (I assume it's a male) that movies and television tolerate more violence than sex, at least as it was qualified by the film ratings system. That was probably true in the past.

The movie The Accused did depict a rape rather explicitly and then went on to the criminal case developed against the men in the bar - including at least one who didn't actually penetrate the victim.

As for Literotica: I don't know if such a story would be accepted or rejected - the plot being that the woman didn't enjoy it but the perpetrators are eventually punished by the legal system. I doubt anyone has submitted such a story here.
 
astuffedshirt_perv said:
I can't wrap my head around this disconnect. Is it the same in other countries or just the US?
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I blame patriarchial monotheism.

storm_usmc said:
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding your complaint. What do you want a nonconsent story to read like?
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Victim enjoys being raped but rapist is punished, right? Same as IRL. :devil:

gunhilltrain said:
As for Literotica: I don't know if such a story would be accepted or rejected - the plot being that the woman didn't enjoy it but the perpetrators are eventually punished by the legal system. I doubt anyone has submitted such a story here.
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I've a Book of Ruth episode where a politically-connected rapist, immune from prosecution, is killed by the victim's husband. In another episode, the male narrator is drugged and essentially raped by his sister and her girlfriend, without retribution. Should I have sent them to court?

I'm not attracted to NonCon -- my one entry there was intended for Loving Wives -- but if/when I write again, I might explore the varied responses by gender balance. Are they M->M, M->F, F->M, F->F, gang, what? How likely are any perpetrators to be punished, legally or otherwise?
 
Bill_Cosplay said:
I thought that the entire internet was a fantasy land, except for sites ending in -pedia.
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Oh, even there it's easy, at least for a while. It is not without reason wikipedia isn't accepted as reference in any educational institution worth it's salt.

I generally agree however, that too much of a blatant reminder about all the ways a fantasy could and likely would fail or blow in the face in the 'real world' can ruin a story for some readers looking for nothing but little gratification.

The question then could be, are stories dealing with the unwelcome outcomes erotica? The act itself can still be depicted as erotically as ever, including the one sided case. It is later when shit hits the fan, one way or another. Generic punishment for the aggressor could be seen as cheap band-aid however.

That (in my understanding) is the reasoning behind not accepting snuff here, deriving sexual pleasure from murder is deemed unacceptable, even if it is also pleasurable to the victim, and there is little discussion about that. However, in my opinion it makes it even more surprising we are forced to depict rape as pleasurable for both parties. Or is it perceived that deach by definition couldn't be?

Rape where neither party received any pleasure could be realistic (as a subset), and probably more morally acceptable, but adding value of erotic entertainment for such story wouldn't be trivial, although not impossible (easier perhaps in video, where one could enjoy nudity regardless of context).

Or there could be stories like this my proposal: No means NO, enforced brutally
 
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LupusDei said:
Oh, even there it's easy, at least for a while. It is not without reason wikipedia isn't accepted as reference in any educational institution worth it's salt.
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I forget to add this beauty: :rolleyes: to the end of my sentence.
 
LupusDei said:
Oh, even there it's easy, at least for a while. It is not without reason wikipedia isn't accepted as reference in any educational institution worth it's salt.
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The proper way to cite wikipedia in academia is to include the exact time and date of the article being cited.

Its a strong enough social influence now that it cannot be ignored in many fields; the contents of wikipedia have an effect on the social sciences that cannot be ignored.
 
LupusDei said:
That (in my understanding) is the reasoning behind not accepting snuff here, deriving sexual pleasure from murder is deemed unacceptable, even if it is also pleasurable to the victim, and there is little discussion about that.
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The simple reason is that Laurel, site owner and controller, does not find mayhem and sexual murder erotic.
 
Hypoxia said:
The simple reason is that Laurel, site owner and controller, does not find mayhem and sexual murder erotic.
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I'm sure she doesn't find them erotic, but she's also trying to protect the site. There are people out there, for various political and cultural reasons, that would want to see a site like this shut down or at least restricted in some way. (Not all of them are on the political right.) Laurel actually gives us a great deal of leeway.
 
gunhilltrain said:
The movie The Accused did depict a rape rather explicitly and then went on to the criminal case developed against the men in the bar
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random story about The Accused: way back when i was in college we showed second run movies in a lecture hall for like a buck. I was part of the group that did it. One night I was TOTALY wasted and stopped by...cause there was this girl, right. Anyway, somehow I get talked into being the projectionist. And I am way wasted. There were 4 reels of film to show, but I was so drunk i replayed reel 1 after reel 3. Took me a few minutes to figure out how to fix that.

damn drunk college kids.
 
Hypoxia said:
I've a Book of Ruth episode where a politically-connected rapist, immune from prosecution, is killed by the victim's husband. In another episode, the male narrator is drugged and essentially raped by his sister and her girlfriend, without retribution. Should I have sent them to court?

I'm not attracted to NonCon -- my one entry there was intended for Loving Wives -- but if/when I write again, I might explore the varied responses by gender balance. Are they M->M, M->F, F->M, F->F, gang, what? How likely are any perpetrators to be punished, legally or otherwise?
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Well, I wasn't saying that fiction had to perfectly reflect reality. Revenge for rape outside of the legal system is a good topic for a story. However, it is probably true that many if not most vigilantes and revenge-seekers get into trouble themselves - not necessarily in the movies however!

How many perpetrators get caught and punished? There are statistics available about that, although I don't know how reliably they show what is really happening. There is uncertainty about how many rapes are actually reported.
 
gunhilltrain said:
How many perpetrators get caught and punished? There are statistics available about that, although I don't know how reliably they show what is really happening. There is uncertainty about how many rapes are actually reported.
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I was thinking more of how rape and non-con can be and are handled in fiction, not reality. The reality is horrible -- we know that. In LIT fantasyland as well as the mainstream, authors explore and exploit many improbabilities for entertainment. What happens in literature to rapists and victims of various status and relationships.?
 
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My wife has confided in me that she has a rape-fantasy, but it is not because she wants her clothes to be ripped off, or be brutally taken; she has always had a low self-esteem, and loves the thought of a man wanting her so bad, that even if she says no, he still takes her. Those are her words, not mine.

But we cannot roleplay this because we are not sure how. We do have rough sex, and do it in some awkward places to keep our marriage spiced up, but I could never really do what she fantasizes; I love her too much.

But I have written non-consent stories in the past, and now write ones for her eyes only, and that really works for us...kind of my gift specific to her. I also tell her all the time how proud I am of her, and really try to undo the upbringing she had.
 
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Hypoxia said:
I was thinking more of how rape and non-con can be and are handled in fiction, not reality. The reality is horrible -- we know that. In LIT fantasyland as well as the mainstream, authors explore and exploit many improbabilities for entertainment. What happens in literature to rapists and victims of various status and relationships.?
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The most extensive fiction I can think of was probably the Law and Order: Special Victims Unit TV show, which seemed to do a fairly good job of it. It seemed to go outside of the viewer's comfort zone at times - is that a good thing? Yet is was popular.

I mentioned the Jodie Foster movie from twenty years ago. There was a made-for-TV movie with Elizabeth Montgomery in the early '70s.

As for novels and short stories: I can't recall anything offhand, but I'm sure I'm missing something.
 
jsmiam said:
True story: One college job I had was a supermarket near a big University. One night a bunch of freshmen frat-boy frat-pledge types came through my line. One was giddy with excitement, bragging to me, because they were "on their way to a gang bang". His purchase? A huge plantain. And a zucchini. (I shall explain: Unlike the legendary cucumber, the zucchini and plantain both have porous and rough surfaces, including being most definitely NOT round in the case of the plantain.) Imagine the condition of the drunken passed out girl the next morning (not surburban Maryland, btw...) after that genius got through inserting the plantain in her vagina. That inexperienced 19 year old (yes, idiot, moron, insensitive jerk, fill in the blanks) had no concept of reality, and was basing his upcoming experience on whatever variety of misinformation he had experienced up to that moment in his life. Including perhaps "she's gonna LOVE this plantain in her vagina."
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And you just scanned his groceries and wished him “happy rapin’!”? Unbelievable.
 
gunhilltrain said:
I'm sure she doesn't find them erotic, but she's also trying to protect the site. There are people out there, for various political and cultural reasons, that would want to see a site like this shut down or at least restricted in some way. (Not all of them are on the political right.) Laurel actually gives us a great deal of leeway.
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Most of the censorship comes from the left these days.
 
I think the big thing is that it is very hard to pull off while maintaining the believably of the characters. Interestingly enough, I've got a serial in the works that kind of goes down the same path, but with narrative justification for why the girls respond that way.
 
Zeb_Carter said:
One point...

Rape, real rape of a woman or a man, is not about sex, as Jada59 has said, but it's also not about violence, it's about control.

It's about taking that control away from the person that is being raped. It's about controlling their response to the rapists actions. The more afraid you act, the feeling of control increase in the rapist. The more you fight the rapist, the less control they feel they have. That's when they get violent or they give up and runaway.
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Real rape is about sex. Against Our Will, the feminist writer, Susan Brownmiller helped to turn public perception, aided by Hollywood, that rape is about power. Power is a dynamic of rape, just as leashes and and collars and furry butt plugs are an aspect of pet play, and walks on the beach after a candlelit dinner are part of romance, but sex is the goal. Rapists who runaway don't want to get caught.

I remember watching a true crime show where a 911 operator stopped a rape by talking dirty to the rapists who picked up phone while his would-be victim ran upstairs to hide.

Andrei Chikatilo, a Russian serial killer, would murder and masturbate, that was how he was able to get sexually aroused - no need for sex, no need to murder.

Some people do get off on power, that's not to be ignored, but if it was only the power, then the rape would be unnecessary. Rapists rape for sex, even the sadistic ones, everything that goes along with it is foreplay, routine, and deviant sexual experimentation.
 
Charmolypi said:
And you just scanned his groceries and wished him “happy rapin’!”? Unbelievable.
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This is an interesting reply. Please let us know what you would have done? Let's set groundrules too: It's 10:00 p.m.; Your job is a grocery store checkout person; the customer is an idiotic teenager, where the odds of things really happening as he is hoping are probably quite slim; he is purchasing vegetables; there are people in line behind this person; and you need to still have a job afterwards. Please proceed?
 
To the OP. If you hate the formula used in Non consent/ Relictance stories and want to read the horror side ascit truly is, authors are at a little more leisure in the Science Fiction/ Non Human categories. Though rape is brutal, and there must be enjoyment at some point from the victim, I fail to see how either would apply to a ghost. They aren’t alive to feel the pain as it is perceived.

Bottom line, the non consent reluctance category isn’t the only place on this site to find those types of stories.🌹Kant👠👠👠
 
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