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Old 10-16-2015, 12:06 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Eilan View Post
Maybe God is just telling all y'all old and/or unhealthy men that it's time for you to stop having sex. Who are you to question the will of God?
hahahaha.. we have a cardiologist who actually tells that to people!!!
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Old 10-16-2015, 12:35 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Eilan View Post
Maybe God is just telling all y'all old and/or unhealthy men that it's time for you to stop having sex. Who are you to question the will of God?
*perplexed as to where exactly that one is coming from*
Thing is, Eilan, when a guy has got to be such a stonkin' good lover that his woman keeps wanting him over and over ...
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hahahaha.. we have a cardiologist who actually tells that to people!!!
When I took my herbals along to my doctor for comment she had other things to say ...

*you know that feeling you get when women gang up against you*
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Old 10-16-2015, 04:18 PM   #78
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*perplexed as to where exactly that one is coming from*
Thing is, Eilan, when a guy has got to be such a stonkin' good lover that his woman keeps wanting him over and over ...

When I took my herbals along to my doctor for comment she had other things to say ...

*you know that feeling you get when women gang up against you*
nobody is ganging up on you, Simon. I was just chuckling about a joke somebody else made.
the reality is.. the issue impacts both men and women. There are women out there who are relieved that their sex lives evolve to include less penetration and more intimacy. It's well documented.. it doesn't make either side right or wrong. It's just another side of a complex picture.
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Old 10-16-2015, 05:14 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by NippleMuncher View Post
You not only supported my post, you completely missed the point of it.

1 - You are correct, you shouldn't put ANYTHING into your body, whether by prescription or by voodoo joojoo that you do not understand.
2 - The article is blaming an herbal supplement - something that is undefined within the article and NOT the cocaine, something to have known deleterious effects on the user.
3 - The populace has been duped by big pharm that only the lab concoctions they create in a lab, and can thereby profit from, and that anything clean and natural can't possibly be safe.

example: Taking vitamin supplements is a waste of money your body doesn't need or absorb them . . . Then why are all processed food products fortified with the very vitamins that we're being told we don't need?

Should someone just run down to the health food store and start buying supplements? Absolutely not! They need to understand what their body needs, how it is best assimilated, and the best sources for those nutrients, be it from a vitamin pill or eating properly prepared foods.
Then we are in agreement, I think. Knowledge is key! I just wanted to alert my Lit friends to the fact that some (not all) herbal sexual enhancement products are intentionally contaminated with synthetic drugs that might also be harmful.
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:30 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by GiggLeGasm View Post
nobody is ganging up on you, Simon. I was just chuckling about a joke somebody else made.
the reality is.. the issue impacts both men and women. There are women out there who are relieved that their sex lives evolve to include less penetration and more intimacy. It's well documented.. it doesn't make either side right or wrong. It's just another side of a complex picture.
I get you. And I appreciate your posts, GG. I guess part of my motivation in starting this thread was hearing the longings of several women on Lit that their men DO something about a diminishing erectile function, and my perception that some men might appreciate an objective theme around which to talk about it.
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Old 10-17-2015, 03:49 AM   #81
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The problem with "herbs" and the like from a pharmacology perspective is, that they are badly defined with respect to the active constituents.

You don't know what you get that works, the concentration of it, and worse, you don't know what else you will get.
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:08 AM   #82
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The girls at the brothel in which Lamar Odom was found unconscious told 911 that they had watched him take about 10 herbal supplements. He reportedly spent $75k there over two days. But there is a lesson there -- and not just about taking care of your herbal supplement intake.
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:24 AM   #83
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For the price of one so called 'Viagra' in a sex shop here in China I was able to buy a box of 10 that work just as well. Each one comes in a little plastic sphere that you split in two - like a kinder surprise lol and each one has it's own little box.

It's herbal, lasts about 2 days, and is really terrific, with no headaches like some I have tried.
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:44 AM   #84
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:49 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Gianbattista View Post
I'd just like to add that some of the things that are freely available in shops, and are in fact very good for some, can be very strongly inadvisable for others. Some of the things I have read that some here are taking are inadvisable for some less young people with some 'now seen as normal' middle aged or older people conditions or regular medicines taken for them. Ginseng for example. research things thoroughly before taking them, cross referencing with your own medical situations, including things like blood pressure and so on. Just because its a great supplement for someone, doesn't mean its the ideal one for someone else, with a different set of risk factors. Or....just because it works for you...doesn't mean its safe.
I'd agree with that too. I worry particularly if the instructions and ingredients page are in Chinese, what am I getting? I have read up on Chinese 'viagra' and most have additional benefits, mainly for kidneys. WTF live dangerously; if they don't kill you they make you strong lol.

What extra benefits does Viagra have?
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Old 10-17-2015, 05:46 AM   #86
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Loving this thread, even if it has gotten a little off track lol.

Thank you Simon, for providing a place where guys can come (as it were ) and be open about their various plumbing and libido issues without feeling judged for it, as well as being able to share their own experiences.

Now, I'm going to start sprinkling my OH's dinner with ginger powder every night *grins*
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Old 10-17-2015, 05:52 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by thelaughingcat View Post
Loving this thread, even if it has gotten a little off track lol.

Thank you Simon, for providing a place where guys can come (as it were ) and be open about their various plumbing and libido issues without feeling judged for it, as well as being able to share their own experiences.

Now, I'm going to start sprinkling my OH's dinner with ginger powder every night *grins*
Cheers. And I love the av! xx

And thanks too to those who are setting out sensible precaution. Appreciated.

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Old 10-17-2015, 12:06 PM   #88
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The placebo effect has been mentioned earlier, and it is probably one of the major factors.
I would feel completely fine about that, if you could just be sure, that you got something that was no worse than tea or oregano.
But what plants (a lot of plants are poisonous) have been added?
Looking at the article quoted previously, and the article it is based on, is pretty scary. If you can't even trust "well renowned" companies to put the right herbs in the pills, I would not even consider touching something from a source, that had even less respect for product liability.

After all, even the "vitamin shots" Dr. morell gave Hitler, were tested to be methamphetamine.
(But I believe that they were indeed "invigorating")





But back on topic: what works for me?

No smoking, limited alcohol intake and regular physical activity.

My primary herbal remedies are Earl Grey and cocoa.
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:37 PM   #89
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I'll join you for that Earl Grey. If you come over the water to Newcastle we could drink it in a fine cafe across the pavement from his monument.

Here's my current intake:

Mid morning each day "Menenergy" by "BetterYou". It's Ginkgo, Maca, and three Ginsengs. I emailed the company to ask about having it with Tribulus Terrestris to beef its sexual health value and they were positive about that. With a daily dose regime the effects are subtle, but I think, three weeks in, that things are really well.

My intention is to reduce the herbal V I take ["Extra Strong" as mentioned above] to half a capsule when I take it, rather than the whole capsule. Reasons - the Extra Strong is a tad expensive for me, and while it's exciting to wake up three hours after I have been making love with another stonker of an erection, I could do without that!

ps that last point is one of the several reasons I rule out 'placebo effect' as regards herbal Vs. Several of them in my experience are as good as sawdust while a few of them are quite overwhelmingly effective for sixty hours in ways which go way beyond auto-suggestion or anxiety-freedom. That's my take anyway.

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Old 10-18-2015, 11:02 AM   #90
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I'll join you for that Earl Grey. If you come over the water to Newcastle we could drink it in a fine cafe across the pavement from his monument.

Here's my current intake:

Mid morning each day "Menenergy" by "BetterYou". It's Ginkgo, Maca, and three Ginsengs. I emailed the company to ask about having it with Tribulus Terrestris to beef its sexual health value and they were positive about that. With a daily dose regime the effects are subtle, but I think, three weeks in, that things are really well.

My intention is to reduce the herbal V I take ["Extra Strong" as mentioned above] to half a capsule when I take it, rather than the whole capsule. Reasons - the Extra Strong is a tad expensive for me, and while it's exciting to wake up three hours after I have been making love with another stonker of an erection, I could do without that!

ps that last point is one of the several reasons I rule out 'placebo effect' as regards herbal Vs. Several of them in my experience are as good as sawdust while a few of them are quite overwhelmingly effective for sixty hours in ways which go way beyond auto-suggestion or anxiety-freedom. That's my take anyway.
Yeah I think it's a mistake to think you can take these things and whammo it produces a sustainable hardon with no input from the erotic imagination. Unless you consciously think about sex, it won't work automatically.

And you do have to be 'in the mood' as well, otherwise it's a complete waste of time.

LOL. Just now thought of my Dad (he's 81); he believed he was 'on a promise' one night with his lady friend. She reneged on the 'promise' and he was so disappointed because he'd taken a Viagra in preparation. Poor guy!
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Old 10-18-2015, 11:13 AM   #91
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Yeah I think it's a mistake to think you can take these things and whammo it produces a sustainable hardon with no input from the erotic imagination. Unless you consciously think about sex, it won't work automatically.

And you do have to be 'in the mood' as well, otherwise it's a complete waste of time.

LOL. Just now thought of my Dad (he's 81); he believed he was 'on a promise' one night with his lady friend. She reneged on the 'promise' and he was so disappointed because he'd taken a Viagra in preparation. Poor guy!
I love it that you have a father / son thing that allows a conversation such as that!

You got me thinking: one of the reasons I so prefer a good herbal V over Viagra, is the more holistic impact of it: I mean, Viagra sorts the plumbing, but the herbal stuff I take does that and also feeds into the whole package of sexual energy, so that I have a confidence about what I'll be able to deliver with my woman, ... before the reason for the confidence becomes obvious! So it gives a double whammy to the anxiety that I used to know before I got into such enhancements.

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Old 10-18-2015, 11:20 AM   #92
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I love it that you have a father / son thing that allows a conversation such as that!

You got me thinking: one of the reasons I so prefer a good herbal V over Viagra, is the more holistic impact of it: I mean, Viagra sorts the plumbing, but the herbal stuff I take does that and also feeds into the whole package of sexual energy, so that I have a confidence about what I'll be able to deliver with my woman, ... before the reason for the confidence becomes obvious! So it gives a double whammy to the anxiety that I used to know before I got into such enhancements.
Oh yeah Simon. That's only happened in the last few years though. I have yet to hear a review from him of the Chinese Viagra I gave him to try. Gawd, I hope all that excitement doesn't kill him!
Really? I didn't know that Viagra had those other therapeutic benefits.
I believe the cost of Viagra in the west has decreased in the last few years but I still would consider it just as good as the Chinese ones available here for a fraction of the cost.
So are you saying that Viagra is not herbal?
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Old 10-18-2015, 11:39 AM   #93
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Oh yeah Simon. That's only happened in the last few years though. I have yet to hear a review from him of the Chinese Viagra I gave him to try. Gawd, I hope all that excitement doesn't kill him!
Really? I didn't know that Viagra had those other therapeutic benefits.
I believe the cost of Viagra in the west has decreased in the last few years but I still would consider it just as good as the Chinese ones available here for a fraction of the cost.
So are you saying that Viagra is not herbal?
Michael I think you read me the other way to what I mean. I'm saying that Viagra has no other therapeutic benefits beyond sorting the plumbing, whereas the combination of refined herbals such as the 'Extra Strong' that I swear by, does have those additional therapeutic benefits.

The term for a medication such as Viagra is 'synthetic'? No? Some other? I'm not expert on the terminology, I just know how my body relates to these things!
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Old 10-18-2015, 11:48 AM   #94
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Michael I think you read me the other way to what I mean. I'm saying that Viagra has no other therapeutic benefits beyond sorting the plumbing, whereas the combination of refined herbals such as the 'Extra Strong' that I swear by, does have those additional therapeutic benefits.

The term for a medication such as Viagra is 'synthetic'? No? Some other? I'm not expert on the terminology, I just know how my body relates to these things!
That's what I thought: Viagra is synthetic.

Sorry, I didn't read you close enough.

Actually, I must be in the phase of thinking I need to take these enhancements because often I have no trouble getting and keeping a good hardon. However, I enjoy using them because they double the pleasure.

Consequently, for that reason, I'd even recommend them to younger guys who don't really need them yet.
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Old 10-18-2015, 12:31 PM   #95
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?...I'm saying that Viagra has no other therapeutic benefits beyond sorting the plumbing, whereas the combination of refined herbals such as the 'Extra Strong' that I swear by, does have those additional therapeutic benefits.

The term for a medication such as Viagra is 'synthetic'? No? Some other?
And does that make the sildenafil citrate better or worse than the herbs?


A medication has a range of effects (unless it is an inert substance, in which case the placebo effect is the only one).

Some of the effects are what the user wants, the rest are labelled "side effects" and are unwanted.
If you take a chemically pure substance, you know what dose you get, and what you get.

If you take a "herbal" substance you may get a mixture of things, and even if it is only one type of herb, the concentration of active substances will change drastically with the seasons.
My old pharmacopoeia uses a lot of text on how to determine and test the strengths of herbal remedies, and basically it is a mess.
As for all the other beneficial effects, you really have nothing but the claims of the seller.


You can isolate the active substance in many cases, test it and then you will know what you get.


It really is funny, that when you want to market a drug, you have to perform some very elaborate and expensive testing. This includes double blind tests, that will show if there is an actuel effect apart from placebo. And once it is in use, side effects must be reported and evaluated.

If you sell herbal "medicine", you just make up a story about "ancient Swedish tradition", put whatever you like in the pills and sell them.
You may be prosecuted if you sell something that is too poisonous, but that is about it.
It is in itself a bit scary, but to me the really scary part is, that people will buy and eat the stuff!


Sorry for the off-topic rant, I think I can stop it here.
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Old 10-18-2015, 03:41 PM   #96
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... Sorry for the off-topic rant, I think I can stop it here.
Cumference, I agree! Which is why I thought it a good idea to put up a forum where people can say something about what has worked or not worked for them. I know that is nothing remotely as secure in terms of information as rigorous testing as you describe, but at least it's some narrative from users to set alongside the 'claims' made by marketing. Just one tiny step in the right direction, especially if those narratives by some such as me are set alongside all the cautions and clarifications posted by such as yourself and others.

In short, thanks for the rant!

Oh ps: I can't say whether viagra is better or worse than the herbs. All I can say is that currently the herbs I have found seem to suit me and my circumstances better than the viagra for which I have a prescription but am not using currently, and my doctor knows that.

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Old 10-18-2015, 09:34 PM   #97
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interesting read Simon.

I have been using Essential Oils for about a year. Curious if you or any of the guys have used any to help with the issues?

A book I have recommends Cassia, clary sage, clove, cypress, dill, ginger, jasmine, sandalwood among others, applied topically with a little carrier oil, such as coconut oil or almond oil.
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Old 10-18-2015, 10:22 PM   #98
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Michael I think you read me the other way to what I mean. I'm saying that Viagra has no other therapeutic benefits beyond sorting the plumbing, whereas the combination of refined herbals such as the 'Extra Strong' that I swear by, does have those additional therapeutic benefits.

The term for a medication such as Viagra is 'synthetic'? No? Some other? I'm not expert on the terminology, I just know how my body relates to these things!
we also give viagra for congestive heart failure and pulmonary hypertension. I've also read a couple of studies that discuss it as an appropriate therapy for MS and some autoimmune vascular things. It could be a very undervalued medication.. possibly because of the social stigma attached to it.

I've found that if I call a company and ask for the results of their research, they are very willing to send me lists of everything they found. If I ask them to cite the actual research, they're often unable. Many companies will gather the anecdotal information around a product and call it a study.. kind of unfair but it's the way it works. You seem to enjoy the digging as much as the herbs themselves.. you might like reading some of the research. It's pretty fascinating stuff.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:33 AM   #99
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Ive got to bookmark this and get back to read the responses. Thanks for all the inputs.
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Old 12-09-2015, 02:44 PM   #100
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A little story

Simon, I actually want to thank you for you vouching for me a little bit ago. I would not have found this thread with out it, or not any time soon.

My story spans many years but I will boil it down so as to not make it so boring.

I am 45 now but started to have issues with ED as far back as my mid to early 30's. What I eventually learned just a few years ago was that sugar and alcohol had major effects on keeping the hard on going. I could get hard but would lose it typically after switching positions or activities. Wine had the greatest effect because of the dual alcohol and sugar contained in it and forget about sex and dessert. Once we got a handle on that life got alot better and the problems were very infrequent.

Then a new twist showed up. About two years ago I started on Wellbutrion and Adderal for help with ADD. The meds helped my mood and attention and my home and work life improved beyond measure. The biggest difference was the mood enhancements and now im not "the grumpy guy" all the time as far as the kids are concerned. But with those meds came a whole new side effect. I lost my Libido almost completely and the ED came back with a vengeance. Thank God for a patient and understanding partner. She didnt take it personally and encouraged moving forward.

So I went to the doctor and found out that I have low T. The levels are around 300 and he gave me a prescription for Testim gel and Im two week into the trial. I have noticed a difference in my desire to be with my wife but not a raging bull effect but more an, ok, I can do that. I am also on Viagra for the ED and it has good results as well. But the cost is horrendous. I pay 195 for the Testim and 120 for the 6 tablets of Viagra. One month of generally stress free sex, albeit we have to plan out the times so I can take the Viagra. I will do anything for a solid, stress free sex life for my wife but there has to be a better way. I have read that quite frequently the Testim is upped to double the dose to achieve the desired results. They dont make a higher dosage, just that you have to buy twice as much.... ouch.. Also the gel can rub off on the wife and kids through normal contact and now I could have 3 women with elevated testosterone levels. Not ideal for many reasons. So Im about to go back in for a follow up and I want to have some alternatives in my arsenal.
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