Punctuation within/without Quotation Marks

I have just had a story rejected for the reason that:

We follow the convention that has commas and ending punctuation inside of the quotation marks, rather than outside of them. If you're wondering what it looks like, check out the essay "How to Make Characters Talk" in our Writer's Resources section (link below) for more information.

Click to expand...

For a start, you are not consistent in your policy because, since I am writing in the English language, I always follow the English convention and I have never had a story rejected on those grounds before.

Secondly, having been taught how to write English in England, I have no intention of changing to the sloppy, bastardised version you use in America.

Thirdly, I might remind you that you Americans use the English language only by licence - and you can't even spell that word properly. Privileges that you received from Britain as an automatic right when you had colonial status were withdrawn under the Treaty of Paris 1782. As you may have noticed from our recent referendum result and our performance in the Olympics (GB: population 65 million; 27 gold medals. US: population 322 million; 46 gold medals), we Brits are resurgent. We can very easily revoke your licence to use the English language and will not hesitate to do so if we have any more of your nonsense.

Now, back to my writing labours!

norfolklad said:

...We can very easily revoke your licence to use the English language and will not hesitate to do so if we have any more of your nonsense...

Click to expand...

Or if you vote for Donald Trump.

I find that a bit odd indeed. I've seen stories with British spelling on here which were apparently not rejected, and from my point of view this should be the same case with the punctuation in- or outside of the quotation marks. Putting them outside is perfectly correct in British, so I don't see why they would reject it for that reason.

ThisNameIsntTakenYet said:

I find that a bit odd indeed. I've seen stories with British spelling on here which were apparently not rejected, and from my point of view this should be the same case with the punctuation in- or outside of the quotation marks. Putting them outside is perfectly correct in British, so I don't see why they would reject it for that reason.

Click to expand...

Indeed so.

And in this case:

‘By which, I take it’ – I took over the conversation – ‘that you would be willing to consider it with me.’

Click to expand...

putting the dashes inside the quotation marks would be nonsensical. The British rule makes sense. Punctuation goes where it belongs (unless we decide otherwise). So, if a question mark is part of the quoted speech, it goes inside the quotation marks, but if a comma is inappropriate in the quoted speech, it doesn't belong within the quotation marks. Thus, there should be no comma in:

'I asked if he had stolen my pen but he refused to answer.'

Thus: 'I asked if he had stolen my pen,' John said, 'but he refused to answer.' is plainly wrong. It adds a comma to the speech where none existed and where it is inappropriate.

The correct version can only be: ''I asked if he had stolen my pen', John said, 'but he refused to answer.'

Harbour no doubts about it.

norfolklad said:

I have just had a story rejected for the reason that:



For a start, you are not consistent in your policy because, since I am writing in the English language, I always follow the English convention and I have never had a story rejected on those grounds before.

Click to expand...

For starters, you are talking to the wind. The Lit. editor isn't here. You can PM Laurel directly, if you like, via PM, but you aren't talking to anyone here who can do a damn thing for you. And, as far as I can see, Laurel only rarely looks in the forum, if ever.

Beyond that, this is a U.S.-based site and uses the U.S. editorial style. It shouldn't be a surprise if it wants U.S. style in its story file. I agree, though, that it doesn't enforce U.S. style only consistently (probably based on not knowing all the differences between U.S. and British style) and I can see where that leads to frustration by those writing in the British style and occasionally being told that's not Lit. style (it isn't).

But the bottom line, in seeing the attitude you are taking, is that this can just be your problem--and I reiterate that if you want to talk to Lit. policy, you are just spitting in the wind to complain about it on this forum. PM Laurel directly.

Or maybe trot off to a British-based site and take your prejudices with you.

sr71plt said:

For starters, you are talking to the wind. The Lit. editor isn't here. You can PM Laurel directly, if you like, via PM, but you aren't talking to anyone here who can do a damn thing for you. And, as far as I can see, Laurel only rarely looks in the forum, if ever.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I've resubmitted with a copy of my comments.

Beyond that, this is a U.S.-based site and uses the U.S. editorial style. It shouldn't be a surprise if it wants U.S. style in its story file. I agree, though, that it doesn't enforce U.S. style only consistently (probably based on not knowing all the differences between U.S. and British style) and I can see where that leads to frustration by those writing in the British style and occasionally being told that's not Lit. style (it isn't).

Click to expand...

When I submitted I selected 'English' in the language box. I didn't see a choice for 'American'.

But the bottom line, in seeing the attitude you are taking, is that this can just be your problem--and I reiterate that if you want to talk to Lit. policy, you are just spitting in the wind to complain about it on this forum. PM Laurel directly.

Or maybe trot off to a British-based site and take your prejudices with you.

Click to expand...

Which reminds me that it's not only language that separates us but the inability to understand a wry sense of humour.

norfolklad said:

When I submitted I selected 'English' in the language box. I didn't see a choice for 'American'.

Click to expand...

Again, with that attitude, I suggest you trot off to a British-based Web site.

sr71plt said:

Again, with that attitude, I suggest you trot off to a British-based Web site.

Click to expand...

As I said, humour does not survive the journey across the Atlantic.

"The American sense of humour is generally more slapstick than that in Britain. I think this arises from a cultural difference between the two. Their jokes are more obvious and forward, a bit like Americans themselves. British jokes, on the other hand, tend to be more subtle but with a dark or sarcastic undertone."

Click to expand...

English Humour vs. American Humor – Is There a Difference ...

Strange, because Charlie Chaplin, one of the greatest exponents of slapstick, was English, born in Walworth, London. He was in the workhouse school at the same time as my grandfather. Chaplin's father vanished, his mother was committed to a mental asylum. My grandfather's parents were both dead before they were 50.

In a surprise move, I will say I agree with sr71plt. This is an American site. Why would an American site use British conventions? You would not expect The New York Times to make exceptions.

As for British humor being superior in its subtlety... no, I got the joke. It just didn't seem particularly funny.

You're being quite insulting. I assume you are doing it on purpose. To what end I know not. I never did understand trolls.

I think it would be good if a site like this accepted both U.S. and British conventions (as long as they are internally consistent). And apparently a lot of stories with British conventions do get through here. But to accept both, you have to understand both, and, where they are different, the British ones can be very complex (I have edited for mainstream publishers using both of these conventions). I don't think the editor here fully understands British conventions (I still don't either--and have to do a lot of looking up), but I don't think she should be faulted for not mastering both systems. It's a U.S.-based site that uses U.S. editing conventions.

If Brits, Canadians, South Asians, or Aussies can't live with that, they can go find story sites based elsewhere. I can pretty well guarantee you--with the OP's attitude exhibiting this clearly--that a British story site is going to give short shrift to a story submitted with U.S. writing conventions.

The OP just started off with a bad attitude. So, while I have sympathy for those following other styles to be able to post stories here, I have little sympathy for those taking the superior and dismissive attitude about the reality of differing conventions and that this is a U.S. site that the OP has. No big loss to Literotica.

norfolklad said:

When I submitted I selected 'English' in the language box. I didn't see a choice for 'American'.

Click to expand...

You must be blind then, it clearly is English 'murrican'. Can't you see the flag?

FAIL​

And yes, grammatical rules from Britain make 200% more sense. They match both my Spanish and Portuguese grammar rules of "How to write dialog", I said to no one "DAMN IT".

But I've run into the same issues as you, so we abide or no upload, unfortunately.

norfolklad said:

I have just had a story rejected for the reason that:

For a start, you are not consistent in your policy because, since I am writing in the English language, I always follow the English convention and I have never had a story rejected on those grounds before.

Secondly, having been taught how to write English in England, I have no intention of changing to the sloppy, bastardised version you use in America.

Thirdly, I might remind you that you Americans use the English language only by licence - and you can't even spell that word properly. Privileges that you received from Britain as an automatic right when you had colonial status were withdrawn under the Treaty of Paris 1782. As you may have noticed from our recent referendum result and our performance in the Olympics (GB: population 65 million; 27 gold medals. US: population 322 million; 46 gold medals), we Brits are resurgent. We can very easily revoke your licence to use the English language and will not hesitate to do so if we have any more of your nonsense.

Now, back to my writing labours!

Click to expand...

Interesting. I've never read or edited any Lit stories that used British punctuation. It appears to happen, as you have had them accepted. It's not something I would want as an editing project, though, because it's hard enough to edit something by American standards. I edited a story by a Canadian Lit author once. It drove me crazy. Nice guy and great story, but we both had our standards and neither one of us wanted to budge, and he knew up front I edited according to US standards. I advised him to either find a Canadian VE or someone who didn't mind Canadian standards. Oh, the Brits have a lovely sense of humor. I've inherited it. Well, that's one way of looking at it, I guess. Can we send Fuhrer Trump to your lovely island for an extended stay? Pretty please?

LadyVer said:

Interesting. I've never read or edited any Lit stories that used British punctuation. It appears to happen, as you have had them accepted. It's not something I would want as an editing project, though, because it's hard enough to edit something by American standards. I edited a story by a Canadian Lit author once. It drove me crazy. Nice guy and great story, but we both had our standards and neither one of us wanted to budge, and he knew up front I edited according to US standards. I advised him to either find a Canadian VE or someone who didn't mind Canadian standards. Oh, the Brits have a lovely sense of humor. I've inherited it. Well, that's one way of looking at it, I guess. Can we send Fuhrer Trump to your lovely island for an extended stay? Pretty please?

Click to expand...

Only if he promises to spend the whole time on one of his golf courses with no press and TV cameras around and, ideally, at the far end of the driving range. We've got quite enough problems with Farage and the crackpots who want to succeed him.