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#metoo

MeekMe said:
^^ OP has had trust problems with his “subs” in the past. This thread doesn’t surprise me.

#metoo has nothing to do with “strengthening” false allegations. It has everything to do with showing how wide spread the problem many women face is.

#metoomotherfucker
Click to expand...

You lay with pigs, you get covered in shit.

I'm sure that's someone's kink.
 
Affirmative consent and the #metoo movement have effectively changed the standard of proof in law from "innocent until proven guilty" into "the accuser must be believed before the fact trier hears evidence." This tilts the balance in a "he said/she said" case.

That means that some of the old practices that many of you advocate, like just have lots of long chats about BDSM, is out the window. Oh, you might get away with that for a while, but a false allegation plus the new standards are a toxic combination. You might think that nobody ever makes false allegations about such a serious thing, but that is demonstrably incorrect.

As for my arrangements, they typically have proceeded with lengthy introduction conversations by text, covering all aspects of expectations, limits, and desires. Often, a potential sub will ask to fill out the BDSM spreadsheet (over 300 lines). I send the spreadsheet with my answers and ask her to fill it out with her answers. It is a great way to learn about each other. It also provides explicit documentation with a 1 to 10 rating of each act that she wants. Then, I often describe potential scenes, carefully weaving in the desires that she expressed in the previous conversations and spreadsheet. I ask her about her opinion of the scene. Once we are settled, we do the scene. In the majority of cases, we consent to a high quality audio recording. In some cases, we consent to video. In any case, the sub gets the audio and video for reviewing pleasure! I don't find the planning to be onerous or unsexy. Rather, it is fun and makes the experience much better. If I were have to get consent before every single act, then I am not sure how sexy that would be. I have never tried it, although I have had subs tell me that they explicitly do NOT want to be asked about every little thing. (Some even do not like so many questions beforehand - they want to be surprised).

I started this thread pointing out a reference to BDSM and legal liability in popular press and associating that piece of news with new developments in sex law. Finally, I asked how you have prepared for the new legal landscape. I heard a few ideas. My ideas are in the above paragraph.
 
hooterbif said:
Affirmative consent and the #metoo movement have effectively changed the standard of proof in law from "innocent until proven guilty" into "the accuser must be believed before the fact trier hears evidence." This tilts the balance in a "he said/she said" case. [...] I started this thread pointing out a reference to BDSM and legal liability in popular press and associating that piece of news with new developments in sex law. Finally, I asked how you have prepared for the new legal landscape. I heard a few ideas. My ideas are in the above paragraph.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about?!
There was a slew of widely-reported articles from the UK earlier this year of many men being falsely accused of rape and having their lives wrecked by the CPS (public prosecutors) who displayed such a stunning level of investigative "incompetence" that it genuinely borders on exactly the system you're claiming we're transitioning into: one where the police actively attempt to prosecute innocent men for crimes they didn't commit, and it was a national scandal that ultimately led to the head of the CPS quitting and the reviewing of all previous prosecutions on rape charges!
Example 1, Example 2, Example 3, Example 4, Example 5, Example 6, etc etc.

Even outside the UK and over in the USA people eventually caught on to the weaponization of social media and metoo by malicious and conniving women looking to hurt their exes or move up a few tax brackets, with personalities like Bill Maher openly referring to it as 'MeCarthyism'.

The new legal landscape as you put it, has become the exact polar opposite of what you claim it to be. You're just a paranoid conspiracy theorist with a victim complex. I would wager that if you were falsely accused of abusing one of your partners then, right now, your chances of being wrongly imprisoned are lower than they've ever been.
 
What I can't understand, OP, is what's your angle in this?
What are you trying to achieve? If things are handled bad now - how should they?

Imagine a woman coming to police and saying "We had sex with a boyfriend and in the middle of it he started slapping my face. I tried to stop him but he kept going, and I want to file an abuse."
And police says "Nope! You had consented before sex, so it was all right!"
 
Want me to tell you about the trial where I testified against the man that molested me and how awesome it was to watch him walk out of the courtroom a free man after my boyfriend was called to testify and had to answer under oath that we were sexually active and somehow that changed everything and high school me was just a slut who obviously wanted it?
I know lots of women. I don’t know 1 that has lied about it.
I don’t know more than 3 that haven’t experienced it.

I hate the mentality you are expressing here and I’m just sleep deprived enough to say it out loud
#metoo
#fuckyou
 
LostGirlTink said:
Want me to tell you about the trial where I testified against the man that molested me and how awesome it was to watch him walk out of the courtroom a free man after my boyfriend was called to testify and had to answer under oath that we were sexually active and somehow that changed everything and high school me was just a slut who obviously wanted it?
I know lots of women. I don’t know 1 that has lied about it.
I don’t know more than 3 that haven’t experienced it.

I hate the mentality you are expressing here and I’m just sleep deprived enough to say it out loud
#metoo
#fuckyou
Click to expand...

:heart:
 
The duke lacrosse team may have a few opinions to share.
 
LostGirlTink said:
Want me to tell you about the trial where I testified against the man that molested me and how awesome it was to watch him walk out of the courtroom a free man after my boyfriend was called to testify and had to answer under oath that we were sexually active and somehow that changed everything and high school me was just a slut who obviously wanted it?
I know lots of women. I don’t know 1 that has lied about it.
I don’t know more than 3 that haven’t experienced it.

I hate the mentality you are expressing here and I’m just sleep deprived enough to say it out loud
#metoo
#fuckyou
Click to expand...

:heart: :rose:

THIS!
 
TJX said:
The duke lacrosse team may have a few opinions to share.
Click to expand...

I'd actually be very interested in speaking with the duke lacrosse team.
I believe you might possibly be misremembering a lot of facts from this decade old case.
There never was a trial. The victim still believes she was assaulted.
The drama came over the overzealousness of the prosecutor and the failure of the school to protect all the students involved and keep their names out of the media until such a time that a case was ready to be moved forward with.

There is a great deal of evidence that something fairly awful happened that night.
Even in their settlements that was never refuted.

So, yeah. I'd actually like to hear what they have to say for themselves.
 
Last edited:
hooterbif said:
Many people contributed to the advancement of that law. There is not one "single" intent for the law. Another intent is to provide more leverage in false allegations of rape/abuse.
Click to expand...

Says who? What's the source that someone responsible for writing/voting for this law intended this?
 
It's really not that hard.

1. Don't rape people, or otherwise abuse them against their will.

2. If you're not sure whether an act would count as "welcome CNC play" or "rape/abuse", don't fucking do it.

3. "Talking about our boundaries would ruin the mood" does not grant an exception to #2. If somebody's sexual kinks make it impossible for them to adequately communicate consent, well, that is very sad for them and it's on them to figure out a solution that doesn't require anybody taking a chance on accidentally raping somebody.

4. If you, as a guy, are seriously concerned that you might be the subject of a false rape accusation, then you probably need to rethink your dating strategies instead of whining about laws that exist to protect people (mostly but not exclusively women) against a major and real problem.

5. If you don't have the skills to figure out what your partner, maybe spend less time worrying about a fake rape accusation ruining your life, and more about a little thing called "disappointing your partner in bed".
 
In my admittedly relatively limited experience of relationships that involve power/control as a sexual dynamic, these have been the most clearly and explicitly consensual acts I've ever engaged in, precisely because we've talked about every single thing we do, and because during sex, both of us are extremely vigilant for signs that the other is no longer comfortable with (i.e. no longer consenting to) whatever is happening. Some things we work out in the moment, and talk about later, but they're usually extensions of things we've already done. My in-charge guy is extremely clear, for example, that slapping me across the face is an absolute no. That might change, but if it does, it'll change because we've talked about it.

I would say that the bdsm community is probably the last group that needs to worry about the implications of the apparently recent recognition of the need for active consent because, at least according to my understandings, active and ongoingly negotiated consent is central to its practices. What 'active' and 'ongoingly negotiated' looks like might vary within individual relationships, but it's always a thing ... if it isn't, then I'm sorry, but it's not a 'bdsm relationship'. It's abuse.

As most people who comment on any of this stuff say, if you're not sure whether what you're doing has been consented to or not, that's not a moment to whinge about how hard life is for you ... it's an indication that you need to maybe re-examine how you approach sexual relations.
 
Deep breath: fuck it I'm going to wade into this

BDSM without trust can't exist. It is entirely built on trust and communication.

To me, it's what makes this all a game(I know everybody agrees). To take the control away from someone BDSM requires, I can only do that with someone I completely trust (and who completely trusts me). She has to be an amazingly strong woman who has thought through the idea of giving up control and explicitly decided yes.

Anything less than that, yes you are taking advantage of someone at best, abusing them at worst. I know what I would want to do to someone who abused a family member or someone I care about and tried to justify it under kink. If it's kink, you're going it wrong to the point of abuse.

Not every accusation is a conviction (we have courts for that), but every accusation comes from something that happened. I fucking love the strong woman who aren't going to take shit anymore. Those are the types of woman I'd be proud to discuss kink with.
 
hooterbif said:
Affirmative consent and the #metoo movement have effectively changed the standard of proof in law from "innocent until proven guilty" into "the accuser must be believed before the fact trier hears evidence." This tilts the balance in a "he said/she said" case.

That means that some of the old practices that many of you advocate, like just have lots of long chats about BDSM, is out the window. Oh, you might get away with that for a while, but a false allegation plus the new standards are a toxic combination. You might think that nobody ever makes false allegations about such a serious thing, but that is demonstrably incorrect.

As for my arrangements, they typically have proceeded with lengthy introduction conversations by text, covering all aspects of expectations, limits, and desires. Often, a potential sub will ask to fill out the BDSM spreadsheet (over 300 lines). I send the spreadsheet with my answers and ask her to fill it out with her answers. It is a great way to learn about each other. It also provides explicit documentation with a 1 to 10 rating of each act that she wants. Then, I often describe potential scenes, carefully weaving in the desires that she expressed in the previous conversations and spreadsheet. I ask her about her opinion of the scene. Once we are settled, we do the scene. In the majority of cases, we consent to a high quality audio recording. In some cases, we consent to video. In any case, the sub gets the audio and video for reviewing pleasure! I don't find the planning to be onerous or unsexy. Rather, it is fun and makes the experience much better. If I were have to get consent before every single act, then I am not sure how sexy that would be. I have never tried it, although I have had subs tell me that they explicitly do NOT want to be asked about every little thing. (Some even do not like so many questions beforehand - they want to be surprised).

I started this thread pointing out a reference to BDSM and legal liability in popular press and associating that piece of news with new developments in sex law. Finally, I asked how you have prepared for the new legal landscape. I heard a few ideas. My ideas are in the above paragraph.
Click to expand...

You sound like a serial abuser. Please don't use BDSM to hide your abuse, it makes the rest of us look bad.
 
richard_daily said:
You sound like a serial abuser. Please don't use BDSM to hide your abuse, it makes the rest of us look bad.
Click to expand...
It also makes the rest of us look bad when someone assumes shit and jumps to conclusions.:rolleyes:
Don't be that person.
 
Nezhul said:
It also makes the rest of us look bad when someone assumes shit and jumps to conclusions.:rolleyes:
Don't be that person.
Click to expand...

I'm calling it like I see it.

There are many serious serial abuser tendencies in that post. If you don't see them, feel free to engage with said poster and see how it works for you.

:rolleyes:
 
hooterbif said:
That means that some of the old practices that many of you advocate, like just have lots of long chats about BDSM, is out the window. Oh, you might get away with that for a while, but a false allegation plus the new standards are a toxic combination. You might think that nobody ever makes false allegations about such a serious thing, but that is demonstrably incorrect.
Click to expand...

False allegations of sexual assault do happen, but they're rare. Depending on which country you look at, about 2%-6% of cases of sexual violence reported to police are found or suspected to be false, which is similar to the false reporting rate for other crimes.

Also, the conviction rate on those false accusations is very low:

"...in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false."

As it notes, about 50% of false allegations come down to "teenager got pregnant, made up a story to avoid getting into trouble with her parents, parents reported it", and those stories tend to crumble very quickly. Note that not one of those 216 false complaints resulted in a conviction.

In other words: if you're not worried about being falsely accused of burglary, embezzlement, arson, or any of the other felonies for which people occasionally make false reports, then it seems weirdly specific to worry about being falsely accused of sexual assault. Why so much focus on this crime in particular?
 
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